Rockstar21

iTrader: (1)

that's a pretty bad time. they must have made one pass and said fuggit, good enough.

TylerT

iTrader: (1)

Properly driven, a stock healthy CL-S6 will do lower 14s & 97mph ET all day long.

oonowindoo

which is the same as a 11 years younger TLX V6 with 9 gears...

TylerT

iTrader: (1)

This whole thread =

Acura does not do "fast" anymore, not in their road going production cars at least.

My next car certainly will not be anything with an Acura or Honda badge, much better offerings elsewhere

TacoBello

Actually, now that I think of it- they said the limiting factor on that car was the shitty tires from factory. That could be why the time is so slow. Otherwise they said the car would be up with the 330ci.

d1sturb3d119

iTrader: (1)

I see your point. Honestly I've been looking at the ISF for this very reason. I love my 3g TL and won't be selling it ever but my next car isn't going to be uninspiring. The ISF gives me the same feeling the 3G does ironically. Sad that their newer cars don't have the same feeling to it.

ttribe

SSFTSX, is that you?

oonowindoo

panamera125

Don't mean to offend anyone! Just feel like Honda/Acura takes a lot of bashing, want to offer another point of view. Guess I came to the wrong thread?

Sarlacc

You don't say...

d1sturb3d119

iTrader: (1)

They get a lot of shit from people who don't know shit typically. Now however its a different case. They get shit for a reason. Sadly we all like or liked acura's and honda's but its uninspiring now to say the least. Personally I feel like Lexus has been doing way better and actually have car's I'd love to own.

Their marketing also sucks cause SHAWD is an exceptional system but people still flock to quattro and subaru's claiming they're somehow better. Honda is slipping. They made nice cars. Not so much anymore. Who know's that might change someday...

suspekt360

My thoughts.
Me and Pseudomaniac both went from CLS auto to CLS6 fully bolted. What a machine. Simply one of the most thrilling cars I've owned. And pseudo is right, 3rd gear was magic.

Back to his point. I have written this many many forums and on twitter directly to Acura.

- make an effing twin turbo AWD TLX on the V6 architecture and give it a wide body stance along the lines of the TLX race car.

The NSX motor is a mistake because it has no mainstream application. It is a bespoke DOHC design and we will never see it in another Acura.

Acura must produce an "in the metal" wide body 450 hp AWD TLX with a turbo 6.

Just look at the new GSF. It has extensive sheet metal changes and a wonderful motor.

Acura needs a TT AWD TLX. In manual too.

d1sturb3d119

iTrader: (1)

I wish that would happen. This is the manufacturer who built V10's for F1. What the hell for if the tech never trickles down?!

BlueAc

iTrader: (2)

I feel the same as the general consensus in this thread. Every car I've owned until recently was a Honda product. Starting with my '97 Accord Wagon that I financed on my own (Mom co-signed) at 18 up to my 07 TLS. I've had 3 Acura TLs including 2 back to back purchases of the 3G. I never really was a fan of the 4G body, there just something about it that didn't click with me. I swore off getting one and decided to wait it out for the TLX. Well I got a chance to see it at the NYIAS and to say I was underwhelmed would be an understatement. It was so boring, it had no wow factor. I really expected something great. At that point I knew my days as an Acura owner were numbered. At that same show I saw great things from the other top tier automakers. A few caught my eye including some offerings from Lexus.

Well fast forward a year and I had the new car itch real bad. I went to look at a few used Acuras, including a 2010 TL SHAWD. Well strangely enough, there was something about that car that sucked me in. It was WDP/Ebony with the body kit on it and it was in showroom condition. I liked it but I just couldn't pull the trigger, I wanted to look around and see what else I liked. Well I thought back to the show and remembered how Lexus grabbed my attention. Well, I ended up going to a dealer and working a deal on a 15 GS 350 F Sport. To me, this car is everything I wanted. It's spacious, sporty, comfortable, fast (enough for me) and very easy on the eyes. I got the Ultra White/Cabernet combo. I couldn't be more happy. I'm glad I got away from Acura. Nothing against current TLX owners but it's a bad sign when you have to keep saying "for the price I paid" to defend your car. The inside of the TLX just felt so bland, nothing popped with it. Maybe they'll do something to spice it up with the makeover, but I doubt it. I think Acura has shown us where they're headed and I didn't want to go there. Even my Mom, who has had 3 Acuras is starting to look elsewhere.

Sidenote: I know the GS 350 and TLX aren't exactly in the same class but I wanted a little more room inside the car. The IS while nice, felt more cramped than my current TL. But even comparing the RLX to GS 350, I'd still go with the the GS.

Chief F1 Fan

If you think that comparo sucks, watch this:

YeuEmMaiMai

No V8
Interiors that just do not stand up over the years (leather, 3G dashboards)

If Ford can
pull a 3.4L V8 out of it's bottom end
pull a 3.5L twin turbo V6 out of it's bottom end that makes 365HP on a very conservative tune...(Hennessy bumps this up to 445 on a tune and a better intake/exhaust)

Honda has experience with turbos and they know as well we do that the J series can handle a nice boost in power easily

KaMLuNg

iTrader: (5)

knock on wood of the reliability and maintenance bill after your 3 yrs is up... I don't have very good luck with MB products after they go out of warranty...

Nexx

my whole point is that they NEVER ever did "fast" in the first place

Rockstar21

iTrader: (1)

idk, my s2000 doesn't have much trouble keeping up with many New 4 cylinders with higher displacement and even some that are turbo.

its not "fast" by todays standards... but lets not go and pretend that it wasnt the greatest motor pound for pound on the planet for nearly a decade...

Honda/Acura doesn't have to build "Fast" they just have to build "faster"... you know, have some balls. maybe hire a few new designers. everyone's happy.

my old ass 03' Accord 6 speed is performance-wise barely behind a brand new 3.7 Accord 6spd. if not neck and neck.
that's sad.

Its not always about being Fast.. its about NOT being anemic

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

I disagree. I'm usually one of the first to throw the beating a dead horse GIF into one of these threads... but this one has actually been a good discussion with a different approach then usual.

I can't speak for all... but fast is not the only thing that appeals to the enthusiast (or even non-enthusiast). Fast (or even quick) may be one factor for some, but there are other factors as well... and Acura barely checks any of those boxes anymore.

KaMLuNg

iTrader: (5)

hence why you see LSx swaps into S2Ks... its a great car, just the powerplant lacks...

TacoBello

You're definitely speaking for me- and hitting the nail right on the head. I actually just recently bought a Mazda Miata. A friggin Mazda. After my last six cars were all honda/acura products (still have one as a daily) I decided no more.

I just wanted a fun car, and my only options were a TL-S or CSX-S, both of which are now old and generally bagged to shit out of. I looked for six months for a clean TL-S with a 6MT and came up with nothing. If I could fit in the s2000, I'd get one of those, but it's literally a coffin for me. The smaller, lighter, Miata actually has better interior ergonomics for a fellow my size. Go figure.

Sorry Honda- I wanted to give you my money, but you decided I wasn't important enough.

Legend2TL

At Honda their HRC F1 tech did trickle down, the O2 sensors in the Civic HX were derived from the F1 V10 motor's. Ceramic coated main bearing tech was also used on production motors. While other F1 engine makers used bucket over shim for valve train, Honda used finger style cam followers like on their F1 motors.

TylerT

iTrader: (1)

I'll give you that, it has been an interesting discussion ... and so has the many discussions before it.

What do they have in common?

It has ended with the consensus that Acura's lineup for the last 6 years has been:

- Bland with 0 road presence
- Outdated platforms & engines
- No catering for us "enthusiasts"
- What Acura "used" to be and currently isn't
- Not moving with the times while new & existing competition consistently outsells & shits on their hopes and dreams

Just my

Rockstar21

iTrader: (1)

not many...

the f20/f22 block is capable of 7-800hp on stock internals.. it doesn't make much sense (to me) to put money into an LS swap on the S2k if you ask me (I've read threads on these swaps. its not any cheaper than going high boost/built on the F)

there is a viper v10 swap in one as well... its basically useless

there are a lot of cars that get swaps on the regular.. the S is not one of them. the F series is an outstanding motor, in stock and modified form.

d1sturb3d119

iTrader: (1)

So what I really wanted trickling down was maybe the whole motor but I see your point

SamDoe1

Oh cool, the Civic HX uses F1 O2 sensors. Just what I wanted for trickle down engineering from the pinnacle of motorsport.

neuronbob

and

I'm still sometimes surprised I came back to Acura for my current purchase. I guess it's like a brief visit home after having been in Cleveland for many years (I'm from Colorado and I miss it. Terribly. ). I do like my RLX, the drivetrain has enthusiast potential (it's really fast and handles well!), I like the stately exterior.....but sexy sheetmetal and a more competitive price would REALLY help. I guess I responded poorly to the 3G CTS sheetmetal. Though the new V is ....

titomang

I don't really post much outside of the 2G RL forum, but I would like to put in my input.


In the past I've owned numerous Hondas and Acuras (91 Accord EX 5 spd, 96 GSR, 99 Si, 00 Accord V6, 01 Accord EX 5 spd, 2001 s2000) and currently have an 03 s2000 and 07 RL. When the wife and I was looking for an SUV for our upcoming daughter, we looked at the MDX and RX. We ended up getting the RX instead of the MDX. Don't get me wrong, the MDX was a nice vehicle, but we just didn't need the extra seating.


Ever since owning the RX, I just keep following what Lexus is doing and I have to say their grabbing my attention. I love how they have an F sport trim for each model and how bold and innovative their designs are. I love my RL and I plan on driving it until the wheels fall off, but if anything happens to it (god forbid) I honestly would take a good look at the LS F sport. Honda and Acura just doesn't have anything that sparks my interest, hopefully they will in the future because I will always have a soft spot for them.


I'm just glad I own one of the best luxury cars Honda has ever built and one the best sports car that Honda has ever built.

05TLdcc

Wait... people still buy acuras?

Really though, as many times as it has been said in this thread or on any other occasion for that matter, Acura is sitting at the kids table wearing his helmet while the competition is sitting with the adults...

My girlfriend asked me recently to help her shop for a new vehicle. After she determined her budget and what she wants in a car, I told her to just look at brands and throw out some names that catch her attention. BMW, Audi, Ford, and Lexus were thrown out there. Not once did Acura even cross her mind. The demographic they want to reach out to and have purchase their product doesn't really acknowledge they exist!

Without the MDX, Acura would have gone away a few years ago. They can have great past cars but companies that rely on their past to grow in the future are the ones who don't survive very long.

hddnav

Acura is the 45-year old guy experiencing a mid-life crisis and still lives at home with his parents. He's single and still a virgin, but you can't fault him for not trying.

But, at least, he's a nice guy who knows his place in the world. He's never found a break in life and still works at a grocery store (was never able to break into Corporate America). His last claim to fame was the time that he was a high-school chess champion (the Integra days). Since then, it's been one layoff after another. By now, he has practically no self respect left.

This is the world of Acura.

vbx

LOL.

ALFAQ

Every brand has a critic,there is always someone who is discontent with a car and will switch brand for one reason or another. What beats me though,is the people who purchase or lease a specific brand/model fully being aware of its issues, it seems that there are knowledgeable and educated owners of the Acura who voice their discontent about the brand and still drive them,why on earth purchase them in the first place?

SamDoe1

^ If the people in this thread talking bad about Acura have one, it's almost certainly one that's 2008 or older.

Booya4139

I had a 2008 civic si before my 09 TL, and that Si was an incredible car. I still miss it. fun to drive, versatile, efficient...checked all the boxes for me at the time... The enthusiasts whined that it had a stock 6.7 0-60, that competition was all FI... Didn't matter. Car was geared to be incredibly fun on the street.

The TL checks alot of boxes for me too... I bought it lightly used for $25k. Its been reliable, good power, great size, very nice tech, very comfy and safe. I think its a fine car (and like the Si, very underrated by the blogosphere)

I test drove a C-class, and even with 500 HP i would have been unimpressed with it... size of it wasn't right for me, didn't feel upmarket. It was an appliance with a merc badge. I had a 94 SL500, that car was built like a tank, felt like a fighter pilot cockpit inside, and top down brought a smile to my face. Reliability was terrible on it and it turned into a money pit. Thats how i ended up in the Si. I just wanted a bulletproof car i could enjoy and not worry about.

I haven't driven the TLX, but given how the design was neutered, I doubt i would consider it.

A family member bought a new loaded Accord, and that car is seriously impressive. Let hope the jumps honda is making push their luxury line to a higher level.

FamilyGuy

If Acura ever pulls its head out of its ass we might see some exciting, good looking and reliable cars again.

If Toyota ever decides to put a manual trans in the Lexus IS350, I'll be a customer.

Euros are nice, but unreliable money pits after a few years. Sadly, not appealing in the long run.

American eh, still making boats on wheels with decades old tech, and no exterior styling whatsoever. The new vette is as good as it gets, aside from still having a push rod engine.

We're all screwed.

TacoBello

The vette might have 'just a push rod engine', but it's been refined over the decades to be something spectacular. And like you said, the vette all in itself is a pretty spectacular car these days, inside and out.

I would strongly consider a Lexus if it came in manual... Seeing as it's going the way of the dinosaurs, I might end up in a lexus sooner than later anyway. What's to hate, beyond that?

FamilyGuy

Agreed.

And don't take me wrong, I love the new vette and want one. I was just making a point overall about our cars here in the states. Like the Mustangs and Camaros still having a solid rear axle until recently, and the boat size of cars like the challenger / charger. Point is, we're still making daddy's old muscle car formula and that's cool and all, I certainly appreciate them, but would never buy one (aside from the hot ass C7, which I see as a "new" car).

I'm from a diff gen. I want a high tech screaming engine, a solid chassis, four wheel independent sport suspension, up to date brakes, some sort of today or tomorrow exterior design (retro versions of past cars is fine) and reliability. But above all, I want an engaging driving experience, bumper to bumper, all around. Power under the hood alone is boring if the car can't corner and brake worth a shit. Smoking tires was fun during teen years. Today I want an all around, good looking performer with a decent stereo, and a stick shift. Of course, I'm only one guy, we each have our tastes and preferences.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

I'm wondering how much exposure you have had to new cars since your blanket statement seems to be from the early to mid-2000's.

I'll admit I'd get nervous owning an older A8 or S-class... but other than that, Euro's have come a long way. Maintenance is going to be higher but it comes with the territory. Reliability though has come very far. We've been a Euro family since 2005 and every single one has been as good or better then the Japanese brands we've owned. Their results in satisfaction surveys support the experiences I and many other Euro owners (many hang here in Car Talk) have had.

As for your statement on the American companies... while styling is subjective, the new Vette, Charger/Challenger, Mustang, ATS/CTS (and their "V" models), Grand Cherokee, and on and on are all pretty good looking cars with great road presence. Also, have you been in any of these in the last few years? Their tech has come a long way and rivals their Japanese and Euro competition. I used to poo-poo the American manufacturers as well but they've really stepped it up the last 5-7 years or so...

Funny enough the only statement I agree with is your Acura one

edit - OK, you posted your last reply while I was typing this. By tech in American cars you meant mechanical like the solid rear axle until recently. I was more talking gadget stuff (infotainment, etc). Even so a solid rear axle would never stop me from buying a car if all of the other boxes were checked...

edit 2 - Just read the rest . Check out a Lotus Elise. From your second paragraph, sounds like the car for you. High revving, handles like it's on rails, Toyota powertrain, manual transmission, and looks that snap necks...

FamilyGuy

My last euro car was a 2004. Could never mod it because all my $ went into maintenance and replacement parts. A friend of mine lost two transmissions in his 07 BMW. Like anything, there's good and bad, and I don't track this stuff on a regular basis, but pretty sure the euros still haven't moved up the reliability ratings by much in recent years. I've sold cars in the early 2000's and was trained in a Mercedes dealer in Boston. When teaching us how to deal with unpleasant customers, out trainer always said, and I quote "you ever want to see a pissed off customer, just sit in the service dept and wait for a Mercedes customer who's out of warranty". Straight from the horses mouth.

I agree on the Caddys. I think they have some of the best looking designs right now. A family member of mine has a 5.7L charger...no thx.