Honda: Development and Technology News
05-17-2017, 04:00 AM
#2561
2G TLX-S
275lbft with some headroom (say, 300lbft) is more than enough for Honda's NA V6 and 2.0T. Who knows what the actual torque capacity really is. I have a S2000 with 153lbft stock but even with a supercharger or turbo at 250-300lbft, it's not much of a problem other than the clutch has to be upgraded.
05-17-2017, 11:39 AM
#2562
Azine Jabroni
05-17-2017, 01:07 PM
#2563
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Yes but even the shitty ZF9 can handle 450 lb/ft. That incredibly poor (In this day and age) max torque capacity is proof that Honda and Acura plan to keep churning out weak engines. Unless there are ways to beef it up for more power. For reference there are 2 versions of the ZF box, one that can handle 280 max torque and the other at 450.
Do we know if there's only one model for the Honda 10AT? Can they have different variations for different applications?
What about giving out a rating that's not too high, so that others won't know Honda's plans? For instance, if they come out and say that the 10AT can handle 500lbft, that would give others the impression that the 10AT will be the only tranny in the Honda/Acura line up as it will be compatible with pretty much any engine.
Who knows. May be DCT for 3.0T?
05-17-2017, 02:44 PM
#2564
AZ Community Team
I'm amazed how physically small that gearbox is.
For 10 speed it's very small, I'm guessing the use of modern steel alloys and heat treating has made a huge difference in physical gears.
Some of the gear sizes are remarkably small for the torque rating/
For 10 speed it's very small, I'm guessing the use of modern steel alloys and heat treating has made a huge difference in physical gears.
Some of the gear sizes are remarkably small for the torque rating/
05-17-2017, 04:25 PM
#2565
Moderator
It says it's shorter than the 6 speed which is amazing on its own.. Looking at the pics is that also a serviceable ATF filter? and that small ass Torque Converter? Would it work for the heavier MDX and Pilot while keeping the 5000lb towing rating?.. So many questions and so little answers.
05-19-2017, 06:12 PM
#2567
Team Owner
When can we place bet on the reliability of the new 10 AT?
05-20-2017, 01:38 AM
#2568
6 Forward 1 Back
No kidding. Those 2018 Odysseys will be the ones to watch and see what happens. I still remember the glass transmissions in the 2001 CL Type S automatics. Honda makes great manuals/DCT but their automatics are hit or miss.
05-22-2017, 08:49 PM
#2569
Team Owner
you dont have to look back all the way to 2001.... "their" 9ZF is not something to brag about either.
05-22-2017, 09:04 PM
#2570
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05-22-2017, 10:08 PM
#2571
The ZF9 didn't help change people's opinion of Honda's automatics, despite not actually being made by them. But haven't in-house Honda autos been pretty solid since the 6AT came about?
05-23-2017, 04:18 AM
#2572
Also, with the ZF, to package it so well they had to use 2 dog clutches. Does the Honda 10AT use dog clutches? If not, are they compensating in another way? A possibly less reliable way?
05-23-2017, 08:55 AM
#2573
Three Wheelin'
What makes you say that? The ZF9 has its issues but it was never downshifting into 2nd on a highway. I haven't seen a ZF completely fail, just have poor shift patterns. From what I can also see the issues are only on the 2015 TLX, where as the entire 2G TL model years are prone to failure.
05-23-2017, 11:38 AM
#2574
Senior Moderator
Merged.
05-23-2017, 11:44 AM
#2575
Team Owner
What makes you say that? The ZF9 has its issues but it was never downshifting into 2nd on a highway. I haven't seen a ZF completely fail, just have poor shift patterns. From what I can also see the issues are only on the 2015 TLX, where as the entire 2G TL model years are prone to failure.
05-23-2017, 11:54 AM
#2576
Team Owner
nah my first one died at 17k miles... like within the first 18 months.. 2nd one died within 5k miles.
It has been almost 15 years and i still remember it clearly. It was such a memorable experience.
It has been almost 15 years and i still remember it clearly. It was such a memorable experience.
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TacoBello (05-23-2017)
05-23-2017, 11:58 AM
#2577
Team Owner
Were you revving the engine to 6000rpm in neutral, and then dropping it into drive? 
05-23-2017, 01:19 PM
#2578
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What makes you say that? The ZF9 has its issues but it was never downshifting into 2nd on a highway. I haven't seen a ZF completely fail, just have poor shift patterns. From what I can also see the issues are only on the 2015 TLX, where as the entire 2G TL model years are prone to failure.
What you are describing is the seriousness/consequences of the failure.
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Curious3GTL (05-23-2017)
05-23-2017, 02:20 PM
#2579
Three Wheelin'
From what I have read though the 2nd generation TL transmission showed signs of failing pretty fast though. Time will tell......
05-23-2017, 02:35 PM
#2580
Team Owner
05-24-2017, 12:07 PM
#2581
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Correct, I should have been more clear. The 2nd generation TL transmission would die and it would downshift into 2nd on the highway (not in all cases, but it could happen). However, it's true we will have to wait and see if the ZF lasts overtime.
From what I have read though the 2nd generation TL transmission showed signs of failing pretty fast though. Time will tell......
From what I have read though the 2nd generation TL transmission showed signs of failing pretty fast though. Time will tell......
Do these ZF crap out like that? From what I've read so far, the complaints are mostly about its shift quality, slow shifting speed, and "free-wheeling" effect for 2015 TLX.
I just read Redline review of the 2018 TLX and the reviewer seems to like the updated tranny a whole lot better.
06-08-2017, 07:05 AM
#2582
Safety Car
AutoNews
http://www.autonews.com/article/20170608/COPY01/306089978/hondas-new-strategy-focuses-on-self-driving-cars-evs
Honda's new strategy focuses on self-driving cars, EVs
June 8, 2017 @ 3:57 am
Unveiling its mid-term Vision 2030 strategy plan on Thursday, Honda said it would boost coordination between r&d, procurement and manufacturing to tame development costs as it acknowledged it must look beyond conventional vehicles to survive in an industry that is moving rapidly into electric and self-driving cars.
Honda has already spelled out plans to market a vehicle which can drive itself on highways by 2020, and the new target for city-capable self-driving cars puts its progress slightly behind rivals like BMW Group.
"We're going to place utmost priority on electrification and advanced safety technologies going forward," Honda CEO Takahiro Hachigo said.
Developing new driving technologies, robotics and artificial intelligence-driven services and new energy solutions also would be key priorities for Honda in the years ahead, the company said.
Leveling upHonda established a division late last year to develop electric vehicles as part of its long-held goal for lower-emission gasoline hybrids, plug-in hybrids, EVs and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles to account for two-thirds of its lineup by 2030, from about 5 percent now.
By 2025, Honda plans to come up with cars with level 4 standard automated driving functions, meaning they can drive themselves on highways and city roads under most situations.
Achieving such capabilities will require artificial intelligence to detect traffic movements, along with a battery of cameras and sensors to help avoid accidents.
BMW has said it would launch a fully autonomous car by 2021, while Ford Motor has said it will introduce a vehicle with similar capabilities for ride-sharing purposes in the same year. Nissan Motor is planning to launch a car which can drive automatically on city streets by 2020.
Honda has been ramping up r&d spending, earmarking a record 750 billion yen ($6.84 billion) for the year to March.
Naomi Tajitsu and Maki Shiraki
Reuters1
Shares
HAGA, Japan -- Honda Motor Co. outlined its plans to develop autonomous cars with level 4 capability that can drive on city streets by 2025, building on its strategy to take on automotive rivals of the future.Shares
Unveiling its mid-term Vision 2030 strategy plan on Thursday, Honda said it would boost coordination between r&d, procurement and manufacturing to tame development costs as it acknowledged it must look beyond conventional vehicles to survive in an industry that is moving rapidly into electric and self-driving cars.
Honda has already spelled out plans to market a vehicle which can drive itself on highways by 2020, and the new target for city-capable self-driving cars puts its progress slightly behind rivals like BMW Group.
"We're going to place utmost priority on electrification and advanced safety technologies going forward," Honda CEO Takahiro Hachigo said.
Developing new driving technologies, robotics and artificial intelligence-driven services and new energy solutions also would be key priorities for Honda in the years ahead, the company said.
Leveling upHonda established a division late last year to develop electric vehicles as part of its long-held goal for lower-emission gasoline hybrids, plug-in hybrids, EVs and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles to account for two-thirds of its lineup by 2030, from about 5 percent now.
By 2025, Honda plans to come up with cars with level 4 standard automated driving functions, meaning they can drive themselves on highways and city roads under most situations.
Achieving such capabilities will require artificial intelligence to detect traffic movements, along with a battery of cameras and sensors to help avoid accidents.
BMW has said it would launch a fully autonomous car by 2021, while Ford Motor has said it will introduce a vehicle with similar capabilities for ride-sharing purposes in the same year. Nissan Motor is planning to launch a car which can drive automatically on city streets by 2020.
Honda has been ramping up r&d spending, earmarking a record 750 billion yen ($6.84 billion) for the year to March.
06-08-2017, 07:27 AM
#2583
Senior Moderator
Yea, thats something they should focus on 
06-08-2017, 08:00 AM
#2584
Azine Jabroni
RIP Honda
06-08-2017, 04:56 PM
#2585
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lol here's the full press release first:
Honda Worldwide | June 8, 2017 "Summary of Honda CEO Speech at Honda Meeting 2017"
Self-driving and EV's are only 2 of the items out of 10 items listed.
Honda Worldwide | June 8, 2017 "Summary of Honda CEO Speech at Honda Meeting 2017"
Self-driving and EV's are only 2 of the items out of 10 items listed.
06-15-2017, 08:54 AM
#2586
Race Director
Reviving a long-dormant thread with an interesting tidbit from "The Morning Shift" on Jalopnik:
The Morning Shift | Jalopnik
The Morning Shift | Jalopnik
4th Gear: And Now For Some Science
Engine downsizing and turbocharging is the way things are going. And they seem to solve both issues of efficiency and power output. Foolproof, right? Not so fast, if Wards Autohas anything to say about it.The high-compression nature of these engines can sometimes result in “broken piston rings, cracked off tops of pistons and bent connecting rods.”The culprit? Low-speed pre-ignition, or LSPI. Here’s what happens:
Solutions include fortified parts and systems designed especially to withstand LSPI. The EPA estimates that downsized engines will power half of all cars sold by 2025, so it’s pretty important to get this fixed before it becomes a more widespread problem.
Engine downsizing and turbocharging is the way things are going. And they seem to solve both issues of efficiency and power output. Foolproof, right? Not so fast, if Wards Autohas anything to say about it.The high-compression nature of these engines can sometimes result in “broken piston rings, cracked off tops of pistons and bent connecting rods.”The culprit? Low-speed pre-ignition, or LSPI. Here’s what happens:
It is an abnormal combustion phenomenon that occurs before the normal spark-plug ignition and is not widely known.
To facilitate downspeeding, which is changing gear ratios to lower engine speed in order to achieve better fuel economy, the smaller engines must produce high torque at low speeds.
The pressure required to achieve high levels of low-speed torque and quick throttle responsiveness can cause LSPI, which generates extremely high combustion-chamber pressures, Joachim Wagenblast, director of R&D-engine systems and components for engine supplier Mahle USA, says here at a technology presentation entitled “Problems Ahead for New Fuel-Efficient Engines.”
To facilitate downspeeding, which is changing gear ratios to lower engine speed in order to achieve better fuel economy, the smaller engines must produce high torque at low speeds.
The pressure required to achieve high levels of low-speed torque and quick throttle responsiveness can cause LSPI, which generates extremely high combustion-chamber pressures, Joachim Wagenblast, director of R&D-engine systems and components for engine supplier Mahle USA, says here at a technology presentation entitled “Problems Ahead for New Fuel-Efficient Engines.”
Last edited by nanxun; 06-15-2017 at 08:57 AM.
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nanxun (06-15-2017)
06-15-2017, 09:18 PM
#2588
Latent car nut
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The high-compression nature of these engines can sometimes result in broken piston rings, cracked off tops of pistons and bent connecting rods. The culprit? Low-speed pre-ignition, or LSPI.
Which is why I typically ignore the stupid shift indicator in late model cars with manual transmissions; our former 2012 VW GTI and our current Mazda3 s GT were/are both equipped with shift indicators which, even under load, often suggest shifting up one or even two gears, even when the engine RPMs are under 2,000.
Which is why I typically ignore the stupid shift indicator in late model cars with manual transmissions; our former 2012 VW GTI and our current Mazda3 s GT were/are both equipped with shift indicators which, even under load, often suggest shifting up one or even two gears, even when the engine RPMs are under 2,000.
06-15-2017, 10:04 PM
#2589
Team Owner
Do they have a tachometer?
shift lights are annoying.
shift lights are annoying.
06-15-2017, 10:20 PM
#2590
Latent car nut
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06-16-2017, 06:25 PM
#2591
Team Owner
Turbo Vtec will be nice....
Low end torque + high reving screaming machine....
hopefully it will be as reliable as their N/A engines.
Low end torque + high reving screaming machine....
hopefully it will be as reliable as their N/A engines.
06-17-2017, 07:31 PM
#2592
2G TLX-S
Honda is always late to the market on almost everything, such as direct-injection, turbo, truck, hybrid, etc, etc.
All major auto brands have been utilizing small displacement turbo-engines for power/fuel-economy for years.
All major auto brands have been utilizing small displacement turbo-engines for power/fuel-economy for years.
06-18-2017, 09:40 PM
#2593
Azine Jabroni
That's not a very good complaint, because Acura beat Audi to the DCT on its midsize sedan and beat most other major manufacturers to the sport hybrid. If you're mad about the Honda brand, I don't get why you care. People only care that Honda is reliable. Toyota has essentially done the same thing and avoided turbos until recently.
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TacoBello (06-19-2017)
06-19-2017, 01:13 AM
#2594
Team Owner
They might be late to the game... But maybe it's because they're trying to get shit right, rather than be the first and have its customers be the beta testers. Look at the sport hybrid system... It had growing pains, but hey, they were the first. Customers weren't overly happy being the guinea pigs.
also, it depends on model cycle. Just because company X released something, doesn't mean Honda is able to also, if they're only one or two years into a model cycle. They're also not going to scrap the planning process just because company X is doing something new and they need to be there too.
I can understand the frustration, but at the same time, stuff in the car world moves pretty damn slow. More so for a comparatively small company like Honda, vs the big boys, like the VAG umbrella, etc.
also, it depends on model cycle. Just because company X released something, doesn't mean Honda is able to also, if they're only one or two years into a model cycle. They're also not going to scrap the planning process just because company X is doing something new and they need to be there too.
I can understand the frustration, but at the same time, stuff in the car world moves pretty damn slow. More so for a comparatively small company like Honda, vs the big boys, like the VAG umbrella, etc.
06-19-2017, 01:15 AM
#2595
Team Owner
Also, Honda led the game on hybrids. They just weren't able to capitalize on it like Toyota did. For trucks, should Honda have gone back 100 years, to be the first? The company didn't even exist then.
etc..
etc..
06-19-2017, 07:54 AM
#2596
Moderator
Regional Coordinator (Southeast)
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If only the could figure out how to build a Turbo F1 engine.
06-19-2017, 11:43 AM
#2597
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To be fair, the J35 powered Accord was still kicking butt against its 2.0T rivals? Faster, better NVH, more premium sounding engine, no lag, better real world mpg, more reliable.
And many companies were suffering from carbon deposit issues with their direct injected engines and require walnut shell blasting. My friend just did it on his F30 335i a couple weeks ago. Wasn't cheap.
Agreed Honda is late in certain areas such as truck, SUV, and V6 for mid-size market. But some of the complaints are not that valid....
And many companies were suffering from carbon deposit issues with their direct injected engines and require walnut shell blasting. My friend just did it on his F30 335i a couple weeks ago. Wasn't cheap.
Agreed Honda is late in certain areas such as truck, SUV, and V6 for mid-size market. But some of the complaints are not that valid....
06-20-2017, 06:57 PM
#2598
2G TLX-S
That's not a very good complaint, because Acura beat Audi to the DCT on its midsize sedan and beat most other major manufacturers to the sport hybrid. If you're mad about the Honda brand, I don't get why you care. People only care that Honda is reliable. Toyota has essentially done the same thing and avoided turbos until recently.
The 2G TL/CL had a from-hell 5AT tranny that would self-destruct with little prior warning. The 3.7L-V6 engine burns engine oil big time. The 3G MDX has a rattling rear suspension that has no cure. The TLX has a harsh-shifting DCT tranny. Just to name a few.
Let's put it this way. Honda WAS reliable, but not any more in these recent days.
06-21-2017, 12:10 PM
#2600
Team Owner
Honda used to be trouble free. 