oonowindoo

some people like it rough and some people like to get raped roughly.

tmux

Heh I was hoping for 0.9% but then I learned that financing requires comprehensive insurance, which adds almost 2k/yr even though I've never been in an accident that involved insurance.

Added the extra insurance to get an effective APR and scared me away from financing, though I know I'd be getting more coverage. The couple of times I considered using insurance, the costs were always under the deductible anyway, unless if I used all dealer services/parts, which would cost me the whole deductible.

oonowindoo

Regardless what the requirement for insurance is, you should ALWAYS get full coverage unless you car's value is not worth any repairs.

Insurance is just that.. insurance. You hope you never have to use it but when you need it and you don't have it... good luck paying for a car that does not exist anymore.

It could be a freak accident on the freeway with a flying tire (been there), rear end got smashed after you come out from your friend's house (Been there), got hit by an uninsured driver (Been there). Got hit by a guy who did not have enough coverage limit (been there)

Don't cheapen out on car insurance. I learned the hard way.

tmux

Risk management is tricky. The money I've saved in my years of driving already, at the ~$2k/year rate, add up to a new car.

In the scenarios you mentioned, except for the flying tire, your compensation would've been the same whether you had comprehensive or not right? Main difference being the easy of collecting, since those weren't your fault?

oonowindoo

Who are you going to collect from?

The uninsured driver or the unknown driver or the driver whose insurance will only cover up to his limit? When there is no $$ to collect then there is no $$ to collect, it does not matter whose fault it is.

It will all come back to your own insurance.

An extreme example will be you have been walking through Compton every night to save $ on bus and you have saved a lot and nothing has happened to you yet. Well keep walking and see what happens.

Have you saved up all the $2k/year for the future when things do happen? If you have, good for you. If you have not. Then your reasoning is not relevant simply because when things do happen (assume it is a total loss) you will lose $15,000 or $20,000 all at once and your saved $2k/year does not exist.

It will be even worse if you car is not paid off and you will really be paying monthly payment on a car that does not exist and you can't afford to buy a new car since you already have a car payment.

tmux

I simplified my example; I invested it, so the net difference is on average more than $2k/year. That's how insurance companies make a large chunk of their money, and not just through the premii. Berkshire Hathaway too, through its insurance holdings.

To avoid the comprehensive coverage, you can't finance or lease, so there would be no monthly payments unless perhaps if you used a generic personal loan. But good point about needing an emergency fund to buy a replacement car or just in general.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

The canyon runs and track days are insanely fun until you crash.

tmux

I think your insurance company sues the uninsured motorist eventually, so it saves you the hassle as they first pay you. But you can still go after them, and of course if they declare bankruptcy you're likely SOL. At least that's my impression of how it works.

Did your insurance premium increase after the unknown driver incident? The increase in premiums often pay for the repair and more after a certain amount of time, anecdotally. The typical $500 is pretty steep and a $0 deductible has a crippling premium.

oonowindoo

Have you gone through the experience of suing someone because they don't have enough insurance? I have.

It sounds A LOT easier than done. There is a reason why they are under insured or no insurance at all. When they don't have $$, then they dont have $$. Sue them for what? their kids? force them to go through bankruptcy will not get you one penny but ruining a family.

If you have the proper paperwork and coverage, then no, your insurance will not go up. and as far as freak accident on the freeway, as long as the object is not stationary, then you premium will not go up either.

tmux

I have not, hope I won't ever need to but I would have no qualms going for all that's legally entitled... the guy who was hit is the victim here, hypothetically!

By managing your own emergency fund, it's kind of like insuring yourself. Devil's in the details and numbers.

oonowindoo

In time, you will learn. You are still young.

majin ssj eric

I negotiated our GS350 F-Sport down to $50,300, which was about $6k lower than sticker at the time so I can safely say that if this is Lexus' position, I will no longer be purchasing their products any more. That's just ridiculous...

oonowindoo

So if they give you a no haggle fixed selling price that is lower than MSRP through all of its dealers, then what is the point of the MSRP?

If they set a no gaggle fixed selling price at MSRP..... well we know exactly what is going to happen.

PortlandRL

In my brief stint selling cars years ago, it was my experience that those who got a great deal were never happy and the ones who got ripped off were too stupid to realize it and drove home smiling only to figure out days or weeks later that they'd been wallet raped with no lube. Consumers like the belief that they can haggle down to a good deal but very few actually have the ability.

wackjum

A few points here. Firstly, in many States like Texas or Florida, you're not going to get anything from a judgment against a person. The list of exemptions and untouchable money is so high that everybody is functionally judgment proof. Remember OJ Simpson who was sued for millions and moved to Florida and continued to live his life unchanged? If OJ was judgment proof, imagine regular Joe.

Secondly, even if they did have insurance, the minimum coverage in Texas is 30/60/25. That means $30,000 per accident per person, up to a total of $60,000 per incident (what happens if there's 4 people in the car?) and $25,000 property damage per accident. Everybody drives around with minimum because that's the cheapest legal coverage. There is no incentive to pay for more coverage.

Finally, people always talk about insurance in very black and white terms. There are actually a lot of options. I only have one financed car right now, but all of my cars have liability, theft, natural disaster, and uninsured/underinsured. So that covers a lot of the things that could happen short of things that I am at fault for.

There are so many things that can happen to a car that can cause it to be here one moment and gone the next, regardless of how careful a driver you might be.

black label

A little back ground on this phrase or those similar to it.

In many cases your salesman is a mediator between the customer who wants a car and a manager who is authorized to sell it. While you may feel this question is putting you under pressure to buy (which it can be) it's more likely a way of judging how much pressure a salesman can put on a manager to move on price and get a deal today.

As a saleman trying to earn a income for yourself, you don't want to do the work for another salesman at a different dealer. If you committed to buying a car from me today if the numbers work today, I was relentless at pounding away at the manager to get you the price. Not only do you want the deal, I wanted the deal. I spent the time showing you the car and answering all your questions, I would like to be paid for the work but I won't if you don't buy the car. The manager may not like the deal, but deep down inside he wants the deal too, sales managers answer to general managers and they want to see numbers.

This is why salesmen look for a commitment to buy, they don't want to give their best absolute price only to have you call another dealer tomorrow who'll cut my legs off at the knees by giving you another $200 off to "steal the deal".

The biggest weapon a salesman has to negotiate the deal with the sales manager is the ability to say, "you get them this price, they will buy it right now. Or should we let them try their luck with Acura of -----?" The issue is many salesmen lack the tact to propose this question to the customer in a friendly way.

I still use this tactic today as a customer buying used cars or when friends ask to to help them buy a car, my first question is, "do you have the money and if it's a nice car are you ready to buy it now?" Cash in hand (or the willingness to sign contracts) is a powerful motivator for sellers to sell. It's much easier to turn down, "would you take $5000 for it?" than it is to turn down, "I'll give you $5000 cash for it right now, done deal, you take the money, I take the car away."

The best advice to a customer is to not be confrontational right off the the bat. Salesmen would much rather deal with a friendly nice person than someone who treats them like an asshole. You don't need to just accept any deal they offer, but not being a dick goes a long way to smooth successful negotiations for both sides. If they like you they will be more likely to squeeze their profits to have a nice customer vs an asshat.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

I've tried being a nice person to salesmen several times before... 100% they tried to rip off.

Now it's so much easier just dealing with the internet sales managers.

Rick_TL-S

Dealing with the right folks can help a lot, too. We have 1 person who will go out of his way to give a better deal than most others will if it means adding another sale to his overall total & remaining in the Top 15 in the US. /shrug

tmux

Most likely, there will still be regional price differences just like other products sold locally. The dealer just can't haggle, but probably could contribute to the pricing decision. MSRP is just a reference point.

tmux

lol, that leaves just about no happy customers from that place after a month?

tmux

Very insightful, thanks! That question isn't nearly one of the worst canned questions but my main beef is the canned nature of the question. It flips the interaction away from a natural conversation, such as one you would have at the grocery or department store, to an interaction in which you know you're being steered by a script. Heck, feel free to ask me straight up if I'm looking to buy or just to compare different models for the day.

From my end, of course I would buy the car if I get a good price (and if I'm decided on the model)... but I understand that sometimes people aren't ready yet for whichever reason. Personally, I wait till I'm ready before shopping because otherwise it would be a waste of time on my part and probably frustrating if there is a good deal.

However, don't think of the competitor chopping $200 off as stealing the sale; they are buying a sale for $200, if your price is fair If they keep doing that at their own expense, then they will run themselves out of business.

It would be interesting to see how sales guys like this change. I would enjoy it if I were in sales; get to talk up the car vs other brands and spend 0 time haggling. Even when striking a good deal (on either side), haggling can be stressful!

tmux

Probably just a bad sales guy in general but a sample exchange that can be avoided, and, from Acura/Lexus/mfg POV, one less unhappy customer due to pricing:

Yelp review

TL;DR: Schizophrenic dealer agrees to beat another's price, then changes his mind, then digs at customer for reconsidering him for accessories, trying to entice the customer with ambiguous discounts. Similar theme in some other reviews of the same place.

Rapture

I feel like putting that in my sig. No context or anything.

oonowindoo

why? are you one of those people?

CAgine

Doesn't surprise me, Toyota already experimented with the pure pricing on their scion cars...

A scion dealer can't take off anything more than what Toyota listed...Lol...so lame.

I tried getting a XB couple months ago, and no dealer 50 miles around LA was willingly to go $50 below on the pure price....the most one dealer did was take off 10...GJ toyota, I went straight to Hyundai and got an elantra instead.

Flipster23

iTrader: (15)

XB to Elantra.

am I missing something?

You wanted a Scion XB but ended up with an Elantra.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

clpassenubye

iTrader: (20)

I no longer deal with dealerships in regards to the buying/leasing I deal with an auto broker that deals with the fleet managers of the dealerships this way I cut out all the dealership games and get a great deal on the car.

Flipster23

iTrader: (15)

Call Shoofin.

tmux

That's the game; there will be others who go the other way, get tired of negotiating and go straight to the flat pricing.

Actual pricing will be the key.