Rivian: R1T News
02-17-2019, 07:44 AM
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
Rivian: R1T News
After spending the better part of the last decade operating completely out of the spotlight, US-based automotive startup Rivian has finally debuted its first electric vehicle: a five-passenger pickup truck called the R1T. Announced on Monday at the Los Angeles Auto Show, the R1T is positioned as a dream truck for outdoorsy types, combining the utility of a Ford Ranger or Toyota Tacoma with bleeding edge technology — all while putting out zero emissions, meaning owners can help reduce the harm being done to the natural world the company’s vehicles are meant to explore.
A big part of Rivian’s long, meticulous road to this debut has been all about making sure the R1T (and a sibling SUV scheduled to be revealed on Tuesday) offer top-of-the-line specs when it comes to performance and range. The result is a quad-motor electric pickup truck capable of up to over 400 miles of range that’s able to reach 60 miles per hour in three seconds, putting Rivian’s first offering in rare air typically reserved for Teslas and supercars.
In accordance with all that, the R1T will be outfitted with a dream car price tag when it goes on sale in 2020. The base model starts at $69,000, with different battery configurations running the truck’s price ceiling to around $100,000. Preorders start this week and require a (refundable) $1,000 deposit. [
The R1T will be available in three different battery pack variants, though all will feature an electric motor on each wheel, offering precise all-wheel drive performance no matter how much power is available. The biggest version of the truck will have a 180kWh battery that will allow more than 400 miles of range, according to Rivian. (That’s 80 kWh more than the highest-capacity car Tesla currently sells.) A 135kWh version of the R1T will eclipse 300 miles. The smallest — equipped with a 105kWh pack that will give the truck about 230 miles of range — will be available “within six months” following the launch of the others.
All three versions of the truck have a top speed of 125 miles per hour. The midrange battery pack version is the quickest, according to Rivian, hitting 60 miles per hour in three seconds flat, thanks to a total power output of 562kW (about 750 horsepower). The 400-mile battery version of the truck sends 522kW (about 700 horsepower) to the gearbox and will hit the 60 mph mark in 3.2 seconds. The cheaper short-range version will go from 0 to 60 mph in 4.9 seconds, with 300kW of power (about 400 horsepower) on offer.
Dimension-wise, the R1T is most directly comparable to the new Ford Ranger or the newest Toyota Tacoma, though there are differences. Rivian’s electric pickup has a slightly longer wheelbase (135.8 inches) than the Ranger (127 inches) or the Tacoma (127.4 inches). At 226 inches overall, it is longer than the Ranger (210.8 inches) and the Tacoma (212.3 inches). Rivian’s truck is a smidge taller than both, too, measuring 71.5 inches to the Ranger’s 70.7-inch height or the Tacoma’s 70.6-inch stance.
RivianThe R1T is not quite as wide as the Ranger, with Rivian’s truck measuring 79.3 inches compared to the Ranger’s width of 85.8 inches. (The base model of the Tacoma measures 74.4 inches wide). The R1T has a payload of about 1,760 pounds, which is shy of the Ranger’s 2,080-pound capacity, but it far exceeds the Tacoma’s 1,175-pound limit.
The Ford Ranger and the Toyota Tacoma start at around $25,000, so they easily beat the R1T on price. But Rivian promises the R1T will deliver more than what you’d find in a conventional pickup truck of this size. For one thing, the R1T has a towing capacity of 11,000 pounds, which is more comparable to the capability of a higher-end F-150. There’s also a bounty of storage space in the R1T, thanks to the fact that the battery and electric drivetrain are all located on the floor of the vehicle.
The front trunk offers 11.7 cubic feet (330 liters) of storage space, and there’s a 12.4 cubic foot (350-liter) “gear tunnel” that sits between the cab and the bed and runs the entire width of the vehicle, which Rivian says is ideal for things like skis, golf bags, fishing rods, or even lumber. And there’s a storage compartment in the floor of the bed that’s big enough for a spare tire.
Rivian has packed its first vehicle with loads of technology, too. A 15.6-inch touchscreen display dominates the middle of the dashboard, echoing the screen-first approach of Tesla’s Model 3. Another 12.3-inch screen takes the place of what are, historically, physical dials in the instrument cluster behind the steering wheel. A third 6.8-inch touchscreen is found at the back of the center console, providing infotainment and climate control access to rear passengers. Some of the only buttons to be found are the thumb dials on the steering wheel, another echo of the Model 3.
Meanwhile, three 110-volt power outlets can be found in the pickup’s bed, allowing owners to use the truck’s big battery to charge devices or power tools on the go. There’s a built-in compressed air source for filling bike tires. And Rivian has built in some clever security measures, too. Cables in the bed, which help strap down gear, are linked into the truck’s digital architecture in such a way that will alert the owner if they’re tampered with. Cameras watching the bed can also alert an owner to potential thefts.
Being an electric vehicle made in the late 2010s, the truck is unsurprisingly equipped with hardware that Rivian says will allow it to one day drive itself. That includes those cameras, as well as LIDAR, radar, ultrasonic, and “high-precision” GPS technologies, according to Rivian. This tech will allow for “eyes off, hands off” driving on the highway, the company says, and one day will make it possible for the truck to do more impressive things in the future, like meet a driver at the end of a hiking trail or river run.
“They may have different form factors, they may be different sizes, but every single one of [our products] has to have this Patagonia-like feel of enabling adventure,” Rivian CEO and founder RJ Scaringe tells The Verge. “We want to keep that very sharp. We want to focus only on the adventure space, so customers understand what we stand for.”“IT’S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR US THAT THE VEHICLE FEELS COMFORTABLE GETTING DIRTY.” That doesn’t necessarily mean you have to regularly kayak white-water rapids to enjoy the R1T, Scaringe says. Instead, he’s trying to imbue the brand with an aspirational quality from the get-go. That materializes in the storage and other utility features and in the truck’s design.
“From a design point of view, it’s really important for us that the vehicle feels comfortable getting dirty and looks robust and rugged, but at the same time is sophisticated and intelligent,” Scaringe says. “[We’re] combining an aesthetic that communicates a level of technology, a level of refinement, a level of sophistication, while still being something that still looks natural going through the woods, going on the beach, going over some pretty gnarly trails.”A number of EV startups have spent the last decade trying to follow in Tesla’s wake, but almost none of them have succeeded in putting a car on the road. Faraday Future garnered a ton of attention and soaked up a lot of talent and funding, only to find itself on the brink of bankruptcy for the second year in a row. Fisker, LeEco, and others have faced similar struggles. Lucid Motors was nearly out of money before recently securing enough funding from Saudi Arabia to launch its first electric luxury sedan in 2020. One of the only high-profile startups to put a car on the road is China’s NIO.
That’s a pretty bad track record considering many of these high-profile startups haven’t made it to the hardest part: production. Rivian will have to face that same challenge soon enough. But the company’s slow, steady, and quiet approach means the attention (and the pressure to produce) is arriving well after the foundation is in place. Rivian has a manufacturing facility secured and ready to go in Illinois. It has 600 employees working across two locations in California, one in Michigan, and one in the UK. It also has come out laser-focused on a niche — though Tesla is planning an electric pickup, which Elon Musk says he’s “personally most excited about” compared to the company’s other planned offerings.
“We were quiet in stealth mode to avoid getting caught in this sort of hype cycle, and we said let’s make sure we have all the pieces lined up — the vehicle, the technology, the team, the supply chain, the manufacturing plant — before we actually talk about it,” Scaringe says. “Because of that, some people have been questioning [us]. People need to see that this is very, very real.”
On a more personal level, Scaringe says he’s relieved to finally shed some light on all the things that Rivian’s been up to. “Basically the majority of my adult life has been focused on this, and we finally get to show it,” he says. “I’m excited.”
A big part of Rivian’s long, meticulous road to this debut has been all about making sure the R1T (and a sibling SUV scheduled to be revealed on Tuesday) offer top-of-the-line specs when it comes to performance and range. The result is a quad-motor electric pickup truck capable of up to over 400 miles of range that’s able to reach 60 miles per hour in three seconds, putting Rivian’s first offering in rare air typically reserved for Teslas and supercars.
In accordance with all that, the R1T will be outfitted with a dream car price tag when it goes on sale in 2020. The base model starts at $69,000, with different battery configurations running the truck’s price ceiling to around $100,000. Preorders start this week and require a (refundable) $1,000 deposit. [
The R1T will be available in three different battery pack variants, though all will feature an electric motor on each wheel, offering precise all-wheel drive performance no matter how much power is available. The biggest version of the truck will have a 180kWh battery that will allow more than 400 miles of range, according to Rivian. (That’s 80 kWh more than the highest-capacity car Tesla currently sells.) A 135kWh version of the R1T will eclipse 300 miles. The smallest — equipped with a 105kWh pack that will give the truck about 230 miles of range — will be available “within six months” following the launch of the others.
All three versions of the truck have a top speed of 125 miles per hour. The midrange battery pack version is the quickest, according to Rivian, hitting 60 miles per hour in three seconds flat, thanks to a total power output of 562kW (about 750 horsepower). The 400-mile battery version of the truck sends 522kW (about 700 horsepower) to the gearbox and will hit the 60 mph mark in 3.2 seconds. The cheaper short-range version will go from 0 to 60 mph in 4.9 seconds, with 300kW of power (about 400 horsepower) on offer.
Dimension-wise, the R1T is most directly comparable to the new Ford Ranger or the newest Toyota Tacoma, though there are differences. Rivian’s electric pickup has a slightly longer wheelbase (135.8 inches) than the Ranger (127 inches) or the Tacoma (127.4 inches). At 226 inches overall, it is longer than the Ranger (210.8 inches) and the Tacoma (212.3 inches). Rivian’s truck is a smidge taller than both, too, measuring 71.5 inches to the Ranger’s 70.7-inch height or the Tacoma’s 70.6-inch stance.
RivianThe R1T is not quite as wide as the Ranger, with Rivian’s truck measuring 79.3 inches compared to the Ranger’s width of 85.8 inches. (The base model of the Tacoma measures 74.4 inches wide). The R1T has a payload of about 1,760 pounds, which is shy of the Ranger’s 2,080-pound capacity, but it far exceeds the Tacoma’s 1,175-pound limit.
The Ford Ranger and the Toyota Tacoma start at around $25,000, so they easily beat the R1T on price. But Rivian promises the R1T will deliver more than what you’d find in a conventional pickup truck of this size. For one thing, the R1T has a towing capacity of 11,000 pounds, which is more comparable to the capability of a higher-end F-150. There’s also a bounty of storage space in the R1T, thanks to the fact that the battery and electric drivetrain are all located on the floor of the vehicle.
The front trunk offers 11.7 cubic feet (330 liters) of storage space, and there’s a 12.4 cubic foot (350-liter) “gear tunnel” that sits between the cab and the bed and runs the entire width of the vehicle, which Rivian says is ideal for things like skis, golf bags, fishing rods, or even lumber. And there’s a storage compartment in the floor of the bed that’s big enough for a spare tire.
Rivian has packed its first vehicle with loads of technology, too. A 15.6-inch touchscreen display dominates the middle of the dashboard, echoing the screen-first approach of Tesla’s Model 3. Another 12.3-inch screen takes the place of what are, historically, physical dials in the instrument cluster behind the steering wheel. A third 6.8-inch touchscreen is found at the back of the center console, providing infotainment and climate control access to rear passengers. Some of the only buttons to be found are the thumb dials on the steering wheel, another echo of the Model 3.
Meanwhile, three 110-volt power outlets can be found in the pickup’s bed, allowing owners to use the truck’s big battery to charge devices or power tools on the go. There’s a built-in compressed air source for filling bike tires. And Rivian has built in some clever security measures, too. Cables in the bed, which help strap down gear, are linked into the truck’s digital architecture in such a way that will alert the owner if they’re tampered with. Cameras watching the bed can also alert an owner to potential thefts.
Being an electric vehicle made in the late 2010s, the truck is unsurprisingly equipped with hardware that Rivian says will allow it to one day drive itself. That includes those cameras, as well as LIDAR, radar, ultrasonic, and “high-precision” GPS technologies, according to Rivian. This tech will allow for “eyes off, hands off” driving on the highway, the company says, and one day will make it possible for the truck to do more impressive things in the future, like meet a driver at the end of a hiking trail or river run.
“They may have different form factors, they may be different sizes, but every single one of [our products] has to have this Patagonia-like feel of enabling adventure,” Rivian CEO and founder RJ Scaringe tells The Verge. “We want to keep that very sharp. We want to focus only on the adventure space, so customers understand what we stand for.”“IT’S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR US THAT THE VEHICLE FEELS COMFORTABLE GETTING DIRTY.” That doesn’t necessarily mean you have to regularly kayak white-water rapids to enjoy the R1T, Scaringe says. Instead, he’s trying to imbue the brand with an aspirational quality from the get-go. That materializes in the storage and other utility features and in the truck’s design.
“From a design point of view, it’s really important for us that the vehicle feels comfortable getting dirty and looks robust and rugged, but at the same time is sophisticated and intelligent,” Scaringe says. “[We’re] combining an aesthetic that communicates a level of technology, a level of refinement, a level of sophistication, while still being something that still looks natural going through the woods, going on the beach, going over some pretty gnarly trails.”A number of EV startups have spent the last decade trying to follow in Tesla’s wake, but almost none of them have succeeded in putting a car on the road. Faraday Future garnered a ton of attention and soaked up a lot of talent and funding, only to find itself on the brink of bankruptcy for the second year in a row. Fisker, LeEco, and others have faced similar struggles. Lucid Motors was nearly out of money before recently securing enough funding from Saudi Arabia to launch its first electric luxury sedan in 2020. One of the only high-profile startups to put a car on the road is China’s NIO.
That’s a pretty bad track record considering many of these high-profile startups haven’t made it to the hardest part: production. Rivian will have to face that same challenge soon enough. But the company’s slow, steady, and quiet approach means the attention (and the pressure to produce) is arriving well after the foundation is in place. Rivian has a manufacturing facility secured and ready to go in Illinois. It has 600 employees working across two locations in California, one in Michigan, and one in the UK. It also has come out laser-focused on a niche — though Tesla is planning an electric pickup, which Elon Musk says he’s “personally most excited about” compared to the company’s other planned offerings.
“We were quiet in stealth mode to avoid getting caught in this sort of hype cycle, and we said let’s make sure we have all the pieces lined up — the vehicle, the technology, the team, the supply chain, the manufacturing plant — before we actually talk about it,” Scaringe says. “Because of that, some people have been questioning [us]. People need to see that this is very, very real.”
On a more personal level, Scaringe says he’s relieved to finally shed some light on all the things that Rivian’s been up to. “Basically the majority of my adult life has been focused on this, and we finally get to show it,” he says. “I’m excited.”
Last edited by biker; 02-17-2019 at 07:47 AM.
02-17-2019, 07:52 AM
#3
Race Director
Thread Starter
DETROIT — Amazon Inc. will lead a $700 million investment round in electric vehicle startup Rivian Automotive.
The suburban Detroit company announced the investment Friday, following reports of the companies as well as General Motors being in talks earlier in the week.
A Rivian spokesman said Amazon is one of two investors in the round, which does not include GM. The other is the company's long-term investment partner Abdul Latif Jameel Co., a Saudi auto distributor.
"This investment is an important milestone for Rivian and the shift to sustainable mobility," said Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe in a release. "Beyond simply eliminating compromises that exist around performance, capability and efficiency, we are working to drive innovation across the entire customer experience."
Just because GM is not a part of this round does not mean the company is not in talks to invest in Rivian. Earlier in the week, Reuters first reported that Amazon and GM were in talks to make investments in Rivian that could value it at between $1 billion and $2 billion.
Rivian declined to comment on the breakdown of the $700 million investment, nor would it comment the company’s valuation.
Scaringe, speaking last month at the Automotive News World Congress, discussed partnering with other brands and potentially licensing technologies to other companies in 2019.
Rivian plans to produce vehicles at the former Mitsubishi Motors Corp. plant in Normal, Ill., it acquired in 2017. Deliveries of the R1T pickup are expected to begin late 2020, followed by the SUV and four additional products through 2025.
Scaringe previously said all the planned products share the same battery and flat "skateboard" architecture.
GM executives, including CEO Mary Barra, have teased the idea of an all-electric pickup for the automaker. However, the company has never put a time frame on such a project. GM, following reports of the talks, said it admired Rivian's "contribution to a future of zero emissions and an all-electric future."
An all-electric future is part of Barra's "Triple Zero" vision: Zero crashes, zero emissions and zero congestion.
Why EV pickups make senseMorgan Stanley analyst Adam Jonas wrote in a note this week that the next and potentially imminent major product frontier for EVs will be the highly lucrative and U.S.-dominated pickup market.
"A culmination of battery cost reduction, architecture, duty cycle, and price point – e-pickups are an important area of investor focus," he said.
Having a stake in Rivian could help an automaker such as GM bring an all-electric pickup to market without straining or moving internal resources away from its full-size pickups and SUVs with internal combustion engines.
Electric pickups, according to Jonas, make sense for a number of reasons:
Amazon's interestThe benefit for a company such as Amazon, Jonas says, includes using the technology to shape electric delivery vehicles to support its own logistics efforts and tap into the $900 billion logistics industry.
Jeff Wilke, who runs Amazon's worldwide consumer division, said the tech giant is “thrilled” to invest in Rivian.
“We're inspired by Rivian's vision for the future of electric transportation,” he said in a statement. "RJ has built an impressive organization, with a product portfolio and technology to match,” he said.
The reported discussions between Rivian and GM follow Jim Farley, Ford Motor Co.'s president of global markets, reconfirming that the company would eventually be "electrifying the F series, both battery-electric and hybrid." He declined to provide a time frame or specify whether Ford would offer an electric F-150, Super Duty or both.
Ford Executive Chairman Bill Ford confirmed last year that Ford planned an F-series EV, at a celebration marking 100 years of the Rouge manufacturing complex, where the F-150 is assembled.
The suburban Detroit company announced the investment Friday, following reports of the companies as well as General Motors being in talks earlier in the week.
A Rivian spokesman said Amazon is one of two investors in the round, which does not include GM. The other is the company's long-term investment partner Abdul Latif Jameel Co., a Saudi auto distributor.
"This investment is an important milestone for Rivian and the shift to sustainable mobility," said Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe in a release. "Beyond simply eliminating compromises that exist around performance, capability and efficiency, we are working to drive innovation across the entire customer experience."
Just because GM is not a part of this round does not mean the company is not in talks to invest in Rivian. Earlier in the week, Reuters first reported that Amazon and GM were in talks to make investments in Rivian that could value it at between $1 billion and $2 billion.
Rivian declined to comment on the breakdown of the $700 million investment, nor would it comment the company’s valuation.
Scaringe, speaking last month at the Automotive News World Congress, discussed partnering with other brands and potentially licensing technologies to other companies in 2019.
Rivian plans to produce vehicles at the former Mitsubishi Motors Corp. plant in Normal, Ill., it acquired in 2017. Deliveries of the R1T pickup are expected to begin late 2020, followed by the SUV and four additional products through 2025.
Scaringe previously said all the planned products share the same battery and flat "skateboard" architecture.
GM executives, including CEO Mary Barra, have teased the idea of an all-electric pickup for the automaker. However, the company has never put a time frame on such a project. GM, following reports of the talks, said it admired Rivian's "contribution to a future of zero emissions and an all-electric future."
An all-electric future is part of Barra's "Triple Zero" vision: Zero crashes, zero emissions and zero congestion.
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Why EV pickups make senseMorgan Stanley analyst Adam Jonas wrote in a note this week that the next and potentially imminent major product frontier for EVs will be the highly lucrative and U.S.-dominated pickup market.
"A culmination of battery cost reduction, architecture, duty cycle, and price point – e-pickups are an important area of investor focus," he said.
Having a stake in Rivian could help an automaker such as GM bring an all-electric pickup to market without straining or moving internal resources away from its full-size pickups and SUVs with internal combustion engines.
Electric pickups, according to Jonas, make sense for a number of reasons:
- High torque for towing and hauling.
- Higher vehicle price points to pass on higher costs.
- Work-site applications that can work closely with the fleet to manage with charging needs.
- The ability to take advantage of electric power to run electric tools, accessories, and other applications.
Amazon's interestThe benefit for a company such as Amazon, Jonas says, includes using the technology to shape electric delivery vehicles to support its own logistics efforts and tap into the $900 billion logistics industry.
Jeff Wilke, who runs Amazon's worldwide consumer division, said the tech giant is “thrilled” to invest in Rivian.
“We're inspired by Rivian's vision for the future of electric transportation,” he said in a statement. "RJ has built an impressive organization, with a product portfolio and technology to match,” he said.
The reported discussions between Rivian and GM follow Jim Farley, Ford Motor Co.'s president of global markets, reconfirming that the company would eventually be "electrifying the F series, both battery-electric and hybrid." He declined to provide a time frame or specify whether Ford would offer an electric F-150, Super Duty or both.
Ford Executive Chairman Bill Ford confirmed last year that Ford planned an F-series EV, at a celebration marking 100 years of the Rouge manufacturing complex, where the F-150 is assembled.
02-21-2019, 11:23 AM
#4
Moderator
https://insideevs.com/rivian-truck-p...an-ford-f-150/
Recently, greentechmedia (gtm) joined the lengthy list of those enjoying one-on-one time with Scaringe. The interview is a long read, but surely worth it (more on that below). So, we’ve decided to highlight what we think is the most compelling fragment of the interview, and that’s pricing. How much will the electric pickup truck and electric SUV really cost?
GTM’s Julia Pyper asked Scaringe to talk a little about Rivian vehicle pricing. The automaker announced that the R1T electric pickup truck will have a starting price of $69,000, and the R1S SUV will start at $72,500. Much like Tesla vehicles, not only will these prices apply to the base models with smaller battery packs (less range), but they won’t be available early on. This is important to note, since Rivian has also touted vehicles with massive battery packs and 400 miles of range.
Pyper asks: Do you foresee price being a speed bump for the company?
Scaringe replies: I think that may seem high, but we have to take the context of really two things. First, we’ve strategically positioned ourselves to go after the aspirational side of this market. It’s really important to make that note; we’re not trying to compete with a $25,000 or $30,000 truck or SUV. This is a very high-performance [vehicle] and very technically advanced in terms of self-driving, in terms of connectivity architecture, in terms of battery size. The segment is going after the people who are spending $70,000 or $80,000 on a GMC Denali or a Chevy Suburban or a Land Rover Discovery or a fully loaded Ford F150.
So we’ve intentionally made sure that we’ve architected the vehicle for that premium positioning. If you come into the bottom of the markets, it’s very, very hard to push new technology.
The Rivian CEO admits that the automaker hasn’t yet released pricing information for the long-range vehicles. However, he makes it clear that Rivian will offer long-range variants that start under $90,000. This goes along with some inside information we learned at an early reveal event. A Rivian executive told us that some people may want the longest range battery, but not all the bells and whistles. So, Rivian will offer its largest battery pack in a truck and SUV that are more “stripped.”
While $90,000 is still a lot of money, it’s fantastic to know that Rivian will provide long-range products without unnecessary luxury. This is something that we haven’t seen from other automakers. For example, you can’t choose Tesla’s largest battery pack, but get the car in a more frugal configuration. Additionally, in some cases, upgrade packages are mandatory. We can’t wait until these vehicles finally come to market. Reality and timelines are beginning to seem more viable now that Amazon has made an investment and GM may jump on board as well.
As previously stated, this is one hefty interview. Of course, there are some topics that we’ve already covered, but there’s always new insight. The best part is that it’s in print, rather than video format. So, for those that would rather read than watch, this one’s for you. Follow the source link below to check out the entire interview.
Rivian CEO talks about upcoming electric pickup truck and large SUV pricing.
We’ve watched and read a multitude of interviews with Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe as of late. While we haven’t shared them all on InsideEVs, we try to bring you the best of the best, along with the most important bits of information therein.Recently, greentechmedia (gtm) joined the lengthy list of those enjoying one-on-one time with Scaringe. The interview is a long read, but surely worth it (more on that below). So, we’ve decided to highlight what we think is the most compelling fragment of the interview, and that’s pricing. How much will the electric pickup truck and electric SUV really cost?
GTM’s Julia Pyper asked Scaringe to talk a little about Rivian vehicle pricing. The automaker announced that the R1T electric pickup truck will have a starting price of $69,000, and the R1S SUV will start at $72,500. Much like Tesla vehicles, not only will these prices apply to the base models with smaller battery packs (less range), but they won’t be available early on. This is important to note, since Rivian has also touted vehicles with massive battery packs and 400 miles of range.
Pyper asks: Do you foresee price being a speed bump for the company?
Scaringe replies: I think that may seem high, but we have to take the context of really two things. First, we’ve strategically positioned ourselves to go after the aspirational side of this market. It’s really important to make that note; we’re not trying to compete with a $25,000 or $30,000 truck or SUV. This is a very high-performance [vehicle] and very technically advanced in terms of self-driving, in terms of connectivity architecture, in terms of battery size. The segment is going after the people who are spending $70,000 or $80,000 on a GMC Denali or a Chevy Suburban or a Land Rover Discovery or a fully loaded Ford F150.
So we’ve intentionally made sure that we’ve architected the vehicle for that premium positioning. If you come into the bottom of the markets, it’s very, very hard to push new technology.
The Rivian CEO admits that the automaker hasn’t yet released pricing information for the long-range vehicles. However, he makes it clear that Rivian will offer long-range variants that start under $90,000. This goes along with some inside information we learned at an early reveal event. A Rivian executive told us that some people may want the longest range battery, but not all the bells and whistles. So, Rivian will offer its largest battery pack in a truck and SUV that are more “stripped.”
While $90,000 is still a lot of money, it’s fantastic to know that Rivian will provide long-range products without unnecessary luxury. This is something that we haven’t seen from other automakers. For example, you can’t choose Tesla’s largest battery pack, but get the car in a more frugal configuration. Additionally, in some cases, upgrade packages are mandatory. We can’t wait until these vehicles finally come to market. Reality and timelines are beginning to seem more viable now that Amazon has made an investment and GM may jump on board as well.
As previously stated, this is one hefty interview. Of course, there are some topics that we’ve already covered, but there’s always new insight. The best part is that it’s in print, rather than video format. So, for those that would rather read than watch, this one’s for you. Follow the source link below to check out the entire interview.
08-21-2019, 08:38 AM
#5
Race Director
Thread Starter
The pieces of the Rivian R1T truck puzzle are mostly all in place now, so let's have a look at what's known.
Outside of perhaps the Tesla Model Y and the Tesla truck, the Rivian pickup is perhaps the most anticipated upcoming electric vehicle.
When it was revealed back at the LA Auto Show in late 2018, Rivian burst onto the scene with its R1T. From stealth to mainstream happened literally overnight. Since then, we've learn more and more in regards to this slick electric pickup truck, so below we've tried to include all of the major details on the R1T.
In regards to pricing, the Rivian R1T comes in a few different flavors, so the price tag will vary quite considerably. Additionally, no options list (which we expect to be extensive) has been released as of yet, so we really can't fully say what a maxed out R1T will cost.
However, Rivian targets a starting price of $69,000 for the base version of the R1T, but the automaker notes that top-level versions will be sold first and we suspect those will go for well over $100,000.
The easiest way to show the R1T's impressive specs is via the graphic above. It's all right there for simple viewing. Loads of power, lots of range and big batteries.
Don't forget though, the Rivian R1T is a tank-turning beast too.
There's a belief that the front headlight setup may have to change for regulation purposes, but outside of that, we think the pre-production R1T will be mostly unchanged in production form. And that's good news because it's a stunning truck.
Peruse the galleries above and below for looks at the R1T pickup.
Production of some R1T components is already underway.
First deliveries are set to begin in late 2020, though remember those will be of top-level R1Ts. The cheaper versions will follow a bit later on.
Outside of perhaps the Tesla Model Y and the Tesla truck, the Rivian pickup is perhaps the most anticipated upcoming electric vehicle.
When it was revealed back at the LA Auto Show in late 2018, Rivian burst onto the scene with its R1T. From stealth to mainstream happened literally overnight. Since then, we've learn more and more in regards to this slick electric pickup truck, so below we've tried to include all of the major details on the R1T.
Price
Unlike the promised $50,000 Tesla truck, Rivian seems to be way more realistic here.In regards to pricing, the Rivian R1T comes in a few different flavors, so the price tag will vary quite considerably. Additionally, no options list (which we expect to be extensive) has been released as of yet, so we really can't fully say what a maxed out R1T will cost.
However, Rivian targets a starting price of $69,000 for the base version of the R1T, but the automaker notes that top-level versions will be sold first and we suspect those will go for well over $100,000.
Performance And Specs
The Tesla truck's goal might be to make the Ram seem toy-like, but the Rivian R1T may well outperform the Tesla.The easiest way to show the R1T's impressive specs is via the graphic above. It's all right there for simple viewing. Loads of power, lots of range and big batteries.
Don't forget though, the Rivian R1T is a tank-turning beast too.
Appearance
Unlike the Tesla Truck, which we've yet to see outside of this one lone teaser, we know exactly what the R1T looks like, at least in pre-production form.There's a belief that the front headlight setup may have to change for regulation purposes, but outside of that, we think the pre-production R1T will be mostly unchanged in production form. And that's good news because it's a stunning truck.
Peruse the galleries above and below for looks at the R1T pickup.
Model Name
With the Tesla truck, we're still left guessing its model name (perhaps Tesla Model B), but not so with Rivian where we know for certain it will be called the R1T (T for truck). This follows the exact same naming convention as the Rivian R1S (S for SUV).Production of some R1T components is already underway.
First deliveries are set to begin in late 2020, though remember those will be of top-level R1Ts. The cheaper versions will follow a bit later on.
08-23-2019, 11:02 AM
#6
The Third Ball
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
Age: 45
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Saw Rivian at the auto show last year and have been very impressed and interested in these guys.
I know a couple people who know them and say they are the real deal.
I know a couple people who know them and say they are the real deal.
08-23-2019, 08:48 PM
#7
Fahrvergnügen'd
Someone needs to get these batteries better and way cheaper because right now there’s now way I’m able to or willing to pay $70K for an EV that’s likely a 40-50% premium over a gas engine.
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09-01-2019, 05:55 AM
#8
Race Director
Thread Starter
We’ve seen the preproduction Rivian R1T a few times at press events, and even had a chance to speak to CEO RJ Scaringe. Now, members of the Rivian Forums posted photos of the pre-production R1T actually testing in the real world. This time, they were spotted recharging after some rough and muddy trials in Tierra del Fuego, in southeastern Argentina.
These models actually look fairly close to production ready, save the swath of toggle switches in the center console. On the outside, we have our first chance to see a white R1T, as well as what the exterior “R1T” badge will look like. The charging port has moved to the driver’s side, whereas we saw it on the passenger side on the concept. As with the model we saw in LA, though, Rivian does still seem to be using Pirelli Scorpion all-terrain tires on these pre-production units.
If everything Rivian told us thus far about the R1T makes it through to production, we actually know a fair bit about the truck already. It will have four electric motors — one at each wheel — each making about 190 horsepower and 200 lb-ft of torque. Having four motors enables all-wheel drive capability, naturally, and its “skateboard” platform design coupled with air suspension gives the truck approximately 14 inches of ground clearance, according to Rivian. Multiple versions will go on sale, providing between 230 and 400+ miles of range, depending on which one you buy.
With the proper equipment, the Rivian R1T should be capable of towing around 10,000 pounds, as far as we know. The base model will set you back about $69,000 before any available incentives. Spring for the long-range version, and it’s likely you’ll be staring down a six-figure investment.
Rivian aims to put the R1T on sale late next year, and the company will build them in Normal, Illinois. Ford announced heavy investment into Rivian earlier this year, so what comes of the company’s models and technology may end up in future Ford products, as well.
These models actually look fairly close to production ready, save the swath of toggle switches in the center console. On the outside, we have our first chance to see a white R1T, as well as what the exterior “R1T” badge will look like. The charging port has moved to the driver’s side, whereas we saw it on the passenger side on the concept. As with the model we saw in LA, though, Rivian does still seem to be using Pirelli Scorpion all-terrain tires on these pre-production units.
If everything Rivian told us thus far about the R1T makes it through to production, we actually know a fair bit about the truck already. It will have four electric motors — one at each wheel — each making about 190 horsepower and 200 lb-ft of torque. Having four motors enables all-wheel drive capability, naturally, and its “skateboard” platform design coupled with air suspension gives the truck approximately 14 inches of ground clearance, according to Rivian. Multiple versions will go on sale, providing between 230 and 400+ miles of range, depending on which one you buy.
With the proper equipment, the Rivian R1T should be capable of towing around 10,000 pounds, as far as we know. The base model will set you back about $69,000 before any available incentives. Spring for the long-range version, and it’s likely you’ll be staring down a six-figure investment.
Interior features
Rivian’s prototype R1T pickup and R1S SUV have especially svelte, high-quality interiors. This prototype may represent something closer to what we’ll actually see in production, but the looks may change between now and next year. The steering wheel looks more conventional, with actual functioning buttons, and it seems to have gained some heft from the thinner concept wheel. The large center display is still there, as is the digital instrument cluster. As for the center console, those switches will definitely give way to something more elegant and stylish in the production model.Rivian aims to put the R1T on sale late next year, and the company will build them in Normal, Illinois. Ford announced heavy investment into Rivian earlier this year, so what comes of the company’s models and technology may end up in future Ford products, as well.
Rivian is certainly going way out there for cold weather testing.
12-29-2019, 03:21 AM
#9
Any idea if the Rivian will be sold through dealerships or online like the Teslas.
12-30-2019, 09:12 AM
#10
Ex-OEM King
Either way, I'd buy one of these over a cybertruck in a heartbeat.
12-30-2019, 08:33 PM
#12
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#1 STUNNA (01-01-2020)
01-01-2020, 03:35 PM
#13
Sanest Florida Man
Cool feature. Rivian said you'd only be able to do it off road, curious how they'll limit it to off road only or if that's just a recommendation
01-02-2020, 08:29 AM
#14
Tesla was planning to run circles around Rivian in terms of price and performance, but instead Rivian ran circles on itself with the tank turn feature.
.
01-28-2020, 11:44 AM
#15
Moderator
https://www.slashgear.com/rivian-sur...-suv-27607737/
Rivian has raised significant cash in multiple rounds of investment to bring its electric truck and SUV to market. The EV maker landed a substantial investment by Ford and will build the skateboard platform for an unannounced Ford/Lincoln SUV. Recently, Rivian announced something surprising. That surprise was that the prices of its vehicles will be lower than previously announced.
Rivian CEO R.J. Scaringe recently told Reuters that the mid-range R1T electric pickup with the glass sky panel would sell for about $69,000. The sky panel is an interesting roof option that features a panel that can change from blue to clear. That SUV will be able to go about 300 miles on a charge.
Scaringe said that the similar range R1S SUV would sell for about $72,000. The automaker has stated that the vehicle with the largest battery will drive about 400 miles per charge. An EV fitted with its smallest battery pack will go about 230 miles per charge. There are some mysteries about the Rivian vehicles, namely how many have plunked down the $1,000 refundable deposit to get in line for a Rivian vehicle. All Scaringe would say was that the reaction to the EVs has been positive.
He said that the challenge would be that a lot of the pre-order customers won’t get their vehicles as fast as they would like because of the long queue. So far, Rivian has raised $3.6 billion with major investments from Ford and Amazon, among others. Amazon has pledged to buy a massive number of electric delivery vehicles from Rivian. The automaker says it is working on rolling out its own charging stations at locations like national parks. The vehicles will charge on exiting electric vehicle charging networks.
Rivian CEO R.J. Scaringe recently told Reuters that the mid-range R1T electric pickup with the glass sky panel would sell for about $69,000. The sky panel is an interesting roof option that features a panel that can change from blue to clear. That SUV will be able to go about 300 miles on a charge.
Scaringe said that the similar range R1S SUV would sell for about $72,000. The automaker has stated that the vehicle with the largest battery will drive about 400 miles per charge. An EV fitted with its smallest battery pack will go about 230 miles per charge. There are some mysteries about the Rivian vehicles, namely how many have plunked down the $1,000 refundable deposit to get in line for a Rivian vehicle. All Scaringe would say was that the reaction to the EVs has been positive.
He said that the challenge would be that a lot of the pre-order customers won’t get their vehicles as fast as they would like because of the long queue. So far, Rivian has raised $3.6 billion with major investments from Ford and Amazon, among others. Amazon has pledged to buy a massive number of electric delivery vehicles from Rivian. The automaker says it is working on rolling out its own charging stations at locations like national parks. The vehicles will charge on exiting electric vehicle charging networks.
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Comfy (01-28-2020)
01-28-2020, 10:41 PM
#16
With Tesla's Elon Musk and Rivian's RJ Scaringe, we have the Henry Ford and Alfred Sl
The development of the car business in the 20th century followed a predictable pattern: daring innovators gave way to savvy managers. The early days were the Wild West — or Wild Midwest, and the burgeoning industry was located mostly in the middle of the US, with Detroit as its capital — but after World War II and the emergence of a vast American consumer culture, automotive startups morphed into multinational corporations.
The two most important men in this story were Henry Ford, who needs no introduction, and Alfred Sloan, who does. It was Ford who laid the groundwork for the modern auto industry and pioneered both the effective moving assembly line and the idea of mass-market motorized transport with the Model T. The company that bears his name and that's still run in part by his great-grandson, board chairman Bill Ford, remains the No. 2 US car company.
Sloan, a more obscure personality, created the modern corporation in General Motors. At its peak in the 1950s, GM controlled half the US car market; it still controls about 20%. (The Germans and Japanese weren't really selling vehicles in the US during the Eisenhower administration.)
The Utopian Ford vs. the pragmatic Sloan
The key distinction between Henry Ford and Alfred Sloan was that Ford was something of a utopian (and, more troublingly, given to anti-Semitic propaganda) who harbored visionary, paternalistic attitudes toward his workforce and his customers. He believed that his workers should be paid enough to buy the cars they produced, and thereby created a virtuous circle, but he disliked credit and figured that there was no reason to sell Model T's that weren't black.
Sloan, by contrast, thought that the buyer was always right — or at least that the consumer should enjoy abundant choice, and that GM as a corporation should provide it. Some of this was expeditious: GM was created by combining brands — Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac — so Sloan was simply managing reality as GM's president. But GM has always concentrated on the pull of consumers, rather than Ford's push to deliver singularly great products.
The symbols of the two American giants capture this distinction. Henry Ford's great achievement was the mighty River Rouge factory, where train cars loaded with iron ore pulled up to one end of the plant and finished cars rolled out the other. Sloan's work of genius was GM's organizational chart, the blueprint for American managerial capitalism.The two biggest names in the electric car realm are Tesla CEO Elon Musk (obviously) and a guy you probably haven't heard of, RJ Scaringe, who leads Rivian, a startup electric SUV and pickup-truck maker. In my cycles-of-history framework, Musk is Ford and Scaringe is Sloan. (There's some irony here, by the way, as Ford has invested $500 million in Rivian, while Tesla hasn't seen a major automaker take a stake since Daimler and Toyota bought equity prior to Tesla's 2010 IPO.)
The big difference between Musk and Scaringe is that Musk, the visionary, wants nothing to do with the legacy auto industry anymore, while Scaringe is running Rivian sort of like a junior OEM. When I saw the photo below, of Scaringe and Bill Ford after the Ford investment was announced, I speculated that I was looking at Ford's next CEO.
Scaringe with Ford Chairman Bill Ford. FordLike Henry Ford, Musk is preoccupied with the manufacturing process — Tesla's Gigafactories, in Musk's view, are more important than Tesla's cars. They're the "machine that builds the machine," and Musk would like them to become radically automated.
Cox owns Kelley Blue Book and Autotrader, among other properties. These entities are designed to facilitate the car buying and leasing process and are heavily organized around the consumer. By investing in Rivian, they're getting a piece of the future, the chance to integrate sales not just of EVs, but of SUVs and pickups, the most popular vehicles in the lucrative US market. Rivian is getting a huge pipeline to buyers from the deal.
In the history of the car business, Ford is seen as stubborn and idealistic while Sloan is considered adaptable and pragmatic. Of course, both Ford and GM are still around, so it's not clear that Ford's vision lost out to Sloan's technocracy. Musk likes to note that Ford and Tesla are the only two American car makers that haven't gone bankrupt.
But Ford did have to recruit a cadre of number-crunching efficiency experts after World War II — the so-called "Whiz Kids" who had brought statistical analysis to the war effort — to modernize its business. Nonetheless, Ford has often been home to outside-the-box thinkers, from the brash Lee Iacocca to the former Boeing exec Alan Mulally, who rescued Ford from insolvency before the financial crisis. GM continues to embrace the skilled manager, although in current CEO Mary Barra the company has been making tough call after tough call on issues that the pre-bankruptcy GM had endlessly postponed, such as selling the perennially money-losing European division, Opel.
Interestingly, with Musk and Scaringe we also have a contest of engineers. Or more accurately, technologists, as Musk's background is in physics while Scaringe has a PhD in mechanical engineering. Don't interpret that as meaning Scaringe is a superior engineer; Musk likely knows more about electric-vehicle design than most people in the business. But while the auto industry is full of engineers in leadership roles, Musk likes to express engineering in a way that's wonky and unique (as well as sort of irritatingly didactic at times). Scaringe is more low-key. But in Scaringe, Musk has a potential rival who can actually out-engineer him, something he hasn't really had to deal with up to this point.
What we don't have with Musk and Scaringe is a contest of celebrities. Musk is world-famous, the basis for the "Iron Man" Tony Stark character — a real-life billionaire and occasional playboy (Musk gets around, but he also has five kids). Scaringe is unknown outside the car business, and not even that well-known in it. I've been covering cars for over a decade and I'd never heard of him prior to about a year ago.
But obviously, even if you know nothing about cars, you're probably familiar with Henry Ford, while Alfred Sloan might ring a bell only if you live in the New York area and are aware of the Sloan Kettering medical centers or the Sloan Foundation's philanthropy.
The historical comparisons aren't perfect. Musk is a creature of Silicon Valley and its embrace of risk-taking, rapid-iteration, launch-now-and-debug-later ethos. He's been compared with Steve Jobs. The business dynamics of the tech industry in the early 21st century are not the same as the car business in the early 20th. Scaringe, meanwhile, has just begun to hit his stride, after almost a decade of developing and pivoting Rivian. He seems fresher because Rivian missed out on the EV-startup surge of the 2010s — a fortunate thing, as most of those startups, save for Tesla, have vanished. Scaringe is a creature of the next wave, which entails a lot more cooperation with Detroit and recognizes that building vehicles at scale is extremely difficult.
Prior to Scaringe, Musk's main rival was often seen as Henrik Fisker, a car designer who founded Fisker Automotive, which went out of business in 2013 (Fisker himself had resigned by then, and the automaker's decline was due to bottlenecks with its battery supplier and the unfortunate destruction of a load of cars in Hurricane Sandy). If anything, Fisker was a more flamboyant and compelling personality that Musk; I've talked to him on several occassions, and his talents as a raconteur are formidable. He's currently engaged in a wide range of projects, from building a supercar to resuscitating electric mobility with a new company, Fisker, Inc.
To borrow a famous analysis from the philosopher Isaiah Berlin, Fisker is a fox to Scaringe's hedgehog (according to Berlin, referencing from an early distinction in ancient Greek literature, the fox knows many things, while the hedgehog concentrates on one). Musk, too, is a fox, engaged with space exploration, tunneling, and artificial intelligence.
At first glance, Henry Ford might seem hedgehog-like, but in my view, he was probably a fox, or perhaps a fox-hedgehog hybrid (as was the novelist Leo Tolstoy, by Berlin's reading). Foxes function well as entrepreneurs, even though they might be single-mindedly devoted to their companies and their missions; Ford started two failed enterprises before the Ford Motor Company — and maybe even three, depending on how you assess his fortunes.
Sloan, meanwhile, found his glory in melding GM with the American consumer, and in a larger sense, postwar life. The definite GM quote didn't come from Sloan, but he enabled the automaker's World War II-era president, Charles Erwin Wilson, to tell Congress during his confirmation hearings to become Eisenhower's Secretary of Defense, that he could make a decision that would place GM and the US in conflict because "I thought what was good for our country was good for General Motors, and vice versa."
We're now watching this business narrative of the 20th century repeated in the 21st. Ultimately, this is important because the gestational electric-vehicle industry needs big personalities to sustain and grow it. The first decade has been a mixed bag, with Tesla stumbling through a decade of infrequent profits and serial controversies while the major automakers approach a market that's still quite weak, with halting steps.
Ford and GM are both producing electric cars, but we really need the new Ford and new GM. In Tesla and Rivian we could have not just that, but the leaders who can do for EVs what Henry Ford and Alfred Sloan did for internal combustion.
https://www.businessinsider.com/elon...ehicles-2019-9
The two most important men in this story were Henry Ford, who needs no introduction, and Alfred Sloan, who does. It was Ford who laid the groundwork for the modern auto industry and pioneered both the effective moving assembly line and the idea of mass-market motorized transport with the Model T. The company that bears his name and that's still run in part by his great-grandson, board chairman Bill Ford, remains the No. 2 US car company.
Sloan, a more obscure personality, created the modern corporation in General Motors. At its peak in the 1950s, GM controlled half the US car market; it still controls about 20%. (The Germans and Japanese weren't really selling vehicles in the US during the Eisenhower administration.)
The Utopian Ford vs. the pragmatic Sloan
The key distinction between Henry Ford and Alfred Sloan was that Ford was something of a utopian (and, more troublingly, given to anti-Semitic propaganda) who harbored visionary, paternalistic attitudes toward his workforce and his customers. He believed that his workers should be paid enough to buy the cars they produced, and thereby created a virtuous circle, but he disliked credit and figured that there was no reason to sell Model T's that weren't black.
Sloan, by contrast, thought that the buyer was always right — or at least that the consumer should enjoy abundant choice, and that GM as a corporation should provide it. Some of this was expeditious: GM was created by combining brands — Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac — so Sloan was simply managing reality as GM's president. But GM has always concentrated on the pull of consumers, rather than Ford's push to deliver singularly great products.
The symbols of the two American giants capture this distinction. Henry Ford's great achievement was the mighty River Rouge factory, where train cars loaded with iron ore pulled up to one end of the plant and finished cars rolled out the other. Sloan's work of genius was GM's organizational chart, the blueprint for American managerial capitalism.The two biggest names in the electric car realm are Tesla CEO Elon Musk (obviously) and a guy you probably haven't heard of, RJ Scaringe, who leads Rivian, a startup electric SUV and pickup-truck maker. In my cycles-of-history framework, Musk is Ford and Scaringe is Sloan. (There's some irony here, by the way, as Ford has invested $500 million in Rivian, while Tesla hasn't seen a major automaker take a stake since Daimler and Toyota bought equity prior to Tesla's 2010 IPO.)
The big difference between Musk and Scaringe is that Musk, the visionary, wants nothing to do with the legacy auto industry anymore, while Scaringe is running Rivian sort of like a junior OEM. When I saw the photo below, of Scaringe and Bill Ford after the Ford investment was announced, I speculated that I was looking at Ford's next CEO.
Why Rivian is more like a traditional automaker than Tesla
Scaringe — like Sloan, an MIT engineering grad — is creating an electric automaker that's designed to reach the consumer; he's not trying to reinvent manufacturing. To achieve that, he wants everything to do with the legacy auto industry. Where Sloan had his org chart, Scaringe has partnerships and deals, all intended to make Rivian vehicles easier to manufacture, sell, and service. His most recent investment, of $350 million from Cox Automotive, is representative. (Ford and Amazon have also kicked in, giving Rivian a $2 billion total.)Cox owns Kelley Blue Book and Autotrader, among other properties. These entities are designed to facilitate the car buying and leasing process and are heavily organized around the consumer. By investing in Rivian, they're getting a piece of the future, the chance to integrate sales not just of EVs, but of SUVs and pickups, the most popular vehicles in the lucrative US market. Rivian is getting a huge pipeline to buyers from the deal.
In the history of the car business, Ford is seen as stubborn and idealistic while Sloan is considered adaptable and pragmatic. Of course, both Ford and GM are still around, so it's not clear that Ford's vision lost out to Sloan's technocracy. Musk likes to note that Ford and Tesla are the only two American car makers that haven't gone bankrupt.
But Ford did have to recruit a cadre of number-crunching efficiency experts after World War II — the so-called "Whiz Kids" who had brought statistical analysis to the war effort — to modernize its business. Nonetheless, Ford has often been home to outside-the-box thinkers, from the brash Lee Iacocca to the former Boeing exec Alan Mulally, who rescued Ford from insolvency before the financial crisis. GM continues to embrace the skilled manager, although in current CEO Mary Barra the company has been making tough call after tough call on issues that the pre-bankruptcy GM had endlessly postponed, such as selling the perennially money-losing European division, Opel.
Interestingly, with Musk and Scaringe we also have a contest of engineers. Or more accurately, technologists, as Musk's background is in physics while Scaringe has a PhD in mechanical engineering. Don't interpret that as meaning Scaringe is a superior engineer; Musk likely knows more about electric-vehicle design than most people in the business. But while the auto industry is full of engineers in leadership roles, Musk likes to express engineering in a way that's wonky and unique (as well as sort of irritatingly didactic at times). Scaringe is more low-key. But in Scaringe, Musk has a potential rival who can actually out-engineer him, something he hasn't really had to deal with up to this point.
What we don't have with Musk and Scaringe is a contest of celebrities. Musk is world-famous, the basis for the "Iron Man" Tony Stark character — a real-life billionaire and occasional playboy (Musk gets around, but he also has five kids). Scaringe is unknown outside the car business, and not even that well-known in it. I've been covering cars for over a decade and I'd never heard of him prior to about a year ago.
But obviously, even if you know nothing about cars, you're probably familiar with Henry Ford, while Alfred Sloan might ring a bell only if you live in the New York area and are aware of the Sloan Kettering medical centers or the Sloan Foundation's philanthropy.
The historical comparisons aren't perfect. Musk is a creature of Silicon Valley and its embrace of risk-taking, rapid-iteration, launch-now-and-debug-later ethos. He's been compared with Steve Jobs. The business dynamics of the tech industry in the early 21st century are not the same as the car business in the early 20th. Scaringe, meanwhile, has just begun to hit his stride, after almost a decade of developing and pivoting Rivian. He seems fresher because Rivian missed out on the EV-startup surge of the 2010s — a fortunate thing, as most of those startups, save for Tesla, have vanished. Scaringe is a creature of the next wave, which entails a lot more cooperation with Detroit and recognizes that building vehicles at scale is extremely difficult.
Prior to Scaringe, Musk's main rival was often seen as Henrik Fisker, a car designer who founded Fisker Automotive, which went out of business in 2013 (Fisker himself had resigned by then, and the automaker's decline was due to bottlenecks with its battery supplier and the unfortunate destruction of a load of cars in Hurricane Sandy). If anything, Fisker was a more flamboyant and compelling personality that Musk; I've talked to him on several occassions, and his talents as a raconteur are formidable. He's currently engaged in a wide range of projects, from building a supercar to resuscitating electric mobility with a new company, Fisker, Inc.
To borrow a famous analysis from the philosopher Isaiah Berlin, Fisker is a fox to Scaringe's hedgehog (according to Berlin, referencing from an early distinction in ancient Greek literature, the fox knows many things, while the hedgehog concentrates on one). Musk, too, is a fox, engaged with space exploration, tunneling, and artificial intelligence.
At first glance, Henry Ford might seem hedgehog-like, but in my view, he was probably a fox, or perhaps a fox-hedgehog hybrid (as was the novelist Leo Tolstoy, by Berlin's reading). Foxes function well as entrepreneurs, even though they might be single-mindedly devoted to their companies and their missions; Ford started two failed enterprises before the Ford Motor Company — and maybe even three, depending on how you assess his fortunes.
Sloan, meanwhile, found his glory in melding GM with the American consumer, and in a larger sense, postwar life. The definite GM quote didn't come from Sloan, but he enabled the automaker's World War II-era president, Charles Erwin Wilson, to tell Congress during his confirmation hearings to become Eisenhower's Secretary of Defense, that he could make a decision that would place GM and the US in conflict because "I thought what was good for our country was good for General Motors, and vice versa."
We're now watching this business narrative of the 20th century repeated in the 21st. Ultimately, this is important because the gestational electric-vehicle industry needs big personalities to sustain and grow it. The first decade has been a mixed bag, with Tesla stumbling through a decade of infrequent profits and serial controversies while the major automakers approach a market that's still quite weak, with halting steps.
Ford and GM are both producing electric cars, but we really need the new Ford and new GM. In Tesla and Rivian we could have not just that, but the leaders who can do for EVs what Henry Ford and Alfred Sloan did for internal combustion.
https://www.businessinsider.com/elon...ehicles-2019-9
03-27-2020, 09:40 AM
#17
Rivian wins big as Colorado passes Electric vehicle direct sales law.
Coloradans can look forward to a Rivian store of their own in the not-too-distant future, thanks to a new law allowing electric vehicle makers to sell direct.Last month, we reported that Rivian was helping to push legislation that would let it sell direct in Colorado. Tesla could sell direct in Colorado but others couldn’t, due to a ban on direct sales that passed the state legislature in 2010. Tesla already had a store, so it was grandfathered in. Rivian was supporting legislation to let it and other EV makers also sell direct.
Back then, the bill was opposed by the Colorado Automobile Dealers Association because it would have allowed any EV to be sold direct. So Ford could have opened its own store(s) to sell the Mustang Mach-E direct to consumers, outside of Ford dealerships in the state. That version of the bill failed, and the new version allows only direct sales of EVs where the manufacturer exclusively makes EVs. Here’s the bill summary:
This law has now been signed by Colorado governor Jared Polis.
James Chen, Rivian’s VP of Public Policy, tells Electrek that: “The Colorado effort has been all about how Rivian can best serve its customers and making sure we’re there to support them. We believe manufacturers should be free to determine how best to serve their customers. In states where we’re not allowed to sell directly, we’ll find a way to support those customers, whether through changing legislation, or providing support from a neighboring state, or whatever it takes.”
Sean Mitchell, host of the popular Youtube channel All Things EV and a Denver resident, helped advocate for the law. He credits the work of the Denver Tesla Club in particular for their grassroots work contacting state legislators. Sean tells Electrek:
The dealers and dealer association pushed back at every point in the legislative process. They said that it wasn’t necessary. That Rivian could just apply for a dealer license. The challenge is that Rivian would be required to make a significant capital investment without the guarantee they would get the license. The dealer association knows the game and tactics – this is their home field advantage. They do everything possible to muddy the water for any business model outside dealerships. This is directly spearheaded by the Association CEO, Tim Jackson. He’s crafty in the way he words his rebuttals to companies like Tesla and Rivian to make it sound like dealerships are the only ones who can serve consumers. This is just not true. The purpose of this bill was to give consumers the choice between the two business models. Thankfully, consumers won with 167.
Colorado Automobile Dealers Association president Tim Jackson gave an interview (with transcript) to CBT Automotive discussing the fight. It’s a worthwhile interview for anyone interested in automotive-dealer politics. Jackson stresses that his main concern is not the EV startups, but existing OEMs having to honor their franchise agreements with their dealers. Here are a few highlights:
And I’d certainly like to believe that when someone walks into a Ford dealership, they’ll be drawn to the Mach-E and choose it over an Escape or Explorer. If true, having them in dealer lots would help speed up EV adoption. But legacy OEMs’ franchise dealers have proven to be poor partners to EV sales, so it would have been interesting to see a legacy OEM give it a go without a dealer screwing things up.
https://electrek.co/2020/03/25/rivia...ect-sales-law/
Back then, the bill was opposed by the Colorado Automobile Dealers Association because it would have allowed any EV to be sold direct. So Ford could have opened its own store(s) to sell the Mustang Mach-E direct to consumers, outside of Ford dealerships in the state. That version of the bill failed, and the new version allows only direct sales of EVs where the manufacturer exclusively makes EVs. Here’s the bill summary:
This law has now been signed by Colorado governor Jared Polis.
James Chen, Rivian’s VP of Public Policy, tells Electrek that: “The Colorado effort has been all about how Rivian can best serve its customers and making sure we’re there to support them. We believe manufacturers should be free to determine how best to serve their customers. In states where we’re not allowed to sell directly, we’ll find a way to support those customers, whether through changing legislation, or providing support from a neighboring state, or whatever it takes.”
Sean Mitchell, host of the popular Youtube channel All Things EV and a Denver resident, helped advocate for the law. He credits the work of the Denver Tesla Club in particular for their grassroots work contacting state legislators. Sean tells Electrek:
The dealers and dealer association pushed back at every point in the legislative process. They said that it wasn’t necessary. That Rivian could just apply for a dealer license. The challenge is that Rivian would be required to make a significant capital investment without the guarantee they would get the license. The dealer association knows the game and tactics – this is their home field advantage. They do everything possible to muddy the water for any business model outside dealerships. This is directly spearheaded by the Association CEO, Tim Jackson. He’s crafty in the way he words his rebuttals to companies like Tesla and Rivian to make it sound like dealerships are the only ones who can serve consumers. This is just not true. The purpose of this bill was to give consumers the choice between the two business models. Thankfully, consumers won with 167.
Colorado Automobile Dealers Association president Tim Jackson gave an interview (with transcript) to CBT Automotive discussing the fight. It’s a worthwhile interview for anyone interested in automotive-dealer politics. Jackson stresses that his main concern is not the EV startups, but existing OEMs having to honor their franchise agreements with their dealers. Here are a few highlights:
- If the original bill had passed, Colorado would have been the first state to let an OEM with franchised dealers side-step those dealers in the state.
- The bill was introduced while his group was out of town for the first day of the National Automobile Dealers Association convention. Jackson said: “[This issue] keeps me up at night. But more importantly, I really saw my life flash in front of me on this issue because it wasn’t well thought out, but it was well executed by doing the sneak attack.”
- There have been direct sales models in the past, where an OEM was allowed to buy out its dealers and sell direct. This was apparently tried by some premium brands but failed, according to Jackson.
- The interviewer suggests that the legacy OEMs were interested to see the original bill pass: “And if anything, [the legacy OEMs] should be at the table there in the state capital’s supporting [dealers] rather than kind of taking a wait-and-see and saying, ‘Well let’s see if they can get this passed.'”
Electrek’s Take
Rivian wanted the ability to sell direct, and we’re glad they got it. That’s straightforward. Less straightforward is imagining how the original bill would have played out. Would Ford have sold its gorgeous Mach-E Mustang in its own stores? Do you think that would have been better, or worse, for total unit sales in the state? Keep in mind, the overwhelming percentage of new-car sales happen via franchise dealers.And I’d certainly like to believe that when someone walks into a Ford dealership, they’ll be drawn to the Mach-E and choose it over an Escape or Explorer. If true, having them in dealer lots would help speed up EV adoption. But legacy OEMs’ franchise dealers have proven to be poor partners to EV sales, so it would have been interesting to see a legacy OEM give it a go without a dealer screwing things up.
https://electrek.co/2020/03/25/rivia...ect-sales-law/
03-30-2020, 10:38 AM
#18
Ex-OEM King
I don't know why they made it specific to EV makers...they should just go away with mandating dealerships all together. If an automaker wants to use a dealer network, leave that up to them. For everyone else, cut out the middle man and lower prices.
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nist7 (07-11-2020)
03-30-2020, 05:06 PM
#19
They just removed the moat around the legacy automakers by making the field even. They can join the fray by launching an entirely new brand and compete with everyone else for market share.
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charliemike (03-31-2020)
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Comfy (03-31-2020)
04-01-2020, 11:06 AM
#21
Ex-OEM King
Disagree. Most automakers aren't set up to do direct sales. By that I mean the way automakers work today is that nearly every car they make is sold to a dealer almost immediately (barring pandemics or other issues) so they keep very little inventory on hand and therefore very little overhead. That burden is transferred to the dealership to take on in a far more distributed fashion. If everyone goes direct sales, it upends the entire business model. I do, however, think the option should be given to those automakers who want to go that route.
04-01-2020, 11:07 PM
#22
Disagree. Most automakers aren't set up to do direct sales. By that I mean the way automakers work today is that nearly every car they make is sold to a dealer almost immediately (barring pandemics or other issues) so they keep very little inventory on hand and therefore very little overhead. That burden is transferred to the dealership to take on in a far more distributed fashion. If everyone goes direct sales, it upends the entire business model. I do, however, think the option should be given to those automakers who want to go that route.
04-02-2020, 02:12 PM
#23
Ex-OEM King
The problem is, if manufacturers are given permit to open stores, they'll compete straight with dealerships for business which will be an uneven fight. People will generally tend to go straight to the factory store than a third party profit making dealership regardless of whatever else service they provide (lounge, coffee, donuts, etc... which are not that expensive to procure anyway by any business). As said previously, manufacturers should be able to sell online. Leave some stores open as viewing galleries, and rest as service stores. The dealership franchise laws need amendment.
04-09-2020, 08:31 AM
#24
Race Director
Thread Starter
Electric vehicle startup Rivian last week gave us a sneak peak of the progress being made on its idled factory floor in Normal, Ill., via an internal video for employees that it decided to make public. Now, the company says that the coronavirus outbreak has disrupted the retooling project enough to force it to push plans to launch production back to 2021, from later this year.
Rivian confirmed the details to the Chicago Tribune. The company said it had anticipated hiring thousands of employees to staff the former Mitsubishi plant, located about 130 miles southwest of Chicago, but that only a skeleton crew of maintenance workers, plus about 60 contractors doing mostly electrical work at a safe distance from one another, remain on site.
“There are 11 Rivian employees there in 2.6 million square feet,” spokeswoman Amy Mast told the paper.
Rivian announced on March 20 it was shutting down its U.S. facilities. The company says it continues to pay all hourly and salaried employees in full during the hiatus.
Rivian purchased the plant, which once also served as a Mitsubishi-Chrysler joint venture, for $16 million in 2017. It had aimed to begin building the R1T electric pickup truck by December 2020. The factory will also build the R1S, an SUV, and 100,000 electric delivery vans built atop its skateboard EV platform for Amazon, which led a $700 million round of investment last year into the startup automaker.
The plant will also build an electric vehicle for Lincoln, also based on Rivian’s platform, expected in 2022. Ford last year invested $500 million in Rivian to help develop electric vehicles.
Rivian confirmed the details to the Chicago Tribune. The company said it had anticipated hiring thousands of employees to staff the former Mitsubishi plant, located about 130 miles southwest of Chicago, but that only a skeleton crew of maintenance workers, plus about 60 contractors doing mostly electrical work at a safe distance from one another, remain on site.
“There are 11 Rivian employees there in 2.6 million square feet,” spokeswoman Amy Mast told the paper.
Rivian announced on March 20 it was shutting down its U.S. facilities. The company says it continues to pay all hourly and salaried employees in full during the hiatus.
Rivian purchased the plant, which once also served as a Mitsubishi-Chrysler joint venture, for $16 million in 2017. It had aimed to begin building the R1T electric pickup truck by December 2020. The factory will also build the R1S, an SUV, and 100,000 electric delivery vans built atop its skateboard EV platform for Amazon, which led a $700 million round of investment last year into the startup automaker.
The plant will also build an electric vehicle for Lincoln, also based on Rivian’s platform, expected in 2022. Ford last year invested $500 million in Rivian to help develop electric vehicles.
07-02-2020, 02:50 AM
#25
Race Director
Thread Starter
As far as electrified pickup trucks go, a bunch are expected to hit the market soon, including the 2021 Ford F-150 and the Nikola Badger. We're not betting against either of those, but we will put money on the used-to-be-Michigan-based Rivian and its R1T battery-powered truck. The company uploaded four videos over the weekend of its new truck pounding sand, dirt and rocks while testing in the desert.
The first video, is the Rivian doing a multitude of tests in Arizona. It drifts around the dirt, launches from sand and crawls over some rocks. You know, normal truck stuff. It looks punishing, but this is just a daily occurrence when trying to bring a new pickup truck to market. As we know, the truck market is not only huge, but profitable, and important to many automakers. It's also not easy to gain a foothold, but Rivian's going to try.
The next clip (they're really just shorter cuts of the first) is the Rivian R1T launching out of the dirt, and with four-wheel drive, 750 hp and 829 lb-ft of torque, it looks faster than most cars on dry pavement. Rivian claims a 0-60 mph time of three seconds flat.
We move on to drifting next, and as you can guess with that kind of power, Mitsubishi Evo-like four-wheel slides are an easy task for the Rivian R1T. It looks right at home, even with the camouflage that's like little pictures of all the things you could do if you bought one.
Finally, we get to see high-speed trail riding with the R1T, which looks to be cruising at a fast pace. We're used to Raptors and maybe the new Ram Rebel TRX doing this sort of thing. But a battery-loaded Rivian is a new one. Speaking of weight, we're wondering how much bounce this thing can take.
We talked to a Rivian rep today who said that the R1T will go on sale next year. It was scheduled for late this year, but those plans were pushed due to the pandemic.
The first video, is the Rivian doing a multitude of tests in Arizona. It drifts around the dirt, launches from sand and crawls over some rocks. You know, normal truck stuff. It looks punishing, but this is just a daily occurrence when trying to bring a new pickup truck to market. As we know, the truck market is not only huge, but profitable, and important to many automakers. It's also not easy to gain a foothold, but Rivian's going to try.
The next clip (they're really just shorter cuts of the first) is the Rivian R1T launching out of the dirt, and with four-wheel drive, 750 hp and 829 lb-ft of torque, it looks faster than most cars on dry pavement. Rivian claims a 0-60 mph time of three seconds flat.
We move on to drifting next, and as you can guess with that kind of power, Mitsubishi Evo-like four-wheel slides are an easy task for the Rivian R1T. It looks right at home, even with the camouflage that's like little pictures of all the things you could do if you bought one.
Finally, we get to see high-speed trail riding with the R1T, which looks to be cruising at a fast pace. We're used to Raptors and maybe the new Ram Rebel TRX doing this sort of thing. But a battery-loaded Rivian is a new one. Speaking of weight, we're wondering how much bounce this thing can take.
We talked to a Rivian rep today who said that the R1T will go on sale next year. It was scheduled for late this year, but those plans were pushed due to the pandemic.
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Comfy (07-02-2020)
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07-02-2020, 02:06 PM
#27
Ex-OEM King
Shiiiit, how much are these supposed to go for? Might seriously consider getting one, best of both worlds for sports car and pickup in one. And it doesn't look like ass!
07-02-2020, 02:15 PM
#28
Moderator
Easily the best looking of the full electric trucks.
07-02-2020, 10:33 PM
#29
07-03-2020, 12:24 PM
#30
Ex-OEM King
In case you haven’t been paying attention....That’s close to $70k for the base model with the least range (equivalent in price to the highest priced Cybertruck with the best range and performance specs). So it’s only the looks you are going for at that price with none of the toughness or “badassness” of Cybertruck.
Anyway, they said that $70k would be the price for a well equipped model, not the base. Also, Rivian is still eligible for the $7500 credit. It also doesn't look stupid. The biggest advantage Tesla has is the supercharger network. It'll be interesting to see what Rivian does.
07-04-2020, 06:34 AM
#31
The cyber truck does not exist and no one knows its price. Even still, I wouldn't buy it for half that price as it looks stupid. There is no toughness or badassness about it, it just looks like a douchey bro truck.
Anyway, they said that $70k would be the price for a well equipped model, not the base. s.
Anyway, they said that $70k would be the price for a well equipped model, not the base. s.
The prices for Rivian and Cybertruck are suggested by manufacturers themselves. I didn’t make it up.
Looks are subjective. You can keep the Rivian. I’ll take Cybertruck. Cool.
07-04-2020, 10:51 PM
#32
Being bulletproof to a hand gun and impervious to minor scrapes / bumps and resistant to being keyed by some douchbags is pretty badass. Potentially being able to float in water is also badass, but we're not going there since that is only speculation (but participated in by Elon Musk too). You may love a nice coat of paint in your truck (which will last only a few years anyway), but never having to worry about any dents, paint, and rust is tough enough for me.
07-05-2020, 05:42 PM
#33
Ex-OEM King
Cybertruck exists as much as the Rivian, bro. Both haven’t been in market yet so what are you talking about.
The prices for Rivian and Cybertruck are suggested by manufacturers themselves. I didn’t make it up.
Looks are subjective. You can keep the Rivian. I’ll take Cybertruck. Cool.
The prices for Rivian and Cybertruck are suggested by manufacturers themselves. I didn’t make it up.
Looks are subjective. You can keep the Rivian. I’ll take Cybertruck. Cool.
Being bulletproof to a hand gun and impervious to minor scrapes / bumps and resistant to being keyed by some douchbags is pretty badass. Potentially being able to float in water is also badass, but we're not going there since that is only speculation (but participated in by Elon Musk too). You may love a nice coat of paint in your truck (which will last only a few years anyway), but never having to worry about any dents, paint, and rust is tough enough for me.
No scratches or dents? I'd love to see that become a reality. Working with brushed metal finishes is an enormous pain in the ass and metal that won't dent will weigh a metric fuck ton. I'll believe all of this when I see it.Also, coat of paint only lasts a few years? There are cars that have been on the road for decades with the original paint.
Also, no rust isn't a thing either. The body shell might be stainless but the underside is still normal steel and aluminum.Cybertruck is a marketing gimmick for now, it's not real yet.
07-05-2020, 11:44 PM
#34
It may be marketing fluff, I give that to you, but a very good one. The reservations are approaching 850,000, and we can presume it'll cross a million well before the factory is built anyways. Rivian has been working on their truck for longer than Tesla on their pick up, I believe Tesla has only one prototype produced so far. I don't understand your skepticism with the steel exoskeleton though. If that metal is good enough for spacecrafts which will likely last decades, then it should be good enough for vehicles too. Yes it may weight a lot, but do you think the inner skeleton of a regular pick up doesn't weigh as much? Consider that the weight is simply shifted from inner to outer side. Yes, there are cars whose paint last long, but they are always kept in garages and well taken care of. The coat of paint I meant was for those cars that were never garaged, used roughly and mostly outdoors / farms. That steel would be a lot harder to dent and scrape than the tinny skin (with shiny paint) of existing trucks. Talk about "toughness and badassness" here. The only aspect where Rivian is ahead is timing of vehicle release, but it'll be outclassed by Cybertruck in performance and other metrics whenever it arrives, I'm thinking 2022.
Your lack of trust is somewhat justified considering that Tesla hasn't even decided on the site for the factory to build it (even then the priority is #3, after Model Y, then Semi, then CT). But I'm sure by this time next year, when some of those vehicles have already started rolling off the production line, you'd have changed your mind. I agree, I'm taking a blind leap of faith here, but I'm quite sure of my footing where I'll land.
Your lack of trust is somewhat justified considering that Tesla hasn't even decided on the site for the factory to build it (even then the priority is #3, after Model Y, then Semi, then CT). But I'm sure by this time next year, when some of those vehicles have already started rolling off the production line, you'd have changed your mind. I agree, I'm taking a blind leap of faith here, but I'm quite sure of my footing where I'll land.
07-06-2020, 08:53 AM
#35
Ex-OEM King
It may be marketing fluff, I give that to you, but a very good one. The reservations are approaching 850,000, and we can presume it'll cross a million well before the factory is built anyways. Rivian has been working on their truck for longer than Tesla on their pick up, I believe Tesla has only one prototype produced so far. I don't understand your skepticism with the steel exoskeleton though. If that metal is good enough for spacecrafts which will likely last decades, then it should be good enough for vehicles too.
Just because something is good for spacecraft does not at all make it good for something else. There's no air, moisture, etc in space. There are no door dings, no rock chips, grime, damage, etc out in space. Spacecraft are designed to deal with different forces and mechanisms than cars and are therefore designed with different materials in mind. Saying something is "aircraft grade" or "space grade" is marketing bullshit, and you're falling for it. I bet there are "space grade" materials, in that they are also used on spacecraft already, in your RDX.
Yes it may weight a lot, but do you think the inner skeleton of a regular pick up doesn't weigh as much? Consider that the weight is simply shifted from inner to outer side.
That's not a thing. First of all, no one knows what this thing weighs, how it's built, and what it's made out of because it doesn't exist. Second, it stands to reason that it's a unibody construction. If so, then I'd be worried about a lot of things with having a hardened stainless body. It would still be heavy AF because, again, you have to add mass to resist damage. If it's body on frame then it's definitely going to be heavy AF because you cannot then "shift the weight" to the outside. The other option to resist damage is to increase the hardness of the steel but in doing so, you increase the brittleness as well...which is bad for a car. So you wouldn't get dents, but you would get cracks and holes!
Yes, there are cars whose paint last long, but they are always kept in garages and well taken care of. The coat of paint I meant was for those cars that were never garaged, used roughly and mostly outdoors / farms. That steel would be a lot harder to dent and scrape than the tinny skin (with shiny paint) of existing trucks.
Ever seen a modern truck used on a farm? I've seen farm used F150's and other work trucks ridden hard and put away wet for years without much issue with paint damage. Modern paint and rust prevention is a lot better than it used to be. That steel would be SUPER heavy or brittle in order to resist dents. It's basic metallurgy and science, you can't fight that one. And scrapes wouldn't damage the metal, they would damage the brushed surface and be impossible to remove though. I do this stuff for a living, not in automotive, but still the same basics.
Talk about "toughness and badassness" here. The only aspect where Rivian is ahead is timing of vehicle release, but it'll be outclassed by Cybertruck in performance and other metrics whenever it arrives, I'm thinking 2022.
Ok. Again, you're blindly basing it off of nothing. You don't know how "tough and badass" a Rivian is, even though they're selling it as an "adventure truck" and have videos of it doing all the "tough and badass" things.
Your lack of trust is somewhat justified considering that Tesla hasn't even decided on the site for the factory to build it (even then the priority is #3, after Model Y, then Semi, then CT). But I'm sure by this time next year, when some of those vehicles have already started rolling off the production line, you'd have changed your mind. I agree, I'm taking a blind leap of faith here, but I'm quite sure of my footing where I'll land.
Just because something is good for spacecraft does not at all make it good for something else. There's no air, moisture, etc in space. There are no door dings, no rock chips, grime, damage, etc out in space. Spacecraft are designed to deal with different forces and mechanisms than cars and are therefore designed with different materials in mind. Saying something is "aircraft grade" or "space grade" is marketing bullshit, and you're falling for it. I bet there are "space grade" materials, in that they are also used on spacecraft already, in your RDX.
Yes it may weight a lot, but do you think the inner skeleton of a regular pick up doesn't weigh as much? Consider that the weight is simply shifted from inner to outer side.
That's not a thing. First of all, no one knows what this thing weighs, how it's built, and what it's made out of because it doesn't exist. Second, it stands to reason that it's a unibody construction. If so, then I'd be worried about a lot of things with having a hardened stainless body. It would still be heavy AF because, again, you have to add mass to resist damage. If it's body on frame then it's definitely going to be heavy AF because you cannot then "shift the weight" to the outside. The other option to resist damage is to increase the hardness of the steel but in doing so, you increase the brittleness as well...which is bad for a car. So you wouldn't get dents, but you would get cracks and holes!
Yes, there are cars whose paint last long, but they are always kept in garages and well taken care of. The coat of paint I meant was for those cars that were never garaged, used roughly and mostly outdoors / farms. That steel would be a lot harder to dent and scrape than the tinny skin (with shiny paint) of existing trucks.
Ever seen a modern truck used on a farm? I've seen farm used F150's and other work trucks ridden hard and put away wet for years without much issue with paint damage. Modern paint and rust prevention is a lot better than it used to be. That steel would be SUPER heavy or brittle in order to resist dents. It's basic metallurgy and science, you can't fight that one. And scrapes wouldn't damage the metal, they would damage the brushed surface and be impossible to remove though. I do this stuff for a living, not in automotive, but still the same basics.
Talk about "toughness and badassness" here. The only aspect where Rivian is ahead is timing of vehicle release, but it'll be outclassed by Cybertruck in performance and other metrics whenever it arrives, I'm thinking 2022.
Ok. Again, you're blindly basing it off of nothing. You don't know how "tough and badass" a Rivian is, even though they're selling it as an "adventure truck" and have videos of it doing all the "tough and badass" things.
Your lack of trust is somewhat justified considering that Tesla hasn't even decided on the site for the factory to build it (even then the priority is #3, after Model Y, then Semi, then CT). But I'm sure by this time next year, when some of those vehicles have already started rolling off the production line, you'd have changed your mind. I agree, I'm taking a blind leap of faith here, but I'm quite sure of my footing where I'll land.
07-06-2020, 11:24 AM
#36
Appreciate the input from your expertise in metallurgy. All I’m saying is the 3mm steel would be better able to withstand dents and scrapes as compared to the thin skin with paint in other competitors (rock chips from driving at high speed in interstate is common in the front of all vehicles).
Here’s input from another automotive manufacturing expert Sandy Munro. He seems to think Cybertruck is a great idea and will be ridiculously cheap to manufacture due to its unique body structure.
So I’m not completely basing my idea on bias.
Here’s input from another automotive manufacturing expert Sandy Munro. He seems to think Cybertruck is a great idea and will be ridiculously cheap to manufacture due to its unique body structure.
07-06-2020, 06:25 PM
#37
https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesm...says-elon-musk
I don’t have to convince you bro. Investors have spoken with their wallets and that’s all I care about. TSLA broke $1400 and is still climbing. Resistance is futile.
.
07-06-2020, 09:57 PM
#38
Ex-OEM King
Appreciate the input from your expertise in metallurgy. All I’m saying is the 3mm steel would be better able to withstand dents and scrapes as compared to the thin skin with paint in other competitors (rock chips from driving at high speed in interstate is common in the front of all vehicles).
Here’s input from another automotive manufacturing expert Sandy Munro. He seems to think Cybertruck is a great idea and will be ridiculously cheap to manufacture due to its unique body structure.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YQSQYQ44Qco
So I’m not completely basing my idea on bias.
Here’s input from another automotive manufacturing expert Sandy Munro. He seems to think Cybertruck is a great idea and will be ridiculously cheap to manufacture due to its unique body structure.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YQSQYQ44Qco
So I’m not completely basing my idea on bias.
Close your eyes and claim it’s dark out there. Great. A non existent pick up truck is going to do a cross country trip this year.
https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesm...says-elon-musk
I don’t have to convince you bro. Investors have spoken with their wallets and that’s all I care about. TSLA broke $1400 and is still climbing. Resistance is futile..
https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesm...says-elon-musk
I don’t have to convince you bro. Investors have spoken with their wallets and that’s all I care about. TSLA broke $1400 and is still climbing. Resistance is futile.
.
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07-10-2020, 02:13 PM
#39
Ex-OEM King
MOAR MONEEEEY!!!
https://www.theverge.com/2020/7/10/2...truck-suv-ford
EV startup Rivian has raised $2.5 billion, bringing its total funding to date to around $6 billion ahead of the launch of its all-electric pickup truck and SUV in early 2021. $5.35 billion of that has come in the last year and a half alone, with Rivian scooping up big investments from Ford, Amazon, and Cox Automotive in 2019.
The new funding comes from Soros Fund Management LLC, Coatue (a hedge fund), Fidelity Management and Research Company, and investment firm Baron Capital Group. Amazon and another previous investor, BlackRock, also participated in the funding round, which was advised by T. Rowe Price.
The huge influx of money helps further establish Rivian’s position as what is likely the most well-capitalized EV startup in the world. It will also bolster the company’s massive growth, as it has already opened up a half-dozen offices in and outside of the US and hired around 2,400 people.
Rivian was founded in 2009 and originally set out to build a Tesla Roadster-style sports car, but ultimately pivoted to designing an electric pickup truck and SUV. It stayed extremely quiet for nearly a decade, only emerging from stealth mode in mid-2018 ahead of the launch of its first two vehicles, the R1T (the pickup) and the R1S (the SUV), at that year’s LA Auto Show.
The startup has grown rapidly since then. And not only has it taken in an incredible amount of money, but some of those deals are strategic, too. Rivian is working with Ford on developing an electric vehicle for its Lincoln brand (though one project was already scrapped due to the coronavirus pandemic), and it is building a massive fleet of electric delivery vans for Amazon.
The new funding comes from Soros Fund Management LLC, Coatue (a hedge fund), Fidelity Management and Research Company, and investment firm Baron Capital Group. Amazon and another previous investor, BlackRock, also participated in the funding round, which was advised by T. Rowe Price.
The huge influx of money helps further establish Rivian’s position as what is likely the most well-capitalized EV startup in the world. It will also bolster the company’s massive growth, as it has already opened up a half-dozen offices in and outside of the US and hired around 2,400 people.
Rivian was founded in 2009 and originally set out to build a Tesla Roadster-style sports car, but ultimately pivoted to designing an electric pickup truck and SUV. It stayed extremely quiet for nearly a decade, only emerging from stealth mode in mid-2018 ahead of the launch of its first two vehicles, the R1T (the pickup) and the R1S (the SUV), at that year’s LA Auto Show.
The startup has grown rapidly since then. And not only has it taken in an incredible amount of money, but some of those deals are strategic, too. Rivian is working with Ford on developing an electric vehicle for its Lincoln brand (though one project was already scrapped due to the coronavirus pandemic), and it is building a massive fleet of electric delivery vans for Amazon.
07-10-2020, 10:05 PM
#40
Good for the auto industry and good for the world. Keep it coming. Why don't they release public shares so we could be part of it as well?