Tesla: Sales, Marketing, and Financial News

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Old 08-12-2021 | 10:24 AM
  #2121  
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That's not gonna convert people to EVs, and if it does, it's not Tesla's that they're buying.
Old 08-12-2021 | 03:10 PM
  #2122  
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LOL def not a Ford since the dealers are adding $10000 markups to them
Old 08-12-2021 | 03:41 PM
  #2123  
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So ford's $10000 is $10000 and Tesla's $10,000 is .... $100 increase?

But dealer mark up is bad!!! When it goes to Elon's pocket? fucking great!


Tesla has increased the price of the base Model S by another $5,000 – making it a $10,000 base price increase in less than a month.



Since the beginning of the year, we have been covering a seemingly continuous series of price increases throughout Tesla’s vehicle lineup.

However, it has particularly affected Model 3 and Model Y vehicles since Tesla hasn’t been delivering Model S and Model X as the updated versions of the new electric vehicles were delayed.

In June, Tesla finally started deliveries of the new Model S – starting with the new Plaid top performance version, which also saw a $10,000 price increase last month.

A few weeks later, as Tesla started delivering the new base version of the Model S, Model S Long Range, Tesla increased the price of the vehicle by $5,000.

Today, Tesla updated its online configurator and again increased the price by $5,000:
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Old 08-12-2021 | 04:00 PM
  #2124  
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Originally Posted by Comfy
Hoo boy, read the news that the proposed EV tax credit is only available for those whose annual income is less than $100k. Shucks.
I guess that eliminates most of the Acurazine members from getting the credit, right….? ….

The other requirement is that the vehicle cost should be less than $40k, which is good in fact as it incentivizes manufacturers to make cheaper cars for the public and not to indirectly benefit by raising prices.
Where did you read this? I read that it was based on the car cost not the income level.
Old 08-12-2021 | 04:24 PM
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Both.

But i think it is only going to be worse.. not better... so i dont know what Comfy is so happy about

How many EVs cost 40k or less? Oh yah i dont think Tesla's "Potential" saving count as part of the MSRP

Originally Posted by SamDoe1
Where did you read this? I read that it was based on the car cost not the income level.
Changes to the tax deductions for people buying EVs are expected to be included. Right now, there is a federal tax credit of $7,500 for consumers buying an EV, but the credit isn’t available if an auto maker has sold more than 200,000 EVs. That cap affects General Motors (ticker: GM) and Tesla (TSLA).

As investors had expected, the budget reconciliation bill removed the 200,000-vehicle cap in what looked like a win for the industry. But it was too soon to celebrate. On Wednesday, the Senate passed an amendment that grants the $7,500 credit only for EVs that cost less than $40,000, and only if the buyer earns less than $100,000 a year.

The muted reaction to potentially bad news is a sign that investors and analysts believe negotiations over the credit are just beginning. And Nebraska Sen. Deb Fischer’s amendment is nonbinding. It doesn’t have to be adopted.

Last edited by oonowindoo; 08-12-2021 at 04:26 PM.
Old 08-12-2021 | 06:02 PM
  #2126  
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo
Both.

But i think it is only going to be worse.. not better... so i dont know what Comfy is so happy about

How many EVs cost 40k or less? Oh yah i dont think Tesla's "Potential" saving count as part of the MSRP
Did I sound happy in that post ….????
The only way out for Tesla is the $25k model right before the bill becomes law.
Old 08-12-2021 | 06:30 PM
  #2127  
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i am sureeee if Elon tries hard enough, he could find more "potential savings" to make it a "$25k" Model...



Happiness of being part of the Tesla Cult ? $1000 saving
Because you have to watch your speed when driving long distance to maximize your range could save your life = $5000 saving
Knowing that next week someone else will pay $5000 more than you did today = Priceless saving
Old 08-13-2021 | 12:44 AM
  #2128  
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Old 08-13-2021 | 09:36 AM
  #2129  
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A prelude to supercharger sharing across all EVs.
It would be better if they can increase the numbers of superchargers by at least three fold before they allow everyone to use it. Otherwise it could be a disaster during those long weekend trips.

Last edited by Comfy; 08-13-2021 at 09:38 AM.
Old 08-13-2021 | 10:38 AM
  #2130  
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Why? Tesla has been about 80% of the US EV sales for years, it's going to be that many more cars, and those cars can still use EA, Chargepoint, EVgo networks too
Old 08-13-2021 | 05:09 PM
  #2131  
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Originally Posted by #1 STUNNA
Why? Tesla has been about 80% of the US EV sales for years, it's going to be that many more cars, and those cars can still use EA, Chargepoint, EVgo networks too
Because superchargers are the only one that reliably work at all places, regardless.
Old 08-13-2021 | 05:24 PM
  #2132  
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Tesla short seller finally gives up

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tsla...et-no-revival/

Tesla critic abandons bet against TSLA, with no plans to revive it

Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA) has a lot of critics, and some of them tend to be aggressive at times. One of these is Carson Block, which The New York Times describes as a “volatile and sometimes venomous short-seller” who runs Muddy Waters Capital. Block had taken a position against Tesla in the past, but in a shareholder letter, the short-seller admitted that his bets against the Elon Musk-led EV company had been abandoned.

Block’s letter to shareholders is pretty rare on its own, being the first of its kind since he started a hedge fund in 2015. Block’s letter reportedly stated that Elon Musk’s “narcissism” was a cause for his disdain, and it encouraged his beliefs that Tesla’s business would crater. He admitted, however, that he underestimated the Tesla CEO’s ability to raise capital and captivate shareholders.



As a result, Block noted that Muddy Waters’ bet against Tesla had been sent to “heaven,” and there are currently no plans to revive it. “The market cap, the luster, the élan of Elon, is still there,” Block wrote.

“Tesla shorts have focused on Tesla’s lack of scale to compete in EVs with GM, Ford, VW, etc. They are correct in that lack of scale would have been the death of Tesla. But they were looking at the wrong scale. Tesla is here not because it has scale in terms of manufacturing base or unit sales. It has scale because of its capital base,” he added.

In a way, Block’s argument about Tesla’s scale still seems a bit short-sighted, especially if one were to look at the growing electric vehicle market today. The Tesla critic cites the scale of companies like GM and Ford, but much of these companies’ output and size is related to their internal combustion vehicle production. In the EV sphere, which is growing as the market for ICE cars declines, Tesla’s scale is no joke. In terms of key resources for EV production like batteries alone, it is Tesla that has the scale, not legacy automakers.

Nevertheless, Block has admitted that Tesla should be able to raise many billions before its cap becomes sub-scale. “One could look at Tesla’s market cap and think it’s fragile — that reality will shatter it. However, Tesla should be able to raise many billions before its cap becomes sub-scale — and keep in mind that Tesla equity raises tend to push the stock higher. (Those “dumb money” investors actually knew that capital base scale is what mattered all along.)” Block wrote.



Old 08-14-2021 | 09:26 AM
  #2133  
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BERLIN — Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk said Friday that he hopes to start producing cars at its new factory outside Berlin in October.

The U.S. company had originally planned to begin manufacturing its electric cars at the “Gigafactory” in Gruenheide, east of the German capital, in July.

But legal challenges and problems getting official permits have delayed the project.

"We’re looking forward to hopefully getting the approval to make the first cars, maybe in October if we’re fortunate,” Musk said during a visit to the site Friday.

Armin Laschet, the center-right Union bloc's candidate to succeed Angela Merkel as chancellor in next month's election, thanked Musk for his investment in Germany.

Laschet suggested German laws should be changed to make it harder for people not directly affected by the factory's construction to file legal complaints against it, German news agency DPA reports. The project has been plagued with legal challenges and red tape.

In the latest controversy surrounding the project, victims of communism in East Germany on Thursday criticized the decision to grant Tesla a subsidy of 8.1 million euros (almost $10 million) from a trust fund managing what's left of the communist regime's fortune.

German media reported that the state of Brandenburg is allocating the funds to pay for infrastructure costs related to the Tesla Gigafactory.

UOKG, an association representing victims of communism in East Germany, said it welcomed the construction of the factory but questioned “why the state government of Brandenburg is helping the third-richest man in the world” with money seized from former regime entities.

The group's chairman, Dieter Dombrowski, said the money could also have gone toward helping build schools, elderly care homes, daycare centers for children or memorials for victims of the communist dictatorship. He noted that Friday marks the 60th anniversary of the day when construction began on the Berlin Wall, where dozens of fleeing East Germans were killed until 1989.

Katharina Slanina of the opposition Left party in Brandenburg state likewise criticized the decision.

“It's not right that multi-billionaire Musk should put the risks and side effects of his project onto the public's shoulders, but keep all the profits for himself," she said. Her party is effectively the successor to East Germany's Socialist Unity Party.

Tesla didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.
Elon Musk predicts Tesla production in Germany 'maybe in October' (autoblog.com)
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Old 08-14-2021 | 09:52 AM
  #2134  
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I expect my next car to be a model Y, but I will definitely wait for the Texas factory to start cranking them out with the mega casts and the new batteries, then give them a year to shake out production shortcomings.
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Old 08-14-2021 | 12:25 PM
  #2135  
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The most advanced EV factory in the world….. well, until the Giga Texas goes live.
Old 08-16-2021 | 08:32 AM
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DETROIT — The U.S. government has opened a formal investigation into Tesla's Autopilot partially automated driving system, saying it has trouble detecting parked emergency vehicles.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration announced the action Monday in a posting on its website.

The agency says it has identified 11 crashes since 2018 in which Teslas on Autopilot or Traffic Aware Cruise Control have hit vehicles with flashing lights, flares, an illuminated arrow board or cones warning of hazards.

The investigation covers the Models Y, X, S and 3 from the 2014 through 2021 model years.

Autopilot has frequently been misused by Tesla drivers, who have been caught driving drunk or even riding in the back seat while a car rolled down a California highway.

The agency has sent investigative teams to 31 crashes involving partially automated driver assist systems since June of 2016. Such systems can keep a vehicle centered in its lane and a safe distance from vehicles in front of it. Of those crashes, 25 involved Tesla Autopilot in which 10 deaths were reported, according to data released by the agency.

Tesla and other manufacturers warn that drivers using the systems must be ready to intervene at all times. Teslas using the system have crashed into semis crossing in front of them, stopped emergency vehicles and a roadway barrier.

A message was left early Monday seeking comment from Tesla, which has disbanded its media relations office.

In June NHTSA ordered all automakers to report any crashes involving fully autonomous vehicles or partially automated driver assist systems.

The measures show the agency has started to take a tougher stance on automated vehicle safety than in the past. It has been reluctant to issue any regulations of the new technology for fear of hampering adoption of the potentially life-saving systems.
NHTSA opens formal probe of Tesla Autopilot for hitting parked vehicles (autoblog.com)
Old 08-16-2021 | 03:09 PM
  #2137  
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It is not Tesla's fault. It is the fault of those parked cars, they should not have parked there! If they didnt park there, Tesla would have never hit them...
Old 08-16-2021 | 06:37 PM
  #2138  
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Old 08-16-2021 | 07:01 PM
  #2139  
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Um... apparently there should have been A LOT more for him to say

Instead of having a DD or call a Uber when you are drunk, let's just use Autopilot.... What could possibly go wrong??

When your computer, your phone makes a mistake, restart and move on. When FSD or Auto Pilot makes a mistake and you are not paying attention? or in these cases when you CANNOT pay attention because you are drunk AF?

New York (CNN Business)Federal safety regulators are investigating at least 11 accidents involving Tesla cars using Autopilot or other self-driving features that crashed into emergency vehicles when coming upon the scene of an earlier crash.

The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration said seven of these accidents resulted 17 injuries and one death.
All of the Teslas in question had the self-driving Autopilot feature or the traffic-aware cruise control engaged as they approached the crashes, the NHTSA said.Tesla (TSLA) stock fell 5% in morning trading following news of the probe.The accidents under investigation occurred between January 22, 2018, and July 10, 2021, across nine different states. They took place mostly at night, and the post-accident scenes all included control measures like first responder vehicle lights, flares, an illuminated arrow board and road cones.Tesla did not immediately respond to a request for comment about the probe.
Gordon Johnson, an analyst and vocal critic of Tesla, wrote in a note to clients Monday that the issue isn't just about Autopilot users — but also other non-Tesla drivers on the road who could be injured by cars using the feature.

"NHTSA is zeroing in on a particular danger that Tesla creates for people outside the vehicle — ie, those who never agreed to be Autopilot 'guinea pigs,'" Johnson wrote. "Thus, to simply say 'Tesla drivers accept Autopilot's risks,' as has been used in the past, does not appear to be a defense here."

Self-driving options such as Tesla's Autopilot or more widely available adaptive cruise control, available on a wide range of automakers' vehicles, do a good job of slowing a vehicle down when the car in front is slowing down, said Sam Abuelsamid, an expert in self-driving vehicles and principal analyst at Guidehouse Insights.

The real problem he said is that many more Tesla owners assume their cars can, in fact, drive themselves than do drivers of other cars with automatic braking and other safety features. And the cues that a driver would see when approaching an accident site, such as road flares or flashing lights, make more sense to a human than they might to an auto drive system.

"When it works, which can be most of the time, it can be very good," said Abuelsamid, about Tesla's Autopilot feature. "But it can easily be confused by things that humans would have no problem with. Machine visions are not as adaptive as humans. And the problem is that all machine systems sometimes make silly errors."

Last edited by oonowindoo; 08-16-2021 at 07:09 PM.
Old 08-17-2021 | 07:54 PM
  #2140  
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So if they didn’t find anything wrong, then move on. If they found something, Tesla will simply send an OTA update to all cars.

No recalls amounting to billions of dollars as the Ford guy claims. LOL.
Old 08-18-2021 | 08:30 AM
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SAN FRANCISCO — Two U.S. senators on Wednesday pressed the Federal Trade Commission to probe Tesla, saying the company has misled consumers and endangered the public by marketing its driving automation systems as fully self-driving.

"Tesla and (CEO) Mr. (Elon) Musk’s repeated overstatements of their vehicle’s capabilities ... put Tesla drivers – and all of the traveling public – at risk of serious injury or death," Senate Democrats Richard Blumenthal and Edward Markey said in a letter to newly appointed FTC Chair Lina Khan.

"Tesla drivers listen to these claims and believe their vehicles are equipped to drive themselves – with potentially deadly consequences."

The letter, which came after the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration opened a probe into Tesla's Autopilot on Monday, added to pressure on Tesla.

Tesla did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Autopilot is a standard feature for Tesla cars and enables the vehicles to maintain distance from cars in front. Tesla sells its advanced driver assistant features such as lane changing and automated parking under the name Full Self-Driving (FSD) for $1,000, although the system does not make its vehicles fully autonomous.

Musk, who has nearly 60 million Twitter followers, uses the term FSD frequently, generally referring to the Tesla package of features, but many consumers take it to mean fully autonomous driving. Musk has touted how safe the technology is and promised that its vehicles would soon drive themselves, only to miss his own deadlines.

NHTSA said in June that since 2016 it has opened 30 investigations into Tesla crashes in which the agency suspects advanced driver assistance systems were in use.

The NHTSA in 2018 said in a letter to Tesla the company had made "misleading statements" about the safety of its Model 3 and had confused consumers. The agency referred the issue to the FTC to investigate whether Tesla’s statements constituted “unfair or deceptive acts or practices.”
Tesla Full Self-Driving overstatements, senators say, risk 'serious injury or death' (autoblog.com)
Old 08-18-2021 | 10:33 AM
  #2142  
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Originally Posted by Comfy
So if they didn’t find anything wrong, then move on. If they found something, Tesla will simply send an OTA update to all cars.

No recalls amounting to billions of dollars as the Ford guy claims. LOL.
Software development and deployment is not free. Also, finding wrongdoing brings about a lot of civil lawsuits from the families of the people that died. This can get expensive really fast.
Old 08-18-2021 | 02:04 PM
  #2143  
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Originally Posted by Comfy
So if they didn’t find anything wrong, then move on. If they found something, Tesla will simply send an OTA update to all cars.

No recalls amounting to billions of dollars as the Ford guy claims. LOL.
Oh yah.. you think if Tesla has OTA updates to fix all the issues, they would not have implemented by now?
Old 08-18-2021 | 10:50 PM
  #2144  
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo
Oh yah.. you think if Tesla has OTA updates to fix all the issues, they would not have implemented by now?
How do you know, that what they are investigating has already been fixed in all cars or not?
If it is, then this entire investigation will become a big automotive joke.

Old 08-18-2021 | 11:21 PM
  #2145  
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Originally Posted by Comfy
How do you know, that what they are investigating has already been fixed in all cars or not?
If it is, then this entire investigation will become a big automotive joke.
Is this a real question? Are you going to investigate for root cause if CAPA was already implemented and proven effective? You think these ppl are that stupid?

​​​​​​


​​​

Old 08-19-2021 | 12:54 AM
  #2146  
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Old 08-19-2021 | 06:43 AM
  #2147  
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^ it's not the 99,999 times the car avoids it, it's that 100,000th time.
Old 08-19-2021 | 06:44 AM
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Old 08-19-2021 | 08:17 AM
  #2149  
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Whole Mars is a POS shill
Old 08-19-2021 | 11:27 AM
  #2150  
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Originally Posted by Comfy
How do you know, that what they are investigating has already been fixed in all cars or not?
If it is, then this entire investigation will become a big automotive joke.
They cannot fix a false premise for what a product can do via a software update.

Originally Posted by kurtatx
Whole Mars is a POS shill
Whole Mars is the OAN of the Tesla world and Munro is the MyPillow guy.
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Old 08-19-2021 | 11:58 AM
  #2151  
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From what I've read, the crashes have been happening at night with the emergency lights flashing. Neither of which are on display in that silly video. So what's their point again?
Old 08-19-2021 | 03:42 PM
  #2152  
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cuz in their world, everything is black and white, situational awareness is not important... there is no variables and everything is predicable that can be put it in a computer.

If only...
Old 08-19-2021 | 04:03 PM
  #2153  
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Nice try?



Old 08-19-2021 | 07:30 PM
  #2154  
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Originally Posted by Mizouse
Nice try?


That’s a hard pass since apparently Tesla requires pressure on the wheel periodically to ensure autopilot continues.
Old 08-19-2021 | 10:07 PM
  #2155  
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Originally Posted by comfy
that’s a hard pass since apparently tesla requires pressure on the wheel periodically to ensure autopilot continues.
then it's not full self driving!
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Old 08-20-2021 | 09:10 AM
  #2156  
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
then it's not full self driving!
only because of legal restrictions.
From the AI talk yesterday I got the impression that they are working on the next version to be released next year along with Cybertruck and that’ll be level 4 autonomy.
Old 08-20-2021 | 09:16 AM
  #2157  
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The hardware in the current lineup cannot support L4 autonomy.
Old 08-20-2021 | 10:43 AM
  #2158  
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You mean the cameras or chips?

Elon also said that they haven’t even reached the limits of the current set up. So there’s way more to go before hardware is a limitation.
Old 08-20-2021 | 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Comfy
You mean the cameras or chips?

Elon also said that they haven’t even reached the limits of the current set up. So there’s way more to go before hardware is a limitation.
This goes back to the redundancy conversation from a few weeks back.

The key difference between Level 3 and Level 4 automation is that Level 4 vehicles can intervene if things go wrong or there is a system failure. In this sense, these cars do not require human interaction in most circumstances. However, a human still has the option to manually override.Level 4 vehicles can operate in self-driving mode. But until legislation and infrastructure evolves, they can only do so within a limited area (usually an urban environment where top speeds reach an average of 30mph). This is known as geofencing. As such, most Level 4 vehicles in existence are geared toward ridesharing.
Source: https://www.synopsys.com/automotive/...ng-levels.html

It's been proven that a Tesla that relies on only cameras cannot continue operating in self driving mode. If a camera fails, the system throws errors and turns off. A level 4 capable system wouldn't do that.

And before you say it, it's not as simple as a software patch. At best, they could maybe manage level 3 with the current hardware.
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Old 08-20-2021 | 11:28 AM
  #2160  
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Originally Posted by Comfy
Elon also said...
You can stop right at that point in the sentence. If listening to Elon Musk engage in his standard marketing puffery is the extent of your knowledge and research on the subject, you have no business whatsoever arguing with people on this board who actually live and work in engineering environments.
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