They just ragged on the new TL so bad on this weekend's Car And Driver TV program. All cause it's not RWD, & how FWD cannot match the other cars now days, & how Honda/Acura will always be behind them becasue of it's FWD platforms. TQ steer was a big problem, handling was a problem. They didn't even like the power. Who says they are not biased

 

wake up and see the truth...RWD > FWD

 

i hope the weather is nice.......

 

My G35 with Blizzaks way > in snow than my CL with the stock tires.

 

Well, RWD cars handle so much better in the rain and snow. I've never seen an SUV hydroplane off the road. I've never seen a mustang do a 360 in the rain, and I sure as hell haven't seen a beamer stuck in 4 inches of snow. BUT then again, I was drivin 75 miles an hour so I didnt get a chance to get a good glimpse.

 

that's not saying much, a G with winters probably handles better in the snow than an AWD car with summer tires too.

 

True...but the point of my post is that there is no need to shy away from a RWD car because of snow, provided you're planning to run snow tires on it in the winter.

 

THis is not new news. Magazine editors have been stating this for years now. I say accept the TL for a great luxo/sporty car and not a sports sedan.

Coincidently, they LOVE the Honda S2000 and NSX, both RWD.

 

moral of the story


blizzaks>stock tires

:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P


oh heh yea, why'd you get blizzaks on the g35?

 

i saw that too this weekend, and was suprised.

 

but evaluate the TL is a lux sport sedan not as the RWD sports coupe racing in a SCCA cup event. They seem to do switch into that mode of thinking whenver they evalute any FWD car.....usually any FWD Acura.


TL/CLS 6MT handle very well for what they are and for day to day road driving they are perfect. I'm sick of this shit with the FWD<RWD crap when people are driving too and from work. If you are pushing your car enough to really feel the diff.....you are pushing you car more than you should be on public roads.

Unless people are tracking this car on a day in and day out basis STFU!!!!!!!!

 

Car and Driver are performance enthusiasts. Most performance enthusiasts prefer RWD. Doesn't take much to see why they feel the way they do about the TL. At least it has a 6spd now, so they can't rag on it for that anymore.

FWD makes for a great winter car, but FWD isn't the greatest platform for a performance vehicle.

My CLS is my first real experience with FWD. While I think it is a little better in the snow then a RWD car, I really miss the driving experience that RWD offers (and I could do without the wheel hop and torque steer). I've been driving for over 20 years in New England snow, and never had a problem getting anywhere I wanted to go with rwd. You just gotta know how to drive

My CLS will always be driven in the winter. I can't see not driving a FWD car in the winter. If I buy a performance oriented RWD summer car then I'll have the best of both worlds

The CLS and TL offer the best overall compromise for a all season daily driver, but if your looking for more of a performance oriented vehicle, RWD is definitely the way to go.

 

When evaluating the TL against other lux sport sedans in it's class (BMW 3 series, G35, etc), it's hard not to bring up the RWD topic when the competition is RWD.

Infiniti and BMW seem to be going after the performance lux sport sedan minded buyers while Honda/Acura is going after the aging baby boomers who are afraid to drive in the snow

 

 

blizzaks > stock tires......

 

yes yes i agree. But 99.9% of BMW drivers do not track their cars. They drive the sames places that TL drivers go.

 

Actually they can and did, due the torque steer they said the automatic was the best transmission due to it delivering power more smoothly. Other problems mentioned which seem more like daily driving events than road racing.

"The combination of big power, front-wheel drive, and a limited-slip differential produces quite a bit of tugging at the steering wheel as the front wheels encounter varying surfaces. This is exacerbated by the TL's peculiar suspension tuning. The car is simultaneously firm yet springy, and the front suspension felt as if it were topping out over certain road crests, whereupon it would produce a big weave as it touched back down."

"We also experienced some twitchy head-tossing motions on bumpy surfaces from the TL's spring and anti-roll-bar interactions. Acura engineers obviously sought a compromise between ride comfort and body-motion control, and the side effect is some spooky rough-road responses. But hit the smooth highway, and the picture changes. Here the TL is at home, the chassis feels well damped and controlled, and you can enjoy the precise, nicely weighted steering and excellent throttle response."

Whats weird is they had a 160ft braking distance in the comparo but on the Tv show with just the TL they could only manage a 189ft from 70 with the Brembos.

 

Really? I had Blizzaks on my CL-S and it was a tank in the snow. (As long as you kept a light foot). I never bothered with the G35 for snow tires. I just used my 96 Exploder for those snowy days. (Now that's a true definition of a tank).

 

Oops!

 

I never got snows for the CLS, I used my stocks for the winter and had S03's and 18" SSR GT1's for summer. I'm just saying there's a lot of people who don't get a RWD car in cold climates expressly because they are afraid of driving in the snow. If you have snow tires, there's no reason for that to be a determining factor on which car you buy.

 

Car and Driver only likes BMW.....who's fuckin' who? The only Honda/Acura product they've ever liked was the S2000

 

Well basically I'm a southern Californian stuck in New Joisey. Never had too much experience with RWD in snow. FWD always made me feel better. However, when I first moved here I had a SoCal Lexus (No posi or limited slip) and with snows all around and 2 80 lbs of traction sand in the trunk, I had no problems whatsoever.

 

But most people are not too happy that they have to buy an entire set of tires (in most of the cases now a set of rims as well) just so they can drive the car in the winter. That is an extra cost that people that drive in the snow have to take into consideration when they look at rear wheel cars. I would assume that adds 1-2k or so to the price of a rear wheel drive car

 

Hmmmmm.... S2000 = RWD? Hmmmmm.....

 

Nah.... I just bought another truck!

 

Most people in general, but not most people in here. Mostly everyone has aftermarket rims/tires for their CL. I paid 1200 bucks for my snow tire package from tirerack, I paid a lot more for the summer package when I had my CLS.

 

agreed RWD had Michelin Pilot sport summer tires I couldnt even drive in the streets....changed to Michelin Pilot sprot all seasons...drove about the same as the cl-s . Granted my moms civic is better cause she has 13 inch wheels with 175/70 13 all season and the car has like 85 lbs of torque to the wheels

 

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=6

$35,000 Sports Sedans

Third Place
Acura TL

Highs: Awesome engine, roomy interior, great seats.
Lows: Fights back at the wheel, pogoing chassis at high speed.
The Verdict: Should be a rear-drive car.

Acura was clearly planning to take no prisoners with the latest TL, and that was immediately apparent at the drag strip, where the TL ripped off a 0-to-60-mph mark of just 5.8 seconds—a half-second quicker than the potent Infiniti G35 could manage with its 3.5-liter V-6, and more than a second quicker than the best of the rest.

Equipped with Acura's VTEC system, the TL's broad torque spread was equally impressive. Along with the mega-motor came a slick-shifting six-speed transmission and purposeful—almost sinister-looking—exterior styling. Inside, we found a roomy cabin with high-grade materials and legible instrumentation. The message was clear: This car has the goods to kick ass in this category.

But then we went marauding in the mountains north of Los Angeles and discovered some other TL traits. The combination of big power, front-wheel drive, and a limited-slip differential produces quite a bit of tugging at the steering wheel as the front wheels encounter varying surfaces. This is exacerbated by the TL's peculiar suspension tuning. The car is simultaneously firm yet springy, and the front suspension felt as if it were topping out over certain road crests, whereupon it would produce a big weave as it touched back down.

We also experienced some twitchy head-tossing motions on bumpy surfaces from the TL's spring and anti-roll-bar interactions. Acura engineers obviously sought a compromise between ride comfort and body-motion control, and the side effect is some spooky rough-road responses. But hit the smooth highway, and the picture changes. Here the TL is at home, the chassis feels well damped and controlled, and you can enjoy the precise, nicely weighted steering and excellent throttle response. Also, you might want to try the eight-speaker, DVD-compatible ELS audio system. It kicks.

Acura TLs equipped with the manual six-speed also get beautiful Brembo four-piston front-brake calipers, and these contributed to the shortest stopping distance of the pack—160 feet from 70 mph, with a firm pedal feel that garnered a second-highest rating on the chart. Still, one of the logbook entries accused the brakes of feeling weak during high-spirited driving. There's just no satisfying some of our editors.

Here's where that integration of comfort and dynamic ability counts. The TL boasts the largest, best-furnished interior, the strongest engine, one of the slickest shifters, exemplary build quality, and generally superior esthetics. A pity its front-drive layout falls short of perfection.

 

Well, there's not much there to disagree with is there?

 

I really don't care if a car is RWD, FWD, AWD, 4WD, whatever. I buy what I like, & can afford. Although, I have never driven in the snow. Even when I lived in NYC, I didn't have a car the times it did snow. Car and Driver just pisses me off with thier one sided mentailty. Even the tone of the show sounded like the TL wasn't even worthy to be mentioned with BMW, or MB. Their mag also has different test #'s then the TV show. That's shouldn't be.

 

That's one of my complaints about the 6spd. Torque steer is ok at normal driving, but you better have a good grip in the steering wheel if you start to push it over 8/10. There's an off ramp on my way home where I sometimes have to get on it to merge into traffic, and around the 1-2 shift point I hit an expansion joint. With a RWD car I could power right thru it, but with FWD it's white knuckle fever (hold on for your life)

Don't get me wrong, I love my CLS, as it's one of the best FWD car out there, but I don't think I'll ever buy a new FWD car ever again. Buyers remorse but with the shitty resale following the discontinuation and my love for RWD, I wonder if I made the right decision about buying a Acura.

If the CLS didn't have a shitty trade in value right now, I'd might be joining you G35 owners Gotta run the CLS for awhile now and hope I can beat the deprecition curve somewhere down the line. I can't see losing 10K after a year and a half, but if that number comes down to 3-4K per year, I might be good to go.

I had a ford w/ shitty resale value. I bought my Acura with the perception that it would have an excellent resale value, and now I've got an Acura with a shitty resale value.

 

at least they dogged the X-3 in that show. They said it should never have been made.

 

they could have made it awd i would not have liked rwd at all cant drive it in down pouring rain or snow....

 

damn missd the shoe

 

I agree that the CL 6-speed and most likely the TL 6-speed (never driven one so I can't say for sure) handle well for what they are, but I disagree that you can't tell a difference driving on public roads.

I drive my Z to work every day, and it's a very enjoyable experience. Little turns, highway off ramps, and even changing lanes, I notice a big difference. I don't drive like a nut at all either. It is a much more fun and enjoyable to drive due to it's excellent handling and RWD.

It's hard to explain but the feeling of being pushed while accelerating around a turn is an awesome feeling. Don't knock it until you try it.

I agree with your statement that Blizzak > Stock tires. My Z with Blizzak's performed better than my CL did with the stock tires. Depending on the amount of snow, I sometimes used to get stuck or slide badly going up a hill to my apartment, and now I've never gotten stuck with the Z and Blizzak's. It's all about the tires.

 

Agreed! STFU!!!! People buy cars to their preference. I'm all about looks and reliability.

 

U know, those that are ranting on people and the magazines that like RWD sound childish.

Infiniti tried that FWD sporty B.S with the I30/I35 and failed. So they made the G35 RWD which kicks butt.
Lexus tried that FWD sporty B.S. with the ES 300 and failed. So they brought over the IS 300 RWD and made the ES a luxo barge.
Caddy tried that FWD sporty B.S with the STS and the new one is RWD and AWD. Not to mention the CTS is RWD.
Lincoln tried that FWD sporty B.S with the Continental and failed. So they made the RWD LS.
Jaguar realized FWD and luxo/sport sounded stupid (for a Jaguar), so they made their X-type AWD only in the U.S.

They all followed the 3/5 route to sportiness.
And if anyone here cannot tell the difference in just backing out the driveway of FWD vs RWD, you need your head examined.

 

if fwd cars suck so much, then why does the Acuras keep kicking ass in the world challenge touring car circuit?

 

No one is saying FWD sucks. FWD does not suck. Otherwise, the majority of cars sold would not be FWD.

 

ITR =/ 04TL