Snow tires are a must.

awd + snow tires =

my evo is unstoppable with snow tires and active center diff, on my stock yokohamas its like playing russian roulette.

 

Actually the Honda/Acura SH-AWD > all

But the 2nd best would be the Altessa AWD in the G35/Skyline then Quattro.

Quattro is old and out dated.

 

Is that different than what is offered in the G35x in the states?

If not then read ironviet post because he makes some great points other than just saying something is outdated.

 

i hope she's okay

 

I'd beg to differ with you on this if we are referring to the original post of traction loss in poor weather conditons. Although quattro has been around for years, it has evolved over the years under the same name. The old locking engagement type which I'm assuming you referring to as outdated is no longer the current quattro. The current Torsen one is based on a center differential consisting of many worm gears that operate as a pro-active AWD system.

Both of your rankings of best AWD system are great and have tons of features that make it work well but more in theory but in different conditions such as dry weather where they perform better. Honda/Acura's SH-AWD is great because it can transfer 100% of the torque to a corner or to a side as well. Don't fall too much for the hype in marketing though. Their claims of transferring power to the outside wheels will make it turn in better like a rear wheel car but still performs short of it. I had a '98 Prelude SH when Honda's claim that the SH would compensate the FWD's understeer more neutral feeling but that was not the case. In this kind of weather, the SH-AWD, Attesa, and the majority out there are more reactive systems that engage the system when slippage is detected. Subaru and Audi's are not reactive to that extent because power is evenly distributed at all times prior to slippage. Bar none the viscous coupling of the Subaru and torsen of Audi are as close to being proactive as a system can be. They are also the 2 that have been in the AWD game made for production the longest. Besides being the best in foul weather the drawbacks of these systems are the reasons why so many other companies have developed the reactive systems.

Audi systems are expensive, heavy, and inefficient overall during normal driving conditions. If you go test drive or have an Audi you will know that when you release the accelerator the vehicle speed slows down a bit faster than the other drivetrains. There is a lot of friction caused by this system which is evident by the 2-5 mpg less compared to other drivetrains with similar engine displacement and output. In essence the Audi also has 3 differentials (1 for each axle, and a center).
Each of which is very intricate and compact in it's design making it expensive to put together and maintain. These are the main reasons why this is not the trend in AWD's even though they offer the best traction.

So so far to my knowledge I have yet to read an article that disputes Audi's Quattro as being the best system for bad weather.

Here is a link to a video pitting Volvo, Nissan, BMW, Toyota, and Audi cars going up a ski hill. See who actually makes it up! It's pretty unbiased as it seems to be a news channel doing the comparison. I also apologize for the long response which isn't intended to offend anyone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyKstZ6a5ag

 

Making a few runs in snow tires the completed the run in studded tires, there were no special effects in this ad making. The only thing else that was there were the safety cables which did not assist whatsoever.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...583&q=audi+ski

 

I don't quite understand how you made this assumption. I am not talking about only dry pavement driving. I mean overall reliability in all driving conditions. (i.e, wet, dry, snow, ice)

After seeing what I saw, there is noway I can agree with your above comment. Maybe you are talking in terms of technology and how Infiniti's system is more efficent because it isnt awd when it doesnt need to be and drives like a true rwd vehicle. That is the only positive that I can think of with Infiniti's system.

 

It is the same system as in the GTR. The Quattro system is outdated. That is why they are coming out with a new Quattro system that will match the performance of the SH-AWD.

Here is a full explanation of it:

The system is Nissan's excellent full-time ATTESA E-TS all-wheel-drive system. With a rear-drive bias, driveline torque is constantly proportioned to the wheels which need it most (up to 50% can be proportioned to the front wheels). For the nasty stuff, a switch-activated "Snow" mode equally proportions power between the front and rear wheels during initial acceleration. While in this "Snow" mode, the vehicle will transition back to dynamic torque proportioning once speeds increase, indicating traction (or something resembling traction) has returned. As an additional enhancement to grip, this advanced AWD system works in conjunction with the Traction Control System (TCS) and Infiniti Vehicle Dynamic Control (VDC) to further enhance safety and control.

 

Well I owned a A4 1.8t Quattro, and I also now have a RL, and can tell the difference in the wet weather how the systems work, IMHO the RL is more confident for sprinted driving in wet conditions compared to the A4 quattro because it pushes you in the turns so it keeps you from just sliding out which Quattro will not do.

There were tests out there I have seen in the past that showed the Quattro getting beat by the SH-AWD and Nissan Altessa.

 

Altessa AWD explanation above. And in technology its better.

RL AWD is better in the snow because it can push you in the turns to help the car manuver better. Common sense.

 

Let us know how that goes. Again AWD doesnt make someone unstoppable. But i guess SH-AWD is perfect and nothing can touch it since you now own a RL.

Also not sure why you think only the RL pushes you through turns, most if not all AWD systems do that. But again, someone from texas should tell us more on which system is better to drive in the snow.

With that said, it doesnt snow enough for me to care. I rather have RWD or RWD-biased awd since most of my driving is either on dry or wet (rain) pavement.

RWD for sprinted driving FTW!

 

AWD, RWD or FWD. If the car lost traction in these types of conditions its the driver,

A. either driving to fast for conditions,
B. not having complete control of the car.

There are many things that could have influenced this accident, but blaming it on Infinitys AWD system shouldnt be one of them. How many RWD cars/trucks went thru that same area with out issue? Maybe id quit blaming the car and just be happy that your GF is ok.

 

did she have snow mode on in the g?


Under normal highway driving, almost all the torque goes to the rear wheels. Pushing the "snow" button on the console will set torque distribution at 50/50.


It also decreases throttle sensitivity tremendously and helps prevent extra downshifts.... the car does have some juice to it for being a sedan and all

 

Quattro or other AWD systems to not push you through a turn like the SH-AWD. You might want to study up on how that system works. If your taking a hard right turn with the gas going, the back left tire will push the car through that turn up to 100% power to make the car turn faster but also keep it stable and not putting as much pressure down on the front left tire. Reason why the RL handles as good as the NSX.

I could start saying the same thing about your Audi and Quattro since you own it. So lets keep the attacks out of it.

 

I havent even mentioned anything about the quattro system being the best or anything.

 

In a way you have in your posts. lol

 

I remember seeing that one when I had my Audi. Tires make the difference, not the AWD system completely. The first video you posted, if all the cars had the same tires and size, then I would have liked to see the results then. But they didn't.

 

+1

From what I have read in this thread, it's quite clear that it was driver related. You can't even blame it on the RS-As (even though they are a poor tire), since countless other people went through the same area without any issues. Sorry bro, but Infiniti's ATTESA isn't at fault here.

 

Snow mode on the G35x is only operable up to 12 Mph.

 

I am pretty sure that is not true...

 

Sorry dude, but it IS true. Just do some research and you'll see. :wink:

 

Maybe you shouldnt be going fucking 65 in the snow and talking on the phone at the same time in inclement weather, asshole. Once a car is going that speed and begins to slip in the snow AWD or not, your toast. Next time stay behind the truck doing 30, and someone won't end up slamming into a concrete barrier.

 

is driving the car in snow mode over 12mph research?

 

Huh, what does that even mean?

 

provides 50-50 torque distribution to help avoid wheel spin for smooth starts at speeds up to 12 mph. Above that, the central computer processing system takes over again, continually monitoring traction conditions and changing the torque distribution as needed.

The reduced throttle also stays in effect regardless, I wouldn't consider that as the snow mode only working to 12mph

 

It means I (me) own the car and have driven (made the wheels go turny turny) over pavement at speeds greater than 12 (twelve, one-two) miles an hour (60 minutes)

And it still works. Clearer? (should i spray some windex for you?)

 

The Snow mode switch provides a 50/50 torque split up to 12mph for snow and ice launches.....that is the only time Snow Mode is engaged. It's meant for low speed launches only!

 

Good info about AWD systems read here...

https://acurazine.com/forums/archive...php/t-160.html

And a snip from the link.

Let's compare...

SH-AWD : FWD bias during regular driving. 70/30 front rear power split. Capable of 30/70 split under certain conditions and capable of actively sending all of the power in the rear to either wheel during hard cornering.

Quattro: FWD bias during regular driving, rear differential is not always engaged. When the front wheels begin to lose traction, powerful is diverted from the the front to the rear via a Haldex differential. 4MOTION on the VWs is the same thing. Maximum of 50% power transfer to the rear.

4Matic: All-time AWD system with 50/50 (I think this is right?) split. Capable of transferring power forward or backward depending on traction with up to a maximum of between 60-70% at either axle at any time.

X-Drive: RWD biased with 35/65 power distribution. Capable of transferring power forward when rear loses traction. Maximum of 50/50 split.

ATTESSA-ETS: RWD bias (or fwd depending on application, but let's assume the G35x for now). 100% power to rear except when traction lost. Maximum of 50/50 split. Capable of actively transferring power between front and rear axles.

So essentially, the SH-AWD takes the ATTESSA-ETS system one step farther by using an active rear differential. Many of the AWD systems simply split power between front and rear with an open differential between the left and right wheels. SH-AWD uses an open differential up front, but an active differential in the rear with an active differential connected to the transmission to allow the power to be routed depending on the computer's sensor inputs.

 

From the manual:

For driving or starting the vehicle on
snowy roads or slippery areas, push the
SNOW mode switch to the ON position
and then the indicator light in the switch
and the SNOW indicator light in the instrument
panel will illuminate.
When the SNOW mode is activated, engine
output is controlled to reduce wheel
spin.

The 12mph rule may be for the torque lock, but the snow mode consists of more, either way it didn't seem to help in this case if it was on.

 

I know exactly what the manual states, I have a G35. Anyways, if that's how you think Snow Mode works, that's cool.

 

1) It's 20 mph

2) The throttle response is still active with the snow button on.

From G35Driver:

http://g35driver.com/forums/showpost...9&postcount=12

The system works like this:

From a start- 75% of the power goes to the rear - 25% of the power is directed at the front wheels.

At about 20mph, the car reverts to 100% RWD, unless slip is detected.

It is possible to lock the diff using the snow button- A 50/50 split by pressing the activating this mode. This split stays active until 20mph when the system again goes into active mode applying power to the wheels that need it, etc.
Additionally, and perhaps more importantly, this mode changes the throttle mapping to a mode that is less aggressive in nature.

How does it work in practice. Fairly seemless actually. Impressive. It's really a RWD car, however when you are in snow, the system is hyper active yet very gentile in terms of how power is applied. Not sudden, rather it seemlingly rolls power on. Works very effectively.

In comparison to the Torsen equipped Audis, I'd say this system is more fun. It doesn't feel like it's sapping power as is the case with the Audis. Overall, I'd say the Audi is probably the better proposition if you live in the upper penninsula of Michigan. However, I wanted a part time 4WD system that was performance oriented. That and the G had a ton more power than any Audi short of the S4, and it was an easy decision to make.

A typical use case for me is a Tahoe trip- 225miles.
I'll start out in the Bay where we don't get snow. End up in Tahoe where you can get feet of snow. After skiing one day, when it had snowed all day, my car was buried in about 1-foot of fresh. I was able to bust through without a problem. That's when I was sold.


This is a similar system to that which was used in the Skyline GT-R- Though there are some differences.

In terms of the differences between the RWD G and the AWD G, I can only speak to the current 06 and older model.

 

I hate to be anal about the details, but it is 12 mph (20kmph). But yes, it provides 50% traction to front and 50% rear at 12 mph and below and also cuts back on throttle if slip is detetected. If the snow button is engaged and you go above these speeds the regular ATTESSA AWD comes into play.

 

this is why i usually stay in ramblings

i knew better but i got sucked in, enjoy fellas!

 

You could have at least corrected the info and show that only the TT has the Haldex differential where as the other Quattro systems have the Torsen, which isnt FWD biased. It's 50/50 split.

Since you had an A4, you should know that.

 

LOL, I know the feeling about being sucked in. :wink: I guess I just don't like seeing inaccurate info posted......kind of a pet peeve I guess. My apologies if I came off the wrong way.

 

You guys are doing 60-65 in the snow and you girl crashes then you blame the car...... I think you need to pull your head out and learn how to drive.

You are lucky that you girl didn't get hurt following your dumb ass.

60-65 in ther snow =

 

hmmm... hi tech awd systems like SH-AWD and ATTESSA are all good but sometimes computers and sensors cannot detect all road conditions. also when computers do detect slippage, reaction time is a bit too late. this is why ATTESSA isn't rated that good on snowy roads. even car&driver tested various awd systems and ATTESSA didn't perform as expected.

 

Man I was trying to be nice but don't going implying that people are fools. For one I love your comparison between an Audi 1.8t which has what, 170 hp. Did you even have the sport package? An RL is in another league in your comparison. Most of your arguments are in wet or dry conditions anyways. I guess Texas doesn't get much snow so SH-AWD or other reactive systems are more than enough for you. Attesa and SH-AWD are similar to an extent differing in that the Acura can send 100% torque to a single wheel. The Attesa after that is almost just a backwards SH-AWD in a sense that instead of the car being front bias it is not rear bias which in handling is the better layout.

So anyways if you think that synopsis is in fact true, then you should check your facts before telling others too. I will tell you one thing for sure that whoever wrote those facts are straight out wrong. The quattro the link is referring to is the Haldex system although still under the companies AWD system name. Haldex is front bias for transverse mounted engines in Audi ie. TT, and A3. The rest is Torsen. Audi is heading towards the 40/60 split because they are trying to neutralize the handling characteristics. FWD cars understeer a lot, 50/50 AWD understeer slightly less, RWD actually oversteer in during quick turn ins, because of these laws of physics, the RWD platform is preferred for the pure driving experience. This whole thread is referring to ice/snow/sleet/ slush conditions not best dry performing AWD system. Both Attesa and Quattro are proven thoroughbred winners but I can't say that for SH-AWD. In the real world the condition in which you have no traction in 3 tires and demand the one tire to do 100% of the work to keep you going, you would be already heading for disaster worst than debating which system is better.

 

my point exactly!

 

Now although this is still subjective, I totally agree with you that the driving experience is not as exhilirating and power does get zapped (reason why I stated it was inefficient).