fuque

From a message in another thread:

This guy is going to be kicking himself in a few weeks... Many people who decided against a nav system later regretted the decision.

Some of you may have heard of the underrated horsepower of the new Mazda RX-8. When the news of the lower-than-advertised HP became publicly known, Mazda wisely decided to buy back the affected cars from any owner who wished to sell it back. If you check out the RX-8 forums, you'll see that many many people returned their RX-8... only to turn right around and purchase another one! The new ones have the same HP as the ones they turned in, but many people took advantage of the opportunity to unload their non-nav car and purchase an RX-8 with a nav system installed.

Anyway, a bit of advice to anyone who is "on the fence" about getting the nav system: buy it! You won't regret it!! And if you don't, you'll wish you had.

stlgasman

non-navi, no regrets

Pal

I heard a Nav adds 50/month or so, mabye its not worth for some.

eneg

Nav or Non-Nav, I couldn't care less.
All I want is a healthy car!!!

Eneg

neuronbob

I, too, made the error of not purchasing a navi when I bought my 2002 TL-P. I almost immediately regretted it because I travel enough to justify the purchase. I rectified my error when I purchased my new 2004 TL....and besides, the new TL's interior really does look more composed with the single navi screen than with the split non-navi radio screen.

Saintor_RENAMED

The NAVI is not available in 6 speeds versions in Canada. Anyway, it is the kind of gadgets that you play at first and mostly ignore later.

RJC RSX

i strongly disagree

RJC RSX

i think he was referring to an increase in car payments

Pal

Yes, increase in car payment. So maybe that money isn't worth it for those who live in small towns.
I am up for a Nav actually and the primary reason was the high-res display vs the regular display. I figured that if I am buying a car around 33k, 2k more won't hurt considering that Nav is not something you can add-on later.

prozzi

Nav are great to have, saying that it is something you use now but not later is wrong. I use my nav all the time, especially if I am traveling and want to find the nearest hotel, restaurant, even a auto dealership. I think I will never buy a car without it, I don't even consider a car now if you can't get the Nav.

pcinoc

I'm sorry to say I totally disagree with you. I use to think it was ONLY a gadget but having used the gadget in my Odyssey and looking at the 04 TL right now, I would not go without it.

I might not be a big deal when you go around Mascouche and Ste-Therese, but when I had to go to a wedding in San Francisco, a city I had never visited, nothing was more convenient than punching the hotel phone number and the OK button to get my ~600 miles route planned for me. Needless to say, everyone wanted to go with me around town - I knew where I was going even though I had no idea where I was going. I didn't need to know and that's the whole point.

Now, when you want to go from the University to the Old Montreal, what's the easiest way to get there? What's the easiest way to anywhere around town? You'd be surprise to find out how you use the NAVI pretty much everytime you jump in the car - unless you use your car to go to/from work only. The best example would be to go from let's say... Chertsey to St-Sauveur? How would you get there? The NAVI could save your several Km and possibly time on your commute. You can pick a DIRECT route or an EASY route. I'm telling you, yes it is a toy as you currently don't need it to go around town but once you have it, it is put to good use everyday. That's especially true when you end up in a part of town for the first time and are looking to get back on the freeway. I just follow the direction from bitchy Betty! What do you do? Stop at the nearest Ultramar?

It's also very convenient to locate a store/hospital/Honda or Acura dealers/hotels (very useful late at night ) Adding Voice recognition is a great addition! I can't wait to direct the NAVI via voice. Say hi to the Ultramar clerck for me!

pcinoc

What can I say - When you go NAVI, you never go back. The best thing is that I don't have to answer those phone calls from the wife when she is lost.

It's not for the guy/girl who drive from home to work and back home. If you spend any kind of time on the road - we put more than our fair share of time here in California - you will not regret it. I think most people knocking it down have never spend any kind of time in a car with a decent - not one of those Hertz/PDA never lost system - NAVI system.

Cars are like women - everyone wants to go out with the 9 or 10 - yes Fuque that's LA 9 or 10 - but only a few can afford them. That's the same thing with the NAVI - only a few want to put out the $$$ for Betty - that's our affectionate name for the female voice which comes from many years in the commercial aviation business where I discovered her .... Approaching Minimums...200, 100, 50,40,30,20,10.

In other words, the Non-NAVI users will keep going to Olive Garder while the NAVI buyers will find the "real" Italian restaurant in town. "Find Best Italian Restaurant Bitchy Betty!"

In a Half Mile, Make a right turn. Destination on the left!
Thanks!

tlzabob

No I woo-oon't...

"This Guy" here. I don't think I will be sorry. Look, the extra money didn't really matter but it made my wife happy that I bought a new dining room table instead of the Navi. I would love to have it but given that it will mostly sit there, useful as an 8 track, in my dash, I probably wouldn't even get proficient at using it. When I go on the road, I take the van so I don't know when I'd get the chance to be sorry. If I still lived in Vancouver I would get it. Anyway, I'll probably have this car for three years, by then they'll have picked up the mapping here (hopefully).

Cheers.

MattB

It all depends on your driving habits. For some people it's useless. They just don't need it. For others it's great to have, especially if you ever travel long distances. I found it to be a lifesaver on the demo cars I drove at Clair Acura since I'd be sent to a location and given only an address. Sure I could go to mapquest, but it was a lot easier to have the navigation system tell me where to go. I'd say it's worth the extra $2K, but that's just me...

larchmont

NO WAY it should add that much. BTW, IMO this is right in line with how it becomes so much harder to judge what's really going on about the price if you lease (which is what I assume you're talking about). I mean, you said that number, and a bunch of people have come on here, and nobody easily recognized that this number is ridiculous (no offense -- as I said, this lease stuff makes it hard).

Let's do the math. The MSRP-add-on of the Nav is $2000, so that's the absolute maximum extra it should cost, right? Depending on what kind of price you might be able to negotiate on the car, that's about a 7.5% to 8% add-on to the price of the car.

So, getting back to your number, if $50/month were the extra amount for Nav, and if that represents 7.5% to 8% of the basic cost, that means you're expecting to pay about $700/month, WITHOUT Nav.

I imagine that a more accurate estimate would be $25-30/month.

Again, no offense, this is no aspersion on anybody. IMO it's a comment on how it's really hard to keep sight of what's what when you lease.

KC 2004 TSX

A good way to judge a purchase payments is $20 per each thousand financed. This is at 8%. It's a good gadge as 5% is $18.80.

The thing that a Navi does when you are leasing is it lowers the residual value. That is where the $50 comes in. $2000 will add $50 to a lease. Even with this fact I wish I would have purchased the Navi.

duugk

Ha ha. We call Tokyo Rose's granddaughter "Bitchin Betty" too in our MDX. In the TSX, it sounds like she has grown up and has started smoking. (Which is cool if you ever go on a date with her if you know what I mean.) I call the new one, "Tia". (Because driving her around is so close to sex.)

Anyway, here's another aspect. Me and the wife don't argue very often, but when we are lost it is almost a guaranteed hum dinger of a fight. I don't want to stop for directions from someone who may not have a clue, and she thinks every bum on the street has an in depth knowlege of local cartography. Anyway, since the introduction of Navi into the family, we have had nothing but smooth sailing....in the car that is. Yeah, we first got it as a toy, but now, I don't want a car without one....it's like a microwave in the kitchen to me, a no-brainer-must-have.

On course, on glideslope.....

KC 2004 TSX

This is classic...

larchmont

WHAT??????

That couldn't possibly be true. And it's not.

Jason

You are wrong. If this is your opinion, you have obviously never driven a Honda/Acura car with the nav system. I don't care if you have lived in the same place for 20 years, you will use the nav system almost daily. I use it every time I get in the car.

The only buyer I would advise against buying a nav system would live in an unmapped area that has zero traffic, and the owner never goes on a road trip of any kind. Everyone else should buy one.

KC 2004 TSX

I love to be able to say this... Yes it is.

Residual Values 36 months 60 months
2004 Acura TSX 5-speed AT 56% 41%

2004 Acura TSX 5-speed AT 53% 39%
w/ Navigation System

I expected better research from you. Check the acura web site if you do not believe me.

larchmont

Well. It sounded like you meant ABSOLUTE value, not percentage figures.
And in terms of the calculations we're doing here, it's the absolute values that ultimately determine the answers, not the percentage figures.

What I said is true in terms of ABSOLUTE residual values.

Sometimes it's not research, it's common sense. There's no way the Nav car would have a lower (absolute) residual value than the non-Nav car.

KC 2004 TSX

I think you took what you thought I meant. The Navi does lower the residual value. I also never wrote that it was lower than a non navi. Anyway, Navi is like a computer, it's not going to hold it value very long. In the Black Book on a 3 year old TL it's a $500 add. Not very good. I still wish I would have purchased it.

Jason

I agree with what you are saying with the $500, but I think it will hurt non-nav cars in the future more as the nav system becomes more and more common/accepted in cars. Cars w/o nav will become less desirable and harder to sell, thus the value of nav-equipped cars will go up relative to the current $500 resale utz.

kiteboy

With the way computer tech advances, I doubt today's whiz-bang nav system will be very desirable at resale time.

That said, I've used a GPS w/database lookup for a few years now and it's invaluable for routing and finding hotels, restaurants, etc. I've always stuck with a handheld model because I can use it during other outdoor activities, and most importantly, in the rental car far away from home were it's most valuable. Around town, it's not in the car unless I'm going somewhere new.

Of course, the screen's not as big, and the controls aren't integrated into the car, but I find that the other advantages outweigh the usability concerns. And they're generally cheaper and have their maps updated more frequently.

I guess the best option is to have both handheld and integrated units, but that costs $$$.

legendguy

kiteboy-

What handheld gps system do you have? Does it have the entire USA in the system at one time or do you download a new state/area as needed? How much for the handheld? I am just wondering to see what the advantages/disadvantages would add up to compared with the factory nav.

I wonder if this might turn out to be similar to the installed car phones of 10-15 years ago? I know I had one (in '92) because the handhelds were either big or underpowered. Once the cell phone went down in size and up in power (due to increased "cells"), having a built in phone made not much sense.

A question I would have for factory nav users is how important is the size of the screen? When I test drove the nav TL I found that I never looked at the screen when driving because of the voice prompts.

pcinoc

BRAVO!! You are so right!

I got stuck between San Jose and LA last weekend and I was the only one who figured out there was a way out of the gridlock on the 5 freeway.

I was in the middle of nowhere right around Avenal which is a little village/town sort of between Fresno and Bakersfield. Pull out MapPoint as it is good that this town is in BFE. So I'm in the middle of nowhere and I since I had plenty of time to search for an alternate route, I looked up the available options on my NAVI, jumped on the 269, to the 33 and back on the 5 via the 46. I don't need to tell anyone I was just about the only car on the 269/33/46 and I bypassed the traffic jam while all of the other non-NAVI drivers were still sitting in Avenal....

I my NAVI.

pcinoc

$500 is probably about right. And that's the cost of using the system for 3 years. How valuable is your time? It has a high depreciation just like other options - ABS, upgraded wheels, tires, etc.

Not very good but not very different than other options. That's just the way the market works. It's a nice convenience to have and there is a price to pay. Once you have gone NAVI, you never go back!

pcinoc

There is simply no comparison between the integrated system and the handheld solution. If the handheld works for you and you are willing to spend the time to update the firmware/database as needed, go for it. The integrated solution with voice commands and an 8-inch display is a much better alternative.

On a different note, how is the handheld different then the integrated solution as far as resale value? Have you ever wondered how much you could get for that handheld you have? Probably not a lot. You may be lucky at the next garage sale...and get $20.00 for it. The point is that you will never see the money you spent on that handheld again....same is true for the NAVI but you get to use it for a period of time.

wiz

I regret not getting the Navi. I thought I didn't want to spend the money for it at first, but after I test drove the new TL with the navi, I wish I would have gotten it in my TSX now. Just the ability to know where I am at all times would have been worth it now, although it would have made it harder for the salesman to get the price of the car down to what I wanted to pay.

BradW

I didn't think twice about getting a non-navi. Ofcourse I'll probably only drive the TL 5000 miles a year, its just a to and from work car. I drive Navi cars while at work for errands since they are Demos and honestly I find them distracting. I probably have 300-500 miles behind the wheel of a Navi TL and definitely didn't think it was worth the extra 50 dollars a month.

But as with every option, its a personal thing. Some people need it, some think its cool and others have no need.

rudedawg

i have an '02 tl-s w/ navi and it's so cool to have, can't live w/o it,
just imagine the '04 version, voice activated & more poi & features. my .02 cents

kiteboy

I have an Etrex Legend, which only has 8Mb. I'm in Canada and I can get Toronto and Montreal and everything in between. If I'm going on a trip, I load the maps in, which takes about 10 min. It's really not a big deal. It only costs a couple of hundred bucks. Ok, it might be worth nothing in 2 years, but I've lost $200, instead of $1500. There are far more powerful units on the market with more memory, colour and voice prompting, such as the $500 iQue3600. A large colour screen is better since you can see more map detail.

I also chose the Etrex because I also use it in a variety of outdoor activites such as hiking and inline skating. I've even taken it glider flying where it shows speed and altitude.

I agree with the others, for automotive use, it doesn't compare to a dedicated installed unit. But, it has the core functionality of telling you where you are in relation to your destination, mapping and points of interest database, for way less money.

Handhelds are a bit more flexible as well - for instance the
iQue is a full PalmOS PDA and plays mp3's, so you do in iPod type install with it as well.

Hey, if you've got the bucks, get both. But imho, $3k isn't chump change in this class of car.

fast-tl

larchmont, take 2000 and divide it by 60minths and that's $33/mo. Add interest and I can se $50/month easily.

larchmont

OK, everybody, what's the fallacy here?

OK, OK, don't all raise your hands at once.

95gt

besides the spelling?

mrdoug

I'm sure getting the navi is like getting other "bells and whistles" - that is, you don't think you need it, then you get exposed to it, then you can't live without it. I got my 6 MT without navi, and I don't regret it at all, but I'm sure that's partly because I've never lived with it and gotten used to all the neat stuff it can do. The reason I skipped it was (a) I didn't feel like spending the extra 2 G, and (2) I have a very good sense of direction, know when I'm going east, north, west or south, so don't have that much use for it. I would like to have the little compass thing on the bottom of the rear view mirror, though - those are kind of cool and useful in a simple kind of way.

Peter7777

People who sit in the passenger seat in my TL get a lot of use from the Navi screen in displaying XM radio information and tuning in the XM channels.

TSriX

Everyone has their own reason to have purchased or not have purchased a Navi. The fact is if you had the $$$ to spend on the navi, fantastic. There is no doubt you will have great benefit from it. For those of you who made the non navi decision like myself, good for you too. You all had good reasons not to invest the extra $$$. On your next car purchase (maybe in two purchases) it will be standard and not an option.

If I had the extra 2000$ I probably would have been shopping a different car altogether.

pcinoc

PLEASE!! I've been looking at a lot of cars in the TL price range with similar equipment and quality/reliability history. I'm curious what car you are looking to "upgrade" to for the extra 2K? The TL price is price in such a way that you will have difficulty to find anything that compares EVEN with your extra $2K (US which is slightly below the 3K CDN mark). Tell us all what car you are thinking of for the extra 3K CDN?