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I have driven Acura's and Honda's close to one million miles and IMO think they are the most reliable of any vehicle. Amazing/lucky that I have only had some minor issues. The J D Power survey results attached below addresses initial quality concerns and I am wondering if this concerns Acura. The 2014 results really surprised me (25th) because Acura had always been in the top 6. Interesting if someone from Acura would respond. In 2013, Acura was 6th, 2012 6th, 2011 3rd and 2010 2nd. This is in Initial quality not reliability where Acura still ranks strong. Reliability, the figures shows the opposite that reliability is getting better. In 2014 Acura ranked 4th in reliability, 2013 8th, 2012 11th, 2011 12th and 2010 10th. Interesting to get your feedback on your experience with initial quality.
other than RLX SHAWD and the NSX because of the complicated hybrid drivetrain.. i don't see any real reliability issues with all the other car since everything has been tested for the past 20 years.
I know that quite a few of the low initial quality scores are from older and/or less tech savvy owners who have trouble using and understanding the new infotainment systems. Such was the case when Ford and Lincoln got hurt with their glitchy and supposedly hard to use MyFord Touch and MyLincoln Touch / SYNC systems.
That's probably part of the reason why Ford's dropping Microsoft and moving to Blackberry's QNX in 2016
Well, better not move this to the RL forum, given the number of RLs sold.
And do you really want to expose OP to the 3G TL or 2G TL forums?
Better to leave it here.
LOL, yeah. I would only move it if he was targeting a specific group of owners (similar to someone recently who posted about quality slipping, but it was specific to the RDX)...
imho initial quality really does not translate into long term reliability
No but if the initial ownership experience sucks, they probably won't own the car long enough to worry about reliability at 80k miles. I know I wouldn't/won't.
New-Vehicle Initial Quality is Best Ever, J.D. Power Finds
Kia Ranks Highest among Brands for Second Consecutive Year
COSTA MESA, Calif.: 21 June 2017 — New-vehicle quality is at its highest level ever, improving a significant 8% from last year, according to the J.D. Power 2017 U.S. Initial Quality Study,SM (IQS) released today.
Initial quality in this iconic study is measured by the number of problems experienced per 100 vehicles (PP100) during the first 90 days of ownership, with a lower score reflecting higher quality. In this year’s study, quality improves across seven of the eight categories measured, with 27 of the 33 brands in the study improving their quality compared with 2016.
“Automotive manufacturers are responding to consumer feedback and producing vehicles of the highest quality,” said Dave Sargent, vice president, global automotive at J.D. Power. “The industry has improved significantly in each of the past three years. Today’s vehicles have more things that could go wrong but fewer things that actually do go wrong.”
Following are some of the study’s key findings:
Technology improving but still problematic: Audio/communication/entertainment/navigation (ACEN) remains the area where new-vehicle owners experience the most problems. However, this category shows the most improvement since 2016 with a score of 22.8 PP100, or 2.7 PP100 better than last year.
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Early warning bells for autonomous technology: The only category to worsen this year is features, controls and displays. The largest increases in problems are for cruise control (primarily adaptive cruise); lane departure warning; collision avoidance/alert systems; and blind spot warning. These features comprise some of the building blocks of autonomous vehicles, and an increasing number of consumer-reported problems sounds warning bells for automakers and suppliers. Consumers will need to be convinced that these systems are foolproof before they will give up driving control to autonomous vehicles.
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Domestic brands continue to show improvement: The “Detroit Three” outperform import brands for the second year in a row but for only the third time since the study was first published in 1987. In 2017, domestic brands receive a score of 93 PP100 compared with 99 PP100 for import brands. Last year, domestic brands also had fewer problems (103 PP100) compared with import brands (106 PP100).
“The Initial Quality Study continues to demonstrate the critical importance of automakers responding to consumer feedback regarding vehicle quality,” Sargent said. “Any automaker that stands still will quickly start to fall behind. For consumers, the great news is that significant improvements are occurring in all model segments, meaning that you don’t have to spend a lot of money to get a quality vehicle.”
Highest-Ranked Brands
Kia ranks highest in overall initial quality for a second consecutive year with a score of 72 PP100.
Genesis (77 PP100) ranks second overall followed by Porsche (78 PP100). Ford and Ram (86 PP100) tie for fourth.
MINI is the most improved brand, with owners reporting 33 PP100 fewer problems than in 2016. Other brands with strong improvement include Ram (28 PP100 improvement), Acura (19), Volvo (18) and Ford (16).
Segment-Leading Models
The parent company receiving the most model-level awards for its various brands is Hyundai Motor Co. (five model-level awards), followed by General Motorsand BMW, each with four.
Hyundai Motor Co. models that rank highest in their respective segments are the Kia Cadenza; Kia Forte; Kia Niro; Kia Sorento; and Kia Soul.
General Motors models that rank highest in their segments are the Chevrolet Silverado; Chevrolet Silverado HD; Chevrolet Sonic; and GMC Terrain.
BMW models that rank highest in their segments are the BMW 2 Series; BMW 4 Series; BMW X6; and MINI Cooper.
Other models that rank highest in their respective segments are the Chrysler Pacifica; Ford Expedition; Ford Mustang; Infiniti QX80; Lexus GS; Mercedes-Benz GLA; Nissan Frontier; Porsche 911; Porsche Macan; and Toyota Camry.
The U.S. Initial Quality Study is based on responses from nearly 80,000 purchasers and lessees of new 2017 model-year vehicles who were surveyed after 90 days of ownership. The study is based on a 233-question battery organized into eight problem categories designed to provide manufacturers with information to facilitate the identification of problems and drive product improvement. The study was fielded from February through May 2017.
No but if the initial ownership experience sucks, they probably won't own the car long enough to worry about reliability at 80k miles. I know I wouldn't/won't.
unfortunately people often blow stuff out of proportion...Personally I do not consider it an issue to have to bring a car in for minor warranty work as it is a man made machine and it is not perfect. the expectation is how does the brand handle the situation. Both Acura and Subaru have been outstanding in this area. The Acura overall was not as reliable as I would have liked but the service is what I remember the most. Same for the Subaru cars that I own... service is top rate.
my latest addition, a 2014 Subaru Legacy has been to the dealer for 3 issues and 1 of them was user error.... The first time was for the lease owner unable to pair her phone to the car... that was it for the 2.5 years she leased it. Dealer paired the phone for her. The car was literally just turned in on it's lease when I bought it...I brought it in for a blown 12V power outlet fuse and the hood being loose, both fixed when I got it in for an oil change.
So how would some people rate that? Some would go off the deep end and complain even though the car was promptly fixed others, like myself wouldn't even think twice about it since the issue was handled in a professional way and has ZERO impact on my ability to use the car since there was another plug The car as given the two of us that owned it over 36K of trouble free miles (aka no MAJOR issues) to use the car since there was another plug The car as given the two of us that owned it over 36K of trouble free miles (aka no MAJOR issues). Would I buy another Subaru? You bet I would
Last edited by YeuEmMaiMai; 06-21-2017 at 07:36 PM.
They need to do a reliability after 60-100k. These things are meaningless at times. Porsche owners don't normally put a lot of miles on them to have a ton of issues. I'm sort of surprised that Mazda is so low.
Unfortunately there's no way to distill all of the data down while making it meaningful for everyone.
Some buy new vehicles with the intent of keeping them for several years, extrapolating from the limited reliability info to determine if a new car will hold up in the long term.
Other people are in a new vehicle every two or three years, constantly leasing.
There are those who are driven crazy by the smallest of faults, and others still who don't even notice a problem even when someone else mentions it.
An oddly specific but minor and common problem that manifests itself in many vehicles like a vibration at a certain speed or during certain conditions will make a manufacturer look worse than another make with say, a catastrophic transmission failure requiring a complete replacement affecting only a small number of vehicles. But it's obvious which one is worse.
This is just one resource that a consumer can use, but shouldn't be the only one. CR itself had a bad reputation at times
The big issue with these lists is what constitutes a "problem". There's no weighted rankings and a software update to the stereo is treated as the same problem as a catastrophic engine failure. That said, if Honda issues a software update to the infotainment and everyone goes in to get it installed, all of those visits count as "problems" and their reliability score goes to poop. Likewise if half of all Audis sold have their engines explode, the brand as a whole looks to be just fine.
The big issue with these lists is what constitutes a "problem". There's no weighted rankings and a software update to the stereo is treated as the same problem as a catastrophic engine failure. That said, if Honda issues a software update to the infotainment and everyone goes in to get it installed, all of those visits count as "problems" and their reliability score goes to poop. Likewise if half of all Audis sold have their engines explode, the brand as a whole looks to be just fine.
100 Hondas sold in 2017, all of them need a software update for the stereo, 100 problems reported, 0% reliability
100 Audis sold in 2017, 50 of them need new engines, 50 problems reported, 50% reliability.
If you only present the last number in both of those data sets, one would assume that Hondas have shit reliability and Audi is mediocre to pretty good but that assumption would be wrong no?
^ Nevermind, I'm an idiot. I get what you're staying as far as the stats... but I thought you said 1/2 of Audis needed engine replacements. I was like, wait, what? No they don't.
I missed the word if at the beginning of that statement
I was gonna be like "Shit yall, when my car blows up we're gonna have a pig roast and everyone's invited."
It says a lot though that Lexus, a stalwart in reliability in almost every metric, shows up so low here after multiple years near the top. Even in a redesign year, most of the things that make a Lexus a Lexus are similar to the previous gen. I have to believe their infotainment system is the culprit.
IMO it is more about the new owners lack of knowing how to properly use the infotainment system is what is bringing a lot of these ratings down for all brands across the board. I am not talking about if a system blacks out, or freezes etc..
What I mean is when people get annoyed because they have to go through two or three sub menus to get to the heated seat control or don't like a particular "mouse controller" and then complain about it in a survey.. IMO it's not fair and complaints like these should not be counted in these surveys. After all, it's not the vehicles fault that the owner didn't do his or her due diligence before buying the vehicle or in a lot of cases hasn't even read the owners manual yet...
IMO it is more about the new owners lack of knowing how to properly use the infotainment system is what is bringing a lot of these ratings down for all brands across the board. I am not talking about if a system blacks out, or freezes etc..
What I mean is when people get annoyed because they have to go through two or three sub menus to get to the heated seat control or don't like a particular "mouse controller" and then complain about it in a survey.. IMO it's not fair and complaints like these should not be counted in these surveys. After all, it's not the vehicles fault that the owner didn't do his or her due diligence before buying the vehicle or in a lot of cases hasn't even read the owners manual yet...
That's a good point, too. That being said, the consumer may benefit from the separation of "initial quality" and "initial usability"
That's a good point, too. That being said, the consumer may benefit from the separation of "initial quality" and "initial usability"
You may have something there because most, if not all of us in this thread understand the difference between the two, but I really feel the average non car person does not.
I remember one time while at Lexus for service, a woman was bitching because she felt the mouse controller in her RX was moving the curser too fast. So the SA explained that in the manual it explains how to adjust the speed but went out to the RX and adjusted it for her anyway. And this still wasn't good enough for her as she continued to complain that she wasted her day to bring it in, and that it should come from the factory on the slowest setting.. Once again, is it the service advisor or Lexus' fault that she didn't read the manual.
^ It's a constant battle between engineers to create more idiot proof solutions and the world to create bigger idiots. Unfortunately the world is winning.
^ It's a constant battle between engineers to create more idiot proof solutions and the world to create bigger idiots. Unfortunately the world is winning.
I don't know if that's a fair assessment. A bad user experience is a bad user experience. When I was looking to replace my TSX, I tried an IS200t. It was a bad user experience. The mouse thing is kind of bad.
I don't know if that's a fair assessment. A bad user experience is a bad user experience. When I was looking to replace my TSX, I tried an IS200t. It was a bad user experience. The mouse thing is kind of bad.
But think of it this way.. A bad experience is just that, a bad experience it doesn't mean the mouse controller wasn't working properly it's just not what you expected. So does this mean that since it's not what you expected you should report this as a problem on the JD Power survey? IMO this is what I feel a lot of people do, tie a bad user experience into the initial quality.
BTW - not saying you would do this, just using you as an example.
But think of it this way.. A bad experience is just that, a bad experience it doesn't mean the mouse controller wasn't working properly it's just not what you expected. So does this mean that since it's not what you expected you should report this as a problem on the JD Power survey? IMO this is what I feel a lot of people do, tie a bad user experience into the initial quality.
BTW - not saying you would do this, just using you as an example.
Possibly. I'm in the software quality business and I can tell you that something that isn't usable is slippery slope whether or not it's on par with something that is broken. On the face of it? No, something that has poor usability isn't broken, but if the way it works is terrible, the manufacturer deserves to be dinged for it. The problem is no usability issue for the entertainment system and nav and all that crap does not compare to engine problems.
Good points, I guess we could keep going in circles on this because you're definitely correct in that if the way it works is terrible, the manufacturer deserves to be dinged for it. But I don't think it should be on an initial quality survey
I don't know if that's a fair assessment. A bad user experience is a bad user experience. When I was looking to replace my TSX, I tried an IS200t. It was a bad user experience. The mouse thing is kind of bad.
I largely agree but changing a setting to suit the user's specific desires or wants is not really a bad user experience as it can be fixed with relative ease. A bad user experience would be that the car died on a test drive or that it was flat out too small or that the seating position wasn't ideal after adjustments.
Originally Posted by kurtatx
Possibly. I'm in the software quality business and I can tell you that something that isn't usable is slippery slope whether or not it's on par with something that is broken. On the face of it? No, something that has poor usability isn't broken, but if the way it works is terrible, the manufacturer deserves to be dinged for it. The problem is no usability issue for the entertainment system and nav and all that crap does not compare to engine problems.
Right but the case presented above is like saying I hate windows because the stock wallpaper isn't what I wanted. It's a setting that can be changed to fix the issue to a user's specific needs. I get that it's a slippery slope but again, there are a lot of idiots out there.
Edit: I should also add that there are a lot of ignorant people out there too.
so those multiple trophies dont mean jack chit!?!?
aww man, and I thought those Chevy commericals with "REAL" people was real too.
lol. I'll give Chevy credit, though. If it weren't for the FWD, the Impala would be pretty awesome. You put that dopey bowtie on it and it looks poor quality, but the interior of the top of the line Impala is really nice for just over $30,000. That being said, I HATE those Chevy commercials.
I do like the top trim Impala, especially with the new body style.
but, almost like honda/acura, they price it way out of reach...or it's not a value play any more at those prices.
New-Vehicle Quality Stalls After Four Years of Improvement, J.D. Power Finds
Genesis, Kia and Hyundai Are Three Highest-Ranked Brands for Second Straight Year
COSTA MESA, Calif.: 19 June 2019 — New-vehicle quality in 2019 stays flat compared with 2018, marking the first year without improvement since 2014, according to the J.D. Power 2019 Initial Quality Study (IQS),SM released today. More brands worsened than improved over the past 12 months.
“Automakers continue to make progress in areas like infotainment that attract a lot of consumer attention,” said Dave Sargent, Vice President of Global Automotive at J.D. Power. “However, some traditional problems crept up this year including paint imperfections, brake and suspension noises, engines not starting and the ‘check engine’ light coming on early in the ownership experience. Also, more people are having issues with their advanced driver assistance systems, which are critical for building consumer trust in future automated vehicles.”
Initial quality is measured by the number of problems experienced per 100 vehicles (PP100) during the first 90 days of ownership, with a lower score reflecting higher quality. In this year’s study, only 13 brands improved, while 18 worsened. The industry average remained unchanged at 93 PP100.
Following are key findings of the 2019 study:
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Gap between Korean brands and others continues to widen: The three highest-ranking brands—Genesis, Kia and Hyundai—are all from Korean manufacturer Hyundai Motor Group, and the gap between these three brands and all others has widened considerably. Remarkably, 16 of 18 models from Hyundai Motor Group rank in the top three in their respective segments. These vehicles tend to perform especially well in the areas of infotainment and other electronic components.
Domestic brands above average: Ford (83 PP100), Lincoln (84 PP100), Chevrolet (85 PP100), Dodge (90 PP100) and Buick (92 PP100) all perform better than the industry average of 93 PP100. Overall, Domestic-branded vehicles perform close to the average in most areas.
All European brands are below average: In contrast to the success of the Korean automakers and the leading domestic and Japanese brands, all 10 European marques are below average. The largest gaps for the European vehicles are infotainment and other electronics.
Porsche 911 again achieves the best score of any model: The Porsche 911, with just 58 PP100, has the best score of any model for the second consecutive year.
Infotainment problems are decreasing: Infotainment remains the most problematic category for new-vehicle owners. However, this area is the most improved from 2018, led by fewer problems for voice recognition and Bluetooth.
Problems with driver assistance systems are increasing: As advanced driver assistance systems become more widespread and increasingly complex, more owners are indicating problems. The average for premium brands is 6.1 PP100, up from 5.0 last year, while the average for mass market brands is 3.5 PP100.
New and redesigned vehicles still trail carryover vehicles: Vehicles that were launched in 2019 have an average problem level of 103 PP100, which equals the best score ever. However, this is still well below the score for carryover models, which have an average problem level of 91 PP100.
Highest-Ranking Brands and Models
Genesis ranks highest in overall initial quality with a score of just 63 PP100. Kia (70 PP100) places second and Hyundai (71 PP100) ranks third. This is the second year in a row that the three Korean brands are at the top of the overall ranking, and it is the fifth consecutive year that Kia is the highest-ranked mass market brand. Ford (83 PP100) ranks fourth and Lincoln (84 PP100) ranks fifth, marking the first time both Ford Motor Company brands place in the top five in the same year.
Land Rover is the most-improved brand, with owners reporting 37 PP100 fewer problems than in 2018. Other brands with strong improvements include Jaguar (18 PP100 improvement), and Dodge and Volvo (each with 8 PP100 improvement). This is the highest Dodge has ever ranked in the study.
The parent corporation receiving the most model-level awards is Hyundai Motor Group (six awards), followed by General Motors Company (five);BMW AG (three); Ford Motor Company (two) and Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. (two).
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Hyundai Motor Group models that rank highest in their respective segments are Genesis G70; Hyundai Santa Fe; Kia Forte; Kia Rio; Kia Sedona; and Kia Sportage.
General Motors Company models that rank highest in their segments are Cadillac Escalade; Chevrolet Equinox; Chevrolet Malibu; Chevrolet Silverado HD; and Chevrolet Tahoe.
BMW AG models that rank highest in their segments are BMW 2 Series; BMW X4; and MINI Cooper.
Ford Motor Company models that rank highest in their segments are Ford Fusion and Ford Ranger.
Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. models that rank highest in their segments are Nissan Maxima and Nissan Titan.
Other models that rank highest in their respective segments are Dodge Challenger, Lexus RX and Mercedes-Benz CLS.
The 2019 U.S. Initial Quality Study is based on responses from 76,256 purchasers and lessees of new 2019 model-year vehicles who were surveyed after 90 days of ownership. The study is based on a 233-question battery organized into eight vehicle categories designed to provide manufacturers with information to facilitate the identification of problems and drive product improvement. The study was fielded from February through May 2019.
10-23-2014 | 08:14 AM
