DarkSithCL

iTrader: (1)

yup, one my friends said about 3 months ago, they wanted to knock off about 4-5 g's just so they could get one on the doctor's lot at the hospital...
















he said NO...he kept his CLS, which was paid for and...I have no idea whatda hell he did.....

biker

I'm sure you could get 3k off an E320 now that the E350 is right around the corner, but I digress.

If you look at the things that were in the old and new RL, the only extra expense Honda had to add was the SH-AWD. Assuming 2K extra for that it makes the car a little over 40K considering that the outgoing RL was selling for less than 40K.
Like I said before - there's nothing wrong with the car, Acura just reached a bit too high with the MSRP.

With its track record you'd think Infiniti would be the one to lose the "selling at sticker" war in this class. But with it's fairly low sitcker I have a feeling the new M will be selling for sticker longer than the RL.

F23A4

Unlike what is reported in our contemporary mass media, context really does matter. So when a claim is made that it's "breaking sales records", then a perspective is required in order to maintain its context.

To wit, the new RL is substantially better than the outgoing RL so ideally it should have no problem setting such "records". Whether or not one wants to construe or misconstrue contextual orientation as deceitfulness within the orginal statement is quite immaterial. FFT

Chief F1 Fan

And cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep too Greenie!

heyitsme

All this aside, I find rumors of a 7-series competitor from Acura very doubtful if they are going to have a hard time maintaining sales of a 50k car. They seem to have the same problem Infiniti has had, they can't sell 50k + cars like Lexus has been able to do. Whether the M45 can change that is another story.

phile

In this particular case, context does not matter. You're taking a broader philosophy and applying it a very narrow instance. It is gratuitous to even point out that someone would need to look at this particular claim within this particular context. All you have to do is look at past sales figure - the RL was a lame duck, no doubt about it. The fact that a newer, substantially better RL should outsell the outgoing model - that is a given, or at least we hope it to be the case. So while it may seem trivial for Acura to even put out such a claim, no matter how factual it actually is, it's simply gratuitous for someone else to scrutinize that claim and attempt to reveal it as nothing more than exaggeration or deceit on Acura's part. IMO that's not an objective way of looking at it, it's purely cynical.

biker

Until it loses too much money Acura keeps selling the NSX. It's all a matter of bottom line. As poorly as the Phaeton sells, if it still makes money for VW it will keep selling them. So if Acura can make a business case for a true flagship, it will build/sell one.

F23A4

I'll agree............. to disagree.....

phile

I can do that, after I add this: An example of where context would matter is in Acura's claiming that the 300hp RL is the most powerful in its class. While it's true that its rivals don' t have 300 ponies, it's also true that those rivals offer optional V8 engines, whose torque ratings are greater than the RL's torque rating, and thus the definition of "power" must be reevaluated in that claim by Acura.

MADCAT

I've yet to see a new RL on the road....

Crazy Bimmer

yes, but the E320 didnt JUST come out.

The E350 will sell for close to sticker for a while is my guess.

M TYPE X

IN TORONTO?! Whoa.

I've seen a couple down here.

MADCAT

No serious. I have been driving alot these past two months and I've tried hard to spot one. But nothing!

MSZ

You have to drive even more then, like I said eariler in this thread, I have seen 5 RLs in TO already.

F23A4

I just saw one about 2 hrs ago on my way to Best Buy; that's the first one I've seen in MY neighborhood. For the record, black is NOT it's most favorable color.

TLer

5 RL's since its introduction just confirms what this thread is all about. These cars are just not selling. And like I said before, Acura needs to work on this car's recognition factor. They can't just slap a $70K sticker and expect that to sell the car. BTW this car is going to make a nice used buy some day based on current lease rates and predicted residuals.

phile

Acura is only planning to sell 20,000 units per year. For comparison, Honda sells about that many Accords in a 2 month period. You're not going to see one every time you make a turn.

MADCAT

Agreed. Also, not seeing many 5 Series BMW since its intro is another worry for BMW. Hell, I've seen more Chevy Cobalts then them already.

dom

MADCAT don't forget that in Canada the RL sells for 70K. A tad overpriced IMO and then factor in the fact the Canadians buy small cheap cars and its not all that surprising we don't see many.

I've seen two so far.

MADCAT

You are so right. If we weren't taxed on everything that we did, then we could afford such cars. Thats why we have EL here, most Cdns are not even middle class enough to afford TL, let alone RLs. A $70 K Acura could spell doom for it up here.

MSZ

I am with phile on this one, do you guys expected to see RL everyday?

SeCsTaC

no but i think there saying after 3 months of being on sale theyd of liked to see atleast 1 or 2

youngTL

I think so too. That would explain why the EL is the number 1 selling Acura in Canada. My brother just bought a used 2001. Great deal over a loaded civic.
I haven't seen ANY brand new expensive Lexuses or MB's. The most expensive thing I saw on the road was a BMW 530i. I've seen quite a few slow 318i's out there with HUBCAPS and CLOTH SEATS.

Stevens24

The E class sells so well that MB has dealer cash on 05s already. 2500 on the 320s and 3500 on the e500. All that Acura is concerned with is that they sell the 20k units they are planning for.

TLer

Okay irrespective of their sales target for this car, the point remains that sightings are very limited for this car. One can equally argue that marks like MB, Audi, BMW which don't really rely on the types like the E class, Audi 6, and 5 series respectively for their bread and butter and similarly, Acura does not rely on the sales of the RL to survive but you see more of those aforementioned cars on any given day which are actually similar in terms of price and can also be pricier based on options.

F23A4

Well stated.

MADCAT

TL/MDX is the foundation for Acura.

Stevens24

4000 units sold in the US in 4 months in a country of 300million. the new 5 series has been out for over a year. I haven't seen a new A6 on the road. they must suck. I remember the same people saying this about the TL and now they complain because they are everywhere.

F23A4

I dont recall anyone saying that.

MADCAT

The TL sold like gang busters when it first came out for $35K in Canada. I think they did overprice the RL.

goldmemberer

The E320 was the best selling benz before the recent C230k coupe (the hybrid looking ugly bitch) and C240 sedan. It was their bread and butter. But you make a good point nonetheless.

phile

You're missing the point completely. Acura's 20K is small compared to sales of the E-Class, the sales leader in this category. Just last year alone MB sold over 50K E-Class cars...and mind you, it's been on the market longer than the new RL...so you're going to see more of that car. As for the 5-Series? A little over 45K last year.

http://www.aicautosite.com/editoria/asmr/svsedan.asp

While I have seen only 2 RL's so far, I have only seen 1 new Audi A6 so far, and Audi is only projecting 24K for the A6 per year. So it seems like the RL sighting is equally on par with another car whose sales volume is similar.

F23A4

Crazy Bimmer

The 2gen TL was hit when it was released. I will even bet that it sold more than the 3rd gen is now.

TLer

What point am I missing? I believe the thread asks if the RL is selling and almost everyone agrees with the point that it's not. The sales targets you mention are indicative of the fact that I mentioned earlier as well. MB with its 50K sales /year for its E class, BMW with its target at 45K for the 5 all demonstrate the fact that these marques are "known" to the masses that buy them and these manufacturers are fully confident that their cars will sell and hence the higher target sales and consequently more road sightings. Acura is treading into a new territory with this RL and they are obvioulsy not confident about how it will sell and as a result have conservative sales targets and rightly so because their initial fears are coming true because this car although truly technologically advanced is not selling period. As far as your point about Audi goes, I have to say that their reputation of unreliable cars has alot to do with less sales. This may not be very true for the newer products but this stigma will always haunt them. Acura on the other hand has a very strong reputation for building bullet proof cars but alas even this is apparently not sufficient enough for people to buy the RL.

F23A4

Well stated.

I think there are two camps in general: the brand loyal enthusiast and the car enthusiast. The latter can appreciate the models within most makes and critique where each make has hit or miss with each model. The former believes that the brand they're loyal to is the best and and any shortcoming is subjective no matter what the reality may be. As such, they think that anyone who believes otherwise cant appreciate the brand-model or it's assumed mission.

I've seen this A LOT over the years between the Chevy and Ford guys.

F23A4, who's part of the latter group.

TLer

True to the max. I can relate as well for I too am part of the latter. My own first purchase was a Ford (Yeah! Ford that's right, but I was 22 just bought my 1990 5.0 LX Mustang in 1994 and loved the performance bang for the buck this car offered and it just so happens that I jumped on the brand loyal band wagon (unavoidable IMHO, I mean are you really gonna let the other guy bad mouth your baby? I don't think so). Ahhh the sweet memories, boy did I let those Chevy guys have it.

95gt

Not getting most of what you wrote. By your definition Porsches and Ferraris etc are not selling well because they only sell in small numbers. Acura chose their sales target ( I guarantee you they will make a profit at that target) and are going with it. No idea why you are saying they are not selling period as the 3rd post in this thread showed that they are setting sales records vs prior years

First year being out and it is selling up to its target goals does NOT equal a sales failure. The coming years will paint the picture of how it is doing and how america is accepting it. Companies do not come out of the box and set an unrealistic sales goal, they set an attainable goal and try and meet/beat it then adjust future years goals based on that.

TLer

weFirstly, I can't make it any simpler than that sorry. Secondly, I don't think anywhere did I state that low target sales means a bad selling car. I agree with you on the fact that manufacturers set these targets freely but at the same token I must reiterate that there is a level of confidence the manufacturer has in setting them becuase they know they can meet them. Now as far as the product itself living up to its promise to deliver is a whole different issue. Acura has set a lower target to air on the side of caution because they realize that it is sort of a new territory they are trying to tred into and one in which they failed miserably with their last RL. Your argument about the first year sales not being indicative of product failure does not hold any water. For any viable business to exist in this very competitive market, they need to keep an eye on how well their product is doing and make adjustments accordingly to ensure they don't see red ink instead of sitting around hoping the next year or the year after that will be better. I don't see Acura doing anything to promote this product and as a result I don't see this RL making any waves in the sales department.

phile

There it is...you don't care what the sales target means, just as long as you aren't seeing any RL's, you say it's not selling. So while you're not outright saying it, that's what is being implied. Unless you want to clear it up some more.