When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
If French design is so great than why is the Renault Zoe drivetrain about 25% less efficient than Tesla's? Why does the massive SUV Tesla Model X (0.25) have a better drag coefficient than the Zoe (0.29)? .
That is because their groundbreaking researchers have still not finished high school yet. Remember they are planning to start an EV research team in the next decade by using the combined funds of Peugeot-Citroen and FCA. Lol.
******************************************
The same guys who states that Tesla won’t sell in US because the $1800 tax credit is ending; states that $3700 tax credit is no big deal for a $50k car in China.
You can’t have it both ways. Pick one. .
This discussion isn’t worth a dime.
That is because their groundbreaking researchers have still not finished high school yet. Remember they are planning to start an EV research team in the next decade by using the combined funds of Peugeot-Citroen and FCA. Lol.
******************************************
The same guys who states that Tesla won’t sell in US because the $1800 tax credit is ending; states that $3700 tax credit is no big deal for a $50k car in China.
You can’t have it both ways. Pick one. .
This discussion isn’t worth a dime.
you do realize you cannot buy Tesla price vehicles on Chinese salary. its very specific target audience there. in california its upper middle class on salaries can afford. each market is different.
French battery research not tied to specific automakers. its at EU level.
you do realize you cannot buy Tesla price vehicles on Chinese salary. its very specific target audience there. in california its upper middle class on salaries can afford. each market is different.
French battery research not tied to specific automakers. its at EU level.
Flat out wrong, again. Many people are trading in Honda Civics, and Toyota Camry and other cars that cost 20-30k to upgrade to a $50k Model 3.
We asked 5,000 Model 3 owners about their previous cars and whether they’ll ever go back to them. Some of the most common trade-ins, somewhat surprisingly, were economy cars: Honda’s Accord and Civic, the Toyota Camry, and the Mazda 3. But as a percentage of a brand’s total sales, no one has been hurt more by Tesla’s success than BMW, the responses show.
As the Model 3 enters its third year—soon to be followed by the Model Y compact SUV—Tesla must prove that its wide appeal so far isn’t just a temporary rush of early adopters. Will most brand loyalists and economy-car buyers stick to their old habits? Or is Tesla repeating what Apple Inc. did with the phone: convincing consumers to fundamentally reassess how they value an established product?
Car customers are fairly predictable: They stick with vehicles that are similar to the ones they drove before. Brand loyalties are even passed down across generations. Tesla, so far, has broken these loyalties with the allure of new technology, high performance, and environmental sustainability.
Tesla Model 3 wreaks havoc on Mercedes-Benz and BMW in luxury sedan segment
Since the Tesla Model 3 began initial deliveries in Summer 2017, figures show that the United States’ ten most popular petrol-powered luxury sedans have seen a decline in popularity. All ten of the sedans have experienced a drop in sales when comparing numbers from 2017 and 2019.
The sales figures for the Model 3 have shown a striking increase over the past two years since its release. But a report from wheelsjoint.com shows other automakers haven’t had the success Tesla has experienced.
The downswing in these vehicles can all be attributed to the beginning of Tesla’s mass production of the Model 3 in 2018. Tesla’s most affordable sedan has clearly caused a change in what appeals to the average consumer who is looking to purchase a luxury vehicle. Credit: wheelsjoint.com Tesla reported that it delivered 145,846 Model 3s in 2018 after its mass production phase for the vehicle began. But 2019 would prove to be the biggest year for Tesla yet. They delivered 92,550 Model 3s in 2019 Q4 alone or 63% of what they delivered in the previous year as a whole.
Increased Model 3 deliveries in 2019 only caused a sharper dip in sales for the group of internal combustion engine luxury vehicles. The popularity of the Model 3 has effected all of the vehicles negatively, but no car felt the effects more than the BMW 4-Series.
The 4-Series has seen a 53% drop in sales figures from 2017 to 2019. The car’s numerous variants were sold 39,634 times in 2017, but that number dropped to below 19,000 units in 2019. The 4-Series was first offered to the public in 2013 and was one of BMW’s best selling lines. However, sales of sharply dropped off and BMW is planning to release a new “2nd Gen” body style of the 4-series to hopefully revive its popularity.
The Mercedes-Benz C-Class also has watched its numbers crumble as a result of the Model 3. The C-Class is a car that has shown steady growth since its first model was released in 1993. While the car is the most popular on the list as Mercedes-Benz sold 77,446 C-Class units in 2017, it experienced the second sharpest drop on the list at 36%. It managed to only sell 40,739 units in 2019.
More of this to see in the compact SUV sector in 2020 and beyond. Just wait a few months. I'm concerned that Acura might be confined to a one vehicle brand (MDX).
Flat out wrong, again. Many people are trading in Honda Civics, and Toyota Camry and other cars that cost 20-30k to upgrade to a $50k Model 3.
I am not sure you have lived in SF bayarea the largest market of Tesla. a lot of people have Prius, Camry Civics as beatup 3rd or 4th car. there are various reasons for people having those cars. . your data lacking that point multi vehicle households. SUVs are almost every home now.
I am not sure you have lived in SF bayarea the largest market of Tesla. a lot of people have Prius, Camry Civics as beatup 3rd or 4th car. there are various reasons for people having those cars. . your data lacking that point multi vehicle households. SUVs are almost every home now.
You sure love to cherry pick, don't you? You love to make edge cases and represent them as the majority, usually with no evidence to backup the claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Notwithstanding its initial flaws, Tesla owners raved about their cars. This is something of a paradox found repeatedly in the Bloomberg survey—many of those owners who dealt with defects in their new Model 3 gave the electric sedan high overall marks for satisfaction. They gave their highest ratings to its design, performance, and some of the unusual software features that help define Tesla’s brand. A nearly unanimous 99.6% of respondents said the Model 3 is a pleasure to drive, the kind of consensus rarely reached by any consumer product.
In the Bloomberg survey, almost 99% of Model 3 owners said they would recommend one to their friends or family—and many of them already have. In follow-up calls with a dozen survey respondents, every owner they talked to described taking friends or family members on test drives. So the idea that this car which has higher customer satisfaction numbers than an iPhone was bought just to replace a spare car is fucking preposterous.
Originally Posted by SSFTSX
just the tires used in 50K Cyber trucks will some where $60m to $80m.
Do you feel you have to say something no matter how stupid it is? Even if true it's completely unrelated. Also Tesla's tire costs should be comparable to Fords. Capex is the cost of the equipment to build the vehicle, not vehicle parts and materials. If Tesla made 50K/yr how much machinery would they need to purchase and assemble, and much would that cost. How much does it cost to build the machine that builds the machine. According to Sandy Munro -who is a world leader and is paid millions by vehicle manufacturers to tear down machines, figure out how they're built, how much they cost, how they could be built better- the Cybertruck will require 80% less capex to get production up and running compared to an F150. Tesla's "overpriced talent" designed a powerful vehicle that changes the game in automotive production, and saves the company hundreds of millions in capex compared to their competitors.
Chinese subsidy is only $3700 for electric car now. 15% tarrif and $3700 subsidy is not big deal in $50K car. new factory cost enormously interms of fixed cost. It is far cheaper to scale up production in US to make product cheaper for US/Canadian consumers.
Electric cars suppose to have lesser parts to build so less need for local sourcing. and less spare parts to replace during life cycle so less need to make local suppliers happy. high end Toyota-Lexus are built in Japan and exported globally.
The purchase tax exemption could reduce the price of the locally-made Model 3 by 10 percent. The purchase tax exemption is usually only offered to cars made by China-based automakers. Tesla will be the first foreign car manufacturer to receive the privilege from the Chinese government.
The lack of a tariff and purchase tax exemption is about a 25% difference, not including the $3700 EV subsidy.
GF3 in China's was built for approximately 65% less per unit of manufacturing capacity than had been the Model 3 production system in the US., so wrong again. China gave them loans at below benchmark rates
where you get this idea plant is at maximum?. GM and Toyota ran that plant more than a decade ago. robotics manufacturing technology has far advanced and electric vehicles have far less parts to handle in supply chain management.
GM and Toyota like all other legacy automakers make much less in house and get most of their parts from 3rd parties. Tesla tries to be as vertically integrated as possible so more things are made in house which requires more space in their factory compared to legacy companies.
they may have delivered globally. but you cannot ignore the fact the local market is no longer sustainable and neither is global market. California is the perfect place for electric vehicles interms of Weather, gas prices, income levels and the quantity of software engineers who like to play with that giant screen on Tesla.
yeah, no. that article was bullshit, your premise is bullshit.
I am well aware of it. Germany is built around Mittelstand. that's why slightly big and complex project. they simply comes short in management and technical skills.
French designer built product that is priced like economy car with battery lease to make it even more affordable.. they not competing yet in higher priced vehicles or randomly electric vehicle plants. there whole host of issues behind it that's beyond scope of this discussion.
None of that disproves the fact that no EV pound for pound is more efficient than Tesla, and no ones batteries are as good either. Tesla's are expected to further their battery lead in energy density by at least 20% in the next couple years, while reducing costs, and improving production speed at the same time. Renault and all the other legacy automakers will continue to be years behind Tesla, Tesla isn't standing still.
During a recent interview with Tesla owner-enthusiast Sean Mitchell, Detroit veteran Sandy Munro of Munro and Associates mentioned that among the Model 3’s unique components, its “Superbottle” is one of the most innovative. Combining two pumps, one heat exchanger, and one coolant valve in one cleverly-designed bottle, the Model 3’s cooling system is arguably the most unique in the auto industry.
The traditional automotive industry is all about suppliers and outsourcing the different components of a vehicle to different companies. This results in cars having redundant components. The Chevy Bolt, for example, has three cooling systems: one for its battery pack, one for its cabin, and one for its electronics. This is not the case with the Model 3, as the fondly-named Superbottle handles the entire cooling system of the whole vehicle — battery pack, cabin, and electronics included.
The Superbottle has garnered much recognition even among noted gearheads such as Jalopnik‘s David Tracy, who used to design automotive cooling systems himself. Munro, for his part, noted that the Superbottle actually gives several advantages for Tesla, such as increased modularity and packaging space, potential weight savings, reduced final assembly costs, and reduced final assembly time, to name a few. For Munro, the novel cooling system is the very definition of Tesla’s vertical integration.
The Superbottle. (Credit: Hyperchange TV/YouTube)
“The Superbottle is a great example of how the normal automotive companies don’t work together, and Tesla does. That Superbottle crosses many lines that you can’t cross here (in Detroit). If I’m in charge of engine cooling or battery cooling, I don’t want nothing to do with cooling the cabin. And yet, we’ve got the motor cooling, the battery cooling, and electronics, all going through one little bottle that’s got some clever little ball valves that open and close to make sure that everything’s getting heated or everything’s being cooled to where it needs to be. We all thought that was the best thing in the whole damn car,” Munro fondly commented.
Discussing the Superbottle further, Munro mentioned how the cooling system is fitted with a bottle avatar dressed as a superhero. According to the auto veteran, this funny little character is a notable representation of just how different Tesla is as a car maker, as such fun Easter Eggs in a vehicle will never be allowed in traditional automakers. Together with the vertical integration that is showcased in the Superbottle, Tesla’s apparent support for creativity among its engineers and designers is something that is simply not present in traditional automakers today.
In a recent video, Tesla investor-enthusiast Galileo Russell of HyperChange TV noted that innovations such as the Superbottle could open the doors for the electric car maker’s other products. It is most certain that the Superbottle will end up in the Model Y, and variations of it would likely be used in other vehicles such as the Pickup Truck, the Semi, and the next-gen Roadster. Perhaps, Russell mused, Tesla’s Superbottle solution could even be utilized on the company’s upcoming HVAC products, which Elon Musk hinted at during his extensive podcast with Joe Rogan last year.
Tesla catches a lot of flak due to the fact that the company and its CEO, Elon Musk, seems unwaveringly intent on reinventing the wheel. With each new vehicle that it introduces, Tesla steps farther and farther away from traditional automakers. This is represented by the fact that the company is currently developing a literal giant casting machine for its Model Y crossover, which is expected to reduce the number of parts for the vehicle. And this is just the tip of the iceberg, as Tesla is also developing its custom Silicon for its full self-driving projects. It is then no surprise that when Sandy Munro was discussing how traditional automakers are playing catchup to Tesla in the EV market, he noted that “really and truly, all the domestics (automakers such as Ford and GM) are way behind.”
I can only laugh at this links. Tesla home market deliveries will be far below last year regardless of registeration or delivery times. you cannot change the fact.
Chinese made Tesla Model 3 cost alteast $43K.
I am sure if Tesla could ramp up production in US to much higher level. it would have lower the price for US and global consumers. and market would have been much larger not only for Model 3 but higher priced Model X/S.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/teslas-...ad-11577714572 A made-in-China Model 3 costs 355,800 yuan ($50,844), but a buyer is eligible for a subsidy of about 25,000 yuan and is exempt from a 10% purchase tax. An imported Model 3, which has a longer range, costs 439,900 yuan ($62,861), compared with $39,990 for the model in the U.S. Buyers in the U.S. are eligible for various incentives including $1,875 federal tax credit.
I can only laugh at this links. Tesla home market deliveries will be far below last year regardless of registeration or delivery times. you cannot change the fact.
I can only laugh at the fact that you made an incorrect statement with no evidence. Again.
Tesla US sales in 2018: 191,627
Tesla US sales in 2019: 192,250
Chinese made Tesla Model 3 cost alteast $43K.
I am sure if Tesla could ramp up production in US to much higher level. it would have lower the price for US and global consumers. and market would have been much larger not only for Model 3 but higher priced Model X/S.
$43k in China is CHEAP.. do you know how much a BMW 318/320 cost in China?
A Detailed Look At How Tesla's Battery Costs Impact Its Gross MarginsTAKEAWAY
While battery costs are viewed as a key cost driver for electric vehicles, prices have been declining rapidly driven by improving technology and higher volumes.
We estimate that Tesla's battery costs have declined from $230 per kilowatt hour (kWh) in 2016 to $127 in 2019.
As a percentage of a Tesla vehicle's average selling price, battery costs have declined from 19.4% to 15% in the same period, per our estimates.
Below, we take a closer look at how battery costs impact Tesla and its gross margins. You can also modify assumptions for Tesla's battery prices and capacity to view the impact on its margins.
We estimate that Battery costs for Tesla vehicles have declined from around $230 per kWh in 2016 to $127 in 2019
According to Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF), the industry average battery costs (cell + packaging) have declined from $288 to $176 between 2016 and 2018.
We estimate that Tesla's battery costs are about 20% below the industry average, driven by the company's higher volumes and battery chemistry.
Tesla's Battery Costs As % Vehicle Price have dropped from 19.4% in 2016 to 15% in 2019E.
The average selling price for Tesla vehicles has declined from 83k in 2016 to an estimated $59k in 2019E, due to a higher mix of lower-cost Model 3 vehicles
Battery costs per vehicle have fallen from $16k to $9k in the same period.
How sensitive are Tesla's Gross Margins to its Battery Costs
Tesla's Automotive Gross margins have declined from 24.5% in 2016 to 23.4% in 2018 and we expect them to decline to 20.5% in 2019, although they could improve to 23% in 2020.
^This is why other EVs are struggling to compete, Tesla batteries are better and 20% cheaper. Also their drivetrain is more efficient which allows them to get more range out of the same size battery. This graph perfectly illustrates Tesla's lead
ssftsx, you know french, right? What does etron mean in french?
^This is why other EVs are struggling to compete, Tesla batteries are better and 20% cheaper.......
ssftsx, you know french, right? What does etron mean in french?
Looks like Tesla passed VW as the automaker with second largest market capitalization. VW stood over $100.xx billion, but with the current shares of Tesla approaching $580, that may have already happened. Of course it’s speculation.
Tesla gets some official loopholes around stupid laws to sell direct in Michigan
Tesla has reached a settlement with the state of Michigan to allow its direct sale and service of vehicles through some official loopholes around the stupid laws that were preventing them from operating in the market. A change to the law in 2014 prohibited direct sales from automakers, which is blocking Tesla from obtaining a dealership license and selling cars in the state.After trying to change things at the legislative level in 2016, Tesla filed a lawsuit against the state, claiming that the ban on direct sales violates commerce laws, and that it was pushed by car dealers and GM in an attempt to block the electric automaker at the last hour.
It has since been a long legal process, during which Tesla tried to prove that lawmakers were influenced by car dealers to specifically prevent Tesla to sell vehicles direct to consumers in the state.
Similar situations happened in other states where they used older laws meant to protect franchise car dealers from direct competition with their own automakers, but Tesla never used car dealers and therefore cannot unfairly compete with them. Yet, as an automaker, Tesla was still not allowed to operate its own stores and service centers in the state – leading to the lawsuit. The legal battle over the issue is now coming to an end. As we shared earlier this week, local media in Michigan have been reporting that Tesla reached an agreement with the state to settle the lawsuit. Today, we get to see the joint motion for dismissal and it reveals how they are going to allow Tesla to sell and service directly to costumers in Michigan. In short, they are making some loopholes around the existing laws.
For example, when it comes to service, Tesla technically can’t service its vehicles directly in the state, but they will be allowed to do it under a wholly-owned subsidiary. https://electrek.co/2020/01/23/tesla...sale-michigan/
There are probably several other manufacturers that do this too, but when I was at Toyota I was surprised to see RAV4 EV battery packs have Tesla logos on the crates. Their batteries certainly are ahead of the pack.
TOKYO/SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Tesla Inc’s stock surged 20% on Monday, taking its rise since early June to over 300%, fueled by a quarterly profit at Panasonic’s battery business with the U.S. car maker and an investor report predicting its shares would rise more than ten-fold by 2024.
Shares of Tesla have rallied over 30% since the car maker run by Chief Executive Elon Musk posted its second consecutive quarterly profit last Wednesday, which was viewed as a milestone for the company competing against established heavyweights including General Motors Co and BMW.
The stock on Monday was on track for its largest one-day gain since October after Panasonic Corp reported the first quarterly profit in its U.S. battery business with Tesla, which followed years of production troubles and delays.
That added to recent gains driven by Tesla’s better-than expected financial results and ramped up production at its new car factory in Shanghai.
“We are catching up as Tesla is quickly expanding production,” Panasonic Chief Financial Officer Hirokazu Umeda told an earnings briefing, referring to battery cell production.
“Higher production volume is helping to push down materials costs and erase losses.”
Musk last April said that battery production had become a constraint on output of Tesla’s Model 3 sedans.
Adding to jubilance around Tesla, investment management firm Ark Invest, in a note dated Jan. 31, said it expects the company’s stock to hit $7,000 by 2024, compared to its current price of $754. It based that prediction in part on Tesla launching a fleet of profitable “robotaxi” autonomous cars.
Musk told investors last April that robotaxis with no human drivers would be available in some U.S. markets in 2020, a claim met with skepticism by experts who said the company’s technology was nowhere near ready.
Tesla’s recent rally has pummeled short sellers. Almost $16 billion worth of Tesla’s shares are currently short sold, making the company the most shorted on Wall Street, according to S3 Partners, a financial analytics firm.
Panasonic first invested in Tesla in 2010 and announced its partnership in building the U.S. firm’s Gigafactory plant in Nevada in 2014 as part of its strategic shift from low-margin consumer electronics to automotive components.
But as its $1.6 billion Gigafactory investment failed to produce solid returns, Panasonic has grown cautious about its battery business with Tesla.
It chose not to build a new battery plant for Tesla in China, ceding its battery cell monogamy as Tesla entered into a partnership with South Korea’s LG Chem Ltd and China’s CATL.
“We will focus on demand at Gigafactory for Model 3 and Model Y,” Umeda said.
Panasonic is turning to Toyota Motor Corp for battery partnership, setting up a joint venture for electric vehicle (EV) batteries in April.
Panasonic said operating profit for the October-December quarter rose 3% to 100.4 billion yen ($915 million), beating analysts’ estimates by 49%, thanks to the improvement at the Tesla battery business as well as cost cuts.
It maintained its profit forecast for the year through March at 300 billion yen, above an average estimate of 295.14 billion yen by 20 analysts.
Michellin and Continental supply most of tires to Tesla. Since Tesla vehicles tires are on average larger in size and need soon replacement. I better invest in tire manufacturer.
for example Michellin net income is half of operating income. its a operating profit not net profit for one quarter. It is all adding to hype. https://www.michelin.com/en/finance/...s/key-figures/
Michellin and Continental supply most of tires to Tesla. Since Tesla vehicles tires are on average larger in size and need soon replacement. I better invest in tire manufacturer.
for example Michellin net income is half of operating income. its a operating profit not net profit for one quarter. It is all adding to hype. https://www.michelin.com/en/finance/...s/key-figures/
This guy is a textbook example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
I think he’s trying to say that the tires will not be comfortable since the pressure is high. I believe the high pressure reduces the rolling friction and improves efficiency.
I think he’s trying to say that the tires will not be comfortable since the pressure is high. I believe the high pressure reduces the rolling friction and improves efficiency.
I thought he's saying that the tires will wear out faster, and therefore you should invest in Michelin stock.
Tesla’s unmistakable EV lead strongly acknowledged by Lucid and VW CEOs
Lucid Motors and Volkswagen Auto Group CEOs Peter Rawlinson and Herbert Diess recently expressed their support towards Tesla and Elon Musk. The two automotive executives took particular note of Tesla’s growing lead in the electric car segment.
“There’s a recognition that Tesla is in a preeminent position in terms of EV technology,” Lucid Motors CEO Peter Rawlinson said at the BloombergNEFSummit. Rawlinson stated that Tesla’s lead in the EV sector is actually growing since the company continues to improve its already industry-leading products.
“They’re even further ahead than has been reported, and I think the gap is widening, not closing,” Rawlinson added.
the cold tire pressure on Tesla Model S is 45psi. Acura TSX is 32psi. Acura RDX is 33psi.
The Tesla Model S gets free over the air updates that adds new features, improves performance, range, capabilities, and safety. The Acura TSX doesn't get free over the air updates that adds new features, improves performance, range, capabilities, and safety. The Acura RDX doesn't get free over the air updates that adds new features, improves performance, range, capabilities, and safety.
The Tesla Model S gets free over the air updates that adds new features, improves performance, range, capabilities, and safety. The Acura TSX doesn't get free over the air updates that adds new features, improves performance, range, capabilities, and safety. The Acura RDX doesn't get free over the air updates that adds new features, improves performance, range, capabilities, and safety.
Tesla Model S eat tires 3 times the speed of Acura TSX. if you hit a curb or pot hole hard. good luck fixing with alignment shop.
Model S improve safety not decreasing insurance rates. Both Model S and Model 3 has wide turn radius. weight and price further make expensive registeration renewal.
He has this weird obsession with insignificant facts, he prizes turning radius over everything else. He must think that the Honda e is going to be the best selling car of all time.
01-16-2020, 07:26 AM
.
Credit: wheelsjoint.com Tesla reported that it delivered 145,846 Model 3s in 2018 after its mass production phase for the vehicle began. But 2019 would prove to be the biggest year for Tesla yet. They delivered 92,550 Model 3s in 2019 Q4 alone or 63% of what they delivered in the previous year as a whole.
