Aegir

Simple response: Because the debate is allowed here. This one is actually quite good.

You have to expect a few cat calls from the peanut gallery. Don't complain about them and contribute to them in the same post!

shodog

on G35driver.com there have been many G35 Vs TL debates but they usually don't denigrate name calling unless the Imature TL trolls get involved

DARK6mt

iTrader: (1)

I do hear both stories. However some rather just play their trumpet and not listen to others.

DARK6mt

iTrader: (1)

LOL!!! so you know how we feel about you guys.

Aegir

Sadly, I guess that's always the case, except here it's the "G35 troll" and in BMW land it's the 'rice trolls'...

DARK6mt

iTrader: (1)

shodog

Any car can be modded to improve upon it's suspension, acceleration and braking. But we're talking stock to stock. Here are the reasons I say the TL platform is subpar

The G35 (.87 skidpad)out handles the TL's (.80 skidpad)

The G35 (111 feet from 60 and 320 from 100) out brakes the TL's 128/372

The G35 (0-60 6mt 5.6) out accelerates the TL's 5.8 6mt 0-60 time

Aegir

I'm not comparing to the G35. That's not the point. I'm addressing the "subpar" characterization.

Do you have the numbers from the C&D $35K 6MT comparison test? I don't. In the text on the net, the TL smoked all comers 0-60 including the G35, same place-day-drivers.

boltjames

The Infinity G35 is a strange car made by a strange compani that no one knows exists anymore. It's got a great nose but an ugly butt. It's interior is cheap. You love it? Good for you. This is the TL forum. It's frequented by people who looked at buying the G35 and dismissed it for the TL. Does it surprise you that your beliefs are not embraced here?

I could care less which brand is killing which in terms of sales. No one said this was a populariti contest. Infinity is having a good sales year simpli because they're up against weak numbers.

If you're into performance and twisties and scari fast racing to impress your 18 year old high school friends, go get a G35. I guess a few thousanths of a second off 0-60 times is certainli worth compromising on design and features. The Sedan is awkward. The Coupe is veri nice, but we're not discussing that here.

If you're into luxuri and features and normal driving to keep your wife and children safe and comfortable, go get a TL. Having a dreadfuli slow car like the TL with terrible handling characteristics.....boy, that realli bothers me as I'm doing 40 in a 35 mph zone. Damn, wish I could afford an NSX to go buy the milk. Those soccer mom's would envi me then.

Do we at least agree that the Lexus ES330 is a ladies car and shouldn't be driven by men?

BJ

shodog

I just outlined the reasons why it is subpar. Now if you compared the TL to say a ford taurus, then yes the TL is much better. But since the TL is a sport sedan then it should be compared with other sport sedans.

Aegir

Interesting. My wife, who could car less about the enthusiast aspects of cars, hated the front of the G35 coupe. I know this is a purely subjective thing, but I can't understate how strongly she felt about it. It was a show stopper for her.

I agree that the artistry seen in the G35 coupe, and I really mean that because I think it is a beautiful car, was somehow lost when transferred to the sedan.

Aegir

Great. Let's let someone else argue for us: http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1

Not subpar.

shodog

BJ, in any of your 1328 posts, have you ever offered an opinion with any value. I am sure you regale in the trouble you stir but its not only apparent to us G35 trolls but to the other mature members of this forum on how little insight you truly have to offer.

Having a well balanced car isn’t only for the twisties, it’s for the times when you’re driving down the highway and you have to make an emergency maneuver. A well balanced car is less likely to fish tail around and lose control.

A few thousands of a second turns into a huge gap as you would no longer hang when the straight road turns into curves.

boltjames

[QUOTE=shodog][QUOTE=Aegir]I'm not comparing to the G35. That's not the point. I'm addressing the "subpar" characterization.

The TL is a luxury sedan, not a sports sedan. So is the G35 and the BMW 3. They're luxury cars first, sports second. They're expensive cars designed for upper middle class executive dads.

The M3 is a sports sedan. The EVO is a sports sedan. There are lots of sports sedans that put peformance so high on the scale that the luxury doesn't even come into the picture. They're inexpensive cars designed for the children of upper middle class executive dads.

Do you watch TV? Do you see how these cars are marketed? Acura's TL campaign shows a guy driving alone on a highway using GPS, voice recognition, handsfree dialing, XM radio. He's not wearing leather on a drag strip sweating bullets over beating a 911. BMW commercials feature elevator-classical music with cars running straight through the Black Forest. A few vocal 20 somethings in this forum will not change the fact that these cars are being built for your dad, not you, and that the appeal to these dads is as a luxury car first, a 'performance' car a distant second.

They're luxury sedans. No one confuses a TL with an Evo. As a luxury sedan, the TL is atop its market segment. Mixing it into the sports sedan segment is inaccurate and does nothing except provide defense against a terrific car.

BJ

DopeTL04

And im willing to compromise .2 secs 0-60, .07 skidpad...braking I def am used to it now, its all upon the drivers control!! None is more dangerous than the other....but these tiny tiny tiny little performance advantages which is expected out of a bigger engine, does not replace the 100000X better interior and 100000x better technology, 1000000X better navi, 1000000X better exterior!! sooo there. to the TL

boltjames

Now this is rich. Here's a guy touting the G35 for it's sports appeal and ability to drive illegally and un-safely attempting to turn around and say that the TL is an un-safe car because a maniac can't drive it as safely when he's driving it illegally.

Okay. So therefore the TL is a safer car because it doesn't induce you to take stupid chances by driving more aggressively than the specifications of the car and local law enforcement deems proper. Cool?

Let's keep doing this for a few weeks. It'll be fun. In the end, the TL is a better luxury sedan than the G35 is a sports sedan. Nothing's going to change that in the TL forum.

BJ

DopeTL04

Nothing going to change that anywhere! ITs A FACT!! :sqntfawk:

PoochaKannInc

I hate to interrupt this but I understand your view shodog (and a few of the more articulate people who responded to this thread. Now please try and understand mine.

What are we all learning from this discussion? Anything? Obviously as this is a TL forum people will defend their choice vigorously. So will those who defected from the Acura fold to Infiniti. It's as if we want the other person to validate our choice. Never gonna happen.

I don't believe the TL chassis is subpar. You do. Fine, but the difference is just in the degrees. I will not argue that the G has better handling capabilities, but that does not make the TL chassis subpar. With the TL's "handicap" of FWD, it does amazingly well in the slalom, in stopping distances, in 0-60 times (even with FWD which is known to have bad launch characteristics compared to RWD). To you perhaps the TL capabilities is not enough, to me it is more than enough (esp when I live in NY).

My point is, you obviously chose the G because it is better in your mind. I chose the TL. Not to say discussion of the issue is bad, but the G vs. TL has been beaten to death already. I'm glad this thread has not gotten to the point of name-calling and insults and useless "IMO your car looks like ass" statements. But it will. And then the thread will be closed. In a week it will be started anew by some well-meaning person, and then taken over by those of us who feel more "strongly" about the issue.

Again I ask...what's the point?

Aegir

The differences presented in the first two tests (skidpad and braking) are significant. 5AT vs. 5AT, the G35 holds a measureable advantage in these tests. Acura closes the gap with the 6MT. I do dispute the acceleration times if they were not same time-place-drivers. The TL was significantly faster in the one head-to-head comparison that I've read (C&D).

Aegir

We're supossed to have an agenda for this meeting? :sqnteek:

Monte TLS,MAX

Bolt James you should clean up all of those mispells in your post 127, not looking good for a smart executive.

populariti
scari
certainli
veri
thousanths
realli
dreadfuli
envi
Infinity

G35,TL,330 all great cars depsite having different drive train layouts/features. You have the diehard Nissan/Infiniti guys and the diehard Honda/Acura guys and nothings going to change there opinions, just repsect it.

Aegir

Either your joking or this (the use of i and y) just sailed right over your head. Thanks for highlighting it. I had missed it.

EZZ

Eventually, we're all gonna have to agree that the G35 is a good but ugly car, the TL is a superior luxury vehicle, the coupe is a beauty and everything the sedan isn't, and the ES330 is for chicks. Everyone happy now

PoochaKannInc

You didn't get the memo? If this isn't an official meeting, then what the hell have I been taking minutes for then?

You are right of course. That doesn't mean I don't feel just a little frustrated when I see the same issues, with the same people responding, and the same tired arguments.

I know I should just ignore these threads, but I always hope for an intelligent discussion. In all honesty the first couple of pages were pretty good.

DopeTL04

Boy you got that right....why would anyone want an ugly car I just dont understand! It like would you marry a very ugly woman just cuz shes good in bed??

Aegir

No, but if she could cook...

jjsC5

I had my G35 for a year and a half, and nobody ever told me they thought is was ugly. I know how you feel, and despite some of our exchanges, I can respect that your opinion has value. But there are enough G35 sedans out there, and enough people that don''t think they are ugly that maybe your opinion is not shared by very many people.

I had a friend tell me he thinks my TL looks like a Pontiac. Frankly, I was somewhat insulted by that.

EZZ

OOOOOO... Laundry is also important. You gotta have car...er girl that can do laundry

DARK6mt

iTrader: (1)

I was doing 60 on the New JErsey Jug handle today........ I think My TL has pretty good handling.

DopeTL04

I can gurantee more people think it is ugly than ones that do not! MOst people who do not, probably own one so they have to say that......face it, its really a ugly car!!

shodog

Huh! where do I say "touting the G35 for it's sports appeal and ability to drive illegally and un-safely"

An emergency maneuver is just that, in an emergency. Case in point, about 3 months ago I am driving down 280 here in the bay area. Ahead of me was a pick up truck carrying old windows from a house. All of a sudden the wind caught up under one of them an it flew out of the truck like a UFO. I jerked the wheel to the left and the window flew right by my passenger side. My wife was freaking. The car started to slide but the traction and VDC kicked in along with my driving skills allowed us to safely come to a stop and not end up inthe Guard Rail. Behind us was a huge mess as cars slid out and a few crashed into each other. It's times like these that makes you appreciate a well balanced car.

So what does all this arguing back and forth about these two fine car get? Nowhere. You guys are going to defend the TL with the same zeal we do. it's the ignorant few that spew around misinformation, conjecture and opinion as fact that ruins a good discussion

shodog

And a warmed over 1998 mustang styled car is?

DopeTL04

A Ford!

NightRider

One good thing about both the G35 and TL is that they are fairly unique loking cars, which is why they both get a lot of head turns on the road. At least, I thought the TL looked unique until my friend told me from the side it kind of looks like a Dodge Stratus or old 300C or something. I guess because if the wedge shape of both you could draw some similarities, actually no not really...

TLud

Wow, I disappeared for a day, and look what this turned into...

These comparo threads always start out with good discussions before denigrating into worthless games of post tag. You know the thread has gone to hell when spelling and grammar come into play. I've come to accept the fact that most people on these forums have the writing skills of 3rd graders. Heck, half the people here might be 3rd graders...

Getting back to the discussion, I'm obviously biased towards the bimmer and I'm usually on bimmerfest.com, but I like coming here for the interesting discussions on various cars. On bimmerfest we're too busy talking about why something on our cars doesn't work to discuss anything else (for any of you anal people who will try to use this as proof that BMW reliability sucks, this was a joke). Leaving the BMW alone for a bit (not that it's really being discussed anyways), I'll offer some more impartial thoughts on the TL versus G35 debate.

I believe that these are two cars that are starting from different ends of the same spectrum, which will sooner or later meet in the middle. The TL starts with luxury and adds sportiness, while the G35 starts with sportiness and adds luxury. As these cars develop (and replicate each other's more positive traits), I believe, like someone else said already, that you'll end up with cars with very similar features and performance, but with the unique twist that each carmaker lends to the equation.

So what the choice comes down to for most people, is where on this sportiness-luxury spectrum they personally sit (and of course, practicality must factor in). Sure, we'd all love to have a car that performs like a Ferrari, gives us enough of the latest gadgets and features that even McGyver wouldn't know what to do with himself, and offers safety and practicality to boot. But that just doesn't exist and can't exist in a car that costs $35k.

This decision was made hard for me because I'm a huge nerd and love the gadgets and toys. The TL IMMEDIATELY appealed to this side of me as soon as I saw it. But I'm also a huge adrenaline/performance junkie, so that side needs to be satisfied as well. When I took the TL for a test drive, I was very pleasantly satisfied to find that I REALLY enjoyed driving it as well. I stand by my previous statement that I dislike FWD even in normal driving situations, but that point aside, the TL handled itself and performed amazingly well in my limited test drives. And that wasn't even with the A-Spec package that I wanted (to take away some of that weird float that I noticed a few times).

As for the G35, I must admit that I didn't drive the sedan, just the coupe. I think that the coupe is gorgeous, but the sedan is a little less attractive until some post-factory mods are added, at which point the sedan can look incredible. I've seen some of the sedans on the G35 forum, and they look fantastic.

While the performance numbers of the G35 are very similar to those of the TL, I don't think that the performance of these two cars can really be compared because they are two very different animals. The G35, at least the coupe, drove like a sports car. In fact, my problem was that it was a little too rough around the edges like a sports car (I wanted something to differentiate it more from the Z). That performance though was superb, and don't get me started on that exhaust note (WOW!).

The interior of the G35, however, was a showstopper for me. I don't mean to harp on things that have been repeated ad naseum, but it wasn't so much the appearance of the interior, it was the ergonomics. I felt like the appearance was a little cheap, but nothing that I couldn't live with and learn to love. The real problem was in things like the location of the seat adjustments, the location of the cupholders, the design of the steering wheel, and a few other gripes that I don't recall since it's been awhile. These things would have been a daily annoyance that would have kept me from enjoying the truly splendid performance that the G offers. I must admit that this compalint is probably due in a large part to my lack of experience in driving Nissan products (until the bimmer, I've driven mostly Toyota and Honda products), so this probably affected me more than most others.

Now, that I've written an entire article on this issue, I'm going to disappear for Day 2 of the TX bar exam (ugh!).

TL_6SPD

And that was the slowest time the G35 has ever done in any test too.

TL_6SPD

Hmmm, had mine for 7 months now, not one person has said its ugly or even behind my back. They actually love the way the car looks.

You can't gurantee anything because you have no clue what your talking about. :shit:

boltjames

Some of my best work is missed by my target audience and misinterpreted by the rest. I'm going to have to work harder in the future.

BJ

Liquid _Courage

The G doesn't look like :shit: The Scion toaster does. I can't believe they're selling those. They remind me of the early 80's minivans. Sorry, I had to get that out. I just saw one during lunch and they look like :shit: :shit: IMHO

boltjames

Misinformation: The G35 is a great sports sedan.

Conjecture: The TL is a great luxury sedan.

Opinion as fact: The TL appeals to luxury buyers wheras the G35 appeals to sports car buyers.

The end?

BJ