General Car Talk Discussion Thread
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iTrader: (1)
the corolla hatch with the larger grille opening is sexy
Team Owner
When the ES was a blatant rebadge, yeah. It's as Maj has said, they realized their brand. And partly because the desire has to been to reach out to a younger crowd.
They still are. The grille has nothing to do with that except Lexus' desire to re-envision the company's image, much like Cadillac's success in the last 10 years. People joke, but the grille does what it's supposed to and there's a big reason you're seeing Toyota incorporate larger grilles on the new Avalon & Corolla.
They still are. The grille has nothing to do with that except Lexus' desire to re-envision the company's image, much like Cadillac's success in the last 10 years. People joke, but the grille does what it's supposed to and there's a big reason you're seeing Toyota incorporate larger grilles on the new Avalon & Corolla.
and what does the Grille do exactly? What is the bigger reason? Instead of the front bumper, they might as well call it the front grille.
Last edited by oonowindoo; 07-19-2018 at 12:41 PM.
Team Owner
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
I blame Audi, they started it.
Toyota / Lexus just went full derpina on it
2024 Honda Civic Type R
You think that looks good justn??? Where's the red text?
Ugh.
At least when Audi did it, it actually looked pretty good.
Remember when the Evo X went to a large grille?
Ugh.
Remember when the Evo X went to a large grille?
Last edited by RPhilMan1; 07-19-2018 at 02:02 PM.
Team Owner
Anyways, people who are interested in buying Lexus and Toyota will buy them regardless because they buy for fuel economy and reliability. If they are trying to attract young buyers with those mouth open things.... it is not working.
In more interesting news, i was browsing BMW's website and realized 2019 M2 Competition package ditched N55 and got M3/M4's engine with 2 turbos
at $60k fully loaded, that is cheap and scary fast. Why bother even offering the M240i at almost the same price (fully loaded)
In more interesting news, i was browsing BMW's website and realized 2019 M2 Competition package ditched N55 and got M3/M4's engine with 2 turbos
at $60k fully loaded, that is cheap and scary fast. Why bother even offering the M240i at almost the same price (fully loaded)
Last edited by oonowindoo; 07-19-2018 at 02:10 PM.
Senior Moderator
Anyways, people who are interested in buying Lexus and Toyota will buy them regardless because they buy for fuel economy and reliability. If they are trying to attract young buyers with those mouth open things.... it is not working.
In more interesting news, i was browsing BMW's website and realized 2019 M2 Competition package ditched N55 and got M3/M4's engine with 2 turbos
at $60k fully loaded, that is cheap and scary fast.
In more interesting news, i was browsing BMW's website and realized 2019 M2 Competition package ditched N55 and got M3/M4's engine with 2 turbos
at $60k fully loaded, that is cheap and scary fast.
Team Owner
Really? Usually all the i know who bought Lexus are all over 50...
Senior Moderator
2017:
BMW - 305,685
Lexus - 305,229
2016:
BMW - 313,174
Lexus - 331,228
2015:
BMW - 346,023
Lexus - 344,601
2014:
BMW - 339,738
Lexus - 311,389
2013:
BMW - 309,280
Lexus - 273,847
2012:
BMW - 281,460
Lexus - 244,162
2011 was the year of the tsunami that affected Lexus' lots. Were Lexus sales higher than BMW before 2011? Yes. But it should be noted that 2010-2008, BMW was only behind 10-20,000 units. From 2007-2004, BMW was behind around 30-40,000 units. They were making up ground on Lexus. Did the spindle affect the first few years? Possibly. But you said was and judging by the last 3 years, there is no was anymore; Lexus is right with BMW in an age where the spindle has remained and evolved even more on to every model.
Green is Mercedes, red is BMW, yellow is Lexus, blue is Audi, purple is Porsche, all based on 2010-2017 sales.
and what does the Grille do exactly? What is the bigger reason? Instead of the front bumper, they might as well call it the front grille.
Anyways, people who are interested in buying Lexus and Toyota will buy them regardless because they buy for fuel economy and reliability. If they are trying to attract young buyers with those mouth open things.... it is not working.
I work in a Lexus store, I see the people who sign the paperwork. The people buying the cars are definitely in line with the markets their after. We've had young guys buy IS', guys in their 30's buying GS', and older, more successful folks in the LS'.
Last edited by Rick_TL-S; 07-19-2018 at 02:47 PM.
Team Owner
We know you work for Lexus and that is why you are biased, which is fine. we all are.
I also know there are some younger buyers for IS and 30s to buy GS. There are also people in their 20s buying LS.... does that make it a car that targets younger crowd?
I know how you got those #s. SUVs are different, even Acura sells them in bunches.
Let's compare the cars #s
2017
Lexus - 104,290
BMW - 202,201
You can throw anything on the RX and it will sell.... But if you start looking at IS and GS's number, you will see it is pretty much dead... almost at Acura's level.
If you say Lexus is still up there with the Germans, then Acura is too... MDX and RDX are carrying the entire brand, where RX and NX are carrying Lexus.
How many IS did Lexus sell last month? 1000? So yes, if Lexus wants to please younger crowd,,, unless you think younger crowd = RX350, then it is not working. There is no assumption, it is #s.
and i dont know what kind of training materials Lexus provided, but last time i checked Cadillac did not throw predator's mouth on every car they sold... their design is still rather conservative.
I also know there are some younger buyers for IS and 30s to buy GS. There are also people in their 20s buying LS.... does that make it a car that targets younger crowd?
I know how you got those #s. SUVs are different, even Acura sells them in bunches.
Let's compare the cars #s
2017
Lexus - 104,290
BMW - 202,201
You can throw anything on the RX and it will sell.... But if you start looking at IS and GS's number, you will see it is pretty much dead... almost at Acura's level.
If you say Lexus is still up there with the Germans, then Acura is too... MDX and RDX are carrying the entire brand, where RX and NX are carrying Lexus.
How many IS did Lexus sell last month? 1000? So yes, if Lexus wants to please younger crowd,,, unless you think younger crowd = RX350, then it is not working. There is no assumption, it is #s.
and i dont know what kind of training materials Lexus provided, but last time i checked Cadillac did not throw predator's mouth on every car they sold... their design is still rather conservative.
Last edited by oonowindoo; 07-19-2018 at 04:35 PM.
Congratulations, you didn't prove anything except Lexus knows how to properly focus its models in this market.
Since you insist on editing.
And? That doesn't change the demographic Lexus is trying to entice with those models. It also doesn't change the fact you stated sales #s without specifics and decided to go after 1 specific market when the results didn't line up with what your statement.
This is cherry picking once again. Let me know when Acura's SUV line up is strong enough to pick up the rest of its line up & match any of the Germany brands overall.
Why do you think they're building a UX? And I guess it's easy to not make mention of the NX that was up 8.1% and is marketed towards a younger demographic.
I didn't know it was this possible to be purposely dumb about what a re-design means.
You can throw anything on the RX and it will sell.... But if you start looking at IS and GS's number, you will see it is pretty much dead... almost at Acura's level.
If you say Lexus is still up there with the Germans, then Acura is too... MDX and RDX are carrying the entire brand, where RX and NX are carrying Lexus.
How many IS did Lexus sell last month? 1000? So yes, if Lexus wants to please younger crowd,,, unless you think younger crowd = RX350, then it is not working. There is no assumption, it is #s.
and i dont know what kind of training materials Lexus provided, but last time i checked Cadillac did not throw predator's mouth on every car they sold... their design is still rather conservative.
Team Owner
I dont think seperating SUV and car are Model specific..... we have been doing that for years with Acura to see if they are sucessful or not.
If you asked Is Lexus scuessful as an SUV company, then yes.
Well if you think Lexus is successful in appealing to younger crowd, then good for you. There are still plenty of people here think Acura is extremely successful too. Nothing new.
If you are saying Lexus's new design is trying to please younger crowd, which is a fact and the indicator of success is how many SUVs they sold, then you are right and i am wrong.
how is that?
If you asked Is Lexus scuessful as an SUV company, then yes.
Well if you think Lexus is successful in appealing to younger crowd, then good for you. There are still plenty of people here think Acura is extremely successful too. Nothing new.
If you are saying Lexus's new design is trying to please younger crowd, which is a fact and the indicator of success is how many SUVs they sold, then you are right and i am wrong.
how is that?
Team Owner
Their products aren't bad, but they don't lead in really any category... that's been their M.O. for at least the past decade. But... I think they do it on purpose. They don't crank heavy power from their engines. Their engines aren't fuel sippers. But... they are reliable AF. I think they put more emphasis on building cars that will run with little maintenance for 25 years, as opposed to excelling here or there.
None of their F offerings, or F-Sport offerings come close to performing like their direct competitors do. The LC500 has been rated as a "meh" car to drive, through numerous test drives I've read/watched. Same with the RC-F, last I looked into it. But again, they're not bad products, per say.
Team Owner
Since you insist on editing.
And? That doesn't change the demographic Lexus is trying to entice with those models. It also doesn't change the fact you stated sales #s without specifics and decided to go after 1 specific market when the results didn't line up with what your statement.
This is cherry picking once again. Let me know when Acura's SUV line up is strong enough to pick up the rest of its line up & match any of the Germany brands overall.
Why do you think they're building a UX? And I guess it's easy to not make mention of the NX that was up 8.1% and is marketed towards a younger demographic.
I didn't know it was this possible to be purposely dumb about what a re-design means.
And? That doesn't change the demographic Lexus is trying to entice with those models. It also doesn't change the fact you stated sales #s without specifics and decided to go after 1 specific market when the results didn't line up with what your statement.
This is cherry picking once again. Let me know when Acura's SUV line up is strong enough to pick up the rest of its line up & match any of the Germany brands overall.
Why do you think they're building a UX? And I guess it's easy to not make mention of the NX that was up 8.1% and is marketed towards a younger demographic.
I didn't know it was this possible to be purposely dumb about what a re-design means.
I have seen this type of argument from Acura fanboys here for years....
Team Owner
Rick, dont get too worked up... i know you work for Lexus and you would defend it to the end of the world. But i dont, so i say things based on my observation.
Chill.
Chill.
Sales # talks. If Lexus can sell similar #s as the Germans, then yes they still are. If they can't, then everything else is not relevant.
Lexus was pretty much at the German level until they introduced the predator grill on everything they had. I dont know what happened to them.....
Well if you think Lexus is successful in appealing to younger crowd, then good for you. There are still plenty of people here think Acura is extremely successful too. Nothing new.
If you are saying Lexus's new design is trying to please younger crowd, which is a fact and the indicator of success is how many SUVs they sold, then you are right and i am wrong.
You never mentioned specifics, you said "sales #s talk" as your sort of clarification to Lexus matching the Germans. I gave them to you, and now, you've shifted to meaning a specific model range. Yes, IS & GS sales are down to the Germans, IS & GS sales however, are not what solely represent Lexus just as 3 Series & 5 Series are not the only things BMW sell.
You wanted sales numbers, I gave them to you. That's all there is to this. If you were more specific in what you meant from the beginning about Lexus matching German brands, this discussion would be different.
You can claim its your observation and I can tell you as someone who observes Lexus buyers first hand, its wrong. There is no need to try and play, "well, in my opinion/observation". Your opinion is still wrong.
Last edited by Rick_TL-S; 07-19-2018 at 05:16 PM.
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
I don't disagree. They WERE good. These days, not so much.
Their products aren't bad, but they don't lead in really any category... that's been their M.O. for at least the past decade. But... I think they do it on purpose. They don't crank heavy power from their engines. Their engines aren't fuel sippers. But... they are reliable AF. I think they put more emphasis on building cars that will run with little maintenance for 25 years, as opposed to excelling here or there.
None of their F offerings, or F-Sport offerings come close to performing like their direct competitors do. The LC500 has been rated as a "meh" car to drive, through numerous test drives I've read/watched. Same with the RC-F, last I looked into it. But again, they're not bad products, per say.
Their products aren't bad, but they don't lead in really any category... that's been their M.O. for at least the past decade. But... I think they do it on purpose. They don't crank heavy power from their engines. Their engines aren't fuel sippers. But... they are reliable AF. I think they put more emphasis on building cars that will run with little maintenance for 25 years, as opposed to excelling here or there.
None of their F offerings, or F-Sport offerings come close to performing like their direct competitors do. The LC500 has been rated as a "meh" car to drive, through numerous test drives I've read/watched. Same with the RC-F, last I looked into it. But again, they're not bad products, per say.
You look at the numbers and it's not all that different than the outgoing LS460.
But it's a twin-turbo'd 3.4L V6.
They're in the forced induction game.
Is this a preview of things to come? idk.. but it's nice to see them compete.
They've had superchargers for the 5.7L V8.
It did fairly well and had some shortcomings but was fairly reliable.
I'm hopeful to say the least.
Team Owner
Ok Ok.. you win... Lexus is still up there with the Germans and younger crowd loves their new design...
I aint got the time to type a response for each of your statement. I dont even do that to SSFTSX or Saintor.
But let's just focus on this 1 thing:
How do you know this? How do you know if Lexus sales # could not be higher if the cars didnt have the predator grille?
All i know is their GS's sales # should be a lot higher than what it is.
I aint got the time to type a response for each of your statement. I dont even do that to SSFTSX or Saintor.
But let's just focus on this 1 thing:
I didn't say it was an indicator of how many SUVs they sold, those are your words. I gave you statistics that show the "predator" grille isn't affecting Lexus sales as you assumed because they put in on everything.
All i know is their GS's sales # should be a lot higher than what it is.
Last edited by oonowindoo; 07-19-2018 at 05:25 PM.
Right, but check what that LS500 is..
You look at the numbers and it's not all that different than the outgoing LS460.
But it's a twin-turbo'd 3.4L V6.
They're in the forced induction game.
Is this a preview of things to come? idk.. but it's nice to see them compete.
They've had superchargers for the 5.7L V8.
It did fairly well and had some shortcomings but was fairly reliable.
I'm hopeful to say the least.
You look at the numbers and it's not all that different than the outgoing LS460.
But it's a twin-turbo'd 3.4L V6.
They're in the forced induction game.
Is this a preview of things to come? idk.. but it's nice to see them compete.
They've had superchargers for the 5.7L V8.
It did fairly well and had some shortcomings but was fairly reliable.
I'm hopeful to say the least.
Had a baller client come in willing to drop $40,000+ on a LX for the supercharger and a body kit/wheels and we couldn't do it without him signing a waiver.
Sales could've been higher for a multitude of reasons.
Team Owner
Right, but check what that LS500 is..
You look at the numbers and it's not all that different than the outgoing LS460.
But it's a twin-turbo'd 3.4L V6.
They're in the forced induction game.
Is this a preview of things to come? idk.. but it's nice to see them compete.
They've had superchargers for the 5.7L V8.
It did fairly well and had some shortcomings but was fairly reliable.
I'm hopeful to say the least.
You look at the numbers and it's not all that different than the outgoing LS460.
But it's a twin-turbo'd 3.4L V6.
They're in the forced induction game.
Is this a preview of things to come? idk.. but it's nice to see them compete.
They've had superchargers for the 5.7L V8.
It did fairly well and had some shortcomings but was fairly reliable.
I'm hopeful to say the least.
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Oh really.. I heard if Toyota installs the S/C on the Tundra (last gen), they'll warranty the engine and S/C for 3yrs 36k miles.
That wasn't a bad deal. Acura sure as hell didn't do the same for the C/T S/C.
That wasn't a bad deal. Acura sure as hell didn't do the same for the C/T S/C.
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
I assume they could do a tune and some performance uppers but that's never been their game.
It's always been about a quality product. Consistency is their game. That's why they're appreciated and have repeat business.
It's always been about a quality product. Consistency is their game. That's why they're appreciated and have repeat business.
May be a case of Lexus US finding a loophole from covering it since they don't officially market TRD anything even if the parts fit.
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
I almost bought a reggo cab S/C Tundra from a tech in Florida.
Completely dynomat'd, I mean he loved this truck.
Had slips in the 12s. Bananas!
I chickened out.
Completely dynomat'd, I mean he loved this truck.
Had slips in the 12s. Bananas!
I chickened out.
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
This guy! He really had a sweet Tundra.. and this is it!
Sold it for 25k
Sold it for 25k
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Supercharged Tundra
One day I'll have a full-size truck. As much as I would love a Denali HD with the Duramax to tune and such, I would be content with a loaded Tundra. They ride extremely well.
One day I'll have a full-size truck. As much as I would love a Denali HD with the Duramax to tune and such, I would be content with a loaded Tundra. They ride extremely well.
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Moderator
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
but the headgasket!
A turbo + truck == bliss
A turbo + truck == bliss
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
The following 5 users liked this post by srika:
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Team Owner
Someone should hire him as part of their marketing team...
My first car was 1997 Avalon XLS..... i could talk so much shit about it.... but it was reliable AF.... There is no debate on that.
My first car was 1997 Avalon XLS..... i could talk so much shit about it.... but it was reliable AF.... There is no debate on that.
Team Owner
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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A guy at my school was from Kentucky had a 1G Avalon. He put my friend in a chokehold once. Would not buy.
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Do you mean some hick moved to Canada and tried to sell his Avalon to you, but because he kicked your friend's ass, you didn't consider purchasing it?