iforyou

iTrader: (1)

When current gen Accord first came out, it's in 1st place in a few mags. Here's another comparison test back then:

http://www.insideline.com/honda/acco...gination_top_4

Some quotes of the Accord:

"The quality of the materials is best in class. "

"the interface for the Accord EX-L's navigation system is the most intuitive to use by far"

"steering manages to be quick and communicative right around center, and this helps make the driving experience feel natural and intuitive."

" the Accord responds to surface imperfections with crisp suspension action that has just enough compliance to minimize complaints from the passengers, yet keep the driver in touch with reality."

The Accord is old now so things have definitely changed.

Moog-Type-S

Yup...read that too.

oonowindoo

Yah that was like 4 years ago. and i do not agree with all of them but whatever.

Let's just hope their next gen accord will be better.. from what Honda did to their Civic, i wouldn't count on it..

NJ SHAWD

Not much in body roll at all.

this is true...

The only negative so far is that it is floaty. They must have good roll bars, because there is little roll.

NJ SHAWD

The US Kia badge sucks. I ordered the Kia Korean badge and rehashed the entire car.



The wheels are certainly polarizing, but the car almost works with them. They pushed the whole futuristic thing on their commercials which for some makes the current wheels work.
I needed something else. They were a little too "young" for me so I wanted to dress it up a little.

biker

^ better.

oonowindoo

Are people still paying full MSRP for the SX models? i am thinking about lease 1 as my beater =)

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

yea, naturally, a car becomes not as competitive when it's near the end of its cycle...that's why they need to redesign it.

I think Honda needs to do whatever they did to the Civic, and apply to the Accord too. You know..things like, reduced panel gaps, stronger, lighter and safer chassis, improved ride and NVH, more aggressive styling without going crazy, much better fuel economy even without using DI, new engine, and/or 6AT, and some other improvements.

oonowindoo

you know Honda didn't do any of those to the new civic right? and K24 is not a new engine, my 06 accord LX has K24 I-Vtec too =)

biker

But for the avatar, I thought for sure it was someone else posting this.

Biker, who thinks it won't be long before that someone will chime in here.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

hmm? what do you mean?

Weight:
All models except the DX lost weight. DX gained 5-6lbs. Other models lost between 20lbs to 58lbs. Not a whole lot, but considering most cars have gained weight these days, it's good to see a car that's actually losing weight. Don't you agree?

Structural Rigidity:
10% stronger than before.

Improved ride/NVH:

From C/D
"Tweaks to the strut front and multilink rear suspension yield more travel and a slightly smoother ride."

"Large impacts seem more distant than before and are absorbed by a unibody structure that is slightly more rigid."

"The four-cylinder still spins happily, but less of the noise enters the cabin. "

From Motortrend:
"In fact, in just about every objective measurement, this 2012 outclasses its COTY-winning predecessor. Further, its improved dynamics and better road manners might very well elevate this EX to the top of its class"

"at the test track the new EX handily outperforms its predecessor -- in this case an EX sedan we tested back in 2008."

"Out in the real-world test track, the Gen 9 Civic again exhibits improvements over Gen 8. Turn-in is less abrupt and dynamic transitions are softer, so when pushed aggressively, the Civic seems less jittery and more collected. Thanks to a lighter and stronger body with more high-strength steel, the 2012 Civic is smoother, quieter, and more polished than its precursor, which, six years into its lifecycle, was showing its age in terms of lower ride quality and higher cabin noise."

Fuel economy:

2011 Civic: 25/36/29
2012 Civic: 28/39/32

I'd call that improvement and that's without using DI, a new engine, and/or 6AT. Who said K24 is a new engine? I believe it's around 10 year old, isn't it?

lol hey come on man, I'm using legit facts here....unlike you know who...

oonowindoo

This is Optima Thread, we can argue over in the Civic Thread. Let's not do the Magazine racing here.. bottom line. Old Engine, barely any performance gain if any. and Being Si, i dont believe less "noise" is a good thing considering it lost a lot of revs. and who cares about those LX and EX... they never had any performance anyways..they are just getting uglier and uglier

Let's continue in the other thread.

jhumbo

iTrader: (1)

True. Until you get into the SX. I just test drove an SX Turbo. A little more body roll than my TL, but it pretty good and much better than the LX or EX and most other cars in its class.

Fully loaded SX in under $30k so it is a very tempting replacement for my 3G TL. Packed with a lot of nice features and technology. I'm just wondering if it will hold up till 150k as well as my TL has. I know that this is a totally different class of car, but it is still tempting.

F23A4

No doubt, the Kia Optima (and Hyundai Sonata) has moved beyond being a mere 'also ran' in this segment and is a viable (if not admirable) alternative to the Accord. I'd still get a loaded AV6 EX-L over the Optima SX but that's more to do with my personal preference than any flaws with the Kia.

Sidenote: It'd be nice if Honda treated us sedan buyers with a 6MT equipped 2012 AV6...a la 06-07 AV6.

oonowindoo

yah and for some unknown reason Honda decides to go back to 2000 with their taillights when both late 7gen coupe and sedan have LED tails. They are going backwards...

Nabooly

I'm seriously considering getting an SX Turbo Optima. I have grown tired of my escape and the powerless engine and the sub par gas mileage. I also like the Accord but the Kia is packed with so much more for much less. My dad just bought a fully loaded Forte sedan and the materials aren't as bad as I thought. Really nice and stylish actually.

NJ SHAWD

This...

The suspension is much better than the EX in my opinion. I test drove the ex, before I bought the SX. The accord wins over the ex, but the SX suspension is better. It is not great, but better. I think the Only mod I will do to mine (besides wheels and tires) is a good set of coil overs.

DeMAN

Computer and a 60k/100k warranty. Its a matter of a tuner getting a hold to this one. More than enough power for the avg. driver which is what this car targets.

SSFTSX

Well first Kia Optima turbo is epic fail. bald tires on first service visit. and you have to change Oil filter at less half interval of V6 sedan. what worse is real world MPG is worse than latest Honda Odyssey. and despite freeway driving it needs new brakes .

http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtest...-the-ugly.html
2011 Kia Optima SX Turbo: Service Visit - The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Sonat has similar problem of not moving in straight line. read the comments
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...oad_test_intro




BMW 5 series have same suspension problem. Outof aligment on first services. Just like Automoblie Mag got bald tires at 10k
http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtest...ange.html#more


All those overhyped vehicles are in reality of very low quality & high maintainance for long term.

biker

One had to wonder when that was coming?

jhumbo

iTrader: (1)

Uhhh... That article says nothing bad about the quality of the car itself. It's more of a complaint about how the dealership service department is trying so hard to upsell unnecessary services. I wonder about the quality and longterm reliability of these Kias, but that article didn't provide any insight IMO.

SSFTSX

It is not just this articles. Follow the articles afterward. First Oil change for turbo Kia needed at 3000miles. and second is 6000. Irrespective of how you drive.No advantage of freeway miles. Manufacturer by itself is not confident about them.
Follow the monthly fuel economy. everything is near to the bottom.
It is not these are some high g pulling cars like TL-SH-AWD/RDX that suspension will lose on pot holes/curbs.

that BMW is garbage. Atleast it survive the tires untill 15k. Kia is done at less than half of that miles. Honda is miles ahead of these in manufacturing quality.
http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtest...expensive.html

Hapa DC5

Quit skewing what edmunds said. They didn't mention the Kia having excessive tire wear. A service advisor was planting the seed mentioning they may need tires. Not they brought the car in for bald tires.

Do you even believe what you type?

SSFTSX

why would Service advisor will be wrong something so obvious? BMW service advisor was not wrong. and biggest point. Edmunds use there cars for long trips. where there is no daily turning of wheel inside the city streets thats kills tire life.

Costco

Here it is, straight from the owner's manual:



The footnote states that the 2.0 TGDI engine requires a 3k oil change for the first factory fill change.... from there on out, it's a 5k OCI. It is a bit sloppy on their part, but nonetheless, you are wrong.

If you're going to continue to add useless information, I would suggest you start saying good things about Honda's competitors since you've already laid down the groundwork for some reverse psychology. Nobody is going to believe you anyways, so might as well.

SSFTSX

You mis interpreted. I said 6000mile needed for Oil change after the first one. Not 3000+3000. So in reality 5000 mile needed for next oil change. Obviously manufacturer is no so sure about engine life of putting such hard and fast rule. Oil life should be dictated by driving conditions.

NJ SHAWD

That is all bs, I don't care what it says in one article by one person. I had to talk my service advisor in to doing my first oil change at 3000 miles. I did it for my own reasons and they didn't want to. No issues with my tires, and my real world mpg is 22-24 around town and 34-36 highway. You can start making real judgements when you have one, not when you read about it.

Hapa DC5

They're not wrong. Premature wear can be caused by poor alignment ie hitting a deep pot hole. The 350Z when it first came out was famous for inner wear, so much so that Nissan even extended the alignment warranty to 36 months unlimited miles (typical adjustments are 12 months 12k). I guess the Z is a piece of shit too?

It's just amazing that you are so dead set on discrediting the competition. The key word is competition they are making cars that meet and even surpass Honda's. You're going to say blah blah with the blah blah it's an old design.

I'll rebut by saying where in the last two decades has Kia or Hyundai have come close to Honda/Toyota and to now even have Honda's CEO admit they are a true competitor. You're living in Pleasantville chief. Get with reality.

I have no idea what you do for a living, but I work for a major auto brand. Not at the dealer level, but as a consultant for the brand itself. Guess what, we see these cars as a threat.

What helps right now is Hyundai Kia fixed ops is in the toilet and they even sublet out work to our dealers since they can't handle the flow of business.

I usually don't like throwing my weight around, but I actually know what I'm talking about (I spend time meeting with dealer operators, GMs, fixed op directors, Kia and Hyundai are brought up quite regularly and I send their concerns back to my higher ups) and it's hysterical that the automotive press, my company, every other brand, even my Siberian Huskies recognize these brands are on the rise and a serious threat, but for some coked up fob reason you don't.

Plain and simple you're wrong.
Nissan recommends 3,750 mile intervals or 7,500 mile intervals. To move away from mileage intervals to oil monitor systems changes the business directions for these brands. They move to ridiculous selling techniques (ie worn tires at 13k), since they do not see their as often.

Let me guess you're an engineer so you're going to tell us how it's supposed to work?

SSFTSX

Plain and Simple i am right. VW sells 20 times more Vehicle than Honda in EU. but it does not mean it is has long time quality.
When due to economic conditions People will keep cars for long term. They will gravitate towards brand that can survive for lowest maintainance for longest period of time.
http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/what...o---kia/250839

It is not limited to Sonata. overtime Genesis is showing the same balance issues.
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/longter...enesis09.shtml
2009 Hyundai Genesis
You've heard us complain about easily damaged alloy wheel trim, and out-of-balanced tires, but that's pretty much it.



It is not interest of consumers to buy such brand. 370Z is not family sedan.

for example i am on original rear brake pads on Acura TSX but most people are replacing it i drive freeway more. Every maintainace item should be dictated by driivng condition.

both BMW/Kia had tire problem and both are extensively driven on freeway. it is big let down.
IN C&D long term Sonata 2.0T cannot move in straight line. just wait for bald tires soon. the problem is most of long term tests on freeways. so it does not in reality mimick real driving conditions.

when time goes by the efficiency of Honda engines improves. while all other brands either stay the same or fall apart.

http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/longter...dyssey11.shtml

PortlandRL

I don't care if they ban me...you are the biggest fucking retard on this planet.

jhumbo

iTrader: (1)

Time to stop feeding the troll.

NJ SHAWD

Notice he can only quote articles. He has no real back up for this. I would be more than happy to debate these points. I've had a few cars to back things up, plus I own the car being debated.

pttl

Hapa DC5

This is why in the wild some mothers eat their young. They haven't gravitated to Honda in the mass numbers you've been expecting. The economy sucks and still to this day Europeans buy the "lesser" VW much more then Honda even according to your own sources.

You keep selling them short, but carry zero credibility on the subject. Who should I believe you or Honda's CEO acknowledging the rise of the Koreans? What about the other automotive manufacturers stating the same thing? http://www.autoevolution.com/news/ho...ome-11645.html "Hyundai is Awesome" That's from the Honda CEO you know the boss of the brand whose nuts you keep riding...

http://www.newsweek.com/2009/07/07/o...g-detroit.html
mentions Hyundai's rise and why the Big Three should be looking over their shoulder

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/may...undai-20100526
http://money.cnn.com/2010/01/04/auto...ition.fortune/

Even as far back as 2006 Toyota admits Hyundai worries them
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1555926/posts

Do you need any more articles to state you are wrong?

Here you go....
http://www.autospies.com/news/Is-Hyu...riously-57108/

Would you like more? Yes? Alright!

I aim to please....
http://content.usatoday.com/communit...-us-ceo-says/1
http://www.morningstar.com/topics/t/...pressuring.htm

The duration of stay for an H-1B visa is three years. If you don't get an extension it looks like your days are numbered. Turn that bitch in and GTFO!


When I describe maintenance intervals I mean Nissan as a brand not just the Z. Nissan probably has the widest range of selection. From Commercial vehicles to full Electric vehicles there is a lot of consumer interest in the brand.

Every brand has their own maintenance schedule. For the cars I own I follow what the brand says. ~10k (according to the MM) OCIs for my Fit, 3,750 miles for my G. I use to change my oil more often when I had my TL then my Fit since I didn't pay for the maintenance. For my G, I may be changing it too often, but $50 every 4 months won't kill me. They have maintenance schedules based on driving conditions, severe and normal...

What else are you willing to teach all of us? How did you become such an expert in the automotive industry? Put down the Honda invincibility pipe.

Wow even your brakes (wear and tear item) have made it over 2 years! I'm truly impressed, I'm sure nobody has made it 2 years on TSX rear brakes. You're one of a kind.....

SSFTSX

It is established fact now. That Hyundai/Kia has suspension that deformed tires much earlier than any Honda/Acura. and it does not matter whether it is Sonata, Optima or Genesis. despite extensive freeway driving.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ad_test_update
Over this 40K run, the Genesis required attention every 7500 miles, or five routine services that cost a not-so-routine $605 in total, plus $856 for a new set of tires after 35,000 miles. That’s luxury-car money. (Remember our long-term ’09 Jaguar XF [November 2009]? Its four services cost $667.)

Only Honda can achive this scale of improvement over long term.

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...8b3a57b7f9.pdf

SSFTSX

No where it is written that Hyundai/Kia are awesome for long term? how is there coolant flush schedule?. Consumers should know the total cost of buying this junk.

Nissan is low quality brand. It should never be compared with Honda for long term durability. The problem is two years with Accord/TSX people think that is short time as they expect much longer from Honda. there is no such expectations from other brands so it never becomes an issue. It does not matter whether is freeway driving or city. but 3 years is the limit.

Hapa DC5

Wherever you go please take this button with you.

Costco

the 2G TSX is one of the most boring cars I've ever driven

The Optima is clearly the superior car here. I don't even know why this is a discussion. Anyone who owns a 2G TSX should be ashamed of themselves. It's one of the lowest quality cars in Honda's lineup today.

pttl

anybody want some?

NJ SHAWD

Fixed