Future of Acura line-up
12-22-2004, 11:53 PM
#1
I'm the Firestarter
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Future of Acura line-up
So I was driving being a 3.2TL Type-S the other day, and it got me thinking... Given the very low numbers of Acura owners who say they will buy another Acura (we had a thread on that earlier), someone suggested that car makers like BMW offer an owner way more options to stay in the brand. Acura just doesn't.
So what would it take for a person like me to stay in the brand? Well, I don't want a TL, too big. I don't want an RL, too big, too expensive, and frankly it seems geared towards older people.
What it would take for me is kind of like the 325i -> 330i -> M3 progression, and BMW also has various sport packages available to make sure that if you've got the money to spend, they've got something to sell you.
It's just not true that people who have more money to spend than a TSX costs will automatically look at a TL. I for one would love to get a car that looks and feels just like the TSX, but with "more".
Some people say there will not be a Type-S... well, then Acura will stay a smaller player, because they just won't be giving its customers what they want. To me it would make complete sense to at least offer two engines on the TSX. And let people add A-Spec parts to either one (and in Canada too, for F's sake).
So what would it take for a person like me to stay in the brand? Well, I don't want a TL, too big. I don't want an RL, too big, too expensive, and frankly it seems geared towards older people.
What it would take for me is kind of like the 325i -> 330i -> M3 progression, and BMW also has various sport packages available to make sure that if you've got the money to spend, they've got something to sell you.
It's just not true that people who have more money to spend than a TSX costs will automatically look at a TL. I for one would love to get a car that looks and feels just like the TSX, but with "more".
Some people say there will not be a Type-S... well, then Acura will stay a smaller player, because they just won't be giving its customers what they want. To me it would make complete sense to at least offer two engines on the TSX. And let people add A-Spec parts to either one (and in Canada too, for F's sake).
12-23-2004, 12:18 AM
#2
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just buy a tsx and fix it up, it's like adding additional options but better! because you get to add better aftermarket parts of your own choosing ^^ of course it takes a lil more work and research than just buying options from a dealer.... but at least you won't get ripped off paying ridiculous amounts for factory options =P
I also know alot of people who rebuy acura's... I'll give you an example, my family! ^^
My sister - 2001 integra
me - 2004 TSX
mom - 2005 MDX
LOL, there are many acura families out there
I also know alot of people who rebuy acura's... I'll give you an example, my family! ^^
My sister - 2001 integra
me - 2004 TSX
mom - 2005 MDX
LOL, there are many acura families out there
12-23-2004, 01:03 AM
#3
I prefer the Acura way. Shoe horning an 8-cylinder into a 3-Series is fine, but a 2.5L in a 5-Series just doesn't seem right to me. Now if only Acura would expand...
TSX > TL > RL > ???
RSX > CL > ??? > NSX
RDX > MDX > ???
Plenty of space for improvement.
TSX > TL > RL > ???
RSX > CL > ??? > NSX
RDX > MDX > ???
Plenty of space for improvement.
12-23-2004, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Belzebutt
...well, then Acura will stay a smaller player, because they just won't be giving its customers what they want...
I understand the logic, too. When I spend more money on a vehicle, I'd expect more features, more power, and more space. That's why vehicles like the M3, S4, and C32 don't really tug at my heart. I personally would rather have a comparably priced 5-series, A6, or E-class instead. The small, super-horsepower, compact luxo-cars cater to a small, enthusiast audience. Acura is in a position where they must cater to the largest audience possible. For Acura to cater to an enthusiast audience, they must gain the respect of the majority first.
Further, more engine choices (or options, for that matter) = more production costs = less profit. And it's not the Acura way. Sure, Acura has offered more than one DISTINCT engine choice on the Vigor and first generation TL, but those were the Acura "dark ages". Why mess with success at this point? If Acura is having no problem, whatsoever, selling thousands of TSXs, TLs, MDXs, and soon to be, RLs, why offer more engines at this point? I'd almost gauruntee that Acura has done some market research on whether engine choices would be profitable for Acura.
IMHO, Acura is on the right track as of now. They have their model lineup figured out; RSX owners can graduate to the TSX, TSX owners can (and it has been proven that they do) graduate to the TL, and as of now, TL owners can graduate to the RL. Acura has finally produced a halo sedan that RSX, TSX, and TL owners aspire to own someday--sure it's not for everyone, but check out all of the praise on these boards for the TL and RL.
I'd say Acura is doing something right.
12-23-2004, 02:01 AM
#5
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Acura has never been about much choice - especially now days - they are a take it or leave it kind of company. As long as that formula works they'll keep to it. The only problem I see is that if that formula starts to fail it will take some time for them to turn things around.
12-23-2004, 08:06 AM
#6
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Thread Starter
I'm not even talking about an M3. If they just had a 250 hp TSX with some nice manu-matic transmission options I would rather buy that than a TL. I know I'm in the minority and for most the 2.4 L is ok...
12-23-2004, 08:12 AM
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I'd buy another Acura, unless I fell in the $40k plus category. Then the RL or NSX would not be an option for me. Ther eare too many other cars out there to get that offer more luxury with a better name. The NSX would be a prime choice for a sports car except for the fact that the interior is from the early 90's... However if I had some extra $$$ laying out for another car the TL would be a good bet.
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12-23-2004, 08:36 AM
#8
Here are my thoughts on how Acura should develop their line-up...
1) Bring back the CL, but built on a RWD platform (something like a stretched and widened S2000 chassis) and put the 270-hp 3.2L V6 in as the standard powerplant. Ensure that the car does not exceed 3300 lbs. in weight in hardtop form and offer it with 6MT standard and a no-cost optional automatic tranny. The car should perform in the area of the CLK500 but eat the much heavier car for lunch on the track. This should be priced $2k-$3k higher than a TL.
2) Offer an SH-AWD on the TL with both transmissions.
3) Develop a V8 engine for a new high-end luxury car (possible named GL or something similar) that would produce in the neighborhood of 400-hp and 375 lb-ft of torque. This engine would be oversquare, but could be tooled to develop 480-hp and 320 lb-ft of torque for a new NSX successor.
4) Said high-end luxury car with all the trimmings and the size of the A8, S-class, and 7-series, but with class leading value, luxury, performance, and technology. Should maintain the family face, and, of course, come with SH-AWD as standard equipment.
5) NSX successor as a halo car. Don't fiddle with the price, just up the performance of the car. Mid-engine, RWD, double-wishbone suspension, 480 hp/320 lb-ft. NA V8 engine. Hand-built in Japan.
6) Bring back the I5 motor in a 3.0L layout to produce 240 hp and 200 lb-ft of torque.
7) Drop the RSX or take it upscale and make it into a TSX coupe. Offer identical engine offerings in both cars and similar interior trim. Coupe should be offered with the current A-Spec suspension package as standard equipment. Should be offered with the 2.4L I4 as standard equipment with the aforementioned 3.0L 240 hp I5 as an option. Offer an AWD option. Widen the TSX chassis to allow the accomodation of the wider I5 motor, which will incidentally widen the track and should further improve handling and interior space by a bit (style the body to incorporate stronger and more prominent fender flares).
8) Re-tool the entire A-Spec concept to include even more performance oriented suspension pieces and offer it in 2 stages. Stage 1 will be suspension only and can be added to any vehicle. Stage 2 will be by custom order only and be equivalent to an M or an S or an AMG. Suspension, wheels, tires, and uprated engines (through FI if necessary, though NA is preferred).
Those are my thoughts. Distill the company back to its essence of strong sporty, NA cars that are great handling.
1) Bring back the CL, but built on a RWD platform (something like a stretched and widened S2000 chassis) and put the 270-hp 3.2L V6 in as the standard powerplant. Ensure that the car does not exceed 3300 lbs. in weight in hardtop form and offer it with 6MT standard and a no-cost optional automatic tranny. The car should perform in the area of the CLK500 but eat the much heavier car for lunch on the track. This should be priced $2k-$3k higher than a TL.
2) Offer an SH-AWD on the TL with both transmissions.
3) Develop a V8 engine for a new high-end luxury car (possible named GL or something similar) that would produce in the neighborhood of 400-hp and 375 lb-ft of torque. This engine would be oversquare, but could be tooled to develop 480-hp and 320 lb-ft of torque for a new NSX successor.
4) Said high-end luxury car with all the trimmings and the size of the A8, S-class, and 7-series, but with class leading value, luxury, performance, and technology. Should maintain the family face, and, of course, come with SH-AWD as standard equipment.
5) NSX successor as a halo car. Don't fiddle with the price, just up the performance of the car. Mid-engine, RWD, double-wishbone suspension, 480 hp/320 lb-ft. NA V8 engine. Hand-built in Japan.
6) Bring back the I5 motor in a 3.0L layout to produce 240 hp and 200 lb-ft of torque.
7) Drop the RSX or take it upscale and make it into a TSX coupe. Offer identical engine offerings in both cars and similar interior trim. Coupe should be offered with the current A-Spec suspension package as standard equipment. Should be offered with the 2.4L I4 as standard equipment with the aforementioned 3.0L 240 hp I5 as an option. Offer an AWD option. Widen the TSX chassis to allow the accomodation of the wider I5 motor, which will incidentally widen the track and should further improve handling and interior space by a bit (style the body to incorporate stronger and more prominent fender flares).
8) Re-tool the entire A-Spec concept to include even more performance oriented suspension pieces and offer it in 2 stages. Stage 1 will be suspension only and can be added to any vehicle. Stage 2 will be by custom order only and be equivalent to an M or an S or an AMG. Suspension, wheels, tires, and uprated engines (through FI if necessary, though NA is preferred).
Those are my thoughts. Distill the company back to its essence of strong sporty, NA cars that are great handling.
12-23-2004, 11:09 AM
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I agree that they need another model. The RL is too expensive bad in fuel-inefficiency a for daily driving commuter; and the TL doesn't offer anything new to distinguish it as a good step up from the TSX. My new car is likely to be from a different brand.
12-23-2004, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
Here are my thoughts on how Acura should develop their line-up...
1) Bring back the CL, but built on a RWD platform (something like a stretched and widened S2000 chassis) and put the 270-hp 3.2L V6 in as the standard powerplant. Ensure that the car does not exceed 3300 lbs. in weight in hardtop form and offer it with 6MT standard and a no-cost optional automatic tranny. The car should perform in the area of the CLK500 but eat the much heavier car for lunch on the track. This should be priced $2k-$3k higher than a TL.
2) Offer an SH-AWD on the TL with both transmissions.
3) Develop a V8 engine for a new high-end luxury car (possible named GL or something similar) that would produce in the neighborhood of 400-hp and 375 lb-ft of torque. This engine would be oversquare, but could be tooled to develop 480-hp and 320 lb-ft of torque for a new NSX successor.
4) Said high-end luxury car with all the trimmings and the size of the A8, S-class, and 7-series, but with class leading value, luxury, performance, and technology. Should maintain the family face, and, of course, come with SH-AWD as standard equipment.
5) NSX successor as a halo car. Don't fiddle with the price, just up the performance of the car. Mid-engine, RWD, double-wishbone suspension, 480 hp/320 lb-ft. NA V8 engine. Hand-built in Japan.
6) Bring back the I5 motor in a 3.0L layout to produce 240 hp and 200 lb-ft of torque.
7) Drop the RSX or take it upscale and make it into a TSX coupe. Offer identical engine offerings in both cars and similar interior trim. Coupe should be offered with the current A-Spec suspension package as standard equipment. Should be offered with the 2.4L I4 as standard equipment with the aforementioned 3.0L 240 hp I5 as an option. Offer an AWD option. Widen the TSX chassis to allow the accomodation of the wider I5 motor, which will incidentally widen the track and should further improve handling and interior space by a bit (style the body to incorporate stronger and more prominent fender flares).
8) Re-tool the entire A-Spec concept to include even more performance oriented suspension pieces and offer it in 2 stages. Stage 1 will be suspension only and can be added to any vehicle. Stage 2 will be by custom order only and be equivalent to an M or an S or an AMG. Suspension, wheels, tires, and uprated engines (through FI if necessary, though NA is preferred).
Those are my thoughts. Distill the company back to its essence of strong sporty, NA cars that are great handling.
1) Bring back the CL, but built on a RWD platform (something like a stretched and widened S2000 chassis) and put the 270-hp 3.2L V6 in as the standard powerplant. Ensure that the car does not exceed 3300 lbs. in weight in hardtop form and offer it with 6MT standard and a no-cost optional automatic tranny. The car should perform in the area of the CLK500 but eat the much heavier car for lunch on the track. This should be priced $2k-$3k higher than a TL.
2) Offer an SH-AWD on the TL with both transmissions.
3) Develop a V8 engine for a new high-end luxury car (possible named GL or something similar) that would produce in the neighborhood of 400-hp and 375 lb-ft of torque. This engine would be oversquare, but could be tooled to develop 480-hp and 320 lb-ft of torque for a new NSX successor.
4) Said high-end luxury car with all the trimmings and the size of the A8, S-class, and 7-series, but with class leading value, luxury, performance, and technology. Should maintain the family face, and, of course, come with SH-AWD as standard equipment.
5) NSX successor as a halo car. Don't fiddle with the price, just up the performance of the car. Mid-engine, RWD, double-wishbone suspension, 480 hp/320 lb-ft. NA V8 engine. Hand-built in Japan.
6) Bring back the I5 motor in a 3.0L layout to produce 240 hp and 200 lb-ft of torque.
7) Drop the RSX or take it upscale and make it into a TSX coupe. Offer identical engine offerings in both cars and similar interior trim. Coupe should be offered with the current A-Spec suspension package as standard equipment. Should be offered with the 2.4L I4 as standard equipment with the aforementioned 3.0L 240 hp I5 as an option. Offer an AWD option. Widen the TSX chassis to allow the accomodation of the wider I5 motor, which will incidentally widen the track and should further improve handling and interior space by a bit (style the body to incorporate stronger and more prominent fender flares).
8) Re-tool the entire A-Spec concept to include even more performance oriented suspension pieces and offer it in 2 stages. Stage 1 will be suspension only and can be added to any vehicle. Stage 2 will be by custom order only and be equivalent to an M or an S or an AMG. Suspension, wheels, tires, and uprated engines (through FI if necessary, though NA is preferred).
Those are my thoughts. Distill the company back to its essence of strong sporty, NA cars that are great handling.
you must've thought about this one for a while 
12-23-2004, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
Here are my thoughts on how Acura should develop their line-up...
1) Bring back the CL, but built on a RWD platform (something like a stretched and widened S2000 chassis) and put the 270-hp 3.2L V6 in as the standard powerplant. Ensure that the car does not exceed 3300 lbs. in weight in hardtop form and offer it with 6MT standard and a no-cost optional automatic tranny. The car should perform in the area of the CLK500 but eat the much heavier car for lunch on the track. This should be priced $2k-$3k higher than a TL.
2) Offer an SH-AWD on the TL with both transmissions.
3) Develop a V8 engine for a new high-end luxury car (possible named GL or something similar) that would produce in the neighborhood of 400-hp and 375 lb-ft of torque. This engine would be oversquare, but could be tooled to develop 480-hp and 320 lb-ft of torque for a new NSX successor.
4) Said high-end luxury car with all the trimmings and the size of the A8, S-class, and 7-series, but with class leading value, luxury, performance, and technology. Should maintain the family face, and, of course, come with SH-AWD as standard equipment.
5) NSX successor as a halo car. Don't fiddle with the price, just up the performance of the car. Mid-engine, RWD, double-wishbone suspension, 480 hp/320 lb-ft. NA V8 engine. Hand-built in Japan.
6) Bring back the I5 motor in a 3.0L layout to produce 240 hp and 200 lb-ft of torque.
7) Drop the RSX or take it upscale and make it into a TSX coupe. Offer identical engine offerings in both cars and similar interior trim. Coupe should be offered with the current A-Spec suspension package as standard equipment. Should be offered with the 2.4L I4 as standard equipment with the aforementioned 3.0L 240 hp I5 as an option. Offer an AWD option. Widen the TSX chassis to allow the accomodation of the wider I5 motor, which will incidentally widen the track and should further improve handling and interior space by a bit (style the body to incorporate stronger and more prominent fender flares).
8) Re-tool the entire A-Spec concept to include even more performance oriented suspension pieces and offer it in 2 stages. Stage 1 will be suspension only and can be added to any vehicle. Stage 2 will be by custom order only and be equivalent to an M or an S or an AMG. Suspension, wheels, tires, and uprated engines (through FI if necessary, though NA is preferred).
Those are my thoughts. Distill the company back to its essence of strong sporty, NA cars that are great handling.
1) Bring back the CL, but built on a RWD platform (something like a stretched and widened S2000 chassis) and put the 270-hp 3.2L V6 in as the standard powerplant. Ensure that the car does not exceed 3300 lbs. in weight in hardtop form and offer it with 6MT standard and a no-cost optional automatic tranny. The car should perform in the area of the CLK500 but eat the much heavier car for lunch on the track. This should be priced $2k-$3k higher than a TL.
2) Offer an SH-AWD on the TL with both transmissions.
3) Develop a V8 engine for a new high-end luxury car (possible named GL or something similar) that would produce in the neighborhood of 400-hp and 375 lb-ft of torque. This engine would be oversquare, but could be tooled to develop 480-hp and 320 lb-ft of torque for a new NSX successor.
4) Said high-end luxury car with all the trimmings and the size of the A8, S-class, and 7-series, but with class leading value, luxury, performance, and technology. Should maintain the family face, and, of course, come with SH-AWD as standard equipment.
5) NSX successor as a halo car. Don't fiddle with the price, just up the performance of the car. Mid-engine, RWD, double-wishbone suspension, 480 hp/320 lb-ft. NA V8 engine. Hand-built in Japan.
6) Bring back the I5 motor in a 3.0L layout to produce 240 hp and 200 lb-ft of torque.
7) Drop the RSX or take it upscale and make it into a TSX coupe. Offer identical engine offerings in both cars and similar interior trim. Coupe should be offered with the current A-Spec suspension package as standard equipment. Should be offered with the 2.4L I4 as standard equipment with the aforementioned 3.0L 240 hp I5 as an option. Offer an AWD option. Widen the TSX chassis to allow the accomodation of the wider I5 motor, which will incidentally widen the track and should further improve handling and interior space by a bit (style the body to incorporate stronger and more prominent fender flares).
8) Re-tool the entire A-Spec concept to include even more performance oriented suspension pieces and offer it in 2 stages. Stage 1 will be suspension only and can be added to any vehicle. Stage 2 will be by custom order only and be equivalent to an M or an S or an AMG. Suspension, wheels, tires, and uprated engines (through FI if necessary, though NA is preferred).
Those are my thoughts. Distill the company back to its essence of strong sporty, NA cars that are great handling.
1) The Cl doesn't need rwd to sell, just TL looks, power, and luxury in a 2 door coupe.
2) I think shawd is a little overrated, what exactly is this going to do for the TL, maybe some extra sales but this really isn't going to make it into a rwd 330i fighter. Awd can't offer what rwd does, it just eliminates fwd probs.
3)A v8 was needed for the RL. A v8 was needed for the pilot. A v8 was needed for a performance version of the tsx. I guess if Acura has a v8 for a high end sedan it will be very late as usual.
4)-
5) Money should be invested more wisely in products that actually sell instead of those that don't. Companies that have great cars throughout their lineup don't need halo cars to live up to.
6)-
7)Think thats the plan since Acura has already decreased production. The Rsx will become the cl's replacement as a high 20's coupe.
8)Aspec is a joke. Aspec should be a factory option to continue the value theme, with engine performance, interior upgrades and handling performance ala BMWs pp.
12-23-2004, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by heyitsme
...2) I think shawd is a little overrated, what exactly is this going to do for the TL, maybe some extra sales but this really isn't going to make it into a rwd 330i fighter. Awd can't offer what rwd does, it just eliminates fwd probs...
SH-AWD is the future of Acura, whether you want it to be or not. It REALLY is that good. Have some faith in Honda.
12-23-2004, 11:35 PM
#17
Check out the Road & Track on newstands right now....there's an RL review, and at the end it has those boxes where it compares the RL against the competition. Check out the RL's 1/4 mile and slalom speed vs. the E320 and 530i that it's compared to. I don't remember the actual data, but I do remember the RL ran through it at a higher speed than the other two. The only negative criticism against the RL in this area has been its steering feel...some mags have opined that it's a little vague vs. the BMW. Also, the suspension has been criticized - it does indeed outhandle the BMW, but the BMW still feels more agile, per the auto mags.
12-23-2004, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by heyitsme
...3)A v8 was needed for the RL. A v8 was needed for the pilot. A v8 was needed for a performance version of the tsx. I guess if Acura has a v8 for a high end sedan it will be very late as usual...
A V8 is not the Honda/Acura way. You know it. I know it. We all know it. Acura is pushing 300hp out of a 3.5 liter V6. I'd like to see another 6-cylinder out there that produces that much horsepower without a turbo or supercharger. Honda is capable of juicing even more power and torque out of their 6-cylinders.
Like many have said before, I'd bet there will be a V6 w/ IMA that will give us V8 power numbers. I'd guess that will be Honda's answer to the V8 question that has been asked for so many years. But I'm positive there will still be those who continue to whine about how there's no V8 offered.
12-23-2004, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by phile
Check out the Road & Track on newstands right now....there's an RL review, and at the end it has those boxes where it compares the RL against the competition. Check out the RL's 1/4 mile and slalom speed vs. the E320 and 530i that it's compared to. I don't remember the actual data, but I do remember the RL ran through it at a higher speed than the other two. The only negative criticism against the RL in this area has been its steering feel...some mags have opined that it's a little vague vs. the BMW. Also, the suspension has been criticized - it does indeed outhandle the BMW, but the BMW still feels more agile, per the auto mags.Nice find, phile
12-24-2004, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by SPUDMTN
Acura is pushing 300hp out of a 3.5 liter V6. I'd like to see another 6-cylinder out there that produces that much horsepower without a turbo or supercharger.
12-24-2004, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by SPUDMTN
Acura is pushing 300hp out of a 3.5 liter V6. I'd like to see another 6-cylinder out there that produces that much horsepower without a turbo or supercharger.
12-31-2004, 02:28 PM
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Ive allready pretty much decided that my next car will not be an Acura. Now hear me out... I love my TSX. It is one of the most enjoyable cars ive owned so far.
But.. a few years down the road hopefully I will be making some more coin.. That being said I will agree with Belze, If i can afford more car I will want two things.. RWD or AWD and more power.
The TL is a nice car, but the power is going to the wrong wheels, and well when it comes to the RL, as nice as it is, I'm a 6MT snob I guess. Fewer and fewer cars are offering manual transmissions, and im sure i'll see the option to row my own go away in my lifetime on new cars so I'm buying MT's as long as i can. So.. the RL is out (unless acura decides to make a 6MT RL)
So the only options with more power and a MT come from Infiniti (g35), BMW (new 3 series/5 series) and Audi a4/a6/s4...
I really like the new Cadillac STS, but with all the problems I had with my CTS, I dont know if I'm ready to get another caddy. Plus there is no MT seville.
So i suppose if i wasnt a RWD/6MT snob id have plenty of other options.. BUt since im a
I have to agree with mr butt.
But.. a few years down the road hopefully I will be making some more coin.. That being said I will agree with Belze, If i can afford more car I will want two things.. RWD or AWD and more power.
The TL is a nice car, but the power is going to the wrong wheels, and well when it comes to the RL, as nice as it is, I'm a 6MT snob I guess. Fewer and fewer cars are offering manual transmissions, and im sure i'll see the option to row my own go away in my lifetime on new cars so I'm buying MT's as long as i can. So.. the RL is out (unless acura decides to make a 6MT RL)
So the only options with more power and a MT come from Infiniti (g35), BMW (new 3 series/5 series) and Audi a4/a6/s4...
I really like the new Cadillac STS, but with all the problems I had with my CTS, I dont know if I'm ready to get another caddy. Plus there is no MT seville.
So i suppose if i wasnt a RWD/6MT snob id have plenty of other options.. BUt since im a
I have to agree with mr butt.
12-31-2004, 03:10 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by gfxdave99
So the only options with more power and a MT come from Infiniti (g35), BMW (new 3 series/5 series) and Audi a4/a6/s4...
Biker, who is also a 6MT/RWD snob.
12-31-2004, 06:12 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by biker
IS350
I've got a local Lexus dealership, but no Infiniti nor Acura...
12-31-2004, 07:52 PM
#31
101 years of heartache...
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Location: Chicago's North Side/Champaign, IL
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don't forget, that 3.5L is 1.. built more for comfort than sportiness and 2.. has SOHC. Now, imagine what they can do with a DOHC 3.5L built for pure sport. If we compare the s2000 2.0L to (let's just say an NSX V6), Acura should be able to get 420 HP out of a 3.5L (but it comes with a lack of torque). Honda is going to come out with better engines as soon as they get the whole DOHC V6 thing going.
01-01-2005, 09:00 PM
#32
Safety Car
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Originally Posted by gocubsgo55
don't forget, that 3.5L is 1.. built more for comfort than sportiness and 2.. has SOHC. Now, imagine what they can do with a DOHC 3.5L built for pure sport. If we compare the s2000 2.0L to (let's just say an NSX V6), Acura should be able to get 420 HP out of a 3.5L (but it comes with a lack of torque). Honda is going to come out with better engines as soon as they get the whole DOHC V6 thing going.
01-01-2005, 09:01 PM
#33
6MT Snob
Join Date: Feb 2004
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IS300 + equipped like a tsx + 215hp and only .4 sec faster then a tsx 0-60 + $32,519.00 = not so 
However the new GS430 coming out looks pretty nice...
Too bad it only comes in a 6sp auto...
However the new GS430 coming out looks pretty nice...
Too bad it only comes in a 6sp auto...
01-01-2005, 09:04 PM
#34
Go Giants
Originally Posted by gfxdave99
IS300 + equipped like a tsx + 215hp and only .4 sec faster then a tsx 0-60 + $32,519.00 = not so
However the new GS430 coming out looks pretty nice...
Too bad it only comes in a 6sp auto...
However the new GS430 coming out looks pretty nice...
Too bad it only comes in a 6sp auto...
01-02-2005, 12:22 AM
#36
I'm the Firestarter
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by gfxdave99
IS300 + equipped like a tsx + 215hp and only .4 sec faster then a tsx 0-60 + $32,519.00 = not so
I can't wait to see it, assuming the budget for my next car increases I'm sure it will be a top contender.
Does anyone have these IS concept shots handy?
01-02-2005, 02:52 AM
#37
Race Director
Originally Posted by Belzebutt
I'm sure he was talking about the next IS, the current one is a lame duck.
I can't wait to see it, assuming the budget for my next car increases I'm sure it will be a top contender.
Does anyone have these IS concept shots handy?
I can't wait to see it, assuming the budget for my next car increases I'm sure it will be a top contender.
Does anyone have these IS concept shots handy?
IS350 and go from there.I'd venture to guess, much to the chagrin of our recently departed lexus afficionado sicklex, that the new IS250 will be close in features and price to the TSX (although the main point of the car will be to compete with the E90 325). To jump up and play with the big boys (330, G35, TL) the IS350 will throw a whole bunch more HP into the mix.
01-02-2005, 03:04 AM
#38
Drifting
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i'm not sure what i'll do since things can really change in a few years, but i will say that if acura remains good or gets better, i will buy another one. i see the potential for acura to be great head-to-head competitors with bmw, mb, etc. without costing as much.
i also like the acura lineup and options/pricing. besides the usual issues (qwd/rwd, more power, etc.), i would like to see more variation (a convertible and/or a wagon) or a coupe that rivals the g35 et al. like cg said, maybe they can reduce the cost of a-spec as well (thousands of $ and no added power?
) or have an m-series/amg/etc. equivalent.
anyway, i think acura is working hard on improving their brand, and maybe with its increased success, we'll be seeing a lot more improvements/additions. i'm anxious to see what new models acura might be coming out with that are generally affordable (i.e. not the hsc or dnx concepts) besides the rdx.
i also like the acura lineup and options/pricing. besides the usual issues (qwd/rwd, more power, etc.), i would like to see more variation (a convertible and/or a wagon) or a coupe that rivals the g35 et al. like cg said, maybe they can reduce the cost of a-spec as well (thousands of $ and no added power?
) or have an m-series/amg/etc. equivalent.anyway, i think acura is working hard on improving their brand, and maybe with its increased success, we'll be seeing a lot more improvements/additions. i'm anxious to see what new models acura might be coming out with that are generally affordable (i.e. not the hsc or dnx concepts) besides the rdx.
01-02-2005, 03:43 AM
#39
I feel the need...
I think the only thing that would give me more satisfaction with my TSX is the 3.0 V6, 240hp engine. Otherwise, the car is pretty near all I desire in a sedan. Have always appreciated the value quotient of Honda since I pay cash and have a tough time mentally justifying shelling out more than $30k for a new vehicle. If I lived in a warmer climate without snow and ice, I'd drive a rwd in a heartbeat, but since I don't - fwd or awd is a must.
IMO - the new IS looks a little bloated to me, I prefer sharper edges.
IMO - the new IS looks a little bloated to me, I prefer sharper edges.
01-05-2005, 01:57 AM
#40
Burning Brakes
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Originally Posted by gocubsgo55
don't forget, that 3.5L is 1.. built more for comfort than sportiness and 2.. has SOHC. Now, imagine what they can do with a DOHC 3.5L built for pure sport. If we compare the s2000 2.0L to (let's just say an NSX V6), Acura should be able to get 420 HP out of a 3.5L (but it comes with a lack of torque). Honda is going to come out with better engines as soon as they get the whole DOHC V6 thing going.
You are forgetting that more cylinders (and all that is associated with it) make it far harder to produce the 100+hp/L specific outputs. Both the M3's S54 6cyl @104hp/L , the E60 M5's 5.0 10 cyl @100hp/L and the Modena's 3.6L 8cyl (Stradale form) @118hp/L (or even the Modena form with ~110hp/L) are far greater engineering feats than getting 120hp/L out of a 4 banger (109hp/L in the current S2000). With similar quality engineering a 3.5 V6 would be about 100 hp/L for about 350hp. 420 HP out of 3.5L is outside the current envelope for a street engine (NA) except for Ferrari, who must be considered to be the NA specific output king.
On that note it is also interesting to note that it really doesn't matter about specific output in the REAL world. Volume and weight vs. HP/Torque really is a far more sane way to consider this issue. Although the LS7 is a large displacement engine when considering volume and weight is compares very well with much more exotic engines and will do so with very good EPA gas milages (albeit skip shift helps which I assume it will get) in the end it pumps out 500hp and 475 lb/ft. In the end who cares that it is a 7L and OHV, it is still a small, simple, strong monster of an engine.
Vandy