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I haven't responded yet, mainly because I went into full on analysis mode.
I put together a spreadsheet yesterday comparing the cost of ownership for various vehicles. This accounted for TTL, fuel/electricity consumption (based on $3.75/gal for 93 octane & $.13/kWhr), loan information, personal property taxes, maintenance, yearly registration, and projected resale value (most of the stuff I didn't include in the message at the top of the page). Then I put in the info for the Civic Si as well as the new Golf R and the Model 3, for shits and grins. Again, factoring in projecting resale, the Si would have a total cost of ownership of $19,282 ($535/mo) over 3 years. The Golf R is $23,471 ($651/mo). The Tesla is $16,584 ($460/mo). The starting point for these comparisons is MSRP, which is difficult to find since most dealers are really pumping up the market adjustments.
So, yeah....
Spoiler
civicdrivr, just curious?
In your analysis calculations for per gallon fuel consumption, did you factor in (for grins & giggles), an estimation on your future savings in regards to state and federal gas taxes?
Wiki has per gallon VA state gas taxes as $0.34 per gallon & an additional $0.18.4 for federal gas tax. Fuel taxes in the United States - Wikipedia
I've started to see, on the news here locally (Central & S. Florida), fledgling discussion about how State and Federal regulators are going to make up for that short fall in regards to EV owners. You know to pay for infrastructure and whatever else those funds are used for.
civicdrivr, just curious?
In your analysis calculations for per gallon fuel consumption, did you factor in (for grins & giggles), an estimation on your future savings in regards to state and federal gas taxes?
Wiki has per gallon VA state gas taxes as $0.34 per gallon & an additional $0.18.4 for federal gas tax. Fuel taxes in the United States - Wikipedia
I've started to see, on the news here locally (Central & S. Florida), fledgling discussion about how State and Federal regulators are going to make up for that short fall in regards to EV owners. You know to pay for infrastructure and whatever else those funds are used for.
Yep, in Virginia, EVs are hit with a surcharge at registration. That was factored into my cost of ownership as well.
Yep, in Virginia, EVs are hit with a surcharge at registration. That was factored into my cost of ownership as well.
Found it. Thanks.
Damn, so VA currently charges a prepaid tax up front every year at registration for about the equivalent of 320.58823 gallons of fuel?
$.34X320.58823=$108.99999
Electric Vehicles:
An annual highway use fee will be assessed on each electric motor vehicle registered for highway use in Virginia. The fee is included with registration fees and must be paid at the time of original registration and each year at renewal. The annual highway use fee will be updated yearly on July 1.If the vehicle is registered for a period other than one year, the highway use fee will be multiplied by the number of years or fraction thereof that the vehicle will be registered. For more details, please visit the Highway Use Fee information page.
Va. Code §§ 46.2-770, § 46.2-771, and § 46.2-772
Highway use fee: Electric vehicles are required to pay a fixed highway use fee, which is currently $109.00, to reflect the amount in fuels taxes electric vehicles will not pay during a single year due to not purchasing motor fuel.
We get charged $75 for an EV surcharge at registration. It equates to about 6500 miles of driving so if you're over than that then you're in the green. The best part here is how Tesla does it's option packages. In MN, the registration cost is based off the "base price" of the car, not including options. My wife has a Subie Ascent Touring which has a base price of something like $45k so that's what we get taxed on even though it has ~$2k in options. The Tesla's "base price" is that of the Model 3 standard range plus at $37k which is what the registration tax is based on and the car comes with a "Performance Option" for $20k that isn't taxed.
Also you get $250 a year towards the carpool lane that no one cares about so it's more than a wash.
However, 320 gallons really isn't that much fuel, and it's still less than paying the actual gas taxes. For example:
The R averages 24mpg. 320 gallons would take me 7,680 miles. While that's more than I'm currently driving, we don't take the R because it's just not comfortable for the three of us (shopping trips suck in it). We end taking the CR-V, which we put about 11k miles per year on. The CR-V does get better gas mileage (we've been averaging ~30mpg over 42k miles), a majority of those miles take place on weekends. So by driving the Tesla more and the CR-V less, we're still coming out ahead.
Bonus - I'm hoping the Tesla sells the fiance on an electric car so we can sell the CR-V, she can take over the 3, and I can grab an R1S
However, 320 gallons really isn't that much fuel, and it's still less than paying the actual gas taxes. For example:
The R averages 24mpg. 320 gallons would take me 7,680 miles. While that's more than I'm currently driving, we don't take the R because it's just not comfortable for the three of us (shopping trips suck in it). We end taking the CR-V, which we put about 11k miles per year on. The CR-V does get better gas mileage (we've been averaging ~30mpg over 42k miles), a majority of those miles take place on weekends. So by driving the Tesla more and the CR-V less, we're still coming out ahead.
Bonus - I'm hoping the Tesla sells the fiance on an electric car so we can sell the CR-V, she can take over the 3, and I can grab an R1S
If your fiance is anything like my wife, she'll be sold on it just on the economy front. It's SO much cheaper to run than a gas car and still fun to drive. We unfortunately can't get an EV for her no matter what just because of our use case of going to the middle of nowhere where her parents live. We'd have to stay there for a week waiting for the car to charge off a 15A 120V plug and I'm absolutely not doing that.
Damn, so VA currently charges a prepaid tax up front every year at registration for about the equivalent of 320.58823 gallons of fuel?
$.34X320.58823=$108.99999
Correct my ignorance, if I'm wrong; however, it does not appear that the $.184 Federal gas tax component is even being collected?
If state and federal gas tax is inclusive to the retail base $3.75 p/gallon 93 and VA state is only taxing civicdrivr at registration annually, would that not indirectly reduce the $.34 collected by VA to around $.156 for the EV owner?
Or is the Federal portion being accounted for somewhere that I'm overlooking?
If your fiance is anything like my wife, she'll be sold on it just on the economy front. It's SO much cheaper to run than a gas car and still fun to drive. We unfortunately can't get an EV for her no matter what just because of our use case of going to the middle of nowhere where her parents live. We'd have to stay there for a week waiting for the car to charge off a 15A 120V plug and I'm absolutely not doing that.
The fiance's parents live in the sticks but thankfully it's within round trip distance on a single charge. I think she's going to be sold on the simplicity and speed of it. Being able to plug it in when she comes home and that's it will win her over.
Originally Posted by zeta
Correct my ignorance, if I'm wrong; however, it does not appear that the $.184 Federal gas tax component is even being collected?
If state and federal gas tax is inclusive to the retail base $3.75 p/gallon 93 and VA state is only taxing civicdrivr at registration annually, would that not indirectly reduce the $.34 collected by VA to around $.156 for the EV owner?
Or is the Federal portion being accounted for somewhere that I'm overlooking?
I don't believe the federal tax is collected elsewhere, just the state taxes.
I'm disgusted with myself for what I'm about to say, but Tesla really is changing how car buying works - but it's not without it's flaws.
Last week, I got a message telling me that the car was due to be delivered, and I could select Feb 22nd, 23rd or 24th at either 10am or 2pm. That was annoying since people typically work, but whatever. I chose today at 10am. Of course the whole week has been in the 60s and dry and today was 40 and rain
Yesterday, all of the documentation and agreements were available in the app for me to review and e-sign. Today, on the way to get it, I received a text telling me the parking spot it was in and asking me to sign out and sign back in to the app so it will connect to the car.
I get there, look over the exterior, send final payment, and open the doors. There was some DMV paperwork on the center console that needed to be filled out and dropped off inside, but that was it. Nothing else. No finance department bullshit. No back and forth with the salesmen or managers. 10/10 would recommend.
I spoke to two sales advisors while there, and both were professional, helpful and kind. The sales center was clean and even had two cars in the showroom (an X and a 3 Long Range).
On to the car...
It was flawless. Every panel gap is consistent. There were no paint defects from what I could find (just a little bit of glue from the wrap applied for transport). The interior was clean with no damage anywhere. Everything seems to work as it's supposed to. I was very impressed.
The seats are really comfortable. It doesn't ride as poorly as the Y Performance I tested in 2020 did, nor is it as loud. Road noise is still present, but it's not as noisy as a Honda. It's probably right in line with the Golf, minus the engine drone.
The computer will take some getting used to, especially the speedometer. But most of the controls that I needed to access while driving were easily accessed.
And fucking hell is it quick. 80-100 is a snap. 0-70 is scary (and kinda hurt my neck tbh).
The Golf is nearly stock - only the folding mirrors, dogbone mount and euro tails remain. Those will be off this weekend and then it will be sold. The Golf is the best car I've owned to date, and I will miss it.
I really miss my Golf at times but the Tesla is in another league.
Congrats on the new car and hope you enjoy it! The speed is intoxicating, definitely doesn't get old. Just wish they gave options for wheel designs because I hate the uberturbines.
I'm guessing those 80-100 runs were done in Mexico right?
I'm torn on the Uberturbines. I think they can look decent with non-stretched tires, a drop and maybe some spacers. But the other part of me says get 18s.
I'm torn on the Uberturbines. I think they can look decent with non-stretched tires, a drop and maybe some spacers. But the other part of me says get 18s.
I honestly love the look of mine when it's wearing 18's and winters, actually like the look way more than the summer look. Unfortunately you can't fit the stock 18" aero wheels over the performance brakes.
I'm half considering getting another set of the same wheels with summer tires lol.
Congrats on taking delivery! Glad to hear it went smooth. I got a chance to try a friend's Model 3 and was pleasantly surprised by the seats. Guess EVs don't even need a break-in period like most new cars.
Maybe I missed it, but what's required to set up home charging?
Congrats on taking delivery! Glad to hear it went smooth. I got a chance to try a friend's Model 3 and was pleasantly surprised by the seats. Guess EVs don't even need a break-in period like most new cars.
Maybe I missed it, but what's required to set up home charging?
There's three options:
Use a standard 110v 15 or 20A outlet with the included mobile charger.
Cost: Free
Speed: 1-3 miles added per hour of charge
Install a 14-30 (30A) or 14-50 (50A) outlet with the included mobile charger + correct adapter
Cost: $45 for the adapter, plus wiring, the outlet, faceplate, breaker, outlet box, and conduit (if you're not running it in wall)
Speed: 20 miles for 30A or 30 miles for 50A
Install a Tesla wall connector
Cost: $550, plus wiring, breaker and conduit (if you're not running it in wall)
Speed: Up to 44 miles on a 60A circuit
I was originally going to go with option 2, but decided on option 3. Nema 14-30 and 14-50 outlets aren't really meant for repeated connects and disconnects, so the outlet will eventually wear out. Secondly, the outlets at Lowes and HD are shit, and most suggest going with a Hubbell or Bryant (owned by Hubbell, same part, slightly cheaper) outlet, and those range from $50-100. I also didn't want to remember to pack up the charger everytime we were going on a trip - though I could buy another mobile charger for $275.
In my scenario, if I went with option 2 plus a second mobile charger, it was going to be about $430 for everything.
I managed to get 4/3 Romex at Lowes for $4.xx/ft (it's since gone up to $10/ft) and a 60A breaker for $13. So I'm all in on the wall connecter for about $620, plus it looks cooler and gives me faster charging times.
This was all for a self install - YMMV with an electrician installing this stuff.
Originally Posted by 00TL-P3.2
I was going to say that the turbine wheels look pretty good.
It was flawless. Every panel gap is consistent. There were no paint defects from what I could find (just a little bit of glue from the wrap applied for transport). The interior was clean with no damage anywhere. Everything seems to work as it's supposed to. I was very impressed.
Jesus Christ one minute with a Tesla and you've already become an annoying Tesla fanboi. You're fucking delusional there's no way the panel gaps were perfect, read a fucking news article you moron, every Telsa made is poorly designed, the roof is about to fly off, there's no brake pads and it's about to self combust! Teslas are the real internal combustion engine.
I hope you don't autopilot yourself into a telephone pole...
Was your home's breaker in your garage? I forgot what you told me before...
Breaker panel in the garage, and the charger is installed a few feet from it.
Originally Posted by #1 STUNNA
Jesus Christ one minute with a Tesla and you've already become an annoying Tesla fanboi. You're fucking delusional there's no way the panel gaps were perfect, read a fucking news article you moron, every Telsa made is poorly designed, the roof is about to fly off, there's no brake pads and it's about to self combust! Teslas are the real internal combustion engine.
I hope you don't autopilot yourself into a telephone pole...
Love you too boo!
BTW, should I expect to get paid in retweets, or am I not welcome into the Tesla Shill Club because I actually own one?
Jesus Christ one minute with a Tesla and you've already become an annoying Tesla fanboi. You're fucking delusional there's no way the panel gaps were perfect, read a fucking news article you moron, every Telsa made is poorly designed, the roof is about to fly off, there's no brake pads and it's about to self combust! Teslas are the real internal combustion engine.
I hope you don't autopilot yourself into a telephone pole...
Jesus Christ one minute with a Tesla and you've already become an annoying Tesla fanboi. You're fucking delusional there's no way the panel gaps were perfect, read a fucking news article you moron, every Telsa made is poorly designed, the roof is about to fly off, there's no brake pads and it's about to self combust! Teslas are the real internal combustion engine.
I hope you don't autopilot yourself into a telephone pole...
How about you not walk into someone's personal thread documenting their enthusiast journey lasting years and shit all over the place? And, yes, I'm speaking as a mod right now.
How about you not walk into someone's personal thread documenting their enthusiast journey lasting years and shit all over the place? And, yes, I'm speaking as a mod right now.
I sort of invited it by posting a link in the Tesla sales thread. But yeah...
I sort of invited it by posting a link in the Tesla sales thread. But yeah...
Well, I have no mod powers over there, and I do here. He can complain to admins if he wants about uneven moderating, but I'm not putting up with the nonsense over here.
Use a standard 110v 15 or 20A outlet with the included mobile charger.
Cost: Free
Speed: 1-3 miles added per hour of charge
Install a 14-30 (30A) or 14-50 (50A) outlet with the included mobile charger + correct adapter
Cost: $45 for the adapter, plus wiring, the outlet, faceplate, breaker, outlet box, and conduit (if you're not running it in wall)
Speed: 20 miles for 30A or 30 miles for 50A
Install a Tesla wall connector
Cost: $550, plus wiring, breaker and conduit (if you're not running it in wall)
Speed: Up to 44 miles on a 60A circuit
I was originally going to go with option 2, but decided on option 3. Nema 14-30 and 14-50 outlets aren't really meant for repeated connects and disconnects, so the outlet will eventually wear out. Secondly, the outlets at Lowes and HD are shit, and most suggest going with a Hubbell or Bryant (owned by Hubbell, same part, slightly cheaper) outlet, and those range from $50-100. I also didn't want to remember to pack up the charger everytime we were going on a trip - though I could buy another mobile charger for $275.
In my scenario, if I went with option 2 plus a second mobile charger, it was going to be about $430 for everything.
I managed to get 4/3 Romex at Lowes for $4.xx/ft (it's since gone up to $10/ft) and a 60A breaker for $13. So I'm all in on the wall connecter for about $620, plus it looks cooler and gives me faster charging times.
This was all for a self install - YMMV with an electrician installing this stuff.
They're definitely growing on me.
I've done a few Tesla Chargers now for friends and the best place I've found to buy breakers and outlets was Zoro.com. Was able to get a good deal on some 50A two pole Eaton breakers and Bryant outlets. THe price has gone up significantly though on the outlet https://www.zoro.com/bryant-receptac...a%20receptacle
The breakers I would assume depend on the type of panel you're working with as well - mine is a SquareD HOM panel. Also, depending on what NEC version your state adopted, a GFCI is required for an outlet (NEC 2020 is a firm requirement, NEC 2017 depends on the amperage, I believe). GFCI breakers are dumb expensive, and they can cause issues with the mobile chargers. Thankfully a wall connector doesn't require that.
And yeah, Zoro had the best price for the Hubbell 14-50; another site had the Bryant for about $20 less though.
But I still prefer the wall connector lol
My car hasn't received the latest updates, so I can't see the cost yet
01-12-2022, 10:43 PM
Congrats on taking delivery! Glad to hear it went smooth. I got a chance to try a friend's Model 3 and was pleasantly surprised by the seats. Guess EVs don't even need a break-in period like most new cars. 
cash on top on your end.
https://www.zoro.com/bryant-receptac...a%20receptacle
