JJ4Short

I have been on this site a little over a year and a half and all I have heard is bitching about a flagship V8?! Why Why Why does Acura need this? I really want to know what is the big deal about a V8 that people bitch and moan about it so much. So enlighten me, give me a good argument as to why and change my outlook on this.

pebe

So they can be like Dodge and Chysler

I see no reason for a V8 unless its in a SUV and you do alot of towing or you drink it because you arent getting your veggies elsewhere.

Im sure driving a V8 powered rear-drive car is tits, but I would never get one considering gas prices these days. A high powered 4 banger or nice 6 is just fine, especially in these speed restricted lands we travel on. My

fdl

cuz v8's rock.

Crazy Bimmer

TORQUE


Most people do city driving and low end torque is what helps. Pushing a heavy car with a V6 aint cutting it. IMO of course

Yumcha

See, that never made any sense to me. Why would you want a gas-guzzling tank to drive within a city...?


V6s have plenty of torque as do V4s if you buy the right car.

SPUDMTN

Well, if Acura wants to be considered a full-fledged luxury marque, they need to have the goods. The luxury market is all about excess, so the more cylinders the better. It's not about whether or not the majority purchases the V8 model (or V12, for that matter) it's about offering it there, as a halo car. Luxury brands are all about dazzle and a lack of restraint. People want to be pampered and feel like they're getting something extra. This is reasonable, right?

Having a V8 as an option adds to curb-appeal and adds to the whole idea of excess (which equates to "ooo...luxury")...in other words, it's all about marketing.

I like the idea of Acura offering a vehicle positioned above the RL with at least an 8-cylinder engine of some sort in it (or something that equates to as much power and torque as an 8-cylinder vehicle). I personally would be just as happy (and think the rest of us Acura gurus) with a big-bodied V6-hybrid--with a turbo possibly?--producing some incredible numbers (think 350hp with 350+ torque). Heck, with all of these talks about a Honda V10, we may just see some sort of full-sized luxury sedan concept in the near future.

The problem I see, is that Acura is one of the only luxury marques that does not have a full-fledged prestige-luxury sedan. A sedan in this segment would show exactly what Honda/Acura is capable of doing from a "money-no-object" stadpoint. I think this would be an especially interesting project for Honda, considering it would translate into a somewhat restrained, incredibly sophisticated, high-powered, high-performance elegant, technologically advanced, cottling prestige luxury sedan.

So that, in a nut shell, is why many of us want to see a full-fledged Acura flagship sedan (and part of the reason why something with 8-cylinders is so vital). But I am concerned that if Honda decided to take this on, it would turn into a smaller-scale Phaeton-esque flop (considering the way Acura has handled marketing and selling of RL's).

Crazy Bimmer

Also the gas argument is weak. It aint the 1970s anymore.


RL Automatic: : 18 mpg / 26 mpg


750il 17 mpg / 25 mpg
M45 17 mpg / 23 mpg
A6 4.2 17 mpg / 23 mpg
GS430 18 mpg / 25 mpg
LS430 18 mpg / 25 mpg

It can be done these days. Im sure there are others but you get the idea

fdl

most real luxury cars owners dont care very much about gas mileage.

F23A4

Forget flagships (Q/LS/7-series/S-Class), just ask M45/GS430/545-550i/E500 owners/buyers a why they didnt opt for the RL.

But if it makes you feel any better, I'd get Acura's flagship in a heart beat over that of Volvo or Saab.

Crazy88

The least Acura could do, is to offer a V8 option on the RL.

Mercedes, BMW, Audi, VW, Jaguar, Infiniti, Lexus (even Caddy and Lincoln) all have V8 flagships and some even offer V12s. Why cant Acura have a V8 flagship?

If I were ever in the market for a large high dollar sedan, I would not settle for a V6.

As far as I'm concerned 4 and 6 cylinder cars are fine for my uses. I would have no use for a V8. BUT if I struck gold and if I were shopping for a high dollar car I would get a V8 without question. They go hand and hand.

SiGGy

thank you! The exact thought was running through my head.

People don't keep up on current technology and run on old assumptions without educating themselfs to whats current. Easy to hate something if you never look to see if it has changed

bgsm1th

I was looking at the MPG difference between the V6 Lexus GS300 and the V8 GS430, it was ALMOST non-existant, 1-2 MPG at most...

SiGGy

I agree, Honda (Acura) is just way too conservative though. They are a mis-marketed & highly conservative as shown by their current vehicle line-up. It's hard to take them seriosuly with their current marketing campaign. And frankly it'll take years to fix the public outlook on Acura in the luxury market. Selling a 4cyl kids car was mistake #1 IMO. Your in getting your $50k RL fixed when a Kids RSX with a fart can rolls in behind you...

What's funny is people always say "oh Acura that's just a Honda right?" people rarely/never say "Lexus, thats just a Toyota right?" or "Infinity, thats just a Nissan right?" More people actually see those brands as something seperate and unique. Honda hasn't made Acura unique enough to be taken seriously by themselfs.

Crazy88

Couldent have said it any better

JJ4Short

Best argument so far. The rest of them sounded like "I need a hemi!" type arguments this makes more sense.

Bdog

To me a current V8 is just a workhorse of an engine. They will go 200,000+ miles with very little maintance nowadays, you can cruise down the interstate pushing 4000+lbs at 70mph taching 1500rpm's getting 28mpg and it feels like it's idling. You can't look at this as hp to hp in a car, you can't put a 1.8 liter turbo 250hp engine in a 4500lb car and have a flagship automobile.

SPUDMTN

Acura hadn't been anything special for quite a while--the Acura "Dark Ages", which ranged from 1996-2002 or so, was filled with unremarkable vehicles. Don't get me wrong, the products were of high quality, were handsome, well balanced, and were incredible values. But they were not exceptional at anything. I think this is where Honda has gone wrong with Acura. They need to pin down their clientele and cater to them (almost exclusively). A luxury manufacturer cannot be everything for everyone. Acura must, therefor, pick a direction that they want to head in, and go on it. A luxury car needs to be as unique as its client base and cater exclusively to that audience. For example, someone who buys a Lexus is different from someone who buys a BMW. One who purchases an Audi has very different values when compared to a Mercedes-Benz shopper. Instead of offer a one-size-fits all vehicle, products need to be designed to meet the needs of the targeted consumer. And instead of making one generalized product, Acura should be making various models that meets the various needs of their target group. Mercedes-Benz has been very successful at doing this in that they make a product for all of their customer's needs, without alienating their target group (think R-class, GL-class, S-class...each is a very different vehicle that still hits that sweet spot for nearly all of their customers). Acura should really follow this model.

Right now, however, I think that Acura has the goods. The cars are performance-oriented, extremely luxurious, offer understated elegance, high power, and offer incredible quality. The only thing they need to work on is making their exterior designs just a wee-bit more distinctive and they need to unite the designs, so that each product has the same family look. And also important: they need a new marketing technique, or rather, they need to emphasize marketing. Essentially, they need all-around direction. With a more defined direction, they'll be in tip-top shape.

rezurex

honda does make v8's for CART (2.5L v8) and they perform very very well. danica patrick's car uses a honda v8, if i remember correctly.

so we know they can make em, i have no idea why they dont put them into production cars

MDX, RL can use v8's. a "type R" version of the TL with SH-AWD with v8 would be sick but thats just wishful thinking

Crazy88

i think i would keel over if honda made a v8 production.

i hope they do

Ken1997TL

Honda is working on it too.

On the other hand.. they've had proposals for a V8 flagship as far back as the '96 RL.. and it turned out to be much tamer than it originally was supposed to be.

SiGGy

I totally disagree with part of what your saying...

Acura only makes one luxury car and thats the RL, the rest are all near luxury. For a car to be labeled as luxury they have to use all real materials. Only the RL does this. And the RL is about as exciting looking outside as a Honda Accord.

Performance oriented? Cross comparing performance numbers between brands brings Honda's HP numbers way low. $ per HP they might win, but that's it. Even the new non-M 3 series has a 300+ hp 6 cyl available. Lexus has a 300+ HP 6...

Honda (Acura) is pigeon holing themself into a corner with their conservative actions. Sure they are a bit cheaper than the rest. But you do get a bit more if you spend the extra $$ with other manufacturers. But really when it comes down to it, it's good Honda filles the marketing gap it does. However for those with a bit extra $$ to spend it forces them to look elsewhere.

I totally agree with what your saying on marketing strategy and vehicle line-up. However it's basically what I have been saying for years now, and years to come I imagine. I personally have lost interest in Acura and have been following other Luxury manufacturers who have what I'm looking for.

GIBSON6594

It does?

rezurex

not only does acura need a V8, but they need to stop putting FWD on their near luxery vehicles. if the CL-S was RWD, it would be 10x the car it is right now. Lexus, Infiniti offer RWD cars... why wont acura? sure now they have SH-AWD, but people are passing on the RL for its bland looks and lack of v8.

i heard rumors about a v8 or possibly turbocharged v6 SH-AWD CL replacement ETA 2007 for USDM. i suppose they want it to compete with the GT-R from infiniti im looking forward to seeing what acura will offer in the coming years... maybe then i will go back to the acura lineup but for now acura is not appealing at all to me.


also, the NSX is long overdue for a v8. sure supercharging an NSX, or turbocharging it can make it one hell of a beast but FWIW the NSX needs a v8.

also i think its interesting to note that several years back, if anyone said that acura would offer AWD, and factory turbo charged engines in production models, they would've scoffed. i think with the turbo RDX and the SH-AWD system honda/acura is stepping away from its conservative FWD/v6 mentality

Infamous425

no it doesnt.... not until 07 when the 335 is released

Ken1997TL

Well your prayers have been answered and then some. It has been confirmed officially by Honda that it will receive a V-10

Sarlacc

Well, not really.

I believe there were one or two models of hondas with a factory turbo offered in Japan in the 80's...either a prelude or legend...I think prelude.

And honda inovated All wheel steering on production vehicles...so its not unliley that would one day move to AWD.

rezurex

v-10!! that is teh sickness! im guessing it would be $100k+ though

Sarlacc

JJ...you want the real answer go experience it for yourself.

You want see what one of quietest most refined powerful engines can do for you...go drive a Lexus LS.

You want to see what balls out powerful, deep throaty beasts a V8 can be go drive a corvette, or a any of the dodge SRT8 vehicles.

rezurex

yea one of the c-series motor had a turbo back in the day (80's i believe), but after that for a long while it was all NA motors. even with the lesser powered 4 bangers which they could've easily turbocharged for extra power, they opted not to. instead they focused on high revving NA engines with emphasis on lift... well atleast thats the impression i have of honda. i was pretty surprised to hear that they were making a factory turbo engine.

honda/acura also took a fairly long time to move to AWD on a sedan. BMW, Benz, Infiniti, audi, etc all jumped on the AWD sedan bandwagon before acura. off the top of my head i can't think of a luxery import car manufacturer that has yet to offer an AWD sedan...

but in other areas honda/acura were pioneers. having xenon lights as a standard option on many vehicles for one, as well as the first manufacturer to offer Navi in a production car. for sure the MDX is a great car, my family owns one (and i drive it pretty often) and i am quite impressed with it. the current gen TL is a nice car, but i wish it was RWD (as i do with the CL-S). maybe its just me

1killercls

Oh "Real Men of Genius" who drive teh V4...we salute you!

JnC

iTrader: (12)

took two paged before someone caught that.

Ken1997TL

Actually V-4's DO exist but are very uncommon for many obvious reasons. I think Lancia and Ford are the only ones to do so in cars. Honda makes V-4's in motorcycles.

vishnus11

i kinda agree witht the OP in that a V6 is more than plentiful for around town driving and interstate crusing. I find my TL to be a more-than-powerful enough motor for my purposes, and heck, mine's a first gen (200hp, 210lb-ft)

Sure it won't win a drag race with a 'stang, but then their's not much point in puttin a V8 in a RL to win drag races, if the object is smoothness and refined luxury. Having driven an 05 RL, i found it to be plenty powerful, and it pulled healthily in top gear from 80mph. Sure, to REALLY extract some power out of it, you had to rev it a little high, but in my opinion that only made it more sweeter. Again, this is coming from a guy, who next car in the coming months is (hopefully) gonna be an s2000, a top end screamer

I also had the opportunity to drive a LS400 the other day, and yes while it was tourquey low down, I really didn't see much of that added benefit in around town driving. I must admit that freeway passing was a tad more effortless at 80-90mph.

I think that in order to address the problems of "lack of torque" that certain clientile complain of, low down in the rev range, Acura should port its IMA hybrid system into the RL, and use it to assist the engine, especially lower down, in order to provide more "ooopmh" As a side benefit, it would also benefit fuel economy.

Last but not least, despite what the EPA claims, I still think that in real world day to day driving, the RL would likely give significantly better gas mileage when compared to its V8 competitors.

SiGGy

BMW already slated a 300+hp 3.5 liter for the 3 series.

The current 3 series will basically get the current M3 engine (very similar) available. As the new M3 is getting a V8. This will happen when the 07 models start to come out. Since it's 2006 already that won't be long. Unless BMW delays it for one reason or another.

Go go even further a 07 Toyota Camry will have a 3.5-liter V-6 that makes 268hp.

GreenMonster

Cause all the other "big kids" have V8's, that's why

bgsm1th

that really is the biggest reason why.
There are few people that NEED that kind of power, but it's not a matter of neccesity. To most enthusiasts, if you are looking to spend $50k-60k and your choices are between a V6 and a V8, game over.

fsttyms1

My dads caddy with a V8 gets better mileage than my 6, has alot more power, and is generally nicer to cruise along with than the V6. Not every one wants to have to wind the crap out a motor to get "Plenty" of Torque and Hp. Having it right there effortless is very nice for city and hwy crusing.
V8's rule and every one is going that direction except honda/acura.


hahaha

mrdeeno

even volvo is going with a v8...it's a yamaha designed unit, but it is at least offering it.

no company needs a v8 and no driver needs a v8. but this is the U.S., where no one needs to "supersize" their value meals either.

for the general U.S. population, what we want is usually greater than what we need.

Stapler

Have any info on that bmw engine, Till now All the rumors I heard were that it was gonna be a turbo car, and only cary the extra numerals at the end so people knew it was more powerfull, not actually be 3.5 litters. (bmw hasn't had a 3.5 litter gas 6 since the 535 and m5 of e34 fame.)

SiGGy

No, it'll be out sooner than later though. So we will all know soon enough.