I don't even know where to begin about false advertisement from Infiniti....

Anyways, I still drive my trusty 2001 CL-S on the highways each week for work, while a couple months ago, my gf got her CL-S totaled by some chick who hit her head on.

So after weeks of searching, we decide upon a 2004 G35X as a nice safe car for highway driving. I am so pissed... Keep reading.


Yesterday we are leaving Pittsburgh, PA heading east on the PA turnpike. About an hour into our trip the road goes from 2 to 3 lanes going uphill. The third lane is a truck lane. I am leading in my CL-S and only going about 60mph, the roads weren't that bad, but my CL was doing awesome. Well there is a truck in the right lane going about 30mph so a truck behind him slides into the middle lane to pass, but he is only going about 40mph.

So I lead and go into the left lane and pass the truck at about 60-65mph. My gf is following in her AWD( fuck that) and we are going straight in the left lane after we pass the truck. We are speaking on the cell phone at the time and she starts screaming that she is slipping. I look in my rearview mirror and her car is fishtailing back and forth in her lane. All of a sudden, her vehicle smashes off the concrete median and spins around hitting it again. It then shoots her across all three lanes and she slams off the metal median on the right hand side of the road and she drifts back into traffic. She has the piece of mind to drive off the road to the side.

What a lie about Infinitis Intelligent AWD....

 

I think you may be jumping the gun here about Infiniti. Was she on snow tires? were you? There are many factors that could have played a part in this.

Either way, I hope she wasn't hurt.

 

AWD drive does not make up for bad tires an inexperience when it comes to driving in snow, further, AWD has very limited benefit at speed, the benefit of AWD is to get you going and keep traction. It doesn't matter if you have FWD, RWD or AWD if you panic and hit the brakes you are an inexperienced winter driver and you probably will hit something.

I previously had a TSX with the best winter tire available at the time(studded Nokian Hakkapaeliitta 4's) and the car was fantastic in the snow. I now have a 07 G35x with Nokian's all weather tire and its 90% as good in winter conditions and the tires aren't full snow tires(let alone studded).

 

As Dom said, I hope everything is OK.

My TSX got stuck in the snow the other day. So I wouldn't say that FWD would save the day. It's certainly condition dependent, but when it's icy out and you're on a hill...

Not saying you were driving too fast, but poor weather conditions, you should slow down. No excuse for what happened, but there are many more variables to look at other than FWD vs. AWD. Did she hit a patch of ice that you did not, etc?

 

Luckily she was able to control the fishtail for the initial slide. So it slowed her down to about 45mph before she hit the concrete median the first time. She was shaken up but thank God she was safe.

As for tires I run Bridgestone Turanzas, I love them... She runs Goodyear RS-A's I think, they are only about 4 months old with perfect tread wear and are all season tires.

I understand that dedicated snow tires would have been better, but my CL-S with All season tires didn't have any kind of problem driving the exact same path as she did.

When we travel on the highway, she always is the car behind me, so she always follows in the same path that I do, therefore we experience the same weather situations.

It just scares me that the RWD biased G35x wasn't fast enough to react and make the front wheels as drive wheels.

 

i thought you two were racing.

 

You make valid points, but she is actually a very decent driver. We both travel about 40K miles a year because of our job. My pops always use to make me practice sliding in bad weather and how to handle bad conditions, so I did the same thing with her. Every winter, we go to an empty parking lot and practice what happens if we slide and how to countersteer and not to oversteer, etc etc...

There actually wasn't snow on the road that was visible, there was a small amount of slush in the left lane, but no actual snow. Thats why this was such a shock>>> We weren't even going around a bend when this happened, she was in the same lane as me traveling straight ahead.

The worst feeling in the world was hearing her yell into my headset, "Im slipping"

I look in my rearview mirror and see her rear end fishtailing beyond belief. I see her hit the concrete median and then fly across 3 lanes and misses a semi and car coming up the hill by about 5 feet. Then she hits off the metal barrier near the right lane. Watching it all in my rearview mirror felt like a movie.

We both just don't understand why it happened??? She didn't hit the brakes going up the hill, she wasn't changing lanes, she wasn't turning,,,

It makes no sense why an awd vehicle would do this when plenty of other cars were fine on the same road.

 

Ha, I don't think I would post that. I am pretty sure that I wouldn't get much empathy if this was a racing story and she wrecked. I would have to kick my own ass if I made my gf crash her car.

 

Too many factors in this story to be blaming the G35x. IMO

She was on the phone while losing control of the car.... Sorry but based on that i would tend to say it was driver error for the accident.

AWD will not save everyone, its why we always see big SUVs in ditches.

Either way, im glad she was safe.

 

Hands free headset ming. We aren't dumb, we take precautions when we drive.

Can anyone else verify whether or not an awd car should fishtail like that??

I understand drivers error when she started sliding, maybe a more experienced driver could have pulled out of the slide.

But why did it even start, I keep saying, she wasn't turning, she wasn't braking, she wasn't switching lanes, she wasn't driving with her knees...

 

Yea thats good to hear about the headsets.

Maybe she just was hydroplaning on the slush. She could have gone over too far on the shoulder to hit some that you didnt.

AWD wouldnt help that but her traction control should have kicked in. I would ask a G35 forum and ask them about their AWD systems. I know I havent had any issues like his with my Quattro system. (course mine isnt rwd-biased)

 

Thats what I am wondering about this rwd biased system. So lets assume that she did hit slush that I didn't. Why didn't her vdc kick in, and why would an awd car fishtail so badly? I didn't think rwd biased was going to be a big deal, but now I am second thinking this for bad weather. It seemed like her awd didnt have time to kick in and aid her during the initial slip...

 

Sorry to hear about the accident...

But did you know that people on cell phones (even hands free) are 4 times as likely to get into an accident then someone who isn't... Coincidently, a drunk person (over .08) is 4 times more likely to get into an accident then a sober person... Myth Busters had a drunk vs. phone driver thang... they got better scores when buzzed (just under .08) then when talking to someone on a phone.

AWD, RWD, FWD, ain't gonna help you if you hit ice and panic... one wrong move and you're fucked... you probably got lucky and drove straight over the slippery section of road, and she must have either hit the brakes, gas or steering wheel going thru the slippery section...

I've seen 4x4 SUV's 50 feet off the road, in the treeline, backwards, off the highway many times, and it's usually a combination of overconfindence (I've got awd!!), inexperience, and just going too damn fast for the conditions...

I'm thinking that the cellphone did her in....

 

Im glad everybody is ok. I think you guys may have been going to fast. I remember when I got a 2007 Acura MDX for a loaner. Whenever I floored it, the back end would kickout and it has the SH-AWD. So, with that, I think you guys needed to slow down

 

Ha, earlier in the trip, we got passed by an old lady in a Buick LaSabre. The trucks heading up the hill were the only vehicles that we passed on the entire trip.
Everyone else was passing us for the previous 40 miles of our trip.

 

having a RWD/4WD truck I have found a surefire way to control a fishtail, whether on dry ground, in the rain, or on ice is just to let off the throttle completly, it usually corrects itself almost instantly.

If you put to much power down no matter what you will have slippage. The fishtailing was likely a result of a too rapid increase in power, which can be a normal increase on dry ground.

Even in 4WD I can fish tail the truck, though the entire thing tends to power slide as well.

Mike

 

Exactly. When it snows up in northern CT, you can't believe the number of AWD cars that crash or run off the road due to the fact they think AWD will negate the influence of show. It is an aid, but bad things can always happen.

My friend has a G35x and it works very well in the snow as long as you are very careful. I don't remember my CL-S being very good in the snow at all. I got stuck a few times back when I had it and once had to leave it on the side of the road.

 

If Infiniti's system is so much to blame and considering there are probably more than just ONE G35x driving around on the freeway on the very same day besides your gf's, you'd expect that she probably would have slowed down when she noticed the carcasses of all the other g35x's strewn all over the turnpike near that area.

But seriously, sounds like driver error (or rather driver failing to recover) more than anything else. I'm sure hundreds if not thousands of cars went through that point during that day under similar (or worse) conditions, and i'm sure the cars covered the entire range of FWD, RWD, or AWD and most made it through without any problem.

considering the "corrective" actions required when losing control of a FWD, AWD, or RWD car all differ and that your GF was previously in a FWD car, maybe her reactions were "off".

And VDC/VSA/whatever will NOT save you. I have snow tires on my M45 sport and can do an intentional fishtail in the snow with VDC still on if I want. It won't be as spectacular as if VDC was off (tires spin and slip a little with VDC on, a LOT with it off), but it can be easily done...and i've done it at SLOW speeds (< 25mph) on 1" of snow. Imagine unintentionally fishtailing at higher speeds and not prepared for it. Stability control and AWD help within the bounds of physics, and the nature of these cars are to be "sporty" so they are programmed to have a higher threshold before kicking in.

 

The slush can be nasty, if she got in that with the left wheels it could pull the car in that direction real quickly. Then if she overcompensated she'll start going out of control and AWD won't help much there. There are so many situations to go over, but if she let off the gas, the cars traction control may have not kicked in, if she started to lose control and she floored it, it can sometimes help you in a situation like that to recover instead of just sliding.

 

I own a CL-S, and my father owns a G35. He didn't get the AWD version however we did test drive it. My understanding was that the AWD system is only used from speeds below like 30 and then it goes to a full RWD set up. My dad has taken his car into an empty parking lot covered in snow and tried to get it to do donuts and he said it doesn't let him. He claims that even the RWD G35 is great in the snow..

 

I don't blame the car, I blame the tires.


Having AWD don't mean you're problem free on ice/snow/slush.

 

I just dont understand. What possible error could she have made???? I am just curious what you mean by drivers error. She didn't hit the brakes, we weren't going around a bend, and she didnt floor the car and have it downshift while driving through the slush, and she didn't drive into the piled up slush pushed against the concrete median.

I am just trying to make sense of the situation and why it happened. Whether or not a more experienced driver could have pulled it out of the fishtail is another story. I want to know why it started when all of the variables were fixed... It scares me about Infinitis awd system, or is it possible hers was just acting up.

I am just wondering if its possible with Infinitis system for the AWD activation to be to slow to activate and in essence the car is only RWD at high speeds because the system doesn't work fast enough at highway speeds.

 

I guess im still confused how she spun out just driving in a straight line even if it was RWD.

Anytime i hear stories of that happening is if the car didnt have proper tires. Still betting on her hitting some slush and she hydroplaned somehow.

I think we found your answer. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....del=Eagle+RS-A

Get new tires.

 

Holy Crap, thanks for the link. Those are some HORRIBLE ratings, this might explain the sudden lose of control. I mean, we were driving in a straight line and the lane wasn't snow covered but there were small patches of slush like you said. So most likely she did slide on slush in the lane, but going in a straight line I still cant see why it slid out.

What is terrible is that these had perfect treadwear and are OEM tires for the Infiniti.

I can't believe how bad those ratings are. Thats unbelieveable...... They were like $800 tires after everything was said and done... Now things are starting to make sense.

 

RWD car with snow tires > AWD with 3 seasons

Taking it easy on bad roads > Speeding


That is all

 

you're not alone. acura doesn't exactly supply the tsx with recommended tires either:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....=Pilot+HX+MXM4

one winter in them, and i hated them. vowed to get snows this past november.

the michelins were safe enough for me last winter, as i didn't really drive often. however, i just couldn't stand the slipping even on slightly wet roads.

 

subaru and audi awd > all

 

quattro and symmetric awd. i envy them during winter.

isn't G35X's AWD system is based on ATTESSA? rear wheel based awd. if i remember correctly some magazines stated that they tend to fishtail in slippery condition because ATTESSA is rear wheel based. same goes for FX35/45.

 

AWD does not compensate for women drivers or bad tires.

 

So true, but the reason that we both thought the infiniti would be nicer than either the subbie or the audit is the sporty factor. Those are all time awd which is not really needed in all circumstances.

So with the rwd biased, it would give the car the sporty feel and still have the safety of awd. I am starting to second think this system after what happened on Sunday. I just don't think the system could react fast enough for the conditions, unlike the subaru or audi system because they are alltime awd.

 

I said "driver error (or rather driver failing to recover) more than anything else."

you are making some bad assumptions considering you were in a separate cars at the time.

How do you know she didn't accelerate it just enough for it to downshift? how do you know she didn't touch the brakes? how do you know she hit the EXACT same spot you did, which is virtually impossible? How do you know she didn't adjust the temperature setting or take her eyes off the road for a split second at that spot? I doubt she'd remember every exact detail, especially considering you two were conversing on the phone at the time.

it may not have been any driver error that caused it, but it was just failing to recover. You may have had a slight slip and you let off the gas instinctively just a little without even realizing it. Or when you rode over the spot, you rode over the slush and cleared the ice underneath whcih is what she slipped on.

like i said before, i'm sure hundreds if not thousands of FWD, RWD, and AWD cars went through there, and a couple other G35x's were in the mix, and none of them had a problem at that exact spot. So it is very unlikely it has anything to do with the car or its AWD system and more likely driver error or failure to recover.

 

I hope you rethink what the advantages of AWD is for instead, because I'm sure there were hundreds of RWD cars that passed through that point with no problem. AWD's main advantage is for traction and not getting stuck in snow, not moderate or faster speed driving.

But this is america, so of course you can always blame something or someone else no matter how unlikely it is as the cause.

 

My TSX with snow tires is much better in most situations than my full time 4 wheel drive V8 4Runner with all seasons.

 

Infinitis awd system is inferior in terms of snow/rain driving, it is superior in terms of sports car feel. Infinitis AWD system is flawed at high speeds when driving in bad weather conditions. When compared to Subbies and Audi who don't rely on a system to engage AWD when slippage is noticed.

I never once said awd makes snow driving plain and simple, I am just stating that Infiniti's system is flawed and that even if she slipped a little, most fwd cars would not have responded the way her car did during the fishtail.


In addition, it seems the oem RS-A tires are of poor quality for snow driving and this could have been a factor.

 

damn, note to self: Eagls RS-A's suck for any weather other than dry! glad she was ok!

 

If she hit the brakes the car will fishtail light that. Any car would.

 

I'm glad no one was really hurt but barring any sudden movements on her part, and reading in detail your description of the event, I am leaning towards poor tires being the main culprit but also the rear wheel bias configuration of the Infinity playing a major part. I'm sure there will be many that dismiss my post but here goes.

Based on what he was describing, the car was either maintaining speed or accelerating prior to slippage(remember my theory is barring any abrupt maneuvers by the driver) and in the G35 that rear bias could potentially be more harm than good. Rear bias cars fall somewhere in between rear-wheel and awd cars. It takes the benefits of of both systems and incorporates them into one but most likely not outperforming any of them on which they were designed. She would have had a "better" chance in a front or evenly biased AWD system.

I did a write-up for Tuningwerks magazine awhile back reagarding AWD systems that didn't hit print for other reasons but not AWD systems are created equal. The comparison featured systems from BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Volvo, Lexus, Nissan, VW, Porsche, and Lamborghini. The conclusion was that the Audi Quattro was the most beneficial when traction was demanded most, in poor to extremely poor conditions. Front and rear bias AWD systems in essence only have the lesser torque axle assisting the main axle in moments of need. Quattro's torque sensing systems evenly divides the power to both axles prior to slippage thus requiring less time to send power to an axle which in this case the rear lost traction first. The computers processing(although near instantaneous, it's still on demand) still isn't fast enough when factoring in each rotation of the wheels on the road before power is sent to the axle with traction. It gets complicated describing the whole physics involved but I am not saying Audi is the best car in the world so go out and buy it. As of now they are front heavy as well as heavy overall and inefficient.

Here is an extreme article that is a fun read, comparing some luxury sedans and a Zamboni accelerating on an ice rink!

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05259/572879.stm

 

Oh yeah I forgot, the mechanical AWD systems in the real world work better than electrical ones.

 

I never needed winter tires since I had so much exp on snow. Mine is a FWD which helps alot.

 

You obviously know your cars.... I was starting to think I was crazy when no one was agreeing that I said the rwd biased infiniti system is flawed for inclimate weather at high speeds. (i.e over 40mph)

I completely agree with your conclusion that the poor tires caused her to begin a slide that for her was unrecoverable. Like I said many times, she did not make any abrupt movements, but it is possible the car downshifted on its own going up the mountain and this caused a sudden torque sent to the wheels.


I am going to read that article and send it to my girlfriend. Thanks again for clearing things up and giving such indepth detail......