330i vs TL vs G35 4 Dr
07-26-2004, 01:21 PM
#41
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Just to add my 2 cents.
RWD vs. FWD vs. AWD makes no difference to me in 99.9% of my driving. If I was planning on taking it to the track, I would want RWD. If I were driving up a snowy slope with all-season tires, I would want AWD. Everyday driving, any will do just fine. I suspect that most of the people buying TLs, BMWs, and G35s would agree. I find that only when I push the TL to it's rather high limits do I see an issue with its FWD layout; and that doesn't happen often in everyday street driving.
As for fun, I had a Honda Prelude that was by far the funnest car that I have driven (a Miata I drove once comes in second). The Prelude is FWD. Also, the best handling car overall that I've ever driven. I've driven many BMWs (although no Ms), and still prefer the feel/handling of the Prelude.
As for FWD vs. RWD in the snow, with the right tires, this also makes no difference. My wife has an IS300 with Blizzaks that is absolutely rock solid in even deep, unplowed snow. I found the TL to be aweful in the snow this past winter with the EL42s- I'll be putting snow tires on it next winter.
BWMs, TLs, G35s are all great cars and it really comes down to preference and what is important to you.
RWD vs. FWD vs. AWD makes no difference to me in 99.9% of my driving. If I was planning on taking it to the track, I would want RWD. If I were driving up a snowy slope with all-season tires, I would want AWD. Everyday driving, any will do just fine. I suspect that most of the people buying TLs, BMWs, and G35s would agree. I find that only when I push the TL to it's rather high limits do I see an issue with its FWD layout; and that doesn't happen often in everyday street driving.
As for fun, I had a Honda Prelude that was by far the funnest car that I have driven (a Miata I drove once comes in second). The Prelude is FWD. Also, the best handling car overall that I've ever driven. I've driven many BMWs (although no Ms), and still prefer the feel/handling of the Prelude.
As for FWD vs. RWD in the snow, with the right tires, this also makes no difference. My wife has an IS300 with Blizzaks that is absolutely rock solid in even deep, unplowed snow. I found the TL to be aweful in the snow this past winter with the EL42s- I'll be putting snow tires on it next winter.
BWMs, TLs, G35s are all great cars and it really comes down to preference and what is important to you.
07-26-2004, 03:03 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by TL_6SPD
You guys should be related to the CLUBSI forums. You all act like kids. I am glad I own the G35, because it is a great car, and the people on the forums are much more mature than this group it seems.
07-26-2004, 03:55 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by DopeTL04
TL OWNES THIS THREAD!! :fingerfawk:
Nice observation, though
07-26-2004, 04:07 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by jjsC5
Of course it does, Dope. This is the TL forum. And somehow, I'll bet the G35 "owns" the threads on the Fresh Alloy forum, and the BMW "owns" the treads on the BMW forum.
Nice observation, though
Nice observation, though
Well if you saw the heading of this thread, it says "330i vs TL vs G35 4 Dr ". All im saying is the TL ownes this thread, so in this case it ownes the G35 and 330i. Please be more observant before making stupid remarks to peoples posts
....thank you
07-26-2004, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by DopeTL04
Well if you saw the heading of this thread, it says "330i vs TL vs G35 4 Dr ". All im saying is the TL ownes this thread, so in this case it ownes the G35 and 330i. Please be more observant before making stupid remarks to peoples posts ....thank you
....thank youOkay, explain to me why you think the TL owns the G35?
07-26-2004, 04:22 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by DopeTL04
Well if you saw the heading of this thread, it says "330i vs TL vs G35 4 Dr ". All im saying is the TL ownes this thread, so in this case it ownes the G35 and 330i. Please be more observant before making stupid remarks to peoples posts ....thank you
....thank you
07-26-2004, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by TL_6SPD
Keep dreaming.
Yea, owning and driving a 04 TL is kinda like a dream
...Great observation! Wait, arent you the one that owns a G35 Sedan? Must be more like a nightmare for you...dont worry your car isnt disgusting...ITS JUST UGLY!! :shit:
07-26-2004, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by TL_6SPD
You guys should be related to the CLUBSI forums. You all act like kids. I am glad I own the G35, because it is a great car, and the people on the forums are much more mature than this group it seems.
Originally Posted by shodog
I second the motion here.
Whatever 'rocks your boat' (a Hues Corporation reference for you mature fellas 
).
07-26-2004, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Aegir
Ah, so you're both here slumming in the immature TL forum to recapture the silly golden years of your youth? Whatever 'rocks your boat' (a Hues Corporation reference for you mature fellas ).
Whatever 'rocks your boat' (a Hues Corporation reference for you mature fellas ).
07-26-2004, 04:51 PM
#50
Moderator Alumnus
Hey, when will you guys stop bashing to each other by these meaningless attacks?
If ppl try to use their own subjective judgement to criticize "mature or immature", this gives me a good reason to shut it down.
When can we get back to "330i vs TL vs G35 4 Dr" again?
If ppl try to use their own subjective judgement to criticize "mature or immature", this gives me a good reason to shut it down.
When can we get back to "330i vs TL vs G35 4 Dr" again?
07-26-2004, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by rets
When can we get back to "330i vs TL vs G35 4 Dr" again?
Once again the G35 beat the TL in a comparison test http://motortrend.com/roadtests/sed...dans/index.html
The g35 beats the TL in so many ways
It has better acceleration-.1 equals 6.8 feet ahead at 60
better skid pad (.87) even with it's skinny ass 215 tires- this is because the chassis has better balance. With wider tires the G35 would absolutley trounce the (.80) skid pad of the TL.
better turning radius-36' compared to the 39.7 of the TL means you don't have to make three point turns everytime you make a u turn
no torque steer-Means you actually can go down the road in a straight line and you don't have to fight the car coming out of a corner on the throttle.
better brakes- this is the difference between rear ending the fool in front of you. 17 more feet from 60 and 42 more feet from a hundred tells me that the brakes in the TL are inferior.
The G35 also has a Bigger trunk.
07-26-2004, 05:57 PM
#52
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by DopeTL04
Well if you saw the heading of this thread, it says "330i vs TL vs G35 4 Dr ". All im saying is the TL ownes this thread, so in this case it ownes the G35 and 330i. Please be more observant before making stupid remarks to peoples posts ....thank you
....thank you
07-26-2004, 06:08 PM
#53
Registered Member
This thread went in the toilet on the first page.
It's clear there are some people with some VERY strong opinions and I am one. But I know that they are MY opinions. Some are based upon absolute fact, but a good deal of them are totally subjective.
Common people, lighten up. The first day I entered this site with my first postings, I got crapped on. I can tell you it left a rather sour taste in my mouth since being a Southerner, I was not brought up that way. Respect is in limited supply at times and needs to be spread around a little more. I thought this forum's purpose was for the exchange of productive ideas and information (of which I have managed to gain a bit), not to bash people because they happen to have a different perspective.
Do you know how this looks to a new visitor to this site?
It's clear there are some people with some VERY strong opinions and I am one. But I know that they are MY opinions. Some are based upon absolute fact, but a good deal of them are totally subjective.
Common people, lighten up. The first day I entered this site with my first postings, I got crapped on. I can tell you it left a rather sour taste in my mouth since being a Southerner, I was not brought up that way. Respect is in limited supply at times and needs to be spread around a little more. I thought this forum's purpose was for the exchange of productive ideas and information (of which I have managed to gain a bit), not to bash people because they happen to have a different perspective.
Do you know how this looks to a new visitor to this site?
07-26-2004, 06:21 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by shodog
I would like to hear the reasons why you guys say the TL is so much better than the G35 and the 330i.
Once again the G35 beat the TL in a comparison test http://motortrend.com/roadtests/sed...dans/index.html
The g35 beats the TL in so many ways
It has better acceleration-.1 equals 6.8 feet ahead at 60
better skid pad (.87) even with it's skinny ass 215 tires- this is because the chassis has better balance. With wider tires the G35 would absolutley trounce the (.80) skid pad of the TL.
better turning radius-36' compared to the 39.7 of the TL means you don't have to make three point turns everytime you make a u turn
no torque steer-Means you actually can go down the road in a straight line and you don't have to fight the car coming out of a corner on the throttle.
better brakes- this is the difference between rear ending the fool in front of you. 17 more feet from 60 and 42 more feet from a hundred tells me that the brakes in the TL are inferior.
The G35 also has a Bigger trunk.
Once again the G35 beat the TL in a comparison test http://motortrend.com/roadtests/sed...dans/index.html
The g35 beats the TL in so many ways
It has better acceleration-.1 equals 6.8 feet ahead at 60
better skid pad (.87) even with it's skinny ass 215 tires- this is because the chassis has better balance. With wider tires the G35 would absolutley trounce the (.80) skid pad of the TL.
better turning radius-36' compared to the 39.7 of the TL means you don't have to make three point turns everytime you make a u turn
no torque steer-Means you actually can go down the road in a straight line and you don't have to fight the car coming out of a corner on the throttle.
better brakes- this is the difference between rear ending the fool in front of you. 17 more feet from 60 and 42 more feet from a hundred tells me that the brakes in the TL are inferior.
The G35 also has a Bigger trunk.
It is more feature-laden and more luxurious.
If we wanted a performance Sedan, we'd have purchased 330's. If we wanted a tad more luxury to go with the horsepower, we'd have purchased G35's. We didn't. We wanted luxury and lots of it. That was the primary motivator. To us, skidpads don't mean anything. Turning radius? Accelleration? We're 40 year old dad's with mortgages, kids in camp, and subscriptions to porn sites that our wives don't know about. What use is a skidpad? Torque steer? It's called a feature, not a detriment. Again, FWD is much safer in some climates....I couldn't drive my kids to school comfortably or get up my driveway without it in January.
Apparently, G35 owners view themselves as the graduates of the 1998 School of Accord and Civic Lowering and Ricing. It's six years later, you've got some bucks, so you buy a spanking new car designed for a dad but you think it's for Gen Y to compete with the next generation of the nitrous crowd. Pretty funny. Or is it sad? Either way, it's inaccurate.
So, to sum up the answer to your question in one sentence:
For those interested primarily in luxury and features, the Acura TL is the best car in its class.
BJ
07-26-2004, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjames
The G35 Sedan is a piece of junk.
Take a Nissan Z Coupe and add some luxury? You get the G35 Coupe. Beautiful car.
Take a Nissan Z Coupe and add some luxury while s-t-r-e-t-c-h-i-n-g it to bloated proportions so that you can add two more doors and a whole lot of weight? You get a piece of junk.
The BMW 3 is over-rated. Sure, it's a BMW. But there are more of them on the road than Camry's these days, and you can get a stripper for under $30 or a loaded one for almost $50. Too confusing despite its excellent road manners.
Whew. Glad this thread didn't close before I had a chance to offer up an opinion.
BJ
Take a Nissan Z Coupe and add some luxury? You get the G35 Coupe. Beautiful car.
Take a Nissan Z Coupe and add some luxury while s-t-r-e-t-c-h-i-n-g it to bloated proportions so that you can add two more doors and a whole lot of weight? You get a piece of junk.
The BMW 3 is over-rated. Sure, it's a BMW. But there are more of them on the road than Camry's these days, and you can get a stripper for under $30 or a loaded one for almost $50. Too confusing despite its excellent road manners.
Whew. Glad this thread didn't close before I had a chance to offer up an opinion.
BJ
Be careful on the G35 weight issue, as the the G35 sedan weighs less than the G35 coupe by 100 pounds or more. Just check out the manufacture's web site. Also, if you're going to bash our competition, make sure you spell it correctly so it will look like you actually know what you're talking about. That's INFINITI with an "I." Come on man, help out the Acura team so the I-Guys don't think you're completely uneducated AND rude...
Q
07-26-2004, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by shodog
I would like to hear the reasons why you guys say the TL is so much better than the G35 and the 330i.
Once again the G35 beat the TL in a comparison test http://motortrend.com/roadtests/sed...dans/index.html
The g35 beats the TL in so many ways
It has better acceleration-.1 equals 6.8 feet ahead at 60
better skid pad (.87) even with it's skinny ass 215 tires- this is because the chassis has better balance. With wider tires the G35 would absolutley trounce the (.80) skid pad of the TL.
better turning radius-36' compared to the 39.7 of the TL means you don't have to make three point turns everytime you make a u turn
no torque steer-Means you actually can go down the road in a straight line and you don't have to fight the car coming out of a corner on the throttle.
better brakes- this is the difference between rear ending the fool in front of you. 17 more feet from 60 and 42 more feet from a hundred tells me that the brakes in the TL are inferior.
The G35 also has a Bigger trunk.
Once again the G35 beat the TL in a comparison test http://motortrend.com/roadtests/sed...dans/index.html
The g35 beats the TL in so many ways
It has better acceleration-.1 equals 6.8 feet ahead at 60
better skid pad (.87) even with it's skinny ass 215 tires- this is because the chassis has better balance. With wider tires the G35 would absolutley trounce the (.80) skid pad of the TL.
better turning radius-36' compared to the 39.7 of the TL means you don't have to make three point turns everytime you make a u turn
no torque steer-Means you actually can go down the road in a straight line and you don't have to fight the car coming out of a corner on the throttle.
better brakes- this is the difference between rear ending the fool in front of you. 17 more feet from 60 and 42 more feet from a hundred tells me that the brakes in the TL are inferior.
The G35 also has a Bigger trunk.
"We just have to open the pages of another magazine, Road & Track, and the numbers favor the TL over the G35 sedan except for lower speeds (under 90) where the G35 is a tiny split-second quicker. Beyond that, the TL which is geared a little higher, passes the G35 and gets better gas mileage.
The cars are so close that different magazine testers get slightly different results. Take your pick; whatever supports your preconceived notions and justifies your purchase.
The cars are very close except that the G35 has a bigger engine and RWD. To a lot of people, RWD is a very important factor. Those folks probably went with the G35.
XP"
07-26-2004, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by DopeTL04
Yea, owning and driving a 04 TL is kinda like a dream ...Great observation! Wait, arent you the one that owns a G35 Sedan? Must be more like a nightmare for you...dont worry your car isnt disgusting...ITS JUST UGLY!! :shit:
...Great observation! Wait, arent you the one that owns a G35 Sedan? Must be more like a nightmare for you...dont worry your car isnt disgusting...ITS JUST UGLY!! :shit:I love my Acura, but here's what the guys at Motor Trend said about the G35's appearance...
"Unlike the more heavy-handed surface excitement and fussy detailing of the Z-Car, the G35's design is handsome, masculine, and tasteful. Call it an Armani suit wearing Reeboks." I don't think that's a definition of ugly, why do you?
Lay off the G35 crowd -- you're giving us TL owners a bad name...
Q
07-26-2004, 07:34 PM
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I just purchased my G35x the other day. I'll be taking delivery this Thursday. My older brother (47, for reference) just bought a TL and he almost had me convinced to buy one as well. He lives in Texas (I'm in NY) so I haven't seen his car yet. I must admit the TL is a beautiful car and very luxurious inside. It seems nearly perfect ergonomically. I love the tilting side-view mirrors.
I test drove a TL in Manhattan and I was impressed with the acceleration and ride but I didn't like the fact that I couldn't see the end of the hood. Space is tight here in NY and when you are jostling with Taxi's you need to be able to know exactly where you're nose is. Also, there was a shimmy in the (bus sized) steering wheel that I wasn't pleased with (car had about 1600 mi. on it). Maybe it was the Bridgestones? There were 3 TL's in the showroom and the leather looked worn on all of them. When closing the door with the window down, I could hear the window rattling around inside the door like my old Camaro. Frankly, I was concerned about the Ohio build quality. It's just a peeve of mine, I like my American cars built in USA and my Japanese cars built in Japan. Finally, I had a deal on a TL (anthracite/camel, beauty combo) at a dealer in the suburbs ($30195) and when I was ready to come in he sold my car "this morning." Hmmm.
In the end, I paid a little more but I got AWD, a design that's been around for a few years, real wood inside, and built in Japan. I got in the G and it just felt right. All of this is subjective and opinion. As long as we're all happy, who cares, really? I'm sure the G35 has a few of shortcomings that I'll find out about soon enough.
I'll still be checking in here now and then, enjoy the rest of the summer everyone. I'm heading down to Dallas next month where I'll give my bro's TL a good workout.
I test drove a TL in Manhattan and I was impressed with the acceleration and ride but I didn't like the fact that I couldn't see the end of the hood. Space is tight here in NY and when you are jostling with Taxi's you need to be able to know exactly where you're nose is. Also, there was a shimmy in the (bus sized) steering wheel that I wasn't pleased with (car had about 1600 mi. on it). Maybe it was the Bridgestones? There were 3 TL's in the showroom and the leather looked worn on all of them. When closing the door with the window down, I could hear the window rattling around inside the door like my old Camaro. Frankly, I was concerned about the Ohio build quality. It's just a peeve of mine, I like my American cars built in USA and my Japanese cars built in Japan. Finally, I had a deal on a TL (anthracite/camel, beauty combo) at a dealer in the suburbs ($30195) and when I was ready to come in he sold my car "this morning." Hmmm.
In the end, I paid a little more but I got AWD, a design that's been around for a few years, real wood inside, and built in Japan. I got in the G and it just felt right. All of this is subjective and opinion. As long as we're all happy, who cares, really? I'm sure the G35 has a few of shortcomings that I'll find out about soon enough.
I'll still be checking in here now and then, enjoy the rest of the summer everyone. I'm heading down to Dallas next month where I'll give my bro's TL a good workout.
07-26-2004, 07:45 PM
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carcar is on a distinguished road
Hi guys.....
Here's the drillio.......I'm a teenager and I'm simply obsessed with cars; have been since i was three.
We have a Honda Odyssey and a Plymouth Breeze. The funny thing is that these cars do not represent my family at all!!!!! We should really have some sort of SUV because we tow A LOT, and my mom likes 4WD...and my dad should have a nicer sedan becasue he can afford and deserve one. But he insists on value and keeping your cars for 7 years because of depreciation yahdah yahdah yahdah. My sister is getting her license soon and will recieve the beater (the Breeze) although it is in good condition.
So that leaves my fasha needing a car, around February of 05. Can' wait. Of course I've been on this for the past six months researching everything about this next purchase. I've come to this conclusion thus far:
Initially, since we....well they....love the minivan, which is Honda of course, Accord came to mind. We went to the dealer....twice, and looked at LX, EX, and EX-V6 Navi models. Dad liked the EX-V6 Nav the best so at least that's good. Then I thought about it and i said, you know what.....everyone has an Accord and it's so bland and the leather feels cheap and the rear-end is approaching the Bangle-But in ugliness.....It just so happens that my aunt and uncle just purchased a gorgeous blue 2004 Lexus ES330, so we went to the dealer and checked that one out.
Liked it a lot, and EVEN THOUGH my dad can afford it, he just cannot SEE spending more than $31k on a car...he sees them as fun toys, yes....but mainly as just transportation. I KNOW that he likes fast cars and exciting styling and neat high-tech features..but the value seems to be his only barrier. Okay....we need to re-group. Let's go for a 1 year old CPO or a demo. Seems perfect.
THE TL INSTANTLY SEEMED PERFECT the first time we saw it. Sweet high-tech features, sporty styling, potent power, it has THE WORKS!!!! The only problem is is that its $35k for a NAV. Some people get them for 1400 off MSRP and stuff, but that 's still too much. Here's my daring plan: Wait til February of 05 and buy a demo leftover 04.....Now this is where you come in. Do you think an 04 TL can be had for less than $30k in 05? a Demo or CPO w/ less than 4k miles?!?!?!? One other problem......our nearest Acura delaer is and hour and 45 minutes away......and the nearest Honda dealer is 38 minutes away. Of course picking up the TL at the Acura dealer and having major major service done there is okay...if kept occasional. But for regular maintenance, I was wondering if most Honda dealer's service Acura under warranty with parts....?
I would love nothing more in the world just to be driven to school in a cool car.....not have to be attached to the piece of crap that he drives now, and just have a nice set of wheels. The Acura is perfect for my fam and I know it. Please resond with all thoughts. Thank you in advance for respecting me even though I'm 14....I hate being looked over and labelled non-credible just because of my height and age....all's i want is an equal playing field on this site. Thank you again!!
Car
Hi guys.....
Here's the drillio.......I'm a teenager and I'm simply obsessed with cars; have been since i was three.
We have a Honda Odyssey and a Plymouth Breeze. The funny thing is that these cars do not represent my family at all!!!!! We should really have some sort of SUV because we tow A LOT, and my mom likes 4WD...and my dad should have a nicer sedan becasue he can afford and deserve one. But he insists on value and keeping your cars for 7 years because of depreciation yahdah yahdah yahdah. My sister is getting her license soon and will recieve the beater (the Breeze) although it is in good condition.
So that leaves my fasha needing a car, around February of 05. Can' wait. Of course I've been on this for the past six months researching everything about this next purchase. I've come to this conclusion thus far:
Initially, since we....well they....love the minivan, which is Honda of course, Accord came to mind. We went to the dealer....twice, and looked at LX, EX, and EX-V6 Navi models. Dad liked the EX-V6 Nav the best so at least that's good. Then I thought about it and i said, you know what.....everyone has an Accord and it's so bland and the leather feels cheap and the rear-end is approaching the Bangle-But in ugliness.....It just so happens that my aunt and uncle just purchased a gorgeous blue 2004 Lexus ES330, so we went to the dealer and checked that one out.
Liked it a lot, and EVEN THOUGH my dad can afford it, he just cannot SEE spending more than $31k on a car...he sees them as fun toys, yes....but mainly as just transportation. I KNOW that he likes fast cars and exciting styling and neat high-tech features..but the value seems to be his only barrier. Okay....we need to re-group. Let's go for a 1 year old CPO or a demo. Seems perfect.
THE TL INSTANTLY SEEMED PERFECT the first time we saw it. Sweet high-tech features, sporty styling, potent power, it has THE WORKS!!!! The only problem is is that its $35k for a NAV. Some people get them for 1400 off MSRP and stuff, but that 's still too much. Here's my daring plan: Wait til February of 05 and buy a demo leftover 04.....Now this is where you come in. Do you think an 04 TL can be had for less than $30k in 05? a Demo or CPO w/ less than 4k miles?!?!?!? One other problem......our nearest Acura delaer is and hour and 45 minutes away......and the nearest Honda dealer is 38 minutes away. Of course picking up the TL at the Acura dealer and having major major service done there is okay...if kept occasional. But for regular maintenance, I was wondering if most Honda dealer's service Acura under warranty with parts....?
I would love nothing more in the world just to be driven to school in a cool car.....not have to be attached to the piece of crap that he drives now, and just have a nice set of wheels. The Acura is perfect for my fam and I know it. Please resond with all thoughts. Thank you in advance for respecting me even though I'm 14....I hate being looked over and labelled non-credible just because of my height and age....all's i want is an equal playing field on this site. Thank you again!!
Car
07-26-2004, 08:20 PM
#60
Registered Member
Hey there carcar.. we were all 14 once and I had a good year at that age.
Your thinking would make sense assuming there were some '04's left on the lots in early '05. And the way this car has been moving, that could be a stretch. Maybe a low mileage used one that someone, God knows why, traded for an '05 might be a possibility.
It may be out there, but try to convince your dad to just give the '04 TL a test drive. That seems to do the trick.
And enjoy your teenage years.. I did, I can tell you.
Your thinking would make sense assuming there were some '04's left on the lots in early '05. And the way this car has been moving, that could be a stretch. Maybe a low mileage used one that someone, God knows why, traded for an '05 might be a possibility.
It may be out there, but try to convince your dad to just give the '04 TL a test drive. That seems to do the trick.
And enjoy your teenage years.. I did, I can tell you.
07-26-2004, 08:27 PM
#61
I am still checking this out, but I think we may have to take carcar with a grain of sand. In his posting here, and in another thread with the identical posting, he states that he is 14, but his profile says he is 28, with a birthdate of April 15, 1976. And in yet another thread, he states that he has a teenage daughter.
If carcar could clarify this, I would be very appreciative, and if I have misread anything, I will stand corrected.
If carcar could clarify this, I would be very appreciative, and if I have misread anything, I will stand corrected.
07-26-2004, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron A
I am still checking this out, but I think we may have to take carcar with a grain of sand. In his posting here, and in another thread with the identical posting, he states that he is 14, but his profile says he is 28, with a birthdate of April 15, 1976. And in yet another thread, he states that he has a teenage daughter.
If carcar could clarify this, I would be very appreciative, and if I have misread anything, I will stand corrected.
If carcar could clarify this, I would be very appreciative, and if I have misread anything, I will stand corrected.
07-26-2004, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjames
The G35 Sedan is a piece of junk.
Take a Nissan Z Coupe and add some luxury? You get the G35 Coupe. Beautiful car.
Take a Nissan Z Coupe and add some luxury while s-t-r-e-t-c-h-i-n-g it to bloated proportions so that you can add two more doors and a whole lot of weight? You get a piece of junk.
The BMW 3 is over-rated. Sure, it's a BMW. But there are more of them on the road than Camry's these days, and you can get a stripper for under $30 or a loaded one for almost $50. Too confusing despite its excellent road manners.
Whew. Glad this thread didn't close before I had a chance to offer up an opinion.
BJ
Take a Nissan Z Coupe and add some luxury? You get the G35 Coupe. Beautiful car.
Take a Nissan Z Coupe and add some luxury while s-t-r-e-t-c-h-i-n-g it to bloated proportions so that you can add two more doors and a whole lot of weight? You get a piece of junk.
The BMW 3 is over-rated. Sure, it's a BMW. But there are more of them on the road than Camry's these days, and you can get a stripper for under $30 or a loaded one for almost $50. Too confusing despite its excellent road manners.
Whew. Glad this thread didn't close before I had a chance to offer up an opinion.
BJ
07-26-2004, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjames
If I cared about status, I'd have gotten the BMW hands down.
If I cared about 0-60 times and twisties, I'd have gotten the G35 hands down. Well, no. I wouldn't touch that piece of junk if it were free....would have gotten the BMW there too.
But since I care about luxury first, tech features second, dependability third, and Andretti fourth, it was TL all the way. Just couldn't see driving a $55,000 BMW 5 to get all the TL offers at $34,000.
BJ
If I cared about 0-60 times and twisties, I'd have gotten the G35 hands down. Well, no. I wouldn't touch that piece of junk if it were free....would have gotten the BMW there too.
But since I care about luxury first, tech features second, dependability third, and Andretti fourth, it was TL all the way. Just couldn't see driving a $55,000 BMW 5 to get all the TL offers at $34,000.
BJ
07-26-2004, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjames
I do not doubt the structural integrity of the car. I'm sure it drives well, I'm sure its durable, I'm sure its fast, and I'm sure its fun to drive.
The G35 sedan has three primary issues: 1. Interior is junk. 2. Exterior is junk. 3. Brand is junk
The interior, as well documented, is more suited to a Ford Focus (with apologies to the Focus) than a luxury sedan. Plastic? Analog clock? That round 'tube' looking thing? The squared aluminum boxy thing? Orange gauges? It's cheap and badly designed.
The exterior, as not often documented, is Frankencar. The Nissan Z is a groundbreaking automobile. Great design. Takes your breath away when you see it for the first time. Add some luxury and you can create the G35 Coupe which is an equally handsome car (excepting the fugly Asian Temple Tail Lamp Pagoda's). But, but but....you can't just carve some clay, plop some doors, add a few grand to the price, and claim you've created a sports sedan that's worthy of comparo's with the 3 Series. Not when you start with a Frankencar as the base from which to build. The thing's a Coupe being puffed into a Sedan. It always works the other way around. Design it as a Sedan first, slim it down sexily as a Coupe. Watch what Acura does with the TL into the CL in the near future.
The brand? Does Infinity even exist any more? You can bash Acura (and rightly so) for losing out to Lexus on the luxury brand index. They stepped up quality and design and status over the past decade to the shame of the Japanese auto makers in the US. But Infinity? That's the one Japanese company Acura still managed to tower over! Now that Acura's back with some exciting and fresh designs, there's even more distance between Acura and Infinity and less distance (finally) between Acura and Lexus. Picking an Infinity is like settling for a Kia when you could have had a Honda.
Again, the thing may handle like a champ, but what's the point when it's cloaked in an ugly coat under a label that no one thinks is in business anymore?
BJ
The G35 sedan has three primary issues: 1. Interior is junk. 2. Exterior is junk. 3. Brand is junk
The interior, as well documented, is more suited to a Ford Focus (with apologies to the Focus) than a luxury sedan. Plastic? Analog clock? That round 'tube' looking thing? The squared aluminum boxy thing? Orange gauges? It's cheap and badly designed.
The exterior, as not often documented, is Frankencar. The Nissan Z is a groundbreaking automobile. Great design. Takes your breath away when you see it for the first time. Add some luxury and you can create the G35 Coupe which is an equally handsome car (excepting the fugly Asian Temple Tail Lamp Pagoda's). But, but but....you can't just carve some clay, plop some doors, add a few grand to the price, and claim you've created a sports sedan that's worthy of comparo's with the 3 Series. Not when you start with a Frankencar as the base from which to build. The thing's a Coupe being puffed into a Sedan. It always works the other way around. Design it as a Sedan first, slim it down sexily as a Coupe. Watch what Acura does with the TL into the CL in the near future.
The brand? Does Infinity even exist any more? You can bash Acura (and rightly so) for losing out to Lexus on the luxury brand index. They stepped up quality and design and status over the past decade to the shame of the Japanese auto makers in the US. But Infinity? That's the one Japanese company Acura still managed to tower over! Now that Acura's back with some exciting and fresh designs, there's even more distance between Acura and Infinity and less distance (finally) between Acura and Lexus. Picking an Infinity is like settling for a Kia when you could have had a Honda.
Again, the thing may handle like a champ, but what's the point when it's cloaked in an ugly coat under a label that no one thinks is in business anymore?
BJ
Exterior is subjective.
Brand, Acura offers no V-8 like Infiniti and no RWD sedans. Infiniti will be sold in Europe in 2007. Acura is a good brand.
And your last sentence is ignorant. Simply ignorant.
07-26-2004, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjames
I disagree with that.
Picking a BMW 3 over a TL is simply saying "well, I can't afford the 5 but I can afford the 3 so I'm going to pick status over value, features, reliability, and common sense and get a smaller and less powerful car in the process".
Picking a G35 Sedan over a TL is simply saying "I really wish it made sense to get that sweet G35 Coupe but with the family I can't so I'll get the next best thing and buy that Frankencar Sedan instead as all my friends will really think I'm driving the Coupe except it just has four doors".
Just about the only car I truly believe is a worthy 'other choice' to the TL is the Accord V6. You keep most of the features and functions and value and lose another $7 large off the sticker price for losing the badge. The Bimmer and the Frankensedan are really just excuses for other cars you wish you could own instead. No need to compromise at $35k.
The TL is the only car in its class that isn't a compromise if you think about it.
BJ
Picking a BMW 3 over a TL is simply saying "well, I can't afford the 5 but I can afford the 3 so I'm going to pick status over value, features, reliability, and common sense and get a smaller and less powerful car in the process".
Picking a G35 Sedan over a TL is simply saying "I really wish it made sense to get that sweet G35 Coupe but with the family I can't so I'll get the next best thing and buy that Frankencar Sedan instead as all my friends will really think I'm driving the Coupe except it just has four doors".
Just about the only car I truly believe is a worthy 'other choice' to the TL is the Accord V6. You keep most of the features and functions and value and lose another $7 large off the sticker price for losing the badge. The Bimmer and the Frankensedan are really just excuses for other cars you wish you could own instead. No need to compromise at $35k.
The TL is the only car in its class that isn't a compromise if you think about it.
BJ
07-26-2004, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjames
You'd be a fool to buy a prop plane when you wanted a jet, right?
You'd be disappointed to take your ski gear to Hawaii in July, right?
You'd be an idiot to come home with a cat when you wanted a dog, right?
No one compromises on FWD. You either want the format or you don't. It's black and white. Where I live and where I travel and how I drive, FWD is perfect. Far safer than RWD in lousy weather. Unlike others, I'm not spewing testasterone out of .35 cent tolls on the Garden State Turnpike or getting the heart rate up by jousting school buses between stop signs on Route 110.
In the real world where real drivers drive real luxury cars to real executive jobs, FWD is a benefit, not a compromise.
BJ
You'd be disappointed to take your ski gear to Hawaii in July, right?
You'd be an idiot to come home with a cat when you wanted a dog, right?
No one compromises on FWD. You either want the format or you don't. It's black and white. Where I live and where I travel and how I drive, FWD is perfect. Far safer than RWD in lousy weather. Unlike others, I'm not spewing testasterone out of .35 cent tolls on the Garden State Turnpike or getting the heart rate up by jousting school buses between stop signs on Route 110.
In the real world where real drivers drive real luxury cars to real executive jobs, FWD is a benefit, not a compromise.
BJ
07-26-2004, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjames
Good post. My thoughts:
The whole concept of comparing a BMW 3 to the TL is, in my opinion, somewhat strange.
The TL is really going after the BMW 5 customer. 40 year old dad with kids, needs four doors, needs a classic sedan, wants a little excitement and sport and technology mixed in. The 3 is really a fallback position for that customer.....a compromise.....you give up size to hit a price that's more comfortable and pick up better handling, RWD, etc. etc.
For you, you were in the Coupe market to begin with so the TL (I guess) was on your list because you viewed it as a larger vehicle than the 3 Coupe at a similar price with better features, value, etc. I don't mean to assume, but there are Coupe people and there are Sedan people. I was a Legend Coupe owner for many years and never even looked at that 'daddy' Sedan. Well, a wife and a few kids later and that Coupe is an impossibility. For you, it's different.
When I discuss the 3 in here, I'm always referring to the Sedan. Just like FWD is a black/white decision over RWD, so is a 2 door vs a 4 door. You either have kids or you don't. You either need the doors or you don't.
Let's break it in two so that we can have a good dialog going forward:
4 Door Conversation:
Acura TL
BMW 5
Infinity G35 Sedan
2 Door Conversation:
Acura TL*
BMW 3 Coupe
Infinity G35 Coupe
It's two completely different discussions, isn't it? I'm the biggest TL fan alive, but I'd choose the G35 Coupe or the 3 Coupe over the TL in a heartbeat if I was in a situation where I didn't have children. Why sacrifice all that sport for two heavy doors? Coupe's rule. Sedans are, well, sort of pedestrian. The TL's the sexiest one, but it's still a Sedan.
Conversely, if you're in the 4 door arena, the 3 is really tiny- even by Sedan standards. The G35 Sedan I've already covered.....it nice, but the TL is just a superior car. No need to go down that road again.
So......the BMW 3 Coupe is a best-in-class vehicle for a small car customer and really cannot be compared to the TL at all. If there was a TL Coupe, then yes. For now, no. If you can accomodate a 3 Coupe in your lifestyle, then the TL is really just a fallback for you....an alternative that's larger at a similar price. It's not a Coupe. It's a Sedan and can't be penalized for being so.
The BMW 3 Sedan is a compromise vs the TL from a standpoint of space/value but if you want a smaller sedan with a sexy badge then I guess that makes sense, but what you really want is a 5 if you think about it.
The BMW 5 Sedan is really the true benchmark vs the TL and in that regard the TL shines through brightly. You couldn't touch a 5 equipped like a TL for under what, $55k? If FWD is not a benefit, then you choose the G35. If FWD is a benefit you choose the TL. If you can afford it, you choose the 5. Anyone with 3 kids would never consider a 3 Sedan. Fact.
The 3 really doesn't enter the picture unless you're a youngester without a family who views it as just a tad more expensive than the TL and infinitely more sporty. For the real TL target audience, the 3 is not even in the equation.
BJ
The whole concept of comparing a BMW 3 to the TL is, in my opinion, somewhat strange.
The TL is really going after the BMW 5 customer. 40 year old dad with kids, needs four doors, needs a classic sedan, wants a little excitement and sport and technology mixed in. The 3 is really a fallback position for that customer.....a compromise.....you give up size to hit a price that's more comfortable and pick up better handling, RWD, etc. etc.
For you, you were in the Coupe market to begin with so the TL (I guess) was on your list because you viewed it as a larger vehicle than the 3 Coupe at a similar price with better features, value, etc. I don't mean to assume, but there are Coupe people and there are Sedan people. I was a Legend Coupe owner for many years and never even looked at that 'daddy' Sedan. Well, a wife and a few kids later and that Coupe is an impossibility. For you, it's different.
When I discuss the 3 in here, I'm always referring to the Sedan. Just like FWD is a black/white decision over RWD, so is a 2 door vs a 4 door. You either have kids or you don't. You either need the doors or you don't.
Let's break it in two so that we can have a good dialog going forward:
4 Door Conversation:
Acura TL
BMW 5
Infinity G35 Sedan
2 Door Conversation:
Acura TL*
BMW 3 Coupe
Infinity G35 Coupe
It's two completely different discussions, isn't it? I'm the biggest TL fan alive, but I'd choose the G35 Coupe or the 3 Coupe over the TL in a heartbeat if I was in a situation where I didn't have children. Why sacrifice all that sport for two heavy doors? Coupe's rule. Sedans are, well, sort of pedestrian. The TL's the sexiest one, but it's still a Sedan.
Conversely, if you're in the 4 door arena, the 3 is really tiny- even by Sedan standards. The G35 Sedan I've already covered.....it nice, but the TL is just a superior car. No need to go down that road again.
So......the BMW 3 Coupe is a best-in-class vehicle for a small car customer and really cannot be compared to the TL at all. If there was a TL Coupe, then yes. For now, no. If you can accomodate a 3 Coupe in your lifestyle, then the TL is really just a fallback for you....an alternative that's larger at a similar price. It's not a Coupe. It's a Sedan and can't be penalized for being so.
The BMW 3 Sedan is a compromise vs the TL from a standpoint of space/value but if you want a smaller sedan with a sexy badge then I guess that makes sense, but what you really want is a 5 if you think about it.
The BMW 5 Sedan is really the true benchmark vs the TL and in that regard the TL shines through brightly. You couldn't touch a 5 equipped like a TL for under what, $55k? If FWD is not a benefit, then you choose the G35. If FWD is a benefit you choose the TL. If you can afford it, you choose the 5. Anyone with 3 kids would never consider a 3 Sedan. Fact.
The 3 really doesn't enter the picture unless you're a youngester without a family who views it as just a tad more expensive than the TL and infinitely more sporty. For the real TL target audience, the 3 is not even in the equation.
BJ
The TL is a great car but not the second coming of Jesus Christ like you make it seem. Stay in your league, the TL cannot beat the cars in it's class in comparisons, let alone the 5. Get REAL
07-26-2004, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjames
Here's why the TL is better than the G35 Sedan and the 330 Sedan:
It is more feature-laden and more luxurious.
If we wanted a performance Sedan, we'd have purchased 330's. If we wanted a tad more luxury to go with the horsepower, we'd have purchased G35's. We didn't. We wanted luxury and lots of it. That was the primary motivator. To us, skidpads don't mean anything. Turning radius? Accelleration? We're 40 year old dad's with mortgages, kids in camp, and subscriptions to porn sites that our wives don't know about. What use is a skidpad? Torque steer? It's called a feature, not a detriment. Again, FWD is much safer in some climates....I couldn't drive my kids to school comfortably or get up my driveway without it in January.
Apparently, G35 owners view themselves as the graduates of the 1998 School of Accord and Civic Lowering and Ricing. It's six years later, you've got some bucks, so you buy a spanking new car designed for a dad but you think it's for Gen Y to compete with the next generation of the nitrous crowd. Pretty funny. Or is it sad? Either way, it's inaccurate.
So, to sum up the answer to your question in one sentence:
For those interested primarily in luxury and features, the Acura TL is the best car in its class.
BJ
It is more feature-laden and more luxurious.
If we wanted a performance Sedan, we'd have purchased 330's. If we wanted a tad more luxury to go with the horsepower, we'd have purchased G35's. We didn't. We wanted luxury and lots of it. That was the primary motivator. To us, skidpads don't mean anything. Turning radius? Accelleration? We're 40 year old dad's with mortgages, kids in camp, and subscriptions to porn sites that our wives don't know about. What use is a skidpad? Torque steer? It's called a feature, not a detriment. Again, FWD is much safer in some climates....I couldn't drive my kids to school comfortably or get up my driveway without it in January.
Apparently, G35 owners view themselves as the graduates of the 1998 School of Accord and Civic Lowering and Ricing. It's six years later, you've got some bucks, so you buy a spanking new car designed for a dad but you think it's for Gen Y to compete with the next generation of the nitrous crowd. Pretty funny. Or is it sad? Either way, it's inaccurate.
So, to sum up the answer to your question in one sentence:
For those interested primarily in luxury and features, the Acura TL is the best car in its class.
BJ
07-26-2004, 09:21 PM
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BJ, seems some of your fellow TL owners like racing their TL
http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88315
http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87617
http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88322
http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81949 (cold air intake thread)
http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85337(homemade intake)
But they have a RIGHT to mod the TL. It's doesn't make them boy-racer. So how can u call G35 owners that?
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/sed...dans/index.html
4th Place - Saab 9-3 Aero
3rd Place - Acura TL
2nd Place - Caddy CTS
1st Place - G35
Gentle reminder
http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88315
http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87617
http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88322
http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81949 (cold air intake thread)
http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85337(homemade intake)
But they have a RIGHT to mod the TL. It's doesn't make them boy-racer. So how can u call G35 owners that?
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/sed...dans/index.html
4th Place - Saab 9-3 Aero
3rd Place - Acura TL
2nd Place - Caddy CTS
1st Place - G35
Gentle reminder
07-26-2004, 09:29 PM
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Here are some pics from a car meet I organized with help from my club yesterday. Over 450+ cars. And not ONE 04 TL. And it was high-performance/luxury car meet. So continue to play big man behind the keyboard.
The thread here
http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85007
The thread here
http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85007
07-26-2004, 09:39 PM
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I would have loved to see the track lap times for the Car and Driver comparison. They moaned about the FWD layout of the TL, and the lack of power for the 325i and IS300. But it would have been really nice to see what difference these qualities make at a typical track. Would the exceptional handling of the IS300 and 325i make up for the power deficit? And would the limited slip on the TL help diminish the "underdog" factor of the FWD layout?
Anyone ever see any comparisons that include track lap times for this class (without mods of course)?
Anyone ever see any comparisons that include track lap times for this class (without mods of course)?
07-26-2004, 09:51 PM
#75
Moderator Alumnus
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Here are some pics from a car meet I organized with help from my club yesterday. Over 450+ cars. And not ONE 04 TL. And it was high-performance/luxury car meet. So continue to play big man behind the keyboard.
Edit: My bad, I never saw this over 3G... but meet forum...
07-26-2004, 09:51 PM
#76
Senior Moderator
The Scion C has pretty good performance for the price according to the auto rag writers. Luxury, I totally agree with you, missmyprelude. 
Nice pix, 1sicklex, thank you (though they're not germane to the thread). That's worth a thread in Ramblings: Cars and Bikes, could you post them there so folks can get a better look at that Ferrari and the other cars without having to dig through 3 pages? Was that Acura hood/grille from a 2G TL or CL?
Nice pix, 1sicklex, thank you (though they're not germane to the thread). That's worth a thread in Ramblings: Cars and Bikes, could you post them there so folks can get a better look at that Ferrari and the other cars without having to dig through 3 pages? Was that Acura hood/grille from a 2G TL or CL?
07-26-2004, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by rets
Did you ask us?
http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85007
07-26-2004, 09:55 PM
#78
Moderator Alumnus
Originally Posted by TL_6SPD
Look up 2 posts under his picture post at the bottom it had this link.
http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85007
http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85007
Yes, man, you're fast... I just edited my words... I think I kill the thread... it's time to close....
1SICKLEX & TL_6SPD... thanks for correction.
07-26-2004, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
FWD is a compromise for sports cars. Otherwise Ferraris and Lamborghinis and the focking McLaren F-1 would be FWD. :sqnteek: RWD is lousy to people that have NEVER owned a RWD car.
FWD is a compromise for sports cars. But...
The TL is not a sports car.
The G35 is not a sports car.
The BMW 3 is not a sports car.
They're family sedans. They've got four doors. They haul kids and dogs.
Who died and said these cars' primary objective is to be 'sporty'? They're luxury cars. They're luxury sedans. That's all they are. The natural decendants of the 1955 Buick Centurion. These cars we're debating.....they're luxury cars designed for dad. As long as they get you to the mall safely to get your 10% early bird doorbuster special at Macy's, they've done their job.
That's why the looks department and the luxury department counts for more than your beloved performance departmnent. In the end, we want to look good and feel comfortable in our family sedans. Family sedans. Family sedans. That's all they are. Family sedans. Repeat. Family sedans.
BJ
07-26-2004, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjames
Bingo! Finally, the Obsessive ClubLexus Moderator / TL Troll hits the nail squarely on the head.
FWD is a compromise for sports cars. But...
The TL is not a sports car.
The G35 is not a sports car.
The BMW 3 is not a sports car.
They're family sedans. They've got four doors. They haul kids and dogs.
Who died and said these cars' primary objective is to be 'sporty'? They're luxury cars. They're luxury sedans. That's all they are. The natural decendants of the 1955 Buick Centurion. These cars we're debating.....they're luxury cars designed for dad. As long as they get you to the mall safely to get your 10% early bird doorbuster special at Macy's, they've done their job.
That's why the looks department and the luxury department counts for more than your beloved performance departmnent. In the end, we want to look good and feel comfortable in our family sedans. Family sedans. Family sedans. That's all they are. Family sedans. Repeat. Family sedans.
BJ
FWD is a compromise for sports cars. But...
The TL is not a sports car.
The G35 is not a sports car.
The BMW 3 is not a sports car.
They're family sedans. They've got four doors. They haul kids and dogs.
Who died and said these cars' primary objective is to be 'sporty'? They're luxury cars. They're luxury sedans. That's all they are. The natural decendants of the 1955 Buick Centurion. These cars we're debating.....they're luxury cars designed for dad. As long as they get you to the mall safely to get your 10% early bird doorbuster special at Macy's, they've done their job.
That's why the looks department and the luxury department counts for more than your beloved performance departmnent. In the end, we want to look good and feel comfortable in our family sedans. Family sedans. Family sedans. That's all they are. Family sedans. Repeat. Family sedans.
BJ
It has the same chassis as the Z and the same motor (same tranny too). Its a Z with a 2 extra doors. Yes, you can even swap out the G suspension for the Z suspension. Same with the 3 series...are you implying that the M3 is not a sports car These cars have EXACTLY the same chassis as their sports car predecessors. The TL is the red-headed step child of the bunch with a pedestrian Accord chassis.Sorry, modern day sports sedans are exactly that. SPORTS sedans. They are every bit as agile and quick as their sports car cousins. Are you implying that the EVO and STi are also not sports cars because they are 4-doors. I think a re-evaluation of the word SPORTS is in order.