HBaJ

I bet if you ask half the grandma's that own an ES won't say they bought one because it was FWD, if they know at all.

The reason people "stick around this forum" is because it's a great one filled with great opinions from people who own different cars, I dare you to try to find one comparable to it. Shocked that you stopped posting on your Pontiac forum btw..

Yumcha

Without the proper tires, my FX would be wrapped around a tree/lamppost somewhere...

Tires all the way. And some common sense in driving. Period.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Never had a problem with RWD here in NC. Then again, never had a problem when we lived in NY either.

In NY, common sense and a good set of Blizzaks worked like a charm!!

Oh and Car Talk is more like Audizine/Bimmerzine/Infinitizine/Mercedeszine and even Hyundaizine then it is Acurazine... and most members are former Acura owners.

saturno_v

Grandma probably bought one because the salesman told her it does good in the snow....not because is a FWD...

I never did post anything...are you a regular??

saturno_v

I want to end the lovefest here...you guys are missing my point (what a surprise)...of course with common sense and proper tires, any car behaves better in the snow.....does a 300C with chains have better traction than a A4 quattro with bald summer tires?? yes...happy now??? My point was simply, that when the weather turn seriously south, at least around here. the first cars to have trouble are in general RWD and pick-ups....for whatever reason..incompetent drivers, wrong tires, etc.....everybody knows it and everybody can see it......often in the mountain passes you need to legally install chains if your car is not AWD.....all else being equal, AWD (and FWD) cars have advantages (they are easier to control, not necessarily safer) in slippery conditions and yesterday it was very clear....obviously this is self-evident except on here....

P.S.

I never had any problem with my RWD cars when I got cought in snow (and even without snow tires)...that does not mean they were fun to go around or as easy as my AWD and FWD.

fsttyms1

Tires are more important than what ever wheels drive the car. Driver skill/judgment is next.

He was at one of our ice racing events this winter. Wanna guess who was faster than the FWD class and most of the AWD class?? (and some of the sti's and evos are pushing 400+ to the wheels) Yep, you guessed it RWD. (and there are some really fast FWD and AWD cars that run)

fsttyms1

Which inherently circles right back to TIRES and DRIVER. Not what wheels power the car. I prefer RWD in the winter. Not only is it more fun, for me its easier to control. I like the wheels that power the car not to be the wheels that turn it (except for awd)

Yumcha

I very rarely activate the full-AWD function on the FX. I'm usually going at it in RWD mode and letting the car decide if it needs to kick in AWD on its own.

Yumcha

Tires FTW. AWD is...meh.

saturno_v

You put the same pilot with the same good tires on an AWD and he will find it on average easier to control..unless we are talking racing where the RWD end losing grip can actually used to your advantage...especially when you do not worry about occasionally hitting a snow curb on a closed track instead of a concrete barrier in traffic.

Then there is snow and snow...as I said when i was in Calgary it was amazing to me how much the dry packed snow over there was "concrete feel"...not so around here.

A mile down the road from my house today there is a street that turned inot a slick sheet of perfect ice...I challenge you to drive on it with any car (RWD, AWD, whatever) or any tire other than studs or chain.

P.S.

Another huge advantage, regardless of FWD or RWD in snow is the presence of a limited slip differential.

Yumcha

Packed snow equates to more black ice, dude. How is Calgary driving easier...?

Yumcha

And wrong. A good driver can easily man a FWD, RWD, and AWD all the same. His driving STYLE may differ. But, otherwise...the same capability overall.

Again, depends on the tires.



Sure, if it makes you feel better, I suppose we could all just shut up and hail the superiorness of AWD. Happy?

fsttyms1

Easier to drive doing what? at 10/10ths sure AWD will most likely be easier to drive for the vast majority (it is also the reason most AWD guys are getting pulled out of the snow bank at the races (i attend), it makes them feel like they are better drivers than they are) At normal speeds driving, a RWD car with good snow tires will be no more difficult to drive than a FWD with or without snows, especially now days with TCS/ESC etc....

saturno_v

Never drove in Calgary....but people and my cab drivers were going like freaking rockets with any car and no particularly fancy tires as far as I remember.....I can tell you that under my feet the snow felt almost like concrete..rough.......

saturno_v

A good driver can easily adapt.....and yes there are cars more difficult to drive than others....skills notwithstanding..denying that is absurd.


AWD cars are easier to control and they give you wider margin for error...if you are an idiot that wants to fly at 100 mph on ice because you drive an AWD and you end up on a ditch is a different story...if they did not have advantages no car company would build them don't you think??? Maybe the major car manufacturers should read the "car talk" section of the Acurazine forum and learn that they are wasting their time and money.

Everybody on the internet is a top pilot...truth is that on real roads with real cars I seen my share of guys driving Bimmers (I'm not picking on BMW...just did happen more than once with them) going sidewise on wet roads trying to stay behind me (no I did not drive an Acura at that time, so just to clarify) and I'm not that good...not everybody is a race driver...

Yumcha

Dude...I'm not saying I'm a top driver. Hell, if I were, I think I would have different profession. But, you're making the argument that AWD is the ace here for drivers and I'm telling you it is not.

It is tires. Where I live, we have blizzards regularly where the roads go to absolute hell. The cars all in the ditch are mostly due to poor driving and underestimating the effects the weather has had on the road. I see many SUVs, pick-ups, and other cars in accidents equally.

And amongst the people I speak to, the biggest difference overall is winter tires...NOT AWD. If that were the case, I would be happily putzing around town in my Dunlops and switching on the "Snow" setting for the FX.

saturno_v

Tires are definitely very important (heck, I installed the Blizzak a month ago on my wife's STI)

AWD is not an "ace"...it helps, giving you more margin for error and easier control...a lot...

If you decide to waste away that margin and extra help and behave like Santa Andretti is another story...

Ask yourself...why do they build AWD cars in the first place??

vwong

Costco

Pretty much.

and pttl is on point.... I've seen this guy's threads, he's like SSFTSX with better grammar and linguistic ability. Now I remember why this guy's on my ignore list

I shouldn't have logged on to make a reply in the first place...

saturno_v

Costco

You are really on my ignore list, infact I had to momentarily "de-ignore" you to read your reply...so if you can read my messages I'm not on your ignore list...you are a liar and a squared idiot...probably the worst around here

Scrib

what the...

Crazy Bimmer

That was awesome.

pttl

Gold Jerry! Gold!

SRK85

I personally do not like RWD myself I always end up spinning out, if its raining hydroplaning, and if it snows its a pain the ass. I like FWD or AWD much better I can floor my car with no problems and never get stuck in the grass when backing out of the driveway. I don't understand the love for RWD.

Legend2TL

IMO driver skill/judgement > tires > drive wheel config

mclarenf3387

AWD helps you get going in the snow but thats it. After that it all comes down to tires. My truck on all seasons will get going no problem even on the steepest of hills, but when it starts to slide in a turn, those front wheels getting power does nothing to help me. My M5 on blizzaks on the other hand is slightly tough to get going sometimes, but almost never loses traction, even with me being a dumbass thanks to the tires.

They build AWD cars to sell to the idiots where it snows who think thats all they need to get around in the winter.

Driving ability counts for nothing if you have the wrong tires. I deal with this constantly at work with customers cars. Moving a BMW 550 with sport package on the summer tires in snow just isn't going to happen no matter if you're Mario Andretti or some kid who got his license yesterday.

Legend2TL

I disagree, brain power will get one to slow down or more importantly discontinue driving. Snow tires only improve traction so much.

A friend's kid brother put his Blizak equipped Jetta into a ditch last winter, basic cockpit error. His brother driving a 328 with all-season tires picked him up only half a hour later had no problem. Basic reason, he knew the road conditions and drove more cautiously.

I've been caught out driving in a ~10 ice storms in my life and using my judgment/skill always made it through. Understanding the friction circle and dynamic/static friction can help you alot in poor conditions.

A sorta amusing story was a former colleague got caught in a sudden snow storm on the PA turnpike in his C4 Vette with Goodyear VR50 tires, driving 20-30 MPH he made it back to Baltimore.

Crazy Bimmer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-diu2KDn7d4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM2gLjfE_3Y



AWD sure didnt help any.

saturno_v

Thank you for the well thought, precise, deep technical answer...

In the World Rally Championship are all idiots and bad drivers for switching to AWD more than 25 years ago....I see...

mitch14

i don't even know what to reply to next in this thread, there is just too much...

CCColtsicehockey

TheMirror

Who has time to argue this much? Saturno, wrap it up please.

ThermonMermon

funny, ive been driving FWD for the past 10 years. but, for the past 2 months, ive had RWD. I cannot notice any difference what-so-ever in the driving experience. (although the RWD car has not and will not see snow).

is there a noticeable difference in FWD/AWD/RWD in ideal weather conditions?

teranfon

I've driven many configurations of automobile throughout my driving history, and for the most part have always lived in Alberta, a province arguably covered by snow five months of the year. It's been my personal experience that FWD cars are better in snowy and icy conditions when compared to RWD cars equipped with the same tires. It stands to reason that the extra weight over the driving wheels aids in traction in wintery conditions.

I've also found that tire technology has advanced greatly in areas such as winter driving, and RWD vehicles have improved greatly in icy conditions. Equipped with true winter tires, they now perform just as well as FWD cars equipped with all-season tires. In deep snow, the FWD still seems to perform better, again attributed to the additional weight over the driving wheels.

I think much is dependent upon the individual driver and the care taken while driving in wintery conditions. I think an adequate driver, being careful, can make full use of a FWD's inherent advantages during winter driving, while someone even more careful can expect a RWD equipped with proper tires to perform just as well. Me? I drive pickup trucks and Expeditions as regular drivers, and none of them are equipped with true winter tires and are seldom locked in 4WD. Driving appropriately to winter conditions, I seldom have a problem.





Terry

vwong

Define "ideal". If your definition of "ideal" is sunny, warm, and dry conditions, then no, there is no noticeable difference in FWD, AWD, or RWD under normal driving. However, there will be differences in aggressive driving.

charliemike

You get out of here with that blasphemy!

charliemike

If you haven't noticed a difference you're driving like my grandmother

Just get on teh gas and take a turn and you'll feel the difference right away. The car will turn and not try to push itself into the curb or a lightpole

saturno_v

There is hope after all...I found him, I found him!!! An individual with a little bit of common sense and logic that doesn't argue for the sake of arguing in the Trash Corner of Acurazine.com.....wow, I'm impressed...

saturno_v

.......Hasn't prevented me to whip the ass of RWD drivers really good my dear (and someone almost ended in the ditch), and, as I said, I'm not that good...just out of curiosity...how old are you?? I suspect I was driving RWD cars when you were still wanking off or playing with Pacman....so you love RWD and you drive a.....Jetta???

charliemike

Do me a favor Werner von Braun, go back to whatever hole you crawled out of ... Kthxbi.