I don't like where this is going...

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Old Oct 9, 2010 | 06:56 PM
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I don't like where this is going...

Although we all know that engineers have been trying to make cars drive themselves, like in the DARPA challenges. It looks like google is taking it a step further and using the winner from one of the DARPA challenges to help them create a self-driving car. I'll put up the short version and the long, choose which ever you like.

Summarized version: Engadget
There's a Toyota Prius in California, and a VW Passat halfway around the globe -- each equipped with bucket-shaped contraptions that let the cars drive themselves. Following their research on autonomous autos in the DARPA Urban Challenge, a team at Germany's TU Braunschweig let the above GPS, laser and sensor-guided Volkswagen wander down the streets of Brunswick unassisted late last week, and today Google revealed that it's secretly tested seven similar vehicles by the folks who won that same competition. CMU and Stanford engineers have designed a programmable package that can drive at the speed limit on regular streets and merge into highway traffic, stop at red lights and stop signs and automatically react to hazards -- much like the German vehicle -- except Google says its seven autos have already gone 1,000 unassisted miles each. That's still a drop in the bucket, of course, compared to the efforts it will take to bring the technology home -- Google estimates self-driving vehicles are at least eight years down the road. Watch the TU Braunschweig vehicle in action after the break.

Long version: New York Times
MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. — Anyone driving the twists of Highway 1 between San Francisco and Los Angeles recently may have glimpsed a Toyota Prius with a curious funnel-like cylinder on the roof. Harder to notice was that the person at the wheel was not actually driving.

The car is a project of Google, which has been working in secret but in plain view on vehicles that can drive themselves, using artificial-intelligence software that can sense anything near the car and mimic the decisions made by a human driver.

With someone behind the wheel to take control if something goes awry and a technician in the passenger seat to monitor the navigation system, seven test cars have driven 1,000 miles without human intervention and more than 140,000 miles with only occasional human control. One even drove itself down Lombard Street in San Francisco, one of the steepest and curviest streets in the nation. The only accident, engineers said, was when one Google car was rear-ended while stopped at a traffic light.

Autonomous cars are years from mass production, but technologists who have long dreamed of them believe that they can transform society as profoundly as the Internet has.

Robot drivers react faster than humans, have 360-degree perception and do not get distracted, sleepy or intoxicated, the engineers argue. They speak in terms of lives saved and injuries avoided — more than 37,000 people died in car accidents in the United States in 2008. The engineers say the technology could double the capacity of roads by allowing cars to drive more safely while closer together. Because the robot cars would eventually be less likely to crash, they could be built lighter, reducing fuel consumption. But of course, to be truly safer, the cars must be far more reliable than, say, today’s personal computers, which crash on occasion and are frequently infected.

The Google research program using artificial intelligence to revolutionize the automobile is proof that the company’s ambitions reach beyond the search engine business. The program is also a departure from the mainstream of innovation in Silicon Valley, which has veered toward social networks and Hollywood-style digital media.

During a half-hour drive beginning on Google’s campus 35 miles south of San Francisco last Wednesday, a Prius equipped with a variety of sensors and following a route programmed into the GPS navigation system nimbly accelerated in the entrance lane and merged into fast-moving traffic on Highway 101, the freeway through Silicon Valley.

It drove at the speed limit, which it knew because the limit for every road is included in its database, and left the freeway several exits later. The device atop the car produced a detailed map of the environment.

The car then drove in city traffic through Mountain View, stopping for lights and stop signs, as well as making announcements like “approaching a crosswalk” (to warn the human at the wheel) or “turn ahead” in a pleasant female voice. This same pleasant voice would, engineers said, alert the driver if a master control system detected anything amiss with the various sensors.

The car can be programmed for different driving personalities — from cautious, in which it is more likely to yield to another car, to aggressive, where it is more likely to go first.

Christopher Urmson, a Carnegie Mellon University robotics scientist, was behind the wheel but not using it. To gain control of the car he has to do one of three things: hit a red button near his right hand, touch the brake or turn the steering wheel. He did so twice, once when a bicyclist ran a red light and again when a car in front stopped and began to back into a parking space. But the car seemed likely to have prevented an accident itself.

When he returned to automated “cruise” mode, the car gave a little “whir” meant to evoke going into warp drive on “Star Trek,” and Dr. Urmson was able to rest his hands by his sides or gesticulate when talking to a passenger in the back seat. He said the cars did attract attention, but people seem to think they are just the next generation of the Street View cars that Google uses to take photographs and collect data for its maps.

The project is the brainchild of Sebastian Thrun, the 43-year-old director of the Stanford Artificial Intelligence Laboratory, a Google engineer and the co-inventor of the Street View mapping service.

In 2005, he led a team of Stanford students and faculty members in designing the Stanley robot car, winning the second Grand Challenge of the Defense Advance Research Projects Agency, a $2 million Pentagon prize for driving autonomously over 132 miles in the California desert.

Besides the team of 15 engineers working on the current project, Google hired more than a dozen people, each with a spotless driving record, to sit in the driver’s seat, paying $15 an hour or more. Google is using six Priuses and an Audi TT in the project.

The Google researchers said the company did not yet have a clear plan to create a business from the experiments. Dr. Thrun is known as a passionate promoter of the potential to use robotic vehicles to make highways safer and lower the nation’s energy costs. It is a commitment shared by Larry Page, Google’s co-founder, according to several people familiar with the project.

The self-driving car initiative is an example of Google’s willingness to gamble on technology that may not pay off for years, Dr. Thrun said. Even the most optimistic predictions put the deployment of the technology more than eight years away.

One way Google might be able to profit is to provide information and navigation services for makers of autonomous vehicles. Or, it might sell or give away the navigation technology itself, much as it offers its Android smart phone system to cellphone companies.

But the advent of autonomous vehicles poses thorny legal issues, the Google researchers acknowledged. Under current law, a human must be in control of a car at all times, but what does that mean if the human is not really paying attention as the car crosses through, say, a school zone, figuring that the robot is driving more safely than he would?

And in the event of an accident, who would be liable — the person behind the wheel or the maker of the software?

“The technology is ahead of the law in many areas,” said Bernard Lu, senior staff counsel for the California Department of Motor Vehicles. “If you look at the vehicle code, there are dozens of laws pertaining to the driver of a vehicle, and they all presume to have a human being operating the vehicle.”

The Google researchers said they had carefully examined California’s motor vehicle regulations and determined that because a human driver can override any error, the experimental cars are legal. Mr. Lu agreed.

Scientists and engineers have been designing autonomous vehicles since the mid-1960s, but crucial innovation happened in 2004 when the Pentagon’s research arm began its Grand Challenge.

The first contest ended in failure, but in 2005, Dr. Thrun’s Stanford team built the car dubbed Stanley that won a race with a rival vehicle built by a team from Carnegie Mellon University. Less than two years later, another event proved that autonomous vehicles could drive safely in urban settings.

Advances have been so encouraging that Dr. Thrun sounds like an evangelist when he speaks of robot cars. There is their potential to reduce fuel consumption by eliminating heavy-footed stop-and-go drivers and, given the reduced possibility of accidents, to ultimately build more lightweight vehicles.

There is even the farther-off prospect of cars that do not need anyone behind the wheel. That would allow the cars to be summoned electronically, so that people could share them. Fewer cars would then be needed, reducing the need for parking spaces, which consume valuable land.

And, of course, the cars could save humans from themselves. “Can we text twice as much while driving, without the guilt?” Dr. Thrun said in a recent talk. “Yes, we can, if only cars will drive themselves.”
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Old Oct 9, 2010 | 07:24 PM
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I hate the self driving car. This would never work, sorry.
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Old Oct 9, 2010 | 08:43 PM
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Hell. No. I'm not giving up my autonomy like that.
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Old Oct 9, 2010 | 08:54 PM
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^
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Old Oct 9, 2010 | 09:22 PM
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I-Robot, not only a great movie but close to what the future will look like imo.
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Old Oct 9, 2010 | 11:50 PM
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I remember Eric Schmidt(CEO of google) said people shouldnt be trusted to drive cars.
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Old Oct 9, 2010 | 11:53 PM
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I think BMW has been working on this for a while as well.
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Old Oct 10, 2010 | 12:08 AM
  #8  
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we're decades away from this ever becoming practical.
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Old Oct 10, 2010 | 03:19 AM
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hope it doesn't happen in my life time
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Old Oct 10, 2010 | 04:25 AM
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I wonder what kind of fail-safe they have if the electronics go haywire.
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Old Oct 10, 2010 | 09:37 AM
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^ your two hands. by then our reflexes and bone density would devolve to nothing.
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Old Oct 10, 2010 | 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by pokin
I think BMW has been working on this for a while as well.
The Ultimate Self Driving Machine.

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Old Oct 10, 2010 | 11:21 AM
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I don't like it, either, but I don't even like the array of mandated e-nannies that are in new cars. Since it seems inevitable, I'm at least hoping these cars just be bought by people who don't like driving and will then just stay in a certain lane. But I'm more concerned that that type of car will be mandated.

I may be a luddite in this respect, but the more I see of where cars are going, the more I want to build a large garage and start buying well cared for older cars.
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Old Oct 10, 2010 | 02:32 PM
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I think if the world ever comes to this, cyber security better be freaking high. We are assuming each car can talk to each other so they dont crash. Which means that there can be a way to hack into a car and basically put it on a collision course.
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Old Oct 10, 2010 | 02:34 PM
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I agree, this better not be in my lifetime. Isn't there already a car out that can park for you? Seems like I saw it in a music video.
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Old Oct 10, 2010 | 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by AMUA6
I agree, this better not be in my lifetime. Isn't there already a car out that can park for you? Seems like I saw it in a music video.
lexus
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Old Oct 10, 2010 | 06:06 PM
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I love to just drive, as long as there isn't any traffic and the car I'm driving isn't a complete bore. But a bunch of computer-controlled car that can communicate with other cars will probably cut down on accidents, traffic, and moving violations by a LOT. Plus, some people really should have a computer driving their car, but there really isn't any other way to take away their driving privilege.... I'm sure you'll agree.

I was watching some program where a scientist was discussing this, and if all cars were computer controlled, there wouldn't be a need for lanes. The computers would communicate to each other, determine the optimum amount of traffic and adapt to drive in 2 lanes or 6 lanes given enough room, something that's impossible considering what drivers are like right now. They would "talk" to each other and if one car wants to change lanes, the other car(s) will yield even before the first car signals.

I'm open to the idea, as long as you don't take the capability for me to drive on my own away from me. I would like for my car to drive me home if I drove myself and had too much to drink, or to get in some extra sleep on the early morning commute if necessary. Or if traffic is being a PITA and I don't feel like driving.

And have we forgotten how awesome self-driving cars can be?



I'd rather have this one though

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Old Oct 10, 2010 | 07:22 PM
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8 years out hmmm. Well we will never see. 2012 is just around the corner.
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Old Oct 11, 2010 | 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Costco
I love to just drive, as long as there isn't any traffic and the car I'm driving isn't a complete bore.
as long as you don't take the capability for me to drive on my own away from me. I would like for my car to drive me home if I drove myself and had too much to drink, or to get in some extra sleep on the early morning commute if necessary. Or if traffic is being a PITA and I don't feel like driving.
These
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Old Oct 11, 2010 | 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by batman
I-Robot, not only a great movie but close to what the future will look like imo.
The movie Runaway (1984) also depicted a future with automated highways. (Although not as notable at I-Robot, Tom Selleck and Gene Simmons were fairly popular at that time.)

That said, with Bob. If I cannot enjoy the pleasure of driving a vehicle, why bother having one....just use mass transit. It'd certainly be a LOT less expensive if not only marginally more inconvenient. BTW: I'm sure this would make the 'Greater Good Committee' drool.
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Old Oct 11, 2010 | 03:26 PM
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Go figure:
A fender-bender is caused by a self-driving GOOGLEmobile occupied by a driver, who was not operating the vehicle.

Who gets the traffic ticket?
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Old Oct 11, 2010 | 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by pokin
Go figure:
A fender-bender is caused by a self-driving GOOGLEmobile occupied by a driver, who was not operating the vehicle.

Who gets the traffic ticket?

That's actually a good counterpoint pokin. Automated highways would make it more difficult for many municipalities to shake down the motoring public.....though I suppose they'll find other methods of fleecing us.
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Old Oct 11, 2010 | 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by pokin
Go figure:
A fender-bender is caused by a self-driving GOOGLEmobile occupied by a driver, who was not operating the vehicle.

Who gets the traffic ticket?
All states become "no-fault" states....problem solved.
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Old Oct 14, 2010 | 02:28 PM
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<img style="visibility:hidden;width:0px;height:0px;" border=0 width=0 height=0 src="http://counters.gigya.com/wildfire/IMP/CXNID=2000002.0NXC/bT*xJmx*PTEyODcwODQzMjUyNTImcHQ9MTI4NzA4NDMyODYwMy ZwPTEyNTg*MTEmZD1BQkNOZXdzX1NGUF9Mb2NrZV9FbWJlZCZn/PTMmbz1jNDQzYmYwMjkxYjU*MjYxODFmMjFlZjlkMGVjYTQ1MS ZvZj*w.gif" /><object classid="clsid27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=9,0,124,0" width="344" height="278" id="ABCESNWID"><param name="movie" value="http://abcnews.go.com/assets/player/walt2.6/flash/SFP_Walt.swf" /><param name="quality" value="high" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><param name="allowNetworking" value="all" /><param name="flashvars" value="configUrl=http://abcnews.go.com/video/sfp/embedPlayerConfig&configId=406732&clipId=11857670& showId=11857670&gig_lt=1287084325252&gig_pt=128708 4328603&gig_g=3" /><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><embed src="http://abcnews.go.com/assets/player/walt2.6/flash/SFP_Walt.swf" quality="high" allowScriptAccess="always" allowNetworking="all" allowfullscreen="true" pluginspage="http://www.adobe.com/shockwave/download/download.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="344" height="278" flashvars="configUrl=http://abcnews.go.com/video/sfp/embedPlayerConfig&configId=406732&clipId=11857670& showId=11857670&gig_lt=1287084325252&gig_pt=128708 4328603&gig_g=3" name="ABCESNWID"></embed></object>

I got to admit, that is pretty cool technology. Can be useful at times. Its like a personal DD lol
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Old Oct 14, 2010 | 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by pokin
Go figure:
A fender-bender is caused by a self-driving GOOGLEmobile occupied by a driver, who was not operating the vehicle.

Who gets the traffic ticket?
according to the video i just posted its still the drivers fault.
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Old Oct 14, 2010 | 05:35 PM
  #26  
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After some more thought, I'm pretty sure this won't be available for manual transmission cars....
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Old Oct 14, 2010 | 05:46 PM
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I think I'd rather step in front of a self-driving car than a car driven by someone who's also trying to text at the same time.
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Old Oct 14, 2010 | 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Costco
After some more thought, I'm pretty sure this won't be available for manual transmission cars....
By the time this comes out lets hope there are manual cars left
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Old Oct 14, 2010 | 07:39 PM
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If anyone could do it DARPA and Boston Dynamics would be the people that do....
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Old Oct 15, 2010 | 11:37 AM
  #30  
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10 years ago, I would have said, no way.

Now, I'm not so sure (regardless of the technology). 40,000 people die every year on the roads, if that could be reduced dramatically think of the impact, economically, and socially.

I love to drive. I've taken driving course, raced in a variety of disciplines, and have put a LOT of miles on many automobiles. But I just can't help thinking that most of the trouble I have had on the road, is due to idiot drivers, and there are a LOT of idiots these days. Driver's training in this country is a joke, and people don't care enough to change it. So my belief is that control of an automobile should be as automated as possible, as soon as possible. Yes there will be accidents due to the automation, but I bet there would be a dramatic reduction from the 40,000 killed each year.
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Old Oct 15, 2010 | 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Jiggy2dmax
If anyone could do it DARPA and Boston Dynamics would be the people that do....
I think google hooked up with DARPA for what they are doing.
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Old Oct 18, 2010 | 10:47 PM
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im not surprised by the responses on here since we're all a bunch of car enthusiasts but think about the rest of the population who are indifferent to driving or actually hate to drive (and have no choice because not every city has good public trans.)

this will be the future unfortunately
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Old Nov 7, 2010 | 10:26 PM
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This would only be good for the mouthbreathers and Retards that continue to text and drive.
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Old Nov 8, 2010 | 12:45 AM
  #34  
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Cheaper and more practical alternative is to create an effective driving education course. With all the idiots out on the road these days it seems driver licenses are being handed out like free candy.
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Old Nov 8, 2010 | 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Gfaze
Cheaper and more practical alternative is to create an effective driving education course. With all the idiots out on the road these days it seems driver licenses are being handed out like free candy.
Thats exactly what i said in another thread about all the safety features on the cars today.
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Old Nov 11, 2010 | 08:37 PM
  #36  
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Dealing with cars that park themselves, VW is trying to one up lexus and lincoln. Instead of being able to parallel park, vw is trying to design a car that will go park by itself and when you call for it when your done eating, or w/e your doing it will come pick you up.

As cars that drives themselves I would not mind this lol. I hate looking for parking. One thing I question about this is, if a car goes to a parking garage with no driver, how does one pay? lol
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Old Nov 11, 2010 | 08:45 PM
  #37  
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No need to pay, they'll just tow your ass

Kind of funny thinking about it though, imagine smart alarm systems and smart (not Smart) cars driving themselves away when a vandal tries to key your car or someone tries to tow you away.
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Old Nov 11, 2010 | 08:55 PM
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your key fob will start vibrating letting you know about either of those things and you can enable an evade option
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