These are "quality" problems, not "reliability" problems.

As long as the car is running and there is no costly problems with the drivetrain or other major components that affects reliable operation of the car, the car is considered reliable.

Hondas and toyota's have historically been like this...interiors and exteriors falling apart, but they will still go 200k+ miles before dying.

Other examples are MB, VW, Audi, etc....very high quality (few rattles, materials are high quality and last longer, etc.), but mediocre to low reliability (electrical problems, drivetrain problems, or whatever else that actually affects the operation of the car)...they still look pretty after 50k miles, while sitting at the repair shop.

 

Important distinction to make. People often combine them in their minds. For me I want both, but reliability is more important. I just don't have the time to babysit my car when it's sick

 

Ya, I see what you are getting at. All my issues with Acura are quality related. Well minus the 4 transmissions I went through in my CL-S

 

Quality and reliability should go hand in hand in a luxury car. Or a company attempting to provide luxury anyway...

I know a lot of people who own Mercedes, BMWs & Porsche's none of them are in the shop all the time like some people like to insinuate. They might have a few small problems at 1st, but once they are fixed the issues are gone...

It's very misleading saying how reliable an Acura is, but then tell me it's a rattle box POS with low quality materials/workmanship.

Might as well buy a Ford or a GM car... their drive train/transmissions are pretty bulletproof in the $28k+ segment. Plus you can get RWD and better performance. The only thing Acura has going for it is their service IMO when compared to GM/Ford today.

 

My family owns several higher-end MB's ('91 560SEL, '94 SL500, '00 S500), and all have had HORRENDOUS reliability. The materials and quality was fine, but I would put reliability of a used Civic up against these cars any day.

My family has come to believe this is the "norm" for these cars, especially since they don't "rely" on these cars for everyday transportation.

 

91? that's 16 years old!
94? that's 13 years old!

My mom has had a few SL500's over the years with no major problems. Both bought new a 1995 and a 2001. Some minor issues but all were fixed and didn't return.

Always used as a daily driver... the SL has very high reliability/quality ratings.

Do me/yourself a favor; search for "mercedes SL reliability" in google. Let me know how many articles you find that doesn't put the SL at a high or very high reliability score...

http://www.edmunds.com/mercedesbenz/...merreview.html
http://autos.yahoo.com/mercedes_benz...dster-ratings/
http://www.edmunds.com/mercedesbenz/...merreview.html
http://www.wisebuyers.co.uk/motoring...1989-02)/1079/

Again, what your going to find is MB has a few bad seeds in their line-up (example: s-class) killing their overall reliability. Not all of their cars are poor quality/reliability. They make a lot of great reliable vehicles; but not all of them are as you describe. And the few that are bad are very bad, really hurt their numbers overall. Also older MB are known to be very reliable.
..

 

Forgot to mention that the problems occured DURING the warranty period, and still re-occurred after the warranty ran out. Like I said before, I'd put the reliability of an OLDER civic up against these cars anyday.

 

For the SL specifically it sounds more like the dealer being incompetent.

What were all of the reoccuring issues?

If major reliability problems existed in the SL you'd see responses about it in the links I posted. Most are from long term owners...

I don't know of any time my mom had major reliability issues with any of her SL's. She surely has had minor things here and there, but nothing major. And nothing reoccurring.

 

Problems were:

SL500 - Ignition (electrical) problem. Car would stall for no reason (stalled on me once after I pulled onto the street from a carwash...i was able to get it to "limp" back into the carwash parking lot). This was supposedly repaired (under warranty). About a year later (now out of warranty), it did this again when my cousin was using the car. About $4000 for them to diagnose and fix the problem...was supposedly traced back to some part of the ignition (done at Star MB in Jersey somewhere). It hasn't happened again yet...today it only has 65k miles on it.

560SEL - Since DAY ONE, this car had a slow battery drain. If the car was parked for 2 weeks, the battery would be dead and would need a jump. Suffice it to say that this car was used only periodically ('91, but only has about 70k miles on it today). Warranty supposedly fixed this (different dealership, Knopf MB in Allentown, PA) and it was ok up until about 3 months out of warranty, when the battery would be DEAD after 2 days. Local foreign car repair estimated a couple thousand to diagnose and fix the problem, which they did and it was good for several years, but has started occurring again this past year. Now we just disconnect the battery when not in use rather than let it drain. Trying to sell it

S500 - This car was surprisingly shitty for a new car...dash lights randomly went out (funny how it never happens when its' at the dealers for warranty), battery drained COMPLETELY (could not jump, had to replace battery) once for no reason, COMAND system always froze. Never got any warranty work done because problems could never be duplicated.

I had a '96 civic while in high school and college...I had it parked for 6 months once, never disconnected the battery, and it started right up. My CL-S was parked for months on end with the battery still connected when I was traveling for work...again, started right up with no electrical problems or anything. only ONCE did the the navi-screen on the CL-S go blank out of the blue, but otherwise the car was still reliable and never had to worry about beign stranded or stalling. My M45S has had no warranty problems to speak of (currently had for 2 years, about 22k miles currently).

The newest MB we have is the S500 (and no one in my family is looking to get into a new one anytime soon). These problems may not be bad relative to some of the things I hear from people drivign REALLY shitty cars (old caddies, k-cars, tempo), but compared to the cars I've chosen and the price paid for them, these problems are inexcusable...

at least none of them rattled as much as my civic or cl-s.

 

your not the first person to say they are having issues with newer Benzs.
my mom's friend has a 01 or 02 E class seems like once every 2 month something fudgeing up on it. one month it was brakes, another time it was check engine light, another time something in the dash, mostly it's small issues. but for a 50-60 grand car new (which she bought it new) is Horse shit. she just bearly paid it off (like within the last year or 2) and for it to act the way it does pisses me off. hell my 94 Accord with 310,000 miles i think more solid than that thing.

 

You can say the sky is green all you want, but the fact is that it's blue. The other fact is that Honda and Acura have one of the best reliability track records (over all and over time) in the industry. You can't compare them to GM or Ford over the last 20 years and you can't compare them to MBs over the last 10. That's not an opinion, that's a fact.

 

I'm not saying the sky is green.... I'm saying average numbers don't tell the whole story.

Who cares about the last 20 years... whats happening today is what matters. A lot has changed in the past 10 years. Acura is kinda the joke of the Luxury brands now, Ford and GM have had to step up... Hyundai is unstoppable...

When you leave out major things like transmission failures and such. I agree their numbers look good. Mostly because they are good at making good numbers by hiding things... this involves hiding truths and not admitting faults. I can't argue with the numbers; they exist, they are there... and rather worthless IMO... It took Honda how long to do a "recall" on their transmissions (cough 3 years)? Oh wait they never did recall them.. They issued a TSB on the issue... I'd love to see the actual stats of how many CLs/TLs/Accord/Odyssey minivans have had their transmissions replaced before 120k. But those numbers will never be released. Again, playing back to the average numbers game. Don't admit fault, prolong the public outcome until it's not an issue anymore and there is *new* numbers to play with. I.E. a new redesign or release to focus on. And they hurdled the bad rep. from a recall.

It's also rather unfair to compare a manufacturer who makes a HUGE range of cars. And use their average over the entire range of vehicles as a comparison. A lot gets washed out in those statistics. This also goes for "initial quality" reports; they are worthless. And a lot of long term reports are also junk.

In past 3 years Hyundai/GM/Ford (mazda) all make equal or better cars than Acura in terms of quality and reliability. Sure Acura can hide in their numbers they achieve so well for a little while. But the public will figure it out sooner than later. I'm going to guess sooner than later looking at the RL sales. And with the internet coming of age to the masses public reviews consistently show Acuras as rattle box cheap plastic interiors... sounds like an old Ford & GM were talking about right?

I have a hard time finding a review site where 50% of the public doesn't have quality issues with Acura. Pretty sad since they don't make a lot of vehicles and its the (near) luxury line of Honda. And the same issues continue for YEARS. You'd think they'd have the rattle issues solved in 4 years with the TL.

So ya, I don't argue the numbers. They are there; doesn't mean they are the black and white decision maker... maybe to the few sheep who only look at them. With everyone searching for public reviews and the internet for information... Acura is going to be in trouble... they can't play the hide the numbers game any longer, a lot more information is available to the public now via public feedback.

I have my hopes up though; they can make nice stuff. And maybe they do; maybe it's just because it's made in Ohio that the problems exist. I don't know; I just know the end result is poor quality.

Also you quoted only one sentence; I would really like to hear you argue it. Tell me what Acura offers over GM and Ford at this point besides A+ service. It's obviously not quality... and it's not reliability *in the same segment of vehicles*. Don't go comparing a TL to a Chevy Cavalier. I'm curious to know what it is you think they hold so high and mighty besides service at this point...

This information might fascinate you... (note: overall quality mechanical)
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/Acura/tl/2007

Then dig in you'll see Acura TL only scores 2/5 stars on initial quality mechanical. And doesn't achieve 5 stars on anything.
http://www.jdpower.com/util/ratings/...0Premium%20Car

Then compare to Ford->Lincoln and GM->Cadillac

I agree, if you leave out the fact that GM/Ford/Hyundai haven't been on the ball these past 2 years and only focus on the past 20 years. Things don't look good. But the past is over the future is happening...

 

wow, again a lot of it sounds like your dealer is a bit incompetant.

ahah, ya solid as rock. But goes nowhere...

All of my friends and family who own them as I have said had minor issues; all were fixed. None returned... all used as daily drivers.

I wonder if MB just has problems finding qualified mechanics.

 

Honestly speaking, comparing lexus, acura, and infiniti, lexus tops it off.