Affordable and interesting $/hp cars
11-30-2016, 08:02 PM
#161
Safety Car
Thread Starter
I think this thread is losing focus because it started with an unclear premise.
But let's take it back to what inspired it, which is the STS-V. Honestly I had no idea that car existed either, and it is a very intriguing buy to me now. I've been looking at 1st Gen CTS-V for a long time now, but the exterior and interior just couldn't push me over the edge. The STS-V on the other hand, I am going to have to look into.
But anyway the list got bogged down because we were also looking at horsepower for the dollar. If that's the case, C5 Z06, 996 911 Turbo, and any of the '55 AMG series will be top of those lists. But you better hurry on the 996 Turbos because they are coming back in value...
Instead, I think the point of this list should be to focus on the overlooked cars. So obvious cars shouldn't be mentioned (BMW M5, etc). For those cars, they'd be more appropriate for a thread about desirable cars that have depreciated into bargains.
So here's my contribution in addition to the aforementioned STS-V: 2003 - 2006 Jaguar S-Type R - Below $15,000 with a supercharged Ford derived 4.2 V8.
But let's take it back to what inspired it, which is the STS-V. Honestly I had no idea that car existed either, and it is a very intriguing buy to me now. I've been looking at 1st Gen CTS-V for a long time now, but the exterior and interior just couldn't push me over the edge. The STS-V on the other hand, I am going to have to look into.
But anyway the list got bogged down because we were also looking at horsepower for the dollar. If that's the case, C5 Z06, 996 911 Turbo, and any of the '55 AMG series will be top of those lists. But you better hurry on the 996 Turbos because they are coming back in value...
Instead, I think the point of this list should be to focus on the overlooked cars. So obvious cars shouldn't be mentioned (BMW M5, etc). For those cars, they'd be more appropriate for a thread about desirable cars that have depreciated into bargains.
So here's my contribution in addition to the aforementioned STS-V: 2003 - 2006 Jaguar S-Type R - Below $15,000 with a supercharged Ford derived 4.2 V8.
But I did hesitate to include cars like the C5 Z06 since I was thinking these are SO popular it would be useless to be in this list since every car enthusiast knows of it...whereas the STS-V, as you mentioned, may be much more unknown but a real gem of a find should one know about it or able to acquire it.
Maybe use the uncommon/rare + higher relative performance for its time. And remove FWD-4bangers and maybe set hp limit for newer cars.
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TacoBello (11-30-2016)
11-30-2016, 11:22 PM
#162
Team Owner
12-01-2016, 02:42 AM
#163
Agreed, personally. Maybe 350Hp just to add variety & more discussion.
Since the original post was looking at $30,000 as the limit & for cars with the best horsepower for that money, I would try to set the '17 Mustang GT (435Bhp for $33,000) as the benchmark and see what on the used market comes close to that. I have nothing against the S2000 or Miata, but those don't come close unless we want to adopt a $30,000 budget that would allow one to modify either of those to 400Bhp+ plus cost of car, or try to find the best performance/$. Unfortunately, both of those expand into other topics that surpasses the original HP/$30K in the OP.
Since the original post was looking at $30,000 as the limit & for cars with the best horsepower for that money, I would try to set the '17 Mustang GT (435Bhp for $33,000) as the benchmark and see what on the used market comes close to that. I have nothing against the S2000 or Miata, but those don't come close unless we want to adopt a $30,000 budget that would allow one to modify either of those to 400Bhp+ plus cost of car, or try to find the best performance/$. Unfortunately, both of those expand into other topics that surpasses the original HP/$30K in the OP.
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nist7 (12-01-2016)
12-01-2016, 08:24 AM
#166
Moderator
I think this thread is losing focus because it started with an unclear premise.
But let's take it back to what inspired it, which is the STS-V. Honestly I had no idea that car existed either, and it is a very intriguing buy to me now. I've been looking at 1st Gen CTS-V for a long time now, but the exterior and interior just couldn't push me over the edge. The STS-V on the other hand, I am going to have to look into.
But anyway the list got bogged down because we were also looking at horsepower for the dollar. If that's the case, C5 Z06, 996 911 Turbo, and any of the '55 AMG series will be top of those lists. But you better hurry on the 996 Turbos because they are coming back in value...
Instead, I think the point of this list should be to focus on the overlooked cars. So obvious cars shouldn't be mentioned (BMW M5, etc). For those cars, they'd be more appropriate for a thread about desirable cars that have depreciated into bargains.
So here's my contribution in addition to the aforementioned STS-V: 2003 - 2006 Jaguar S-Type R - Below $15,000 with a supercharged Ford derived 4.2 V8.
But let's take it back to what inspired it, which is the STS-V. Honestly I had no idea that car existed either, and it is a very intriguing buy to me now. I've been looking at 1st Gen CTS-V for a long time now, but the exterior and interior just couldn't push me over the edge. The STS-V on the other hand, I am going to have to look into.
But anyway the list got bogged down because we were also looking at horsepower for the dollar. If that's the case, C5 Z06, 996 911 Turbo, and any of the '55 AMG series will be top of those lists. But you better hurry on the 996 Turbos because they are coming back in value...
Instead, I think the point of this list should be to focus on the overlooked cars. So obvious cars shouldn't be mentioned (BMW M5, etc). For those cars, they'd be more appropriate for a thread about desirable cars that have depreciated into bargains.
So here's my contribution in addition to the aforementioned STS-V: 2003 - 2006 Jaguar S-Type R - Below $15,000 with a supercharged Ford derived 4.2 V8.
12-01-2016, 09:31 AM
#168
I think this thread is losing focus because it started with an unclear premise.
But let's take it back to what inspired it, which is the STS-V. Honestly I had no idea that car existed either, and it is a very intriguing buy to me now. I've been looking at 1st Gen CTS-V for a long time now, but the exterior and interior just couldn't push me over the edge. The STS-V on the other hand, I am going to have to look into.
But anyway the list got bogged down because we were also looking at horsepower for the dollar. If that's the case, C5 Z06, 996 911 Turbo, and any of the '55 AMG series will be top of those lists. But you better hurry on the 996 Turbos because they are coming back in value...
Instead, I think the point of this list should be to focus on the overlooked cars. So obvious cars shouldn't be mentioned (BMW M5, etc). For those cars, they'd be more appropriate for a thread about desirable cars that have depreciated into bargains.
So here's my contribution in addition to the aforementioned STS-V: 2003 - 2006 Jaguar S-Type R - Below $15,000 with a supercharged Ford derived 4.2 V8.
But let's take it back to what inspired it, which is the STS-V. Honestly I had no idea that car existed either, and it is a very intriguing buy to me now. I've been looking at 1st Gen CTS-V for a long time now, but the exterior and interior just couldn't push me over the edge. The STS-V on the other hand, I am going to have to look into.
But anyway the list got bogged down because we were also looking at horsepower for the dollar. If that's the case, C5 Z06, 996 911 Turbo, and any of the '55 AMG series will be top of those lists. But you better hurry on the 996 Turbos because they are coming back in value...
Instead, I think the point of this list should be to focus on the overlooked cars. So obvious cars shouldn't be mentioned (BMW M5, etc). For those cars, they'd be more appropriate for a thread about desirable cars that have depreciated into bargains.
So here's my contribution in addition to the aforementioned STS-V: 2003 - 2006 Jaguar S-Type R - Below $15,000 with a supercharged Ford derived 4.2 V8.
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12-02-2016, 08:16 AM
#171
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I have been thinking about this for a couple of days, not really daring to talk about it after the reception my KC2 recommendation got.
:-)
I owned an odd car for about ten years, although I seldom drove it, or dared to drive it.
It was a 1969 300SEL 6.3 (109 chassis).
It was interesting to drive, to say the least.
It had an air suspension, and this car was put together by hand long, long before there were any electronic controls to regulate things like that. If you went into a curve at high speed, you'd turn the huge honking steering wheel the direction you'd think was appropriate, then after about ¼ s the air suspension would take its "set," usually forcing you to correct your steering.
Oversteer and at least a mild drift became a way of life if you were in a hurry. Pictures of the car going through a high speed turn, you could usually see that the front wheels were pointed the wrong way.
8 miles per gallon. If you were lucky. :-)
The four speed gearbox usually started off in second just because there was enough torque for that. "P" was at the back of the gate instead of the front. You'd think in those days they'd offer a manual, but the truth was that they didn't have any manual strong enough to handle the power of the 6.3, so the only thing they could shove in there was the 4 speed automatic from the 600 Pullman.
It had no torque converter. 0_o To this day, I'm damned if I know how it worked, but it did. It was not gentle, either. But it worked.
Although the car had been rolled out first in Germany and France and proved completely reliable, they quickly started turning up weird propeller shaft and rear axle problems in the United States.
It turned out that Americans were running right on out to the California drag strips, and they hadn't counted on that. Redesigned parts for the rear end, and heavier duty rubber dampers for the propeller shafts took care of that.
The insides of all of these things, like many antiques, smell just wonderful: An odd but very attractive combination of sun-bleached Bakelite, burned oil, and the most wonderful high quality leather.
So, here's the thing: Your 30,000 price point.
You will find these old things in completely streetable condition at that price point.
As soon as the first thing goes wrong, of course, you're in knee deep in the horse barn.
Mercedes, you see, promised that parts for these cars would always be available, even if they had to figure out how to one-off a particular part for you. Thing is, they never promised those parts would be cheap. :-)
:-)
I owned an odd car for about ten years, although I seldom drove it, or dared to drive it.
It was a 1969 300SEL 6.3 (109 chassis).
It was interesting to drive, to say the least.
It had an air suspension, and this car was put together by hand long, long before there were any electronic controls to regulate things like that. If you went into a curve at high speed, you'd turn the huge honking steering wheel the direction you'd think was appropriate, then after about ¼ s the air suspension would take its "set," usually forcing you to correct your steering.
Oversteer and at least a mild drift became a way of life if you were in a hurry. Pictures of the car going through a high speed turn, you could usually see that the front wheels were pointed the wrong way.
8 miles per gallon. If you were lucky. :-)
The four speed gearbox usually started off in second just because there was enough torque for that. "P" was at the back of the gate instead of the front. You'd think in those days they'd offer a manual, but the truth was that they didn't have any manual strong enough to handle the power of the 6.3, so the only thing they could shove in there was the 4 speed automatic from the 600 Pullman.
It had no torque converter. 0_o To this day, I'm damned if I know how it worked, but it did. It was not gentle, either. But it worked.
Although the car had been rolled out first in Germany and France and proved completely reliable, they quickly started turning up weird propeller shaft and rear axle problems in the United States.
It turned out that Americans were running right on out to the California drag strips, and they hadn't counted on that. Redesigned parts for the rear end, and heavier duty rubber dampers for the propeller shafts took care of that.
The insides of all of these things, like many antiques, smell just wonderful: An odd but very attractive combination of sun-bleached Bakelite, burned oil, and the most wonderful high quality leather.
So, here's the thing: Your 30,000 price point.
You will find these old things in completely streetable condition at that price point.
As soon as the first thing goes wrong, of course, you're in knee deep in the horse barn.
Mercedes, you see, promised that parts for these cars would always be available, even if they had to figure out how to one-off a particular part for you. Thing is, they never promised those parts would be cheap. :-)
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12-02-2016, 08:24 AM
#173
Is that a new submission for the thread?
Because you didn't state that...
which makes me think that once we say "Okay George, this one makes the cut for the thread" you're gonna be like, GOTCHA MOTHERFUCKERS I WAS TALKING ABOUT MY RLX ALL ALONG!!!!!!!
In all seriousness though, I enjoy all of your posts...I despise when people say someone can or can't post something in a thread. I think that both your submissions were cool.
Because you didn't state that...
which makes me think that once we say "Okay George, this one makes the cut for the thread" you're gonna be like, GOTCHA MOTHERFUCKERS I WAS TALKING ABOUT MY RLX ALL ALONG!!!!!!!
In all seriousness though, I enjoy all of your posts...I despise when people say someone can or can't post something in a thread. I think that both your submissions were cool.
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12-02-2016, 08:44 AM
#176
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My car's still in the registry, wing mirrors and all, but I don't own it now. I hear it ended up in Florida.
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00TL-P3.2 (12-02-2016)
12-02-2016, 02:28 PM
#177
Safety Car
Thread Starter
But yeah I think it was just a fun/interesting thought I had and obviously we have lots of suggestions and some are really more of personal stories/interest in cool cars that don't fit the main theme but may fit in an honorable mention category.
Yeah maybe just expand on the list of "Honorable Mentions" for either new cars suggested by others (Q50 Hybrid, Fusion Sport, etc.) or super popular cars that is not underrated or uncommonly known (S2k, Z06, etc.) or interesting personal stories/experiences with cars that turn out to be more fun/car than meets the eye (RLX SH SH-AWD, 300SEL, etc.)
12-02-2016, 02:59 PM
#178
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Preliminary draft of newly updated and now I will call this "The HP Per Dollar List" with Honorable Mentions.
This will be a work in progress so please add/modify/delete criteria as you see fit
Inclusion Criteria:
-Must be lesser known even among usual car enthusiasts (ie, while we all love and appreciate cars like the Mustang/Camaro, S2k, Z06, M3/M5, Viper...these are well known legends and can be left out as they are on everyone's brain list already). This may be a bit difficult when we debate exactly what is lesser known vs more popular.
-If it is a special edition of a common car...it must be powerful/performance enough to stand out as a desirable car. Not just a badge-engineered car that isn't all that good: (ie, a Malibu SS and the Caliber SRT-4 are no go.....)
-Must be affordable in the sense of equivalent of an average new car price in today's dollars, around $33k or so. Maybe give a leeway of +/- $3k or so. Keep in mind specific very clean/mint/collector/unique examples can obviously fetch far above that but we're talking just average. Average market value to be determined by a reasonable consensus among the people (us AZiners) or using a more standard market value reference range (NADA, Black Book, etc.)
-Should have at least 300hp OR if not, should be unique/fast enough for its time/era/body style that overrides the hp limit. (ie Turbo Regals, Syclone/Typhoon, etc.)
-Modifications or potential mod costs should NOT factor into the price/discussion. Stock cars only.
-You would be proud if you were to own the car in your own garage!
-Honorable Mention List are newer cars that are not super uncommon but still sporty OR is out of the average price range except for currently higher mileage examples (ie the new Ford Fusion Sport, Q50 Hybrid, RLX, CTS-V2, etc.). Also more "standard" cars that are also more sporty-feeling (ie the E60 535i as a M5 cousin) is on this list...but otherwise if its not special edition it's no go.
Adjustments to The List:
Deleted: Z06, M5, E60 5-series, WS6 Trans Am (basically a camaro), SVT Mustang (because its a mustang)
Moved some cars down to the Honorable Mention as they were lower on hp and not as sporty but just special editions thats interesting (SHO, Fusion Sport, the couple of Ford special edition SUVs, Marauder, etc.)
Sedans:
Cadillac STS-V
Cadilalc CTS-V1
Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG
Audi S4 / RS4 / RS6 (B5, B6, B7)
Pontiac G8 GXP
Chrysler 300C SRT-8 / Dodge Charger SRT-8
Jaguar XJR (Vanden Plas Supercharged)
Dodge Neon SRT-4
Coupe/Verts:
BMW Clown Shoe
BMW 850 (i, Ci, CSi)
Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4
Pontiac GTO (04-06)
Jaguar XJS V12
1986-1987 Buick Regal (GN, T-Type, Turbo)
Mercedes-Benz SL 55 AMG
Chrysler Crossfire SRT-6 (SLK32 AMG cousin)
Wagons:
Chevrolet HHR SS (should probably move this down to Honorable Mention....)
Dodge Magnum SRT-8
Volvo V70 R
Saab 9-3 Turbo X SportCombi
Truck/SUV
GMC Syclone / Typhoon
Dodge Ram SRT-10
Chevrolet Trailblazer SS
Grand Cherokee SRT-8
Ford F-150 SVT Lightning
Chevrolet C/K 1500 454SS
Honorable Mention:
CTS-V2 (higher mileage, older model years)
Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG (higher mileage, older model years)
Acura RLX Sport Hybrid SH-AWD
Ford Fusion Sport
Infiniti Q50 Hybrid
Saleen XP8
Ford Explorer SportTrac Adrenaline
1969 300SEL 6.3
Chevrolet Impala SS
Mercury Marauder
Ford Taurus SHO
-Again, this is a team effort so please post with add/change the cars or the criteria as you see reasonable.
This will be a work in progress so please add/modify/delete criteria as you see fit
Inclusion Criteria:
-Must be lesser known even among usual car enthusiasts (ie, while we all love and appreciate cars like the Mustang/Camaro, S2k, Z06, M3/M5, Viper...these are well known legends and can be left out as they are on everyone's brain list already). This may be a bit difficult when we debate exactly what is lesser known vs more popular.
-If it is a special edition of a common car...it must be powerful/performance enough to stand out as a desirable car. Not just a badge-engineered car that isn't all that good: (ie, a Malibu SS and the Caliber SRT-4 are no go.....)
-Must be affordable in the sense of equivalent of an average new car price in today's dollars, around $33k or so. Maybe give a leeway of +/- $3k or so. Keep in mind specific very clean/mint/collector/unique examples can obviously fetch far above that but we're talking just average. Average market value to be determined by a reasonable consensus among the people (us AZiners) or using a more standard market value reference range (NADA, Black Book, etc.)
-Should have at least 300hp OR if not, should be unique/fast enough for its time/era/body style that overrides the hp limit. (ie Turbo Regals, Syclone/Typhoon, etc.)
-Modifications or potential mod costs should NOT factor into the price/discussion. Stock cars only.
-You would be proud if you were to own the car in your own garage!
-Honorable Mention List are newer cars that are not super uncommon but still sporty OR is out of the average price range except for currently higher mileage examples (ie the new Ford Fusion Sport, Q50 Hybrid, RLX, CTS-V2, etc.). Also more "standard" cars that are also more sporty-feeling (ie the E60 535i as a M5 cousin) is on this list...but otherwise if its not special edition it's no go.
Adjustments to The List:
Deleted: Z06, M5, E60 5-series, WS6 Trans Am (basically a camaro), SVT Mustang (because its a mustang)
Moved some cars down to the Honorable Mention as they were lower on hp and not as sporty but just special editions thats interesting (SHO, Fusion Sport, the couple of Ford special edition SUVs, Marauder, etc.)
Sedans:
Cadillac STS-V
Cadilalc CTS-V1
Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG
Audi S4 / RS4 / RS6 (B5, B6, B7)
Pontiac G8 GXP
Chrysler 300C SRT-8 / Dodge Charger SRT-8
Jaguar XJR (Vanden Plas Supercharged)
Dodge Neon SRT-4
Coupe/Verts:
BMW Clown Shoe
BMW 850 (i, Ci, CSi)
Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4
Pontiac GTO (04-06)
Jaguar XJS V12
1986-1987 Buick Regal (GN, T-Type, Turbo)
Mercedes-Benz SL 55 AMG
Chrysler Crossfire SRT-6 (SLK32 AMG cousin)
Wagons:
Chevrolet HHR SS (should probably move this down to Honorable Mention....)
Dodge Magnum SRT-8
Volvo V70 R
Saab 9-3 Turbo X SportCombi
Truck/SUV
GMC Syclone / Typhoon
Dodge Ram SRT-10
Chevrolet Trailblazer SS
Grand Cherokee SRT-8
Ford F-150 SVT Lightning
Chevrolet C/K 1500 454SS
Honorable Mention:
CTS-V2 (higher mileage, older model years)
Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG (higher mileage, older model years)
Acura RLX Sport Hybrid SH-AWD
Ford Fusion Sport
Infiniti Q50 Hybrid
Saleen XP8
Ford Explorer SportTrac Adrenaline
1969 300SEL 6.3
Chevrolet Impala SS
Mercury Marauder
Ford Taurus SHO
-Again, this is a team effort so please post with add/change the cars or the criteria as you see reasonable.
Last edited by nist7; 12-02-2016 at 03:04 PM.
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justnspace (12-03-2016)
12-02-2016, 07:40 PM
#180
-Must be lesser known even among usual car enthusiasts (ie, while we all love and appreciate cars like the Mustang/Camaro, S2k, Z06, M3/M5, Viper...these are well known legends and can be left out as they are on everyone's brain list already). This may be a bit difficult when we debate exactly what is lesser known vs more popular.
-If it is a special edition of a common car...it must be powerful/performance enough to stand out as a desirable car. Not just a badge-engineered car that isn't all that good: (ie, a Malibu SS and the Caliber SRT-4 are no go.....)
-If it is a special edition of a common car...it must be powerful/performance enough to stand out as a desirable car. Not just a badge-engineered car that isn't all that good: (ie, a Malibu SS and the Caliber SRT-4 are no go.....)
To be honest, it appears the thread has changed from most horsepower for $30,000 to the nominating the most underrated/unknown sports cars for under $30,000.
Last edited by Rick_TL-S; 12-02-2016 at 07:44 PM.
12-03-2016, 05:34 PM
#182
Safety Car
Thread Starter
These contradict each other a bit, though. The Z06, M cars, SS/Cobras are basically special editions of a common car that are highly desirable, & not badge-engineered. I don't get how a Ram SRT-10 or SVT Lightning qualifies when the aforementioned sports cars follow the same train of thought in their model ranges; stuff a bigger engine in them & engineer the car for optimal performance. The M5 gets deleted, but the CTS-V remains in multiple categories? What car enthusiast isn't aware of a CTS-V, Audi's RS line, or half those sport trucks?
To be honest, it appears the thread has changed from most horsepower for $30,000 to the nominating the most underrated/unknown sports cars for under $30,000.
To be honest, it appears the thread has changed from most horsepower for $30,000 to the nominating the most underrated/unknown sports cars for under $30,000.
To your other point, the SRT-10 RAM and the SVT Lightning are included because they are lesser known....and like you said the CTS-V / RS cars may not be as lesser-known. But if the trucks are too well-known (very hard to define), they may also be excluded if they are quite popular. Of course all these vehicles are known to enthusiasts when we are made aware of them...but otherwise they are not as off-top-of-head cars/vehicles as say like the Z06 or the S2k. This is where subjectivity comes in, and of course this is a community-effort and I do want to lean more towards lesser-known cars.
I mean I had forgotten about the SRT-10 or the Lightning until someone mentioned them....as is the Syclone/Typhoon which may not be as well known (Doug DeMuro just did a review of the Typhoon though, heh).
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nist7 (12-04-2016)
12-03-2016, 05:47 PM
#184
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Of course it's a fluid list and certain cars may be included that don't meet the HP criteria for other unique reasons (ie the Turbo Regals). And I do want this to be a community effort as well. And of course just because a car is not on "The List" don't make it not good or anything. Just a working project/ideas.
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justnspace (12-04-2016)
12-04-2016, 03:34 AM
#187
Kind of. Fundamentally, they're identical but VAG codes them as 2 different engines; there's 1 extra letter at the end of the engine code for the Lambo. I believe the S8's V10 does not have the stronger crankshaft, forged pistons, dry sump system, & a different intake/exhaust/ECU.
12-04-2016, 09:02 AM
#188
at this thread. An M5 is too generic, but an E55 isn't?Ok.
12-04-2016, 09:51 AM
#189
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12-04-2016, 11:20 AM
#191
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Fair point. E55/63 will be deleted from main list and move to Honorable Mentions.
Added!
Dang, didn't even know this existed! Added.
Adjustments to The List:
-Deleted/moved out of main list(honorable mention): Z06, M5, E60 5-series, WS6 Trans Am, SVT Mustang
-New deletions due to popularity: CTS-V, E55 AMG, S/RS (aside from S8 - due to rarity/underratedness as a post suggested), most SRT cars, most of the sport trucks
-Added: S8 and S-Type R
Newly updated list:
Sedans:
Cadillac STS-V
Pontiac G8 GXP
Jaguar XJR (Vanden Plas Supercharged)
Jaguar S-Type R
Dodge Neon SRT-4
Coupe/Verts:
BMW Clown Shoe
BMW 850 (i, Ci, CSi)
Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4
Pontiac GTO (04-06)
Jaguar XJS V12
1986-1987 Buick Regal (GN, T-Type, Turbo)
Mercedes-Benz SL 55 AMG
Chrysler Crossfire SRT-6 (SLK32 AMG cousin)
Wagons:
Chevrolet HHR SS (should probably move this down to Honorable Mention....)
Dodge Magnum SRT-8 (probably move to Honorable Mention...)
Volvo V70 R
Saab 9-3 Turbo X SportCombi
Truck/SUV
GMC Syclone / Typhoon
Chevrolet Trailblazer SS (lesser known enough to keep on list?)
Honorable Mention:
CTS-V1/V2
Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG (higher mileage, older model years)
Acura RLX Sport Hybrid SH-AWD
Ford Fusion Sport
Infiniti Q50 Hybrid
Saleen XP8
Ford Explorer SportTrac Adrenaline
1969 300SEL 6.3
Chevrolet Impala SS
Mercury Marauder
Ford Taurus SHO
Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG
Audi S4 / RS4 / RS6 (B5, B6, B7)
Most SRT cars (300C, Charger, Viper, Grand Cherokee, Ram, etc.)
Ford F-150 SVT Lightning
Chevrolet C/K 1500 454SS (aside from big motor and SS designation, not much performance it seems...so off list)
-Again, this is a team effort so please post with add/change the cars or the criteria as you see reasonable. Thanks for all the suggestions
Adjustments to The List:
-Deleted/moved out of main list(honorable mention): Z06, M5, E60 5-series, WS6 Trans Am, SVT Mustang
-New deletions due to popularity: CTS-V, E55 AMG, S/RS (aside from S8 - due to rarity/underratedness as a post suggested), most SRT cars, most of the sport trucks
-Added: S8 and S-Type R
Newly updated list:
Sedans:
Cadillac STS-V
Pontiac G8 GXP
Jaguar XJR (Vanden Plas Supercharged)
Jaguar S-Type R
Dodge Neon SRT-4
Coupe/Verts:
BMW Clown Shoe
BMW 850 (i, Ci, CSi)
Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4
Pontiac GTO (04-06)
Jaguar XJS V12
1986-1987 Buick Regal (GN, T-Type, Turbo)
Mercedes-Benz SL 55 AMG
Chrysler Crossfire SRT-6 (SLK32 AMG cousin)
Wagons:
Chevrolet HHR SS (should probably move this down to Honorable Mention....)
Dodge Magnum SRT-8 (probably move to Honorable Mention...)
Volvo V70 R
Saab 9-3 Turbo X SportCombi
Truck/SUV
GMC Syclone / Typhoon
Chevrolet Trailblazer SS (lesser known enough to keep on list?)
Honorable Mention:
CTS-V1/V2
Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG (higher mileage, older model years)
Acura RLX Sport Hybrid SH-AWD
Ford Fusion Sport
Infiniti Q50 Hybrid
Saleen XP8
Ford Explorer SportTrac Adrenaline
1969 300SEL 6.3
Chevrolet Impala SS
Mercury Marauder
Ford Taurus SHO
Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG
Audi S4 / RS4 / RS6 (B5, B6, B7)
Most SRT cars (300C, Charger, Viper, Grand Cherokee, Ram, etc.)
Ford F-150 SVT Lightning
Chevrolet C/K 1500 454SS (aside from big motor and SS designation, not much performance it seems...so off list)
-Again, this is a team effort so please post with add/change the cars or the criteria as you see reasonable. Thanks for all the suggestions
Last edited by nist7; 12-04-2016 at 11:26 AM.
12-04-2016, 11:23 AM
#192
Grandpa
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Virginia, Besieged
Age: 68
Posts: 7,596
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Miserable, awful reliability and owner satisfaction records.
Moreover, Jaguar has changed ownership and engineering philosophy since that model was produced. Because you already know the car is very unreliable, you will want to be sure you have competent repair facilities available to you.
I'm more or less an Anglophile, but I am not a fan of their cars for everyday transportation. If you're going to buy a Jaguar, you might as well get something charming like an S from the 60's, with a manual transmission and LSD.
The rear end is still going to fall out of the car every 50,000 miles or so, but you'll have a grand looking car, even when it won't move. :-)
The folding wooden breadboards in the back seats are also very entertaining.
Moreover, Jaguar has changed ownership and engineering philosophy since that model was produced. Because you already know the car is very unreliable, you will want to be sure you have competent repair facilities available to you.
I'm more or less an Anglophile, but I am not a fan of their cars for everyday transportation. If you're going to buy a Jaguar, you might as well get something charming like an S from the 60's, with a manual transmission and LSD.
The rear end is still going to fall out of the car every 50,000 miles or so, but you'll have a grand looking car, even when it won't move. :-)
The folding wooden breadboards in the back seats are also very entertaining.
12-04-2016, 11:28 AM
#193
Grandpa
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Virginia, Besieged
Age: 68
Posts: 7,596
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1,475 Posts
Now, *this* is a Jaguar. :-)
No less reliable than the 2008 cars. And a hell of a lot more style.
It's basically the same motor as the E Type, so you can massage it on a budget. 140 without even breathing hard.
No less reliable than the 2008 cars. And a hell of a lot more style.
It's basically the same motor as the E Type, so you can massage it on a budget. 140 without even breathing hard.
The following users liked this post:
nist7 (12-04-2016)
12-04-2016, 11:36 AM
#194
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Heh, no worries man. You know this list is not gonna be able to please 100% of the people. Everyone will have their own additions/subtractions. And some car will have someone wanting it to be added/deleted/ But the point is not to make a perfect list but as a more suggestive cars for general car enthusiasm that fits the criteria and also as a reference list for my own and for future potential buyer's when they are looking at affiordable but also awesome and somewhat more rare performance cars.
12-04-2016, 03:40 PM
#195
Safety Car
Miserable, awful reliability and owner satisfaction records.
Moreover, Jaguar has changed ownership and engineering philosophy since that model was produced. Because you already know the car is very unreliable, you will want to be sure you have competent repair facilities available to you.
I'm more or less an Anglophile, but I am not a fan of their cars for everyday transportation. If you're going to buy a Jaguar, you might as well get something charming like an S from the 60's, with a manual transmission and LSD.
The rear end is still going to fall out of the car every 50,000 miles or so, but you'll have a grand looking car, even when it won't move. :-)
The folding wooden breadboards in the back seats are also very entertaining.
Moreover, Jaguar has changed ownership and engineering philosophy since that model was produced. Because you already know the car is very unreliable, you will want to be sure you have competent repair facilities available to you.
I'm more or less an Anglophile, but I am not a fan of their cars for everyday transportation. If you're going to buy a Jaguar, you might as well get something charming like an S from the 60's, with a manual transmission and LSD.
The rear end is still going to fall out of the car every 50,000 miles or so, but you'll have a grand looking car, even when it won't move. :-)
The folding wooden breadboards in the back seats are also very entertaining.
The AJ-V8 used in the S-Type R is essentially the identical engine (without a supercharger) used in the Lincoln LS and Ford Thunderbird of this period, which means parts can be obtained far cheaper than going to the Jaguar dealer. A hand build version was used in the Aston Martin V8 Vantage.
The 6AT transmission was made by ZF.
The chassis was shared by the Lincoln LS, and with slight variations, was still used for the 2004-2014 Ford Mustang.
Interior build quality was sub-par for the class so that's something to consider. Also the exterior design was bland. But this was a high point for Jaguar's reliability. Since then, they have gone back down under Tata's ownership although their styling has gone way up.
Check out the consumer reviews for the 2003 (first year model): https://www.edmunds.com/jaguar/s-typ...r-reviews.html
The following 2 users liked this post by wackjum:
George Knighton (12-04-2016),
juniorbean (12-05-2016)
12-05-2016, 09:39 AM
#196
CTSV,TL, Audi Q7 & A5SB
What about a 2006 or 2007 Caddy XLR-V? Granted some may be slightly higher than $30K, but it has 443HP stock, this was a $100K car back in 2008/09.. Something along these lines..
https://www.truecar.com/used-cars-fo...c-xlr-v/37772/
https://www.truecar.com/used-cars-fo...c-xlr-v/37772/
Last edited by JT4; 12-05-2016 at 09:42 AM.
12-05-2016, 07:04 PM
#197
Always thought the XLR was a flop. Wasn't any better than a Corvette besides more luxurious & was outclassed in its price bracket by BMW. A M6 at the time was around the price as V & basically out performed it. Part of the issue was Cadillac still in that transition era of creating interesting cars without having the brand image to push a 6-figure car out the showroom.
12-06-2016, 07:29 AM
#198
CTSV,TL, Audi Q7 & A5SB
I agree, interesting cars with a nice design but Caddy had their heads in the clouds if they though the BMW or MB SL owner was going to cross shop an XLR, maybe a few but not many. And yes it was priced too high and sadly Cadillac is doing it again today, they're pricing themselves out of the market again.. Anyway that's a discussion for another thread..
However for the purposes of this the thread I think the XLR-V may be a good choice to include on the list..
However for the purposes of this the thread I think the XLR-V may be a good choice to include on the list..
12-06-2016, 01:43 PM
#199
Safety Car
Thread Starter
I agree, interesting cars with a nice design but Caddy had their heads in the clouds if they though the BMW or MB SL owner was going to cross shop an XLR, maybe a few but not many. And yes it was priced too high and sadly Cadillac is doing it again today, they're pricing themselves out of the market again.. Anyway that's a discussion for another thread..
However for the purposes of this the thread I think the XLR-V may be a good choice to include on the list..
However for the purposes of this the thread I think the XLR-V may be a good choice to include on the list..
12-06-2016, 02:21 PM
#200
Safety Car
I enjoy getting oddball stuff, which aren't necessarily performance cars but are unique. If you're willing to push the boundaries a little, two oddball cars I have considered picking up:
Qvale Mangusta - Italian roadster with a 2000s era Ford SVT Cobra engine and drivetrain. The history of the car is pretty interesting. Service is straight forward as a lot of things are from Ford. Issues include it being incredibly ugly, and the body panels are going to be impossible to replace. I was about to pick one up but in the end I could not convince my wife that it was good looking enough and that it would fit into my lineup. It has a removable T-Top and then the Targa portion can rotate downward to become a true convertible. They are priced around $25,000 - $28,000 and they've held this price for the last 5 years at least. It would be the most affordable "exotic" I can imagine.
Fisker Karma - I've played with the idea of getting one. This was originally a $500,000+ car, but are now in the $40s and seem to be holding steady after Fisker folded. There's some speculation in buying one of these right now because they could go back up in value soon. The design has been purchased by a Chinese company and if it comes back on the market, I expect these cars to go back to $70s or so.
There's plenty of info out there on the Fisker Karma. It is all electric and has a really cool hovercraft sound. I sat in one and thought about buying it but one of the key aspects to me being able to keep the many cars I have is because I perform the maintenance and repairs myself, and I'm wary about my ability to do work on an all-electric.
Qvale Mangusta - Italian roadster with a 2000s era Ford SVT Cobra engine and drivetrain. The history of the car is pretty interesting. Service is straight forward as a lot of things are from Ford. Issues include it being incredibly ugly, and the body panels are going to be impossible to replace. I was about to pick one up but in the end I could not convince my wife that it was good looking enough and that it would fit into my lineup. It has a removable T-Top and then the Targa portion can rotate downward to become a true convertible. They are priced around $25,000 - $28,000 and they've held this price for the last 5 years at least. It would be the most affordable "exotic" I can imagine.
Fisker Karma - I've played with the idea of getting one. This was originally a $500,000+ car, but are now in the $40s and seem to be holding steady after Fisker folded. There's some speculation in buying one of these right now because they could go back up in value soon. The design has been purchased by a Chinese company and if it comes back on the market, I expect these cars to go back to $70s or so.
There's plenty of info out there on the Fisker Karma. It is all electric and has a really cool hovercraft sound. I sat in one and thought about buying it but one of the key aspects to me being able to keep the many cars I have is because I perform the maintenance and repairs myself, and I'm wary about my ability to do work on an all-electric.
The following users liked this post:
nist7 (12-06-2016)