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Old 01-15-2022, 12:58 AM
  #121  
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^^^^^

Porsche's method is to recover the exhaust gas energy to be used to power the intake E-turbos.

Otherwise, if Porsche just uses the electrical system to power the intake E-turbos, it needs to have an oversized alternator to energize the electrical system. Since this oversized alternator is driven by the internal combustion engine, it will put extra load on the engine and inadvertently rob the engine of usable output power.

Old 01-15-2022, 02:08 PM
  #122  
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The compressor still needs to be run when there's low gas flow through the exhaust side, that's the whole point of this so running those turbines when there's no or low gas flow seems silly to me. Not to mention the additional weight and stuff of a generator, wiring, electronics, etc would probably offset the benefits of this in terms of efficiency. A temporary load on an immensely powerful engine doesn't seem like a bad thing, especially when that load is being applied to generate even more power.

Who knows though, I'm sure they thought about all of this stuff. In the end, this is just a patent not a product so it may never actually see the light of day.
Old 02-09-2022, 10:57 AM
  #123  
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https://carbuzz.com/news/porsches-sy...e-of-the-guilt


Porsche is no stranger to electric vehicles. Its Taycan is an incredible feat of engineering, providing an emissions-free alternative that's just as characterful and engaging to drive as its gas-powered models. But that hasn't stopped the brand from exploring alternative avenues.

The development of synthetic fuel has the potential to prolong the life of internal combustion-engined vehicles, keeping beloved classics on the road, but also opens up new possibilities in the realm of motorsport. To that end, Porsche's synthetic fuel has since demonstrated its suitability for use in high-performance engines in the Porsche Mobil 1 Supercup. In every race of the 2021 season, all 911 GT3 Cup cars ran on the innovative fuel.

But now the Stuttgart-based company has trialed the synthetic alternative in road cars; a pair of 718 Cayman GT4 RS models showing off their dynamic capabilities in the Austrian town of Zell am See.

The GT4 RS models ran on a renewable fuel based on an advanced biofuel, says Porsche, which was made from food waste products. Produced using electricity generated by wind power, eFuels are impressively sustainable. Through electrolysis, water is broken down into its components (hydrogen and oxygen). The hydrogen is then processed with CO2 (extracted from the air) in order to produce e-methanol.

In the final step, referred to as the methanol-to-gasoline synthesis, it is turned into synthetic raw gasoline. This is then processed into a standard-compliant fuel that can be used in all gasoline engines.

From 2022, the plant (located in southern Chile) is expected to produce 34,000 gallons of synthetic fuel per year. Initially, the automaker will purchase this in full, using the eFuel in its motorsport activities. In the future, however, the brand will use synthetic fuel in its own combustion-engined models which, thankfully, includes classic cars.

Legendary rally driver Walter Rohrl remarked, "It's a great hope of mine that in the future I will be able to drive old cars without a bad conscience because I am running them on eFuels. Fuelling a 50-year-old car with eFuels - that's pure sustainability." While electric cars continue to grow in popularity, the majority of vehicles on the road are gas-powered. The introduction of synthetic fuel will drastically reduce CO2 emissions and allow enthusiasts to continue driving their classic cars, without resorting to a full electric conversion.

Michael Steiner, Porsche Board Member for R&D noted, "The huge number of vehicles on the world's roads - some 1.3 billion according to the latest figures - means that the transition to electric mobility is not happening fast enough to achieve the goals set out in the Paris Agreement. In addition, different regions of the world are adopting electric mobility at varying speeds, meaning vehicles with combustion engines will remain on the road for decades to come."
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Old 02-09-2022, 10:57 AM
  #124  
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Old 02-10-2022, 09:57 AM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by 00TL-P3.2
From the article..."Porsche is no stranger to electric vehicles".
You can say that again considering they had one in the early 1900s.
Hybrid Porsches

I remember Chrysler claiming they invented the mini-van, decades after the first mini-van was invented.

Last edited by Tech; 02-10-2022 at 10:04 AM.
Old 02-10-2022, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Tech
You can say that again considering they had one in the early 1900s.
Hybrid Porsches

I remember Chrysler claiming they invented the mini-van, decades after the first mini-van was invented.

Marketers gonna market.. they don't care about facts
Old 04-07-2022, 11:59 AM
  #127  
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https://www.topgear.com/car-news/fut...-fuels-company


We know Porsche has been looking into the use of eFuels for a while, and the company has now announced that it is investing $75million into a firm called HIF Global LLC. Among other things, HIF Global LLC is building the Haru Oni eFuel pilot plant in Punta Arenas, where large-scale production of a synthetic fuel is set to begin in mid-2022.

What’s more, Porsche says the fuel will be created sustainably using wind energy.

These synthetic fuels are electricity-based and allow for nearly-CO2-neutral running of combustion engines, with Porsche having tested them in everything from race cars to an old 993-gen 911.

“eFuels make an important contribution to climate protection and complement our electromobility in a meaningful way,” said Porsche board member Barbara Frenkel.

“By investing in industrial eFuel production, Porsche is further expanding its commitment to sustainable mobility. In total, our investment in the development and provision of this innovative technology amounts to more than $100million.”

Blimey – that’s a whole lot of cash. Interesting too, as this news comes just a couple of weeks after Audi told TG.com that synthetic fuels weren’t part of its long-term future
Old 02-16-2023, 01:51 PM
  #128  
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https://carbuzz.com/news/porsche-r-d...-tank-of-efuel


Porsche has openly admitted that it took only five seconds before R&D boss Michael Steiner decided to drift the Gentian Blue Porsche 911 fueled by eFuel on the day the company opened its first synthetic fuel production facility in Chile.

The facility, which is a pilot plant and is therefore relatively small, was to form the center around which Steiner was to drive a couple of celebratory laps in the 911 fueled by carbon-neutral, guilt-free go-juice. However, Steiner could not resist the opportunity to go a little sideways on the loose surface and became the first person to drift using eFuel from the Haru Oni facility.

According to a Porsche press release, "Steiner did what came naturally and gave the 911 a little gas, executing a neat drift round the back of the turbine. The revs of the engine rose, a little dust was kicked up, and a bit more history had been made..."

Porsche claims that moment summed up the excitement of the new pilot project, and we can't help but agree.

While governments around the world insist on legislation to make future cars electric, Porsche is seeking to rather find a way of making sure all existing and future combustion-powered cars burn in a carbon-neutral fashion today. The company likens the pilot project to the very first car Ferry Porsche produced - the 356. Porsche had said that he couldn't find the sports car he dreamed of, so he decided to build it himself in the same vein, Porsche couldn't find a synthetic fuel it liked, so it decided to develop its own.

For now, the fuel will be used in the Porsche Mobil 1 Supercup and at all Porsche Experience Centers globally, but by 2026, you may be able to fill up your own 911 with the stuff.

The basis behind the synthetic fuel is that it uses green hydrogen and carbon already present in the atmosphere and synthesizes it into hydrocarbons from which eFuel can be refined. Chile was selected as the home of the pilot plant due to its high winds all year round, providing a near-endless source of green energy.

Fuel produced at the facility is so green that even if the eFuel were to be shipped to Europe on an industrial scale, it would still be vastly more efficient than refining traditional gasoline elsewhere.

Porsche's investment in eFuel doesn't mean it won't pursue electromobility, however, and it is still planning an 80:20 split of BEVs to gas-powered cars by 2030. But, the new tech means that the 1.3 billion gas-powered vehicles on the roads today, including many classic and contemporary Porsches, will be safe - and crucially, eco-friendly - for decades to come.
Old 02-17-2023, 12:33 AM
  #129  
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But, the new tech means that the 1.3 billion gas-powered vehicles on the roads today, including many classic and contemporary Porsches, will be safe - and crucially, eco-friendly - for decades to come.
Interesting but from what I have seen, these developements never make it to the real world for the general public to use. This is similar to the diesel emulsion that the university in Köln came up with some years ago that would cut diesel use and Nox. Never heard of it again.

Glad I have a real 3.8 liter in my 911. I don't want to drive nothing that sounds like a stinkin sewing machine
Old 02-17-2023, 07:50 AM
  #130  
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We'll have to wait & see what comes of it.
Contrary to some 'popular' opinions here, EVs aren't going to be a lightswitch change for the world. You're going to have millions of ICE cars running for a long time.
Old 02-18-2023, 11:40 PM
  #131  
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I believe that plan has been nipped in the bud as Europeans have banned all sorts of ICE including e fuels from 2035. They are back to the drawing board now.
Old 02-20-2023, 11:38 AM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by 00TL-P3.2
Interesting concept.
Use the turbos to power a generator/battery store & an E-turbo for the intake side.
+1, yeah pretty innovative engineering solution for energy recovery and linearizing the power needed (low-RPM boost and high RPM lots of energy harvesting) for the compressor as well as eliminating turbolag

Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
^^^^^

Porsche's method is to recover the exhaust gas energy to be used to power the intake E-turbos.

Otherwise, if Porsche just uses the electrical system to power the intake E-turbos, it needs to have an oversized alternator to energize the electrical system. Since this oversized alternator is driven by the internal combustion engine, it will put extra load on the engine and inadvertently rob the engine of usable output power.
+1 and provide instant compressor boost at low-RPM for more torque.

Originally Posted by Tech
You can say that again considering they had one in the early 1900s.
Hybrid Porsches

I remember Chrysler claiming they invented the mini-van, decades after the first mini-van was invented.
Colleague working mechanical engineering on GM Chevy Nomad 2 which was the 1st modern mini-van. Unfortunately GM exec's decided on the Chevy Safari RWD van as they felt that had more appeal despite the majority of the customer marketing focus groups preferring the Nomad 2. Made it through design and development stages 1-3 (developing clay models, then static chassis then rolling chassis) at GM, but 4 (ordering tooling) was cancelled.

https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog...nivan-pioneer/

Old 02-21-2023, 02:47 PM
  #133  
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https://jalopnik.com/porsche-e-fuel-...xas-1850139658


Is Porsche on to something? Last June, the German automaker announced that it was investing $75 million and acquiring a 12.5-percent stake in HIF Global LLC, a Chilean company that is producing what’s called “e-fuel,” sustainably-produced gasoline and other conventional fuels produced unconventionally—using hydrogen produced via wind power and captured carbon dioxide (CO2). Fossil fuels for transportation appear doomed globally because of their major contribution to climate change, but HIF thinks it can produce viable replicas in a process that is “nearly” carbon neutral. When burned, e-fuels will still produce tailpipe emissions, of course.

HIF’s first plant, in partnership with ExxonMobil (which is providing its methanol-to-gasoline technology) and Siemens as well as Porsche, is in Chile. But it plans to expand in a big way into the U.S., with as many as a dozen locations.

Michael Steiner, a member of Porsche’s executive board for research and development, said in conjunction with the announcement, “We see ourselves as pioneers in e-fuels and want to drive the technology. This is one building block in our clear, overall sustainability strategy.”

One reason European companies are taking a keen interest in e-fuels is that they’re under study by the European Parliament as a possible loophole in the law banning sale of new internal-combustion vehicles by 2035. Manufacturers are being asked to demonstrate e-fuel’s feasibility by 2026. For that reason, e-fuel has a higher profile in Europe now than it does in the U.S., though that could change. The European law, which exempts fossil fuels in heavy trucks and buses, was finalized in mid-February.

The company’s pilot plant, Haru Oni, in Punta Arenas, Chile officially opened last December with the “ceremonial fueling” of a Porsche 911. The hydrogen is produced via electrolysis of water; a 3.4-megawatt Siemens Gamesa wind turbine co-located with the plant powers the process. Future upgrades will add a lot more wind power.

The location in southernmost Chile makes sense because the wind blows there 270 days a year. In the pilot phase, HIF plans to produce approximately 34,000 gallons of its e-gasoline and send it to Porsche for use in motorsports events such as the Porsche Mobil 1 Supercup, as well as at the company’s experience centers. But by the middle of the decade HIF says the plant will be capable of producing 14.5 million gallons of fuel annually. Two years later, the company says the plant will be up to its full capacity—145.3 million gallons of gasoline and methanol.

But Chile is just the start. HIF is also building a plant in Australia, in northwest Tasmania, producing enough fuel annually to decarbonize five million vehicles. And there’s a third one in Texas. Yes, Texas. The state may harbor some suspicion about fossil-fuel bans, but it is also home to one of the country’s best wind resources—the state’s High Plains region alone has more than 11,000 wind turbines.

The $6 billion plant will be built by the Houston-based U.S. arm of HIF near Bay City, Texas. The Peyton Creek Wind Farm, a huge 151-megawatt facility, opened in Matagorda County (where Bay City is located) in 2020. Bechtel is working on front-end engineering and design of the HIF plant, with construction to begin in the first quarter of 2024.

HIF says the Texas plant will produce its first e-fuel in 2027, initially 14,000 barrels per day, or 200 million gallons annually. It plans to make synthetic e-methanol, e-gasoline and e-liquified petroleum gas. Asked how the fuel will be used, HIF said, “The products can be sold anywhere in the U.S. and are considered ‘drop-in’ fuels because they can be used by existing infrastructure and engines. They have the highest value in places that also have economic rewards for low-carbon alternatives.”

HIF says the best such carbon market is in California, which like Europe has 2035 as a fossil fuel deadline for new cars. New York, New Jersey, Washington State and Massachusetts are following California’s lead, and other states are taking parts of California’s plans. In a statement to Jalopnik, HIF said its e-gasoline could keep the huge number of internal-combustion cars in those states running on near-carbon-neutral fuel after 2035. In a statement, the company said, “California’s prohibition on internal-combustion vehicles is on sale of new vehicles. E-fuels can be used by existing vehicles until they reach the end of their useful life, thereby providing a decarbonization pathway for existing infrastructure, a complement to electrification of new infrastructure.”

Porsche agrees with this. In a statement sent by research and development spokesperson Hermann-Josef Stappen, Porsche said, “There will remain a high demand for CO2-reduced fuels for the existing car fleet well beyond 2030. Besides in the existing car fleet, e-fuels can also be used in other transportation sectors such as aviation, shipping, trucks, heavy duty and construction machinery to reduce carbon emissions. Therefore, we see a huge potential for the use of e-fuels.”

California has a Low Carbon Fuel Standard (LCFS), “designed to decrease the carbon intensity of California’s transportation fuel pool and provide an increasing range of low-carbon and renewable alternatives, which reduce petroleum dependency and achieve air quality benefits.”

The LCFS offers credits for EV adoption, alternative jet fuel, carbon capture and sequestration, and “advanced technologies to achieve deep decarbonization in the transportation sector.” Does HIF’s products fit into this? It appears likely.

California Air Resources Board spokesman Dave Clegern told Jalopnik, “New fuels can apply to the program and do not require an amendment. Fuel producers must apply to the program and meet LCFS requirements, including delivering that fuel to California as a transportation fuel. For all types of fuel, staff must assess the fuel production pathway to understand the inputs and outputs to ensure accurate lifecycle assessment and carbon-intensity evaluation. New fuels can take longer to evaluate than fuels where we have established pathways.”

The biggest hurdle to widespread adoption of this fuel is its cost. It’s not surprising that Porsche is limiting use of the fuel in the initial stages, because it’s initially going to cost something like $44 a gallon. Scaling up production will reduce that—the parties hope—to something like $7.50 a gallon by mid-decade. That’s still hugely expensive, of course.

The supportive Germany-based eFuel Alliance is relatively optimistic. Ralf Diemer, managing director of the Alliance, told Jalopnik, “We will see plenty of large industrialized [e-fuel] production sites in the U.S. Therefore, I am pretty confident that in 2035 we will have reached competitive prices with fossil fuels. Maybe even in 2030.”

The International Council on Clean Transportation (ICCT) thinks that, even at scale, e-fuel will cost $9 per gallon in the U.S., and $12 a gallon in Europe. “We hope the road sector will be fully electrified—hopefully by 2035 for passenger vehicles and 2040 for heavy duty vehicles—and at that time it will only make sense to use e-fuels in aviation, and maybe maritime,” said Stephanie Searle, program director for fuels and the U.S. at ICCT. “It seems unlikely that the dwindling internal-combustion fleet beyond 2035 will be running on 100 percent e-fuels, given how expensive they are.”

The second U.S. HIF plant, with a location as-yet unannounced, will be designed to produce e-jet fuel. “We will know our cost better after we complete engineering,” the company said. Ultimately, HIF wants to build 12 e-fuel plants in the U.S.

Searle also said that the Environmental Protection Agency is taking comment on the possibility of expanding the Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS) to include e-fuels produced from electricity such as wind and solar if the CO2 used is captured from biomass combustion. By law, the RFS can only include biomass-based fuels.
Old 02-21-2023, 10:35 PM
  #134  
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I like technology when it makes real sense or we would all be driving Model Ts. But I also totally hate complexity for no real gains.

One example is the 991.2 water pump where they have a collar activated by a vacuum controlled by a change over valve so that the engine heats up faster upon initial start up. It is like a two-stage pump. All very nice when it works, but when it doesn't you have forum members wondering what is with my coolant temperature. What was wrong with simply driving the vehicle as we have always done? Luckily my 991.1 does not have that.




Old 02-22-2023, 07:24 AM
  #135  
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It's escaping me at the moment, but some new car (maybe the new 2.7T I4 Colorado) is coming with an electronic water pump, so it's not driven off the engine running at all.
My Lotus was going to use an electric water pump as well, less drawing parasitic power from the Dorito spinner.

Last edited by 00TL-P3.2; 02-22-2023 at 09:00 AM.
Old 02-22-2023, 08:56 AM
  #136  
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There are a lot of cars with electric water pumps. BMW has been doing it for over 10 years. Expensive when they fail but it is more efficient. Most of these seemingly dumb complexities are driven by a desire to improve efficiency, emissions, and fuel economy. A car that warms up faster can switch off the rich burn mix faster therefore being more efficient and clean.
Old 02-22-2023, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
A car that warms up faster can switch off the rich burn mix faster therefore being more efficient and clean.
But its OK to have cruise ships (a luxury and not a necessity) docked in port for days spewing pollution.

I am done with EV, woke and politically correct BS.
Old 02-22-2023, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Tech
But its OK to have cruise ships (a luxury and not a necessity) docked in port for days spewing pollution.

I am done with EV, woke and politically correct BS.
Wait, how did we get to cruise ships? FWIW, a lot of them plug in to shore power while docked at major ports.

Emissions standards are nothing new and automakers need to come up with unique ways to hit them. This has nothing to do with EV's...
Old 02-22-2023, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
Wait, how did we get to cruise ships? FWIW, a lot of them plug in to shore power while docked at major ports.

Emissions standards are nothing new and automakers need to come up with unique ways to hit them. This has nothing to do with EV's...
I just don't believe in the crap governments impose on us. Usually based on nothing but on an agenda that someone can make $$$ on.

You think an EV is clean? LOL. Electricity produced by coal or nuclear, battery production and then disposal. Seems users forget all that.
Old 02-22-2023, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Tech
I just don't believe in the crap governments impose on us. Usually based on nothing but on an agenda that someone can make $$$ on.

You think an EV is clean? LOL. Electricity produced by coal or nuclear, battery production and then disposal. Seems users forget all that.
There is plenty of data available that shows driving an EV is cleaner than an ICE car. This isn't really up for debate anymore. Nothing is "clean" but EV is substantially "cleaner" than ICE cars.

There's also data to show that overall cradle to grave CO2 emissions for an EV is less than a comparable gas car. Also not up for debate any more.

There's also plenty of data to show that an EV is cheaper to run and maintain than a comparable ICE car.

No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to buy an EV so do as you please.
Old 02-22-2023, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to buy an EV so do as you please.
Its unfotunate owners do not have the facts.

Would not waste my time with one. I got to drive a Taycan Turbo S at a drive event and just like a Tesla, if these cars are supposed to be green, why waste energy accelerating like they do? Totally contradictory to the idea! And I could not stand a car that sounds like a sewing machine.
Old 02-22-2023, 08:44 PM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by Tech
Its unfotunate owners do not have the facts.

Would not waste my time with one. I got to drive a Taycan Turbo S at a drive event and just like a Tesla, if these cars are supposed to be green, why waste energy accelerating like they do? Totally contradictory to the idea! And I could not stand a car that sounds like a sewing machine.
Because it's fun and even with accelerating that fast, they consume a fraction of the energy doing it. A fully charged Taycan holds the equivalent of less than 3 gallons of gas and can go 250 miles on it. You don't have to get an EV that's an economy car designed to be as green as possible. There are plenty of EV's out there that are designed with fun and utility in mind. Remember that the Taycan you drove would eat your 911 for lunch in every performance metric, it wouldn't even be close. Shit, my pickup truck would eat your 911 in a quarter mile drag, wouldn't even be close.

And I'm sorry but what facts am I missing? There is ONE state that has proposed a ban on ICE cars that takes effect in 12 YEARS. A lot of things will happen in 12 years. 12 years ago we were still on the iPhone 4 and the Model S was a pipe dream.
Old 02-22-2023, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
Because it's fun and even with accelerating that fast...
You and many EV users are missing the point. Doing 60 in 2 seconds wastes energy but it boosts their fragile ego. And trust me I am not suffering from SPS (short pecker syndrome) as some do to get to the next red light first.

If we all ran EVs, home would be dark. LOL
Old 02-23-2023, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Tech
You and many EV users are missing the point. Doing 60 in 2 seconds wastes energy but it boosts their fragile ego. And trust me I am not suffering from SPS (short pecker syndrome) as some do to get to the next red light first.

If we all ran EVs, home would be dark. LOL
Again...not true at all.
Old 02-23-2023, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
Again...not true at all.
I guess that is why California asked EV owners not to charge their cars last summer due to brownouts and blackouts.

Bud, I really do not care if you drive one or not. EVs do not interest me in the least for countless reasons. And the topic here was a dual stage water pump in order to have the engine heat up faster to save fuel and emissions. Who cares. If you are so concerned about saving the planet, is your pickup truck an EV?

Last edited by Tech; 02-23-2023 at 04:22 PM.
Old 02-23-2023, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Tech
I guess that is why California asked EV owners not to charge their cars last summer due to brownouts and blackouts.

Bud, I really do not care if you drive one or not. EVs do not interest me in the least for countless reasons. And the topic here was a dual stage water pump in order to have the engine heat up faster to save fuel and emissions. Who cares. If you are so concerned about saving the planet, is your pickup truck an EV?
it is.
Old 02-23-2023, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by pttl
it is.
Can you fully charge it from near empty to 100% in under 5 minutes and get 400 miles on a charge? If so, who makes it?
Old 02-24-2023, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Tech
Can you fully charge it from near empty to 100% in under 5 minutes and get 400 miles on a charge? If so, who makes it?
You asked if his truck was an ev, I know it is.

unfortunately there is no ev on earth that can charge like that. It's one of the biggest inconveniences of the genre.
Old 02-24-2023, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by pttl
unfortunately there is no ev on earth that can charge like that. It's one of the biggest inconveniences of the genre.
Having worked in a defense battery lab, I know. The downside (for me) to EVs are charge time, range, and not that it happens all the time, getting to a charge station and waiting for the driver in front of me to finish charging. Also, what is my car worth when battery range is cut in half due to age.

Also, charging at home is fine, but I have taken trips where I've done 1575 miles in one shot and came back the next day. If I had to charge that often instead of a 5 minute gas fill-up, I'd never make it.

And when it comes to sports cars, EVs would not cut it for me. Channel flicking, I came across watching Formula E on TV. No thanks...boring. I've been to enough F1 and other races to know what stirs my soul. It like being at the EAA in Oshkosh and having a P51 fly over my tent.
Old 02-24-2023, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Tech
I guess that is why California asked EV owners not to charge their cars last summer due to brownouts and blackouts.

Bud, I really do not care if you drive one or not. EVs do not interest me in the least for countless reasons. And the topic here was a dual stage water pump in order to have the engine heat up faster to save fuel and emissions. Who cares. If you are so concerned about saving the planet, is your pickup truck an EV?
California asked that residents don't charge between 4pm and 9pm, not don't charge at all. Almost no one (at home at least) charges between those times anyway. The majority of people in CA are using time of use plans where they get much cheaper rates for charging between 10-11pm and 7am during non peak times, that's when they charge.

I don't care if EV's don't interest you nor do I care why they don't but don't spew a bunch of false BS about EV ownership as a cop out for why you don't want one. If you don't want one because you don't want one, that's good enough.

Yes, my truck is an EV.

Originally Posted by Tech
Can you fully charge it from near empty to 100% in under 5 minutes and get 400 miles on a charge? If so, who makes it?
No, of course not. How often do you travel 400 miles without stopping for 20-30 mins anyway?

Originally Posted by Tech
Having worked in a defense battery lab, I know. The downside (for me) to EVs are charge time, range, and not that it happens all the time, getting to a charge station and waiting for the driver in front of me to finish charging. Also, what is my car worth when battery range is cut in half due to age.

Also, charging at home is fine, but I have taken trips where I've done 1575 miles in one shot and came back the next day. If I had to charge that often instead of a 5 minute gas fill-up, I'd never make it.

And when it comes to sports cars, EVs would not cut it for me. Channel flicking, I came across watching Formula E on TV. No thanks...boring. I've been to enough F1 and other races to know what stirs my soul. It like being at the EAA in Oshkosh and having a P51 fly over my tent.
Charge time is 20ish mins at a fast charger every ~300 miles of travel. I don't know about you but I need to eat and pee when driving so stopping for 20-30mins every 4 hours seems like it would be something I'd do anyway. I have never waited to charge in my two years of EV ownership.

Battery range is absolutely not cut in half with age lol. Battery life degrades less than 10% over 250k miles. Again, lots of data on this.

If you're doing that kind of mileage on a consistent basis then an EV isn't for you but I'm guessing you're not. We have a gas car as well for road trips and trips to places where charging would be challenging/impossible. I will freely admit that charging isn't where it needs to be, especially if you don't have a Tesla, but for most people who drive around their area 99% of the time, an EV works amazingly well.

Again, don't care what your reasons are for not wanting one but the ones you've laid out are astoundingly false. Seems like you need some education on the matter more than anything.

FWIW, I wouldn't buy an EV sports car either. That said, the sports car I'm considering will be a lot slower than my truck so take that for what it's worth.
Old 02-24-2023, 03:30 PM
  #151  
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
If you're doing that kind of mileage on a consistent basis then an EV isn't for you but I'm guessing you're not.
Unimportant if I am doing it consistently or not. I do not need in inconvenience. It also why all of my motorcycles have range, so do my cars. I fill-up when I am near empty.

Originally Posted by SamDoe1
We have a gas car as well for road trips and trips to places where charging would be challenging/impossible. I will freely admit that charging isn't where it needs to be..
Well there you have it, you have a GAS car for the same reason I have one. End of story! LOL
Old 02-24-2023, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
Battery range is absolutely not cut in half with age lol. Battery life degrades less than 10% over 250k miles. Again, lots of data on this.
I guess it depends where you get your "feel good" data. I on the other hand worked in a government battery lab with batteries, testing chargers and battery test equipment.

I doubt you own any lithium batteries that are 13+ years old and these are single-cell batteries which last longer than multi-cell batteries. My past mobile phone was 8 years old, my present digital camera is 13 years old and their battery life was cut in half.

Let me know how your range is affected after 15 years in your EV on the same battery with it being charged every two days. I've owned cars from new for 14 years and it is now 23 years old in the hands of a friend. Strange, range is identical to when it was new.
Old 02-25-2023, 06:59 AM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by Tech
I just don't believe in the crap governments impose on us. Usually based on nothing but on an agenda that someone can make $$$ on.

You think an EV is clean? LOL. Electricity produced by coal or nuclear, battery production and then disposal. Seems users forget all that.
You forgot, water, solar and wind generated electricity.
Old 02-25-2023, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Chief F1 Fan
You forgot, water, solar and wind generated electricity.
Not at all. I just do not see any wind turbines or solar panels on my drives.
Old 02-27-2023, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Tech
Unimportant if I am doing it consistently or not. I do not need in inconvenience. It also why all of my motorcycles have range, so do my cars. I fill-up when I am near empty.

Well there you have it, you have a GAS car for the same reason I have one. End of story! LOL
Well I just fill my truck up every night, empty or not. No hassle or inconvenience of going to a gas station and paying a ridiculous amount for gas over and over again in the rain/snow/cold. That sounds horrible.

We have a gas car because my in-laws live in the middle of BFE where the closest charger is 100 miles away. The location is not one that anyone would go to unless they had a good reason for it so, for the general population, this isn't an issue. If we didn't have this particular use condition, we'd have another EV already.

Originally Posted by Tech
I guess it depends where you get your "feel good" data. I on the other hand worked in a government battery lab with batteries, testing chargers and battery test equipment.

I doubt you own any lithium batteries that are 13+ years old and these are single-cell batteries which last longer than multi-cell batteries. My past mobile phone was 8 years old, my present digital camera is 13 years old and their battery life was cut in half.

Let me know how your range is affected after 15 years in your EV on the same battery with it being charged every two days. I've owned cars from new for 14 years and it is now 23 years old in the hands of a friend. Strange, range is identical to when it was new.
Data is data, feel good or otherwise. I don't deal in opinions and propaganda.

I don't own a car that's 13 years old and the majority of people don't either. In regards to your analogy of camera in phone batteries...lol. Last I checked, neither of those had tuned battery management systems, active cooling/heating, and other systems to ensure battery health.

Here's the data that Tesla has gathered on the performance of their batteries over time and mileage:


Again, actual data not opinions. Tesla is the one to get this from since they've been doing this the longest. More data will come out with time.

Originally Posted by Tech
Not at all. I just do not see any wind turbines or solar panels on my drives.
Right...and just because you don't see it on your drives mean that it doesn't exist right?
Old 03-08-2023, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Tech
I guess that is why California asked EV owners not to charge their cars last summer due to brownouts and blackouts.
Context matters.

As Sam said, they asked people to charge at specific hours when the grid wasn't as taxed thanks to a heatwave which was stressing the grid. Not the EVs. HVAC systems use the majority of residential power in this country, and that was causing the demand issues.

BTW - how would you fill up any number of your cars/bikes when the power is out? Hint: you can't.

Originally Posted by Chief F1 Fan
You forgot, water, solar and wind generated electricity.
And renewables make up over 20% of the grid in this country (not including residential solar arrays), while coal fired plants make up less than 20%, and that number keeps going down.
Old 03-08-2023, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Tech
Its unfotunate owners do not have the facts.

Would not waste my time with one. I got to drive a Taycan Turbo S at a drive event and just like a Tesla, if these cars are supposed to be green, why waste energy accelerating like they do? Totally contradictory to the idea! And I could not stand a car that sounds like a sewing machine.
…why waste energy accelerating like they do ….. ha ha ha. The dumbest argument coming from a 911 driver. LOL.
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Old 03-08-2023, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Comfy
…why waste energy accelerating like they do ….. ha ha ha. The dumbest argument coming from a 911 driver. LOL.
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Pretty dumb comment because any 911 driver or of any performance car doesn't pretend to be GREEN. Why would I care what MPGs I get. I don't in that car. LOL

Nothing like pulling 1.3Gs in curves at my beginner level. Straight line acceleration is kind of boring...been there, done that. No skill required.
Old 03-09-2023, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Tech
Pretty dumb comment because any 911 driver or of any performance car doesn't pretend to be GREEN. Why would I care what MPGs I get. I don't in that car. LOL

Nothing like pulling 1.3Gs in curves at my beginner level. Straight line acceleration is kind of boring...been there, done that. No skill required.
Here's the thing you cannot seem to wrap your mind around. Accelerating that hard in an EV consumes about a 1/8th the amount of energy that it would to do the same in a gas car. That said, most don't accelerate like that all the time and, even if they did, it would still be more "green" than driving a gas car. A Tesla Model 3 holds the equivalent of about 2.5 gallons of gas to go 300 miles. I'm not sure how you can even remotely make an argument that it's less green.
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Old 03-09-2023, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1
Here's the thing you cannot seem to wrap your mind around.
And here is the thing you cannot seem to wrap your head around.

I don't drive a performance car to save fuel or be GREEN. I drive an Acura RDX as a daily driver because it has damn good fuel economy for a V6.

Why would someone pretending to be GREEN race an EV wasting more energy than they need to. The whole idea of being GREEN is the environement...right. I do not pretend to be GREEN as so many EV drivers are.

Now here is a good one. My friend who drives an old hybrid (the battery is useless in it for many years) was thinking about an EV (good thing he changed his mind).

He can buy an equivalent ICE car for at least $20K less than say the cheapest Tesla 3. So in 10 years at $2000 a year in fuel, he gets to drive the ICE for free, while the owner of the EV needs to charge it for 10 years.

When ICE and EVs are priced accordingly, it will make sense.


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