iHondaGuy

Hey All!

I own 2 ICE vehicles - RDX and TLX. I'll be needing another car which I'm strongly considering an EV. I would like to get a car by December this year hopefully.
I've typical been a Honda guy but I went to the Toyota dealership for a Rav4 or bz4x. I've been unable to place an order on the car since they go in 5 minutes. Sooooo..... Now I'm considering the Chevy Bolt EUV. Went to chevy dealer that had the Bolt EUV Premier, gave it a test drive felt really nice, peppy and a fun to drive car. I'm really considering placing an order for the the Bolt. But I wanted to hear some thought on ownership differences between ICEs and EVs.

Every other neighbor here has a Tesla. I hear that if you get a flat tire with the EVs then you cannot just take the car to Pepboys / Mavis / some tire shop and get the tire replace. You'll need to call Telsa or GM (for the bolt) and they'll send out a tow truck for replacement. That would be such a PITA. Is that even right ???

Any thoughts on this Chevy Bolt or should I press my luck and wait for the Rav4 Prime? For the Bolt EUV GM is giving a 6300$ discount - no sales tax in NJ - and they'll setup up with a charger at home which'll be free. The price for the bolt premier is 42k (MSRP) + 1k (markup) - 6.3K (GM discount). Looks very appealing but I'm NOT experienced with EV cars at all. "Any" help & insights are welcome.

Thanks for your thoughts.

pttl

iHondaGuy

no sales tax for EV car.

SamDoe1

Will come back and provide more detailed answers on #EVLyfe but don't buy the Bolt if you like your house not on fire. The Subaru Solterra is identical in every way to the Toyota fax machine name and might be easier to find. It's also eligible for the $7500 rebate still unlike the Toyota.

csmeance

EV's are certainly the wave of the future, if you are not in a rush to buy you can always have feelers out at dealers if they ever want a quick sale.

You can buy plenty of EV's that will still get you the credit. You don't have to call specific people for a tow with an electric car, but the tesla's certainly use an odd tire size (21"s) that most tire places don't carry.

What sort of features are you looking at? Length of ownership? Bolt will NOT hold value well, it's being axed soon for the new ultium platform. Leaf is a cheaper and better option... Price range? Audi/VW and hyundai seem interesting

iHondaGuy

I did hear about the Chevy bolt battery issue. But I thought that GM started using the new Ultium battery platform to resolve that fire hazard. But I think this could be an issue with all EVs.

As for options I’m not looking for anything specific - just standard basic features, no need for auto drive features, but just a seat heater for winter months.
time frame: would like something around December this year.
price range: high 30s and willing to go to mid 40s.

I’ll look into the Nissan Leaf and Subaru clone of the Toyota.

Sarlacc

Tesla tires from the factory are foam filled. The usual tire shops should carry or be able to order those versions. When replacing tires, any tire that fits your wheels will work. If you have a discount tire or American tire you can simply take your car there and buy a tire warranty.

SamDoe1

Ok now I can provide some insight.

1.) Make sure you have a solid plan on how to charge it. Don't rely on public chargers at this point unless you're going with a Tesla. Even if you are going with Tesla, chances are that it won't save you a ton on gas if you're not charging at home. The cost for a public charger is about 3-4x the cost to charge at home. Get an idea for how to get a home charger installed.
2.) Your budget of 30-40k isn't going to get you into a whole lot of EV's in the current market, even a used one may be out of the question. It's so inflated right now that the cost of EVs are insane due to the price of gas. The cost of my car today is nearly $10k more than I bought it for last year.
3.) Nissan Leaf is hot garbage, avoid it.
4.) The tire thing is a farce, you can put whatever tires you want on it. The factory tires have foam lining (like sarlacc said) and they are "EV specific" in that they have lower rolling resistance but you can put whatever tires you want on there whenever you want. I don't have EV specific tires for my winter tires and it works just fine. Any tire shop can service the tires.
5.) I don't know what GM did with the Bolt, I just know I wouldn't buy one given all the other options out there.
6.) The RAV4 Prime is not an EV, it's a plug in hybrid so it still has a gas engine.
7.) Also look into Hyundai and Kia, they both have good EV options as well.
8.) You're definitely not getting a Tesla or Ford for that price point.
9.) How much range are you going to need and what do you plan on doing with the car?

iHondaGuy

For range… 250 miles would fit us well. The wife can take the car to work and back for a week with that.

We have a garage… I would get the 220v charger for home. I’m clueless about chargers. Are these chargers universal? Or are there still at the beta vs VHS stage?


In terms of price I had to start low. Yes - I’m finding my choices to be limited as pointed out. I would consider the Toyota bz4x or the Solterra at 50k but neither car has had much air time. Last I heard about the bz4x… Toyota said not to drive it due to wheels issues.

I’ll look into the Kia and Hyundai EV.

So please tell me which EV I should consider.
Even if it is a Tesla … Tesla is overpriced IMO and I suspected they’ll bring the price down as other auto makers dump EVs to the market.
But I just like sometime simple.. I can do with out the fancies.. wife just wants a seat warmer and not spend much.

pttl

Kona Electric $34k msrp

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/us/en/veh...oaAhp5EALw_wcB

SamDoe1

Keep in mind that, generally speaking, that range estimate isn't going to be real. Expect about 80% of that range if you don't hypermile the shit out of the car, and even worse than that in the winter.

If you don't have a Tesla or Nissan Leaf, the plugs are the same J1772 with a CCS option. For a home charger, a 220V is a must. For the charger itself there are a few choices. You can buy a wall mounted charger that gets hard wired to the circuit or you can use the mobile charger the car came with. I personally just use the charger the car came with and it has been fine but some people like to have a hard wired option for peace of mind.

I'd look into the Hyundai's and Kia's and see what they have to offer at the price point you're looking to be at. Ideally a Tesla is the easiest way into the EV world because of the ease of everything (especially public charging) but they don't come cheap. You can get a base Model 3 standard range RWD for $47k before options (mostly colors) but it's not eligible for the tax rebate and it's definitely not going to blow the doors off of anything notable. Alternatively, the Solterra or Hyundai/Kia are eligible for a $7500 tax rebate from the feds so even a loaded $50k Solterra would be cheaper than the Tesla because of that. If you're willing to stretch the budget to 50k, a Ford MachE is fantastic. I think that one is eligible for the rebate still too.

I don't see Tesla dropping the price anytime soon. There's still a 4-6 month wait to get one even at current pricing lol. I've told a few people that a Tesla is the easiest way into the EV world and it most definitely is. I, however, wouldn't and am not going to buy another one. It has been a great ownership experience so far but they are so dime a dozen now and I hate Elon Musk. I've already ordered another EV and it's definitely not a Tesla this time.

iHondaGuy

what is a “feeler” ? Is that like a demo car or loaners?

SamDoe1

Any car they have on hand and are looking to offload. With the way things are going now, you have to order a car and not just pick one off the lot. Sometimes a car will get ordered and the person who wanted it will back out last minute so they have a car to move on the lot and available now. Keep in mind that this process will likely also come with a big markup if there's a lot of interest in said car.

Sarlacc

I still argue against Sam’s 1) of not relying on charging networks (for Tesla only) as it depends on your location. Here in So Cal I’m not saving a ton by soley using superchargers are electricity is higher in general. Currently at off peak prices I’m paying 10 cents more per kWh than home electricity. My 30 days range is currently at about $145. Which is still way cheaper than gas here which is still well over $6 a gallon.

so location matters on that one.

Tech

A friend is considering one as their one and only vehicle.

The question I have is, if you live in a climate where it gets as cold as -10F and as warm as +90F, what happens to the range (obviously less) when you need to heat the car or have the A/C on. I am not talking about travel within a city, but on a 250 mile highway trip. How do these things heat and how do they cool?

SamDoe1

I think I am perfectly suited to answer this question since today it will be about 90F outside and in about 8 months will be -10F outside lol.

The short answer is that it's fine. The car is capable of heating and cooling in every condition I've found so far, even down to -30F though it really hates the super cold.

The long answer is as follows. Cold is a lot worse than hot. Hot weather doesn't bother the car all that much and running the AC doesn't consume a ton of juice compared to running the heater. In the winter time my range is about 2/3rds what it is in the summer and, if it's really stupid cold, can be even less than that. Key to winter time use is charging it every night and preheating/conditioning the battery while the car is plugged in to the wall. Cold weather will also limit battery output and performance until the car warms up just like a gas car would. If you preheat everything then you can avoid this. I preheat by starting the process on my app while laying in bed. No need to open garage door to start the car because no emissions. If you leave home at the same or similar time every day, you can schedule the car to do this process automatically for you.

The car can now automagically compensate for outside temps in range calculations so it will add more charging stops if it needs them on longer road trips.

SamDoe1

Yes, definitely. The closest charger to my house is about 7 miles away so no way I'm doing that for general charging.

Sarlacc

Yup and that makes total sense. Closest SC to me is 3 blocks away. closest chargers are some shitty ones in the retail parking next to my condo. Ive avoided those as of late. And if the conduit run to my parking space was so damned high I would have a home charger. Because yes convenience is king, but I dont feel put out too much doing it this way for the past coming up on a year now.

Sarlacc

I regularly take my car out to the desert where its over 100-110 degrees. No issues.

Tech

Thanks for that and I sent your comments to my friend. Of course the best scenario is when it is about 60F outside...no need for heat or A/C.

In my case, it would not work as I leave my daily driver outside in the winter and I know how tough it is to get a 1/4 inch of ice off all the windows using the heater in my RDX.

Tech

Not questioning if it can do the job, but as any system requires energy, your range decreases by some amount.

SamDoe1

I don't park mine outside but if you do, there is a function in the app called "defrost car" lol. I've used it when leaving the office and the car had been outside all day and it does work quite well. As long as you have it plugged in, even outside, it would work without pulling power from the battery.

(before I get called out on a technicality, it would still pull power from the battery since all the functions in the car run on DC power and you are inputting AC power. The key is to have a charging circuit fast enough to replenish what is lost as it is being consumed. A 240V/40A charger is plenty to do this. Pretty sure this is what @civicdrivr has)

Yes, of course but that will happen to any car at any extreme.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

As Sam said, I've got a 60A circuit installed to charge my 3. It'll charge from 10% to 80% in about 4.5-5hrs.

I also park outside, and scheduling your departure time or simply going into the app to defrost the car works really well. At no point during my ownership has defrosting or cooling the vehicle outpaced what the charger could put in (meaning, I have it set to charge to 80% and it's always at 80% when I leave).

iHondaGuy

Can you please elaborate on why the nissan leaf is "hot garbage" ? Do they have known issues, lemons, etc.. ?

I may have to seriously consider the "hot garbage" since it is cheaper and other EVs are more expensive and simply not available. I searched around and the nissan leaf is also very hard to get... I have to place a deposit on an "in transit" vehicle.


[QUOTE=SamDoe1;16831686]Ok now I can provide some insight.

3.) Nissan Leaf is hot garbage, avoid it.

iHondaGuy

Actually I looked in the Mach E and would be willing to stretch to $50k with the federal tax credit. But I'm hearing that delivery is delayed 10 months. Ford is open to take orders on Aug 15 approx.

SamDoe1

Please note that there's a reason for this. The Leaf has older battery tech, older charging tech, slim options to fast charge, fast charge isn't fast, low range, FWD only, and the interior is not that nice. It's not going to be something like a Tesla or a MachE which feels like a leap forward in automotive tech and performance, it'll feel like a Prius but worse.

I'd save your money for a better car like an ID4, EV6, Ioniq, MachE or something like that. Even the Subaru Solterra/Toyota fax machine is a solid option over the Leaf.

00TL-P3.2

Former boss had a Gen 1 Leaf, but only because he got a killer deal through his sister, so it was nearly 'free' after the tax incentive, and he could charge at the office for free.

iHondaGuy

Yeah I would be charging it at home too.
It would be a commuter car - wife can use it to go to work and back, do the grocery and back. Then in the evening charge it in the garage.

I would actually need a car soon. If the wait time is 10 month for a Mach -E, then I have to go with something else that is available.
So I've called up a few nissan dealers and they have given me the run around.It seems like they don't want to sell me a car or place a deposit. Maybe it's a blessing in disguise... but here is my question: How should I go about even placing a deposit on a car in today market.

SamDoe1

Expand your search radius. If you need to travel 250-500 miles to get a car it's not the end of the world these days. Might even be able to find a dealer with a MachE closer than 10 months out. When it comes to used EV's remember that there's no tax rebate on those.

If a Leaf is what you want then go for it, just remember that the resale value will be pretty crappy compared to other EV's out there.

iHondaGuy

I cannot believe I'm stooping down to a Chevy but how is the following - Chevy Bolt EUV Premier. No markups. Just spoke with them on the phone. Delivery 6 - 8 weeks.

Sarlacc

Bolts aren't bad. I know someone who had one and liked it, and another who is on their 2nd lease with them, and I forgot another friend has one. And one of my wife's friends just got one.

F23A4

I pretty much picked up my 2019 LEAF SL (used) just prior to the spike in pump prices, when my store (Bridgewater Nissan) had three new LEAFs and three used 18-20 models, of which I purchased one.

Sounds like the guys you've been dealing with are trying to hold you over a barrel, given the run on EVs here in Jersey. (My Nissan store has no LEAFs in stock but does have a 21 Model3 DM w/13k for which they're asking $63k....or about $3k over a new one.)

That said, the Bolt in it's present form is simply too 'unappealing' to us visually, in much the same way as the original LEAF. But they do have better range than any LEAF and seem to be fairly well equipped.

With EV demand in Jersey, you just may need to "eat crow" for a bit and go with the Bolt, which doesnt seem to be too bad of a deal in your instance. Keep us posted.

iHondaGuy

Hey neighbor!! Bridgewater Nissan in Jersey is also the closest Nissan for me.
I was surprised to hear they are not marking up according to the sales person I spoke with. Neither is the local Ford Dealer when I asked about the Mach E. They are takiing orders
Given the two poisons...I would rather get the Leaf rather than Bolt. ___ BUT ___ I may have to bite the bullet with Bolt soon because the delivery time is 6-8 weeks out and apparently it sounded like I can place a deposit on the Bolt at that dealership.
With the Bolt I'd be looking forward to trying out the Super Cruise which the Leaf is lacking from the same price point.

SamDoe1

Bolt is fine as long as they've fixed the fire issues...

iHondaGuy

Does anyone know how I can go about verify which car is eligible for the federal tax credit.
I check this site here on irs - https://www.irs.gov/businesses/plug-...30-and-irc-30d

It seems like the chevy bolt has $0 in fed tax credit left

Sarlacc

That is correct, but chevy is also discounting all 2022 model like $6000, and with 2023 that be an actual price drop.

Sarlacc

and if you have a Costco membership you maybe eligible for other discounts.

pttl

NJ is giving money away for buying an EV, so that should offset the federal tax credit.

Curious3GTL

If you can wait it looks like it's coming back.

https://electrek.co/2022/07/27/senat...rm-tesla-tsla/

F23A4

And PSEG has their own set of incentives as well. LINK