Build your 2017 NSX
And you're clueless. 
There was nothing prestige about owning a Ferrari during that era unless you bought the only 2 other models worth giving a damn about. The Mondial was a car well on its last legs & the 348/456 were completely overshadowed by the 355/Maranello cars once Ferrari got back to actually building highly desirable cars.

There was nothing prestige about owning a Ferrari during that era unless you bought the only 2 other models worth giving a damn about. The Mondial was a car well on its last legs & the 348/456 were completely overshadowed by the 355/Maranello cars once Ferrari got back to actually building highly desirable cars.
There's a lot of unique stuff in the first NSX; I was floored when I learned Honda / Acura put the gas tank near the middle of the car so the weight balance would remain the same regardless of the fuel level.
And Edmunds' did a suspension walk around and found some weird and clever stuff:
1991 Acura NSX: Suspension Walkaround
No butthurt here... Ferraris are beautiful, and I prefer them to Lamborghinis. But credit where credit is due: the 1G NSX was a fantastic feat of engineering, and made Ferrari reliable and drivable.
And Edmunds' did a suspension walk around and found some weird and clever stuff:
1991 Acura NSX: Suspension Walkaround
No butthurt here... Ferraris are beautiful, and I prefer them to Lamborghinis. But credit where credit is due: the 1G NSX was a fantastic feat of engineering, and made Ferrari reliable and drivable.
, sorry about that I just had had to prove Samdoe1 wrong yet again on some turbo technical stuff. Gotta love using facts to disprove misconceptions 
Beside Senna, Honda also used Bobby Rahal to help develope 1G NSX chassis.
IIRC, Senna sorta was content to focus on spring, swaybar and damper rates.
Whereas Rahal after his initial test driving impressed upon the Honda engineers the front end structure was not rigid enough so those adjustments meant little if the chassis was twisting too much.
Rahal who had lots of racecar development and test experience, took awhile to convince Honda since Senna was considered a god to them and he was not adamant about chassis structure changes.
One of the two (?) NSX test mules had addition aluminum structural material and welded/gusseted in.
Both cars were compared and everyone agreed the more rigid chassis was superior and the front end clip was redesigned for production.
Back to the 2GNSX , I've not read anything that said any race drivers were used for testing or development. Figure if there were they would use that in marketing.
Last edited by Legend2TL; Feb 26, 2016 at 09:07 AM.
And you're clueless. 
There was nothing prestige about owning a Ferrari during that era unless you bought the only 2 other models worth giving a damn about. The Mondial was a car well on its last legs & the 348/456 were completely overshadowed by the 355/Maranello cars once Ferrari got back to actually building highly desirable cars.

There was nothing prestige about owning a Ferrari during that era unless you bought the only 2 other models worth giving a damn about. The Mondial was a car well on its last legs & the 348/456 were completely overshadowed by the 355/Maranello cars once Ferrari got back to actually building highly desirable cars.
Didn't Magnum Pi drive a 308 GTS Ferrari (1980s)? Just saying Ferrari was well known enough to be featured in a TV series. The 1G NSX made a brief appearance in the movie Pulp Fiction in 1994. There may have been earlier appearances, but I dunno.
And you're clueless. 
There was nothing prestige about owning a Ferrari during that era unless you bought the only 2 other models worth giving a damn about. The Mondial was a car well on its last legs & the 348/456 were completely overshadowed by the 355/Maranello cars once Ferrari got back to actually building highly desirable cars.

There was nothing prestige about owning a Ferrari during that era unless you bought the only 2 other models worth giving a damn about. The Mondial was a car well on its last legs & the 348/456 were completely overshadowed by the 355/Maranello cars once Ferrari got back to actually building highly desirable cars.
By that point, Ferrari already had decades of race heritage built up. A winning race heritage, at that.
It doesn't matter that they were unreliable hunks of garbage. They still sold because of prestige.
I'd hardly say that I was wrong though.
I'll even quote your own line, again, showing why Ferraris were selling. (in case you're not aware, it was prestige)
Not sure what you're thinking of or what you're trying to say, but I think you're kind of lost on the meaning of prestige. It's ok. We can still be friends.
They were building mediocre sports cars relying on the name to move them.
A few months back, all the major car mags published test drives and most agreed it didn't feel like a supercar, and that Acura had time to re-adjust the settings before production. But will Acura re-adjust the settings based soley on their feedback?Edit: I realized Honda has been out of racing for a decade or so. With the 1G NSX, Honda was in the thick of it, and winning, and being tuned by Rahal and Senna gave them bragging rights. For the 2G NSX, the same can't be said, and it's better PR-wise that they don't go there.
Last edited by WheelMcCoy; Feb 26, 2016 at 10:24 AM. Reason: Honda wasn't racing.
Ferrari is the definition of prestige and always has been. Along with Rolls, Bentley, Lambo, Aston, etc. It doesn't matter if the car sucks donkey balls, it's still a Ferrari and that name carries a metric shit ton of weight.
You said
When I informed that was wrong, that sleeve (aka journal) or ball bearings are used in turbos
You replied
They are not and if you read the quote you posted, it explicitly says what I've been telling you. Ball bearings have this horrible problem of expanding and contracting with heat. Floating a sleeve (and therefore the turbine shaft) on a film of oil does not have this issue.
You seem to be confusing lubricants and bearings. In most cases in a internal combustion engine, pressurized thin film oil provides the lubrication for the shell/ball/journal(aka sleeve) bearings. There are physical bearings for the crank, turbo, rods,.... and sometimes no physical bearings (i.e. cams in many Japanese cars). But the oil is the lubricant providing the load contact, friction reduction, and preventing metal/metal contact. i will agree that fluid bearings get confusing in terms of what is the bearing but in general, if it's a solid material it's the bearing and the gas/liquid is the lubricant.
Thanks for the details regarding Rahal. I'm worried that the 2G NSX was tuned by press car reviewers.
A few months back, all the major car mags published test drives and most agreed it didn't feel like a supercar, and that Acura had time to re-adjust the settings before production. But will Acura re-adjust the settings based soley on their feedback?
Edit: I realized Honda has been out of racing for a decade or so. With the 1G NSX, Honda was in the thick of it, and winning, and being tuned by Rahal and Senna gave them bragging rights. For the 2G NSX, the same can't be said, and it's better PR-wise that they don't go there.
A few months back, all the major car mags published test drives and most agreed it didn't feel like a supercar, and that Acura had time to re-adjust the settings before production. But will Acura re-adjust the settings based soley on their feedback?Edit: I realized Honda has been out of racing for a decade or so. With the 1G NSX, Honda was in the thick of it, and winning, and being tuned by Rahal and Senna gave them bragging rights. For the 2G NSX, the same can't be said, and it's better PR-wise that they don't go there.
On the race driver area, Michael Schumacher was involved with a fair amount of road car work while at Ferrari. He did promotional work for the F360, F430, Enzo and FXX. Supposedly he was also involved in some of the test driving of some of the those as well. Ferrari made a few promotional videos with Schumi and their roadcars and doing track time at Fiorano.
Last edited by Legend2TL; Feb 27, 2016 at 11:49 AM.
I am so old
that I am finding it amusing reading of youngsters who barely know about shows from my teen years of the 1980's.
You guys crack me up.
And yes, I did watch both shows in their time and enjoyed them. I even had a Testarossa AND a Countach on my wall for a time, in high school, in the mid-80's. Loved me some Crockett and Tubbs on Miami Vice in the mid-late 80's.
And yes, Ferrari sold even in the 80's based on prestige. I fail to see why that's even a discussion.
Acura will have to depend on something different to sell NSX 2.0, since they have little prestige.
that I am finding it amusing reading of youngsters who barely know about shows from my teen years of the 1980's.You guys crack me up.

And yes, I did watch both shows in their time and enjoyed them. I even had a Testarossa AND a Countach on my wall for a time, in high school, in the mid-80's. Loved me some Crockett and Tubbs on Miami Vice in the mid-late 80's.
And yes, Ferrari sold even in the 80's based on prestige. I fail to see why that's even a discussion.
Acura will have to depend on something different to sell NSX 2.0, since they have little prestige.
FYI, ball bearing have been used in turbos for decades.
When I informed that was wrong, that sleeve (aka journal) or ball bearings are used in turbos
You were wrong again.
You seem to be confusing lubricants and bearings. In most cases in a internal combustion engine, pressurized thin film oil provides the lubrication for the shell/ball/journal(aka sleeve) bearings. There are physical bearings for the crank, turbo, rods,.... and sometimes no physical bearings (i.e. cams in many Japanese cars). But the oil is the lubricant providing the load contact, friction reduction, and preventing metal/metal contact. i will agree that fluid bearings get confusing in terms of what is the bearing but in general, if it's a solid material it's the bearing and the gas/liquid is the lubricant.
When I informed that was wrong, that sleeve (aka journal) or ball bearings are used in turbos
You were wrong again.
You seem to be confusing lubricants and bearings. In most cases in a internal combustion engine, pressurized thin film oil provides the lubrication for the shell/ball/journal(aka sleeve) bearings. There are physical bearings for the crank, turbo, rods,.... and sometimes no physical bearings (i.e. cams in many Japanese cars). But the oil is the lubricant providing the load contact, friction reduction, and preventing metal/metal contact. i will agree that fluid bearings get confusing in terms of what is the bearing but in general, if it's a solid material it's the bearing and the gas/liquid is the lubricant.
Ball bearings have been used on turbos for years as thrust bearings on either end of the shaft, not for main rotational bearings.
Now I'm done.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cars_in_Miami_Vice
The Daytona's were Corvettes with fiberglass body panels.
Ferrari threaten to sue, then they donated a real Testarosa for the non-stunt work.
Woulda thought Magnum would gotten a free Ferrari's as well.
I'm not getting into an online pissing match about things. If you don't want to believe me then that's on you but you need to read up on what a sleeve bearing is. It's used for lots of things and is considered a type of bearing since it BEARS a load (hence the name). The oil is both the lubricant as well as the bearing in this case (in addition to being a coolant as well). Fluid bearings have been used for years in lots of applications in lots of industries.
Ball bearings have been used on turbos for years as thrust bearings on either end of the shaft, not for main rotational bearings.
Now I'm done.
Ball bearings have been used on turbos for years as thrust bearings on either end of the shaft, not for main rotational bearings.
Now I'm done.
Nissan did it 15 years ago for production GTR Skyline.
CART/Champ, F1 and Porsche had racing turbos with rotational ball bearings in them for decades before.
Simple reason, lower friction and faster boost spool up.
http://www.airpowersystems.com/wrx/aps_turbo.htm
Glad you're done because neither I nor turbocharger manufacturers believe you.
You proved yourself wrong with your own words, not mine I just stated the facts.
So in the future don't tell others they don't know what they're writing about on technical matters when it's obvious to all you don't.

Your words
They are not and if you read the quote you posted, it explicitly says what I've been telling you. Ball bearings have this horrible problem of expanding and contracting with heat. Floating a sleeve (and therefore the turbine shaft) on a film of oil does not have this issue.
Last edited by Legend2TL; Feb 29, 2016 at 01:06 PM.
Can you imagine the ad?
"SH-AWD.....pissing off Audi owners with non-torque vectoring Quattro for ten years."
The background story on the use of Ferrari's on Magnum and Miami Vice is sorta amusing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cars_in_Miami_Vice
The Daytona's were Corvettes with fiberglass body panels.
Ferrari threaten to sue, then they donated a real Testarosa for the non-stunt work.
Woulda thought Magnum would gotten a free Ferrari's as well.
Turbo's have used ball bearing for rotation bearings for years.
Nissan did it 15 years ago for production GTR Skyline.
CART/Champ, F1 and Porsche had racing turbos with rotational ball bearings in them for decades before.
Simple reason, lower friction and faster boost spool up.
APS Ball Bearing Turbocharger
Glad you're done because neither I nor turbocharger manufacturers believe you.
You proved yourself wrong with your own words, not mine I just stated the facts.
So in the future don't tell others they don't know what they're writing about on technical matters when it's obvious to all you don't.
Your words
I'm done as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cars_in_Miami_Vice
The Daytona's were Corvettes with fiberglass body panels.
Ferrari threaten to sue, then they donated a real Testarosa for the non-stunt work.
Woulda thought Magnum would gotten a free Ferrari's as well.
Turbo's have used ball bearing for rotation bearings for years.
Nissan did it 15 years ago for production GTR Skyline.
CART/Champ, F1 and Porsche had racing turbos with rotational ball bearings in them for decades before.
Simple reason, lower friction and faster boost spool up.
APS Ball Bearing Turbocharger
Glad you're done because neither I nor turbocharger manufacturers believe you.
You proved yourself wrong with your own words, not mine I just stated the facts.
So in the future don't tell others they don't know what they're writing about on technical matters when it's obvious to all you don't.

Your words
I'm done as well.

Last edited by RPhilMan1; Mar 1, 2016 at 08:58 AM.
I am so old
that I am finding it amusing reading of youngsters who barely know about shows from my teen years of the 1980's.
You guys crack me up.
And yes, I did watch both shows in their time and enjoyed them. I even had a Testarossa AND a Countach on my wall for a time, in high school, in the mid-80's. Loved me some Crockett and Tubbs on Miami Vice in the mid-late 80's.
And yes, Ferrari sold even in the 80's based on prestige. I fail to see why that's even a discussion.
Acura will have to depend on something different to sell NSX 2.0, since they have little prestige.
that I am finding it amusing reading of youngsters who barely know about shows from my teen years of the 1980's.You guys crack me up.

And yes, I did watch both shows in their time and enjoyed them. I even had a Testarossa AND a Countach on my wall for a time, in high school, in the mid-80's. Loved me some Crockett and Tubbs on Miami Vice in the mid-late 80's.
And yes, Ferrari sold even in the 80's based on prestige. I fail to see why that's even a discussion.
Acura will have to depend on something different to sell NSX 2.0, since they have little prestige.
, the 2G NSX better be good since I agree there is little pedigree in Honda/Acura (racing or production). When McLaren brought out the F1, Ron Dennis thought they'd fairly easily sell 250.
It was a harder sell than anticipated, they only sold 106, despite being the best supercar in the world, incredible attention to detail and with McLaren's racing reputation.
It was almost a financial disaster for McLaren, since they committed to larger production and had to break some agreements (IIRC BMW and Weismann)

I'm a engineer/manager, so I'm somewhat allowed to get away with poor gramar
Last edited by Legend2TL; Mar 1, 2016 at 09:29 AM.
Which shoes a video of a guy with a 07 RS4 trying to keep up (with very poor driving skills and allegedly possible 10yr old tires, since a tire pops at the end) with a (properly driven) NSX in the mountain roads.
Here's the video:
When McLaren brought out the F1, Ron Dennis thought they'd fairly easily sell 250.
It was a harder sell than anticipated, they only sold 106, despite being the best supercar in the world, incredible attention to detail and with McLaren's racing reputation.
It was almost a financial disaster for McLaren, since they committed to larger production and had to break some agreements (IIRC BMW and Weismann)
It was a harder sell than anticipated, they only sold 106, despite being the best supercar in the world, incredible attention to detail and with McLaren's racing reputation.
It was almost a financial disaster for McLaren, since they committed to larger production and had to break some agreements (IIRC BMW and Weismann)
Not that there wasn't plenty of millionaires back then, but I remember when winning 2M in the lottery (in Canada) was considered huge. These days, 2M seems to be fuck all.
Back when the F1 was released in the early 90s, spending a million bucks on a car was no easy feat. The number of millionaires since then has sky rocketed. I think the F1 would've sold much better these days, even if inflation was taken into account.
Not that there wasn't plenty of millionaires back then, but I remember when winning 2M in the lottery (in Canada) was considered huge. These days, 2M seems to be fuck all.
Not that there wasn't plenty of millionaires back then, but I remember when winning 2M in the lottery (in Canada) was considered huge. These days, 2M seems to be fuck all.

Agree with you, that was a rough time period for selling $1M supercars in the early 90's recession. It got so bad that Dennis and his McLaren co-owner/partner Mansour Ojjeh were flipping through their Rolodex's and calling their rich friends to interest them in buying a F1.
What was odd was Jaguar managed to sell ~2.5 more XJ220's (271) than F1's despite it being a inferior car at about the same price as a F1. As time has shown, used XJ220 sell for less than original new prices despite inflation and F1's go for multiple times their original price. So it sorta shows how great time has shown the F1 really was and is today overall.
Perhaps it was Jaguar had a more prestigious name and heritage. One area that I always loved about the F1 was it's racing design function was more important than form. Gordon Murray (McLaren chief engineer and F1 designer) had final say on almost all technical matters. He insisted on the center driver's seat, which was fine for his friend's like George Harrison and others who knew that was the best position. But alot of other rich folks were not keen on it.
Same goes for the brake master cylinders, two separate master cylinders (front and rear) with a center mechanical bias adjustment linkage. Even a F40 uses a single master cylinder with a proportional brake fluid bias valve. Not good enough for Murray, he wanted what he always designed into his F1 cars since a mechanical bias had superior brake feel and could easily be adjusted for bias. Similar for the purpose built V12 BMW engine and custom Weismann extremely short gearbox. However Murray could be convinced of a partsbin engineering too, the rear tail lights are sourced from an Italian bus.
If you watch that Jay Leno video on the 2G NSX, he mentions a couple times how the 1G NSX inspired Murray for the F1. Murray was so impressed by the 1G NSX, he owned and drove one for several years.
His commentary on the 1G NSX.
A Car Dear to my Heart - Gordon Murray on the Honda NSX
To this day, the NSX is still a car that is near and dear to my heart. I put 75,000 Km on my NSX over the course of six or seven years.
It's very difficult to discuss the NSX using current values and sensibilities. When the NSX debuted, the word "supercar" was still a relatively new idea in Europe. There are some who would say the Lamborghini Miura from the late 1960s was the first supercar. However, the truth is the explosion of modern supercars really started at the end of the 1980s.
Gordon Murray on the Honda NSX
At the end of the 80s was the time when McLaren Cars was conceiving the idea for the McLaren F1. To that end, I was concentrating on coming up with what I wanted in a road car.
To my thinking, the ideal car is one in which I could get in the driver's seat and be out for a drive in downtown London and then want to continue straight on to the South of France. A car that you can trust, with functional air conditioning and retains daily drivability. No offset pedals allowed. No high dashboards restricting your view either. Having a low roof hitting your head every time you go over a bump in the name of aerodynamics and styling is out of the question. It is essential that a supercar be a pleasure to drive, and anything detracting from that must be excised.
I started by driving the cars known then as "supercars." The Porsche 959, Bugatti EB110, Ferrari F40, Jaguar XJ220. Unfortunately, none of these fit the pattern of the supercar we were trying to build. What we wanted was a relatively compact, usable driver's car. The Porsche 911 had the usability, but with the engine packed in the back, it had a weakness in its handling stability.
During this time, we were able to visit with Ayrton Senna (the late F1 Champion) Honda's Tochigi Research Center. The visit related to the fact that at the time, McLaren's F1 Grand Prix cars were using Honda engines.
Gordon Murray on the Honda NSX
Coincidentally, I spotted an NSX prototype parked near the course. I also learned at the time that Ayrton was assisting in the development of the NSX and that Honda rear mid-engined sports car–the NSX–was the friendly supercar that we had been looking for. This car had perfectly functional air conditioning, a reasonably roomy trunk and of course, it was a Honda, with the high levels of quality and reliability that implies.
Then I had the opportunity to drive it. Along with Ron Dennis (President, McLaren Cars) and Mansour Ojjeh (Tag McLaren Group Representative), we drove the prototype on the Tochigi Research Center test course. I remember being moved, thinking, "It is remarkable how our vision comes through in this car."
Of course as you know, the engine has only six cylinders; however, the NSX's very rigid chassis is excellent and would easily be capable of handling more power. Although it's true I had thought it would have been better to put a larger engine, the moment I drove the "little" NSX, all the benchmark cars–Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini–I had been using as references in the development of my car vanished from my mind. Of course the car we would create, the McLaren F1, needed to be faster than the NSX, but the NSX's ride quality and handling would become our new design target.
Gordon Murray on the Honda NSX
When working on the development of a new car for years, it's easy to be caught in certain pitfalls. When you drive the car under development for testing every day (in truth, I was responsible for two-thirds of the testing for the McLaren F1), in that time, you can unknowingly convince yourself you are making progress when in fact you are not. For example, it's human nature that at the end of a long day you may want to think that your efforts to reduce low speed harshness are working better than they are. It is at times like this when you need a car to compare with. In those situations, the NSX time and again showed us the path in the areas of ride quality and handling, and also helped us recognize when we weren't making as much progress as we thought.
In my opinion, the NSX's most special quality has long been overlooked.
That could be summarized with the words, "The NSX's suspension is amazing."
Both the body and suspension are aluminum, and it probably couldn't be helped that journalists' attention has been focused on praising the aluminum body. However, the suspension is the much more impressive use of aluminum.
Gordon Murray on the Honda NSX
It's lightweight, tough, yet compliant. Also contributing to the refined NSX's handling and ride quality are 17 inch wheels and tires that are not overly large. The NSX's suspension is truly an ingenious system, and back then I imagined the development costs must have been enormous. To achieve that unparalleled accuracy and superior ride quality, longitudinal wheel movement is allowed via the use of a compliance pivot.
Compliance refers to when you travel over a bump, the tire experiences a longitudinal force, which the tire and suspension must move with and absorb the shock. The pivot couples the upper and lower arms. It is connected to the arms via ball joints so that they move as a unit. When encountering input, the pivot rotates, keeping alignment changes to near zero while retaining compliance (see diagram). The inspiration obtained from this NSX suspension system would later influence the development of the McLaren F1′s suspension.
The NSX was also the first car to use DBW (Drive By Wire). It felt very pleasing. DBW is when instead of using a mechanical cable, an electronic signal is used to communicate throttle position. It achieved a very natural, linear feeling throttle, and I can now hide my embarrassment and confess that I copied the idea during the development of the McLaren F1 (laughs).
The low-slung NSX's driver's seat position also provided just the right head clearance and an amazing field of view. The NSX development team moved the air conditioning unit away from the dash and deep into the NSX's nose in order to obtain more space. That air conditioning unit is an excellent one, and normally, you don't notice whether it's on or not.
On the day I bought the NSX, I pressed the "Auto" button and since then until selling it, I never had to touch it. It was that perfect. Ah, I also remember the audio system as being very good.
However, the media wrote up the aluminum body and the many merits and advantages I perceived in the NSX have largely been overlooked.
In my opinion, the NSX, while being such a great sports car, had two large flaws in its marketing. First, at the time, the public was not ready to accept a Japanese car that was this expensive. The second is that for supercar customers, the power figures were not quite high enough. Of course, the prototype's engine was not bad, and soon the VTEC engine was added. Whenever I hear that VTEC sound it's amazing. I am repeating myself, but the NSX's excellent chassis would have been capable of handling much more power.
With just a slightly lower price, or possibly selling it with a different brand name and a different badge, or perhaps endowing it with a touch flashier and more aggressive styling and additional power, there is no question the NSX would have reigned as a cult star of the supercars.
However, during that time, in Honda's philosophy there was a resistance to large engines with many cylinders. I am not certain, but probably at the time, the voluntary restraint on power limits was a factor. Being a fan of Honda engines, I later went to Honda's Tochigi Research Center on two occasions and requested that they consider building for the McLaren F1 a 4.5 liter V10 or V12. I asked, I tried to persuade them, but in the end could not convince them to do it, and the McLaren F1 ended up equipped with a BMW engine.
The NSX's development costs must have been enormous. Everything on it is unique. The chassis, powertrain, even the air conditioning are peerless. That aluminum body was very expensive. The numerous hurdles overcome by the NSX to reach production in areas such as spot welding, corrosion, and repairability make it a monumental work in automotive history. The philosophy of creating a car for human beings is apparent throughout. If it were me, I probably would not have obsessed over the aluminum and would have settled for a steel structure with aluminum panels to try to achieve a similar weight reduction. But what I really want to emphasize is the suspension. It is a a groundbreaking use of aluminum.
There are a few things that could be improved on the NSX. First, the tires are too soft. Over the seven years I ran mine, I went through 14 sets of tires. After changing over to harder-compound Michelins in the rear, my tire life increased. As a result, rear grip was decreased slightly, but driving became more fun. The NSX's traction control and ABS are first generation systems and as a result are somewhat slow-acting. I also missed having more storage space in the interior. However, such things hardly seem significant in a sports car of this calibre.
The NSX is a landmark car. It awoke not only a lazy Ferrari, but Porsche as well and sparked advances in usability, ergonomics, and handling. It may not have achieved success from a marketing standpoint, but many influential and important people have owned them. The NSX is also unusual in that it continued to be on sale for so long. If I were to looking for that type of car now, I would–without a doubt–gladly own an NSX again.
-Gordon Murray
To this day, the NSX is still a car that is near and dear to my heart. I put 75,000 Km on my NSX over the course of six or seven years.
It's very difficult to discuss the NSX using current values and sensibilities. When the NSX debuted, the word "supercar" was still a relatively new idea in Europe. There are some who would say the Lamborghini Miura from the late 1960s was the first supercar. However, the truth is the explosion of modern supercars really started at the end of the 1980s.
Gordon Murray on the Honda NSX
At the end of the 80s was the time when McLaren Cars was conceiving the idea for the McLaren F1. To that end, I was concentrating on coming up with what I wanted in a road car.
To my thinking, the ideal car is one in which I could get in the driver's seat and be out for a drive in downtown London and then want to continue straight on to the South of France. A car that you can trust, with functional air conditioning and retains daily drivability. No offset pedals allowed. No high dashboards restricting your view either. Having a low roof hitting your head every time you go over a bump in the name of aerodynamics and styling is out of the question. It is essential that a supercar be a pleasure to drive, and anything detracting from that must be excised.
I started by driving the cars known then as "supercars." The Porsche 959, Bugatti EB110, Ferrari F40, Jaguar XJ220. Unfortunately, none of these fit the pattern of the supercar we were trying to build. What we wanted was a relatively compact, usable driver's car. The Porsche 911 had the usability, but with the engine packed in the back, it had a weakness in its handling stability.
During this time, we were able to visit with Ayrton Senna (the late F1 Champion) Honda's Tochigi Research Center. The visit related to the fact that at the time, McLaren's F1 Grand Prix cars were using Honda engines.
Gordon Murray on the Honda NSX
Coincidentally, I spotted an NSX prototype parked near the course. I also learned at the time that Ayrton was assisting in the development of the NSX and that Honda rear mid-engined sports car–the NSX–was the friendly supercar that we had been looking for. This car had perfectly functional air conditioning, a reasonably roomy trunk and of course, it was a Honda, with the high levels of quality and reliability that implies.
Then I had the opportunity to drive it. Along with Ron Dennis (President, McLaren Cars) and Mansour Ojjeh (Tag McLaren Group Representative), we drove the prototype on the Tochigi Research Center test course. I remember being moved, thinking, "It is remarkable how our vision comes through in this car."
Of course as you know, the engine has only six cylinders; however, the NSX's very rigid chassis is excellent and would easily be capable of handling more power. Although it's true I had thought it would have been better to put a larger engine, the moment I drove the "little" NSX, all the benchmark cars–Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini–I had been using as references in the development of my car vanished from my mind. Of course the car we would create, the McLaren F1, needed to be faster than the NSX, but the NSX's ride quality and handling would become our new design target.
Gordon Murray on the Honda NSX
When working on the development of a new car for years, it's easy to be caught in certain pitfalls. When you drive the car under development for testing every day (in truth, I was responsible for two-thirds of the testing for the McLaren F1), in that time, you can unknowingly convince yourself you are making progress when in fact you are not. For example, it's human nature that at the end of a long day you may want to think that your efforts to reduce low speed harshness are working better than they are. It is at times like this when you need a car to compare with. In those situations, the NSX time and again showed us the path in the areas of ride quality and handling, and also helped us recognize when we weren't making as much progress as we thought.
In my opinion, the NSX's most special quality has long been overlooked.
That could be summarized with the words, "The NSX's suspension is amazing."
Both the body and suspension are aluminum, and it probably couldn't be helped that journalists' attention has been focused on praising the aluminum body. However, the suspension is the much more impressive use of aluminum.
Gordon Murray on the Honda NSX
It's lightweight, tough, yet compliant. Also contributing to the refined NSX's handling and ride quality are 17 inch wheels and tires that are not overly large. The NSX's suspension is truly an ingenious system, and back then I imagined the development costs must have been enormous. To achieve that unparalleled accuracy and superior ride quality, longitudinal wheel movement is allowed via the use of a compliance pivot.
Compliance refers to when you travel over a bump, the tire experiences a longitudinal force, which the tire and suspension must move with and absorb the shock. The pivot couples the upper and lower arms. It is connected to the arms via ball joints so that they move as a unit. When encountering input, the pivot rotates, keeping alignment changes to near zero while retaining compliance (see diagram). The inspiration obtained from this NSX suspension system would later influence the development of the McLaren F1′s suspension.
The NSX was also the first car to use DBW (Drive By Wire). It felt very pleasing. DBW is when instead of using a mechanical cable, an electronic signal is used to communicate throttle position. It achieved a very natural, linear feeling throttle, and I can now hide my embarrassment and confess that I copied the idea during the development of the McLaren F1 (laughs).
The low-slung NSX's driver's seat position also provided just the right head clearance and an amazing field of view. The NSX development team moved the air conditioning unit away from the dash and deep into the NSX's nose in order to obtain more space. That air conditioning unit is an excellent one, and normally, you don't notice whether it's on or not.
On the day I bought the NSX, I pressed the "Auto" button and since then until selling it, I never had to touch it. It was that perfect. Ah, I also remember the audio system as being very good.
However, the media wrote up the aluminum body and the many merits and advantages I perceived in the NSX have largely been overlooked.
In my opinion, the NSX, while being such a great sports car, had two large flaws in its marketing. First, at the time, the public was not ready to accept a Japanese car that was this expensive. The second is that for supercar customers, the power figures were not quite high enough. Of course, the prototype's engine was not bad, and soon the VTEC engine was added. Whenever I hear that VTEC sound it's amazing. I am repeating myself, but the NSX's excellent chassis would have been capable of handling much more power.
With just a slightly lower price, or possibly selling it with a different brand name and a different badge, or perhaps endowing it with a touch flashier and more aggressive styling and additional power, there is no question the NSX would have reigned as a cult star of the supercars.
However, during that time, in Honda's philosophy there was a resistance to large engines with many cylinders. I am not certain, but probably at the time, the voluntary restraint on power limits was a factor. Being a fan of Honda engines, I later went to Honda's Tochigi Research Center on two occasions and requested that they consider building for the McLaren F1 a 4.5 liter V10 or V12. I asked, I tried to persuade them, but in the end could not convince them to do it, and the McLaren F1 ended up equipped with a BMW engine.
The NSX's development costs must have been enormous. Everything on it is unique. The chassis, powertrain, even the air conditioning are peerless. That aluminum body was very expensive. The numerous hurdles overcome by the NSX to reach production in areas such as spot welding, corrosion, and repairability make it a monumental work in automotive history. The philosophy of creating a car for human beings is apparent throughout. If it were me, I probably would not have obsessed over the aluminum and would have settled for a steel structure with aluminum panels to try to achieve a similar weight reduction. But what I really want to emphasize is the suspension. It is a a groundbreaking use of aluminum.
There are a few things that could be improved on the NSX. First, the tires are too soft. Over the seven years I ran mine, I went through 14 sets of tires. After changing over to harder-compound Michelins in the rear, my tire life increased. As a result, rear grip was decreased slightly, but driving became more fun. The NSX's traction control and ABS are first generation systems and as a result are somewhat slow-acting. I also missed having more storage space in the interior. However, such things hardly seem significant in a sports car of this calibre.
The NSX is a landmark car. It awoke not only a lazy Ferrari, but Porsche as well and sparked advances in usability, ergonomics, and handling. It may not have achieved success from a marketing standpoint, but many influential and important people have owned them. The NSX is also unusual in that it continued to be on sale for so long. If I were to looking for that type of car now, I would–without a doubt–gladly own an NSX again.
-Gordon Murray
Curious what Murray will think of the 2G NSX?
Ah, rambling on too much gotta get back to work.
Last edited by Legend2TL; Mar 1, 2016 at 02:39 PM.
Not exactly.
Tom Selleck stole the Ferrari from Miami Vice and painted it red.
Agree. As likeable as Jerry Seinfeld and Jay Leno are, they don't bring out the NSX's sex appeal.
Tom Selleck stole the Ferrari from Miami Vice and painted it red. Agree. As likeable as Jerry Seinfeld and Jay Leno are, they don't bring out the NSX's sex appeal.
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