Honda: Development and Technology News
#2241
Moderator
#2242
I'm making a poor comparison?
I'm not the one comparing a newly redesigned and structurally updated for 2013 Civic to the 4 year old designed and pre-small overlap Kia Soul and Hyundai Elantra.
If Honda can design the ACE II-structured 2013 Civic to get a Good rating, then what's Honda's excuse for the 2013 Accord coupe not getting a Good score with its ACE II structure?
Must be Honda's cheapness.
So we're using Euro NCAP tests now? Okay, fine. Guess what? The Kia Soul got a 5 star Euro NCAP safety rating. The Kia Cee'd (Euro version of Forte) also got a 5 star Euro NCAP rating. And not to be left out, the Hyundai i30 (Euro version of Elantra) got a 5 star Euro NCAP rating too.
But knowing you, I'm sure you'll make up some
to dismiss them.
![rofl](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
If Honda can design the ACE II-structured 2013 Civic to get a Good rating, then what's Honda's excuse for the 2013 Accord coupe not getting a Good score with its ACE II structure?
![Ponder](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ponder.gif)
So we're using Euro NCAP tests now? Okay, fine. Guess what? The Kia Soul got a 5 star Euro NCAP safety rating. The Kia Cee'd (Euro version of Forte) also got a 5 star Euro NCAP rating. And not to be left out, the Hyundai i30 (Euro version of Elantra) got a 5 star Euro NCAP rating too.
But knowing you, I'm sure you'll make up some
![Bullshit](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/bs.gif)
Accord coupe is more of niche vehicle. it does not need to advertize for extreme safety for family type vehicles.
http://www.euroncap.com/results/2013.aspx
Honda Civic in 2012 was 94% that is pre ACE II.
http://www.euroncap.com/results/2012.aspx
#2243
Again not reading my posts properly. I said there is different percentages of safey even in 5 star rating. CRV is 93%.
Accord coupe is more of niche vehicle. it does not need to advertize for extreme safety for family type vehicles.
http://www.euroncap.com/results/2013.aspx
Honda Civic in 2012 was 94% that is pre ACE II.
http://www.euroncap.com/results/2012.aspx
Accord coupe is more of niche vehicle. it does not need to advertize for extreme safety for family type vehicles.
http://www.euroncap.com/results/2013.aspx
Honda Civic in 2012 was 94% that is pre ACE II.
http://www.euroncap.com/results/2012.aspx
#2244
Senior Moderator
Again not reading my posts properly. I said there is different percentages of safey even in 5 star rating. CRV is 93%.
Accord coupe is more of niche vehicle. it does not need to advertize for extreme safety for family type vehicles.
http://www.euroncap.com/results/2013.aspx
Honda Civic in 2012 was 94% that is pre ACE II.
http://www.euroncap.com/results/2012.aspx
Accord coupe is more of niche vehicle. it does not need to advertize for extreme safety for family type vehicles.
http://www.euroncap.com/results/2013.aspx
Honda Civic in 2012 was 94% that is pre ACE II.
http://www.euroncap.com/results/2012.aspx
![Why Me](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/whyme.gif)
Oh and QUIT using European crash test results and comparing them to US results. They use a much different set of standards and types of crash tests than the US.
Last edited by fsttyms1; 08-11-2013 at 08:14 AM.
The following users liked this post:
dom (08-12-2013)
#2246
Oh and QUIT using European crash test results and comparing them to US results. They use a much different set of standards and types of crash tests than the US.
Thats is excellent result for some thing finsih development in 2007.
The point is Kia forte has the worst publicity now. they already have worst for Edmunds long term tests in fuel economic.
http://www.latimes.com/business/auto...,4543797.story
Honda Civic tops small-car crash test, Kia Forte scores worst
The Honda Civic was the only small car to earn the top rating in an insurance industry test that seeks to measure damage and injuries from a crash into an immovable object such as a post or a tree.
The two- and four-door models of the Civic received a “good” rating in the important new test, conducted by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, an industry group.
Honda Civic tops small-car crash test, Kia Forte scores worst
The Honda Civic was the only small car to earn the top rating in an insurance industry test that seeks to measure damage and injuries from a crash into an immovable object such as a post or a tree.
The two- and four-door models of the Civic received a “good” rating in the important new test, conducted by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, an industry group.
#2248
I thought we were talking about family cars. An Italian supercar isn't a family car. Not only that, we were talking about how great Honda is and how cheap the Koreans are. What does any of that have to do with the Italians?
Wow. Praises the 2009 Accord's 86% score as excellent yet trys to dismiss the 2009 Kia Soul's 87% score (a vehicle that also "finsih development" around the same time) by saying it's not good enough since there's "different percentages of safey."
![Why Me](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/whyme.gif)
Last edited by AZuser; 08-11-2013 at 03:19 PM.
#2249
Why am I still subscribed to this thread...???
#2251
Senior Moderator
how is those italian supercars safety ratings in real world.
they are relevant as most cars are now designed for global. Euro Civic is Honda Fit platform. Even Euro Accord 2009 scored 86% on Euro tests.
Thats is excellent result for some thing finsih development in 2007.
The point is Kia forte has the worst publicity now. they already have worst for Edmunds long term tests in fuel economic.
they are relevant as most cars are now designed for global. Euro Civic is Honda Fit platform. Even Euro Accord 2009 scored 86% on Euro tests.
Thats is excellent result for some thing finsih development in 2007.
The point is Kia forte has the worst publicity now. they already have worst for Edmunds long term tests in fuel economic.
And NO, its NOT relevant. Cars are designed "Around" a global platform, BUT they still have MANY MANY different things designed for the different countries. US has a much different standard for crash tests than the EU and the cars are built differently using different materials.
#2252
ok what is the weight difference between Euro Accord and TSX?. weights pretty much give it indication when size is identical. Automakers are constrained by increase of weight to increase safety.
or what is weight difference between Euro CRV and USDM CRV?
or what is weight difference between Euro CRV and USDM CRV?
#2253
http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2...-fuel-economy/
New Honda Hybrid Bests Toyota in Fuel Economy
By Yoshio Takahashi
A new Japanese car has claimed domestic bragging the rights for the best fuel-economy rating—and it’s not a Toyota7203.TO +0.32%.
Honda Motor Co. said Friday that the hybrid version of the upcoming redesigned Fit compact was rated at 36.4 kilometers a liter, or about 85.6 miles a gallon, based on testing protocols by Japan’s transport ministry.
That beats the 35.4 kilometers a liter, or 83.2 mpg, fuel-economy rating achieved by Toyota Motor Corp.’s Aqua hybrid, heretofore the champion car in fuel efficiency in Japan.
The fuel-economy rating of the new Fit in other markets are not yet available, a Honda spokeswoman said. The tests conducted by the Japanese transport ministry are performed under different conditions from those done by overseas federal regulators such as the Environmental Protection Agency in the U.S., which takes various highway and city driving situations into consideration.
Winning the best fuel-economy rating is crucial for Honda as it relies on the new compact, one of the auto maker’s best-selling cars and known as the Jazz in some markets, to help reach its goal to sell six million vehicles by March 2017.
Japan’s third biggest carmaker by volume plans to release the Fit along with the City sedan and a small sport-utility vehicle over the next few years. Honda aims to have the three vehicles account for one-fourth of the sales target. Honda sold 3.8 million vehicles in 2012.
The Fit hybrid, set to debut in Japan in September, is Honda’s latest hybrid offering that trumps its counterpart from Toyota in fuel economy. The hybrid version of Honda’s Accord sedan, rolled out last month, boasts a fuel efficiency of 30.0 kilometers a liter, compared with 23.4 kilometers a liter for the rival Toyota Camry hybrid.
Honda’s stronger showing are the fruits of the Tokyo auto maker’s renewed focus to gain ground in the hybrid race as fuel economy becomes an increasingly important factor in Japanese consumers’ purchase decisions. Honda has lagged behind Toyota in hybrid systems since the latter began sweeping the market for gasoline-electric cars in the early 2000s. The Toyota Prius has since become synonymous with hybrid vehicles and has comfortably positioned itself as a household favorite.
The sport hybrid i-DCD system installed in the Fit hybrid and to be mounted in the upcoming small SUV is just one of the three new hybrid systems Honda has been working on to meet stricter emission regulations. The latest i-DCD system boasts 38% better fuel efficiency than the integrated motor assist system used in the current Fit hybrid.
But it’s unclear whether the higher fuel-economy vehicles will gain traction with consumers outside of Japan. Hybrid vehicles represent 20% of the domestic market, while accounting for only 2.7% and 0.5% of the autos markets in North America and Europe, respectively, according to research firm Fuji Keizai.
Adding pressure on Honda’s bet is a rash of new mini vehicles, a booming segment in an otherwise shrinking home market. These no-frills cars are conventional gasoline-engine vehicles but mini-vehicle specialists like Suzuki Motor Corp.7269.TO -1.10% and Daihatsu Motor Co.7262.TO -1.12% are offering cars with fuel economies that increasingly rival hybrids.
Suzuki launched the Alto Eco in March that gets about 33.0 kilometers a liter, or 77.6 mpg. Meanwhile Daihatsu is introducing the latest version of the Mira e:S with a rating of 33.4 kilometers a liter, according to a report in the Nikkei.
New Honda Hybrid Bests Toyota in Fuel Economy
By Yoshio Takahashi
A new Japanese car has claimed domestic bragging the rights for the best fuel-economy rating—and it’s not a Toyota7203.TO +0.32%.
Honda Motor Co. said Friday that the hybrid version of the upcoming redesigned Fit compact was rated at 36.4 kilometers a liter, or about 85.6 miles a gallon, based on testing protocols by Japan’s transport ministry.
That beats the 35.4 kilometers a liter, or 83.2 mpg, fuel-economy rating achieved by Toyota Motor Corp.’s Aqua hybrid, heretofore the champion car in fuel efficiency in Japan.
The fuel-economy rating of the new Fit in other markets are not yet available, a Honda spokeswoman said. The tests conducted by the Japanese transport ministry are performed under different conditions from those done by overseas federal regulators such as the Environmental Protection Agency in the U.S., which takes various highway and city driving situations into consideration.
Winning the best fuel-economy rating is crucial for Honda as it relies on the new compact, one of the auto maker’s best-selling cars and known as the Jazz in some markets, to help reach its goal to sell six million vehicles by March 2017.
Japan’s third biggest carmaker by volume plans to release the Fit along with the City sedan and a small sport-utility vehicle over the next few years. Honda aims to have the three vehicles account for one-fourth of the sales target. Honda sold 3.8 million vehicles in 2012.
The Fit hybrid, set to debut in Japan in September, is Honda’s latest hybrid offering that trumps its counterpart from Toyota in fuel economy. The hybrid version of Honda’s Accord sedan, rolled out last month, boasts a fuel efficiency of 30.0 kilometers a liter, compared with 23.4 kilometers a liter for the rival Toyota Camry hybrid.
Honda’s stronger showing are the fruits of the Tokyo auto maker’s renewed focus to gain ground in the hybrid race as fuel economy becomes an increasingly important factor in Japanese consumers’ purchase decisions. Honda has lagged behind Toyota in hybrid systems since the latter began sweeping the market for gasoline-electric cars in the early 2000s. The Toyota Prius has since become synonymous with hybrid vehicles and has comfortably positioned itself as a household favorite.
The sport hybrid i-DCD system installed in the Fit hybrid and to be mounted in the upcoming small SUV is just one of the three new hybrid systems Honda has been working on to meet stricter emission regulations. The latest i-DCD system boasts 38% better fuel efficiency than the integrated motor assist system used in the current Fit hybrid.
But it’s unclear whether the higher fuel-economy vehicles will gain traction with consumers outside of Japan. Hybrid vehicles represent 20% of the domestic market, while accounting for only 2.7% and 0.5% of the autos markets in North America and Europe, respectively, according to research firm Fuji Keizai.
Adding pressure on Honda’s bet is a rash of new mini vehicles, a booming segment in an otherwise shrinking home market. These no-frills cars are conventional gasoline-engine vehicles but mini-vehicle specialists like Suzuki Motor Corp.7269.TO -1.10% and Daihatsu Motor Co.7262.TO -1.12% are offering cars with fuel economies that increasingly rival hybrids.
Suzuki launched the Alto Eco in March that gets about 33.0 kilometers a liter, or 77.6 mpg. Meanwhile Daihatsu is introducing the latest version of the Mira e:S with a rating of 33.4 kilometers a liter, according to a report in the Nikkei.
#2254
Safety Car
![Arrow](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/icons/icon2.gif)
With a long-standing tradition of building compact, open-top sports cars that started with the S600 and recently ended with the S2000, Honda seems intent to get back into the game. After seeing the success Toyota/Subaru has had with the 86 (Scion FR-S/Subaru BRZ), Honda is primed to one-up its rivals. According to a source within Honda, a new affordable sports car is being seriously considered, but don’t expect something as high-end as the S2000…think small, quick and light. Here’s what we learned:
Many Honda engineers and executives believe that they were beat to the punch when Toyota/Subaru introduced its affordable rear-drive sports offering. And now that they know the market is hungry again for exciting affordable sports cars, a new “S1500” is on the drawing board within the walls of the company’s Tokyo headquarters. The car would be small, probably even smaller than the Mazda MX-5, and come equipped with either a 1.3-liter or 1.5-liter inline-4 with i-VTEC. If the latter, it could well be the current engine under the Fit’s hood that can produce up to 132 hp. The car would be very light, about 900 kg or right at about 2000 lb., making it very quick and agile. It would of course be rear-drive, and come with a 5-speed manual gearbox. Our source says he would like to see the car priced around $20,000. There’s even talk that the “S1500” may come with a mid-engine layout, a la the Honda Beat.
As for the car’s design direction, we hear that Honda would either use the Japan-only N-ONE as the base (as pictured here) or make it look more like the current Civic. We like the N-ONE styling because it pays homage to the S600. Either way, look for Honda to come up with this answer to the Toyota 86 and the Mazda MX-5 in 2015 or 2016.
![](http://www.gtchannel.com/sites/default/files/HONDA_1L_SPORT_Rear_Marked.jpg)
#2255
Some dude
And internet bro's bitch about the FR-S/BRZ needing more hp. I can't wait for more Fast & Furious comments.
![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
#2257
6G TLX-S
^^^^^
x2.
x2.
#2258
▒JDM ¥ KING▒
![](http://motormania.eu.com/MM/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/2011-Honda-EV-Ster-Concept.jpg)
EV-STER
It will look like this and will get turbo, around 200hp.
#2259
Senior Moderator
Honda never should have discontinued the S2000 in the first place.
The following users liked this post:
fsttyms1 (09-18-2013)
#2260
Team Owner
I am glad that at least Honda is trying
But WTF is the point of that thing???
There were so many reasons to pay the additional premium for S2000 over Miata.
Now with 1.3L, 5 fucking speed... why the hell would i wanna buy this over Miata??
But WTF is the point of that thing???
There were so many reasons to pay the additional premium for S2000 over Miata.
Now with 1.3L, 5 fucking speed... why the hell would i wanna buy this over Miata??
#2261
Team Owner
The following users liked this post:
Costco (09-18-2013)
#2262
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
![ugh](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ugh.gif)
#2263
Moderator
#2264
Safety Car
![Arrow](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/icons/icon2.gif)
Honda Motor Co. (7267), 1st to sell hybrids in the U.S., plans a gasoline-electric lineup overhaul starting with an Accord Hybrid it says tops Toyota Motor Corp. (7203) and Ford Motor Co. sedans as it seeks relevancy in the segment.
The 2014 version of Tokyo-based Honda’s flagship sedan goes on sale Oct. 31, with a base price comparable with a V-6 engine version of the Accord, and that’s rated as getting 50 miles (80 kilometers) per gallon in city driving. That’s just the start, said John Mendel, executive vice president of the U.S. unit.
Honda needs better-selling hybrids. Current models, including the Insight hatchback, CR-Z coupe and a version of the Civic, generate a fraction of Prius deliveries. Honda’s Insight beat the Toyota hybrid to the U.S. by about 6 months. Yet the company that led U.S. fuel economy ranking for years stumbled in designing a compelling challenger to Prius.
“Accord is a great place for us to stop the science experiments and really make a name for our hybrids,” Mendel said in an interview in San Antonio last week. “We’re known for fuel economy, but in hybrids, it’s about relevance and volume. We think Accord can do that.”
The Accord Hybrid’s label rating, a combined 47 mpg in city and highway driving based on U.S. government tests, ranks it behind only Prius, a mid-size car that averages 51 mpg in the city, 48 mpg on the highway and 50 mpg combined, the best of any non-rechargeable vehicle in the U.S.
While Ford (F)’s Fusion hybrid is also rated 47 mpg combined, Ford faces lawsuits claiming the car’s mileage is overstated. Toyota’s hybrid Camry averages a combined 41 mpg.
Prius’ Shadow
Toyota expects to sell 250,000 Prius models this year. By comparison, Honda’s current hybrid line is on a pace to sell about 19,000 vehicles this year.
Combined sales of hybrids, plug-in hybrids and battery-only autos are headed for a record this year. Through September U.S. car buyers bought about 450,000 such vehicles, based on data compiled by Bloomberg, up 28 percent from about 352,000 a year earlier. Last year was a record for electric-drive vehicles, with sales of about 475,000 cars and light trucks.
Honda anticipates sales of Accord Hybrid, priced from $29,155 to $34,905, will fall in the “2,500 to 4,000” units per month range of Ford’s Fusion Hybrid and the Toyota Camry Hybrid, Mendel said.
The Accord Hybrid’s new 2-motor powertrain has components adapted from Honda’s futuristic FCX Clarity hydrogen fuel-cell sedan and battery-electric Fit EV, Hiroo Shimada, the chief engineer who oversaw development of the Accord system, said in an interview.
Accord Sales
The Accord is the 2nd-best-selling mid-size sedan in the U.S. this year, with 282,102 deliveries, behind Camry’s 318,990. The pattern has changed little for more than a decade.
Following the Accord, the company this year also releases a 3-motor, all-wheel drive “sport hybrid” version of the premium Acura RLX sedan. A variation of its so-called SH-AWD powertrain will also be used in the 2015 NSX supercar Honda plans to build in Ohio, the company said.
For lower-priced small vehicles, Honda has a new single-motor, dual clutch powertrain that’s being used first on a version of the new Fit subcompact that’s gone on sale in Japan.
There’s no plan to sell Fit hybrids in the U.S. Still, the car’s gasoline-electric system may appear on other models, Mendel said.
“It’s a surprisingly fuel-efficient system,” he said.
New Models
New Honda and Acura hybrids are in the works, in part to help the company comply with the U.S. government’s push to double the average fuel efficiency of new vehicles by 2025, as well as to address volatile fuel prices, Mendel said. The company also wants to burnish its reputation as an industry leader in fuel economy and advanced technology, he said.
Accord Hybrid “can be a great entry point to establish our manufacturing prowess and development expertise in the hybrid area,” Mendel said. “50 miles a gallon is going to cut through.”
Honda’s American depositary receipts fell 1.2 percent to $37.91 at the close yesterday in New York. They have gained 2.6 percent this year, compared with a 14 percent advance in the benchmark NYSE Composite Index.
To contact the reporters on this story: Alan Ohnsman in Los Angeles at aohnsman@bloomberg.net
To contact the editor responsible for this story: Jamie Butters at jbutters@bloomberg.net
#2265
I'm the Firestarter
I'll consider a hybrid IF it doesn't compromise on trunk space. IMO that's what Toyota does right, their good-selling hybrids like the Prius and CT200h are designed from the start with batteries in mind and have flat folding floors. I won't even consider a sedan that has 9 cu ft of trunk space and no folding rear seats.
#2266
Senior Moderator
Honda planning a V8
Honda planning a V8... But not until 2015..
Discuss..........................
http://www.edmunds.com/autoobserver-...ntil-2015.html
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/11/28/h...oming-in-2015/
Discuss..........................
http://www.edmunds.com/autoobserver-...ntil-2015.html
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/11/28/h...oming-in-2015/
Maybe dreams do come true, after all. Americans who have long yearned for Honda to develop a production-car V8 engine may finally be getting their wish -- if recent comments made by Honda president Takeo Fukui are any guide.
In a recent media interview, Fukui was quoted as saying that Honda was now planning to strengthen the Acura brand with a production V8.
Why? Because the 3.7-liter V6 currently installed in the newly face-lifted RL, the range-topper for Honda's upscale Acura sales channel -- wasn't "sufficient" to compete with other premium brands, he said.
Just don't take it to mean a Honda V8 is around the corner.
Fukui seemed to be acknowledging what owners, media and dealers have been saying for years: that in a premium-market shoot-out with Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Lexus and others, Acura has long been hampered by sticking resolutely to a V6 for its flagship RL -- when eight-cylinder engines have long been deemed the minimum price of admission.
Well-placed Honda insiders, though, recommend a note of caution: There is no V8 in the immediate product-development pipeline, they insist, contradicting excited reports that Acura's first V8 would bow "within 18 months."
President Fukui, they say, was talking generally, more into the future with the V8, rather than about the near term. Indeed, the next redesign for the Acura RL, due around 2010 or 2011 will stick with a V6, according to a source familiar with the program, so it's the generation after that -- scheduled for around 2015 -- that will get the V8.
And something more.
History of Contrarianism
When it comes to engines, Honda may well be one of the world's leading-edge developers, but the company often has had a unique take on what it decides to serve up.
On one hand, American Honda was not intellectually opposed to developing a full-blooded, 3.5-liter V8, generating more than 650 horsepower, for the Indy Racing League (an engine so dominant it now powers every car in the series).
And next year, Acura also will pull covers on what's sure to be a superlative, clean-sheet V10 with rumored 5-liter capacity for the long-awaited replacement for Acura's NSX supercar.
With all this experience, Honda could easily design and build a world-beating V8, but many of the company's key engineers are ideologically against it, believing a V8 for production models to be too big, too heavy, and too wasteful -- simply unnecessary alongside their lighter, power-dense and more-economical V6s.
Honda iCTDI 2.2-liter diesel engine.jpg Americans have seen this purist ideology in action before. Remember the first four-cylinder Odyssey minivan from the mid-'90s? Honda's logic was that four cylinders were "enough." The market thought otherwise -- and eventually Honda caved in. The same logic applies to the V8 that's yet to appear in the Ridgeline truck.
As Honda engineers see it, four cylinders are lighter, simpler, more efficient, more technologically ideal and better for economy. Never mind what the customer wants.
And given the frenetic surge in gas prices this year and economic turmoil, Honda would seem to have got that particular call about right.
A V8 -- If It Must Be
Toyota and Nissan have the market positioning and history to do V8s, but for Honda/Acura, it's a much tougher call. Honda, it is known, quietly developed a one-off, rear-wheel-drive Legend/RL with a V8 sometime back in the early 2000s, but the program ended up being axed.
First, because the V8 didn't offer that much of an advantage over Honda's existing
V6, or so word has it.
Second, Honda reputedly looked at the sales numbers for Acura's main rivals, Lexus and Infiniti, and pondered if its car could do better in the same dogfight.
And third, emulating the others and being last to the party is not the Honda way.
So the company reconfigured the Legend/RL to be more of a European Audi-type competitor with strong technical emphasis on all-wheel drive. On paper, the Legend/Acura RL has plenty going for it but without the cachet of a V8 for the American market (and diesel in Europe), the car has always been a slow burn.
Still, engineers at Honda R&D stubbornly refused to countenance the V8 option. But now, recent comments by CEO Fukui finally indicate a change of tack.
The new V8, he said, would be completely different from conventional practice and have excellent fuel economy. Given Honda's stellar track record when it does commit to a new engine, the market surely would not expect anything less.
Equally Big News -- A New Rear-Drive Acura Lineup
The V8 is being readied for an all-new Acura flagship, an insider source says, adding that behind the scenes, Honda has secretly laid down the plans for a completely fresh range of cars -- using all-new, rear-drive architecture -- specifically to target the BMW 3, 5 and 7 Series.
The program reportedly still is at the basic planning stage. But following Honda's current new-model development schedule, the V8 would debut in an Acura flagship sedan targeted at the 7 Series and debuting in 2015.
One hurdle for Honda would seem to be the European Union, where carbon-dioxide regulations are rapidly reshaping demand for big luxury sedans.
As of today, Honda Europe has no interest in a V8. "Absolutely no plans to bring a V8 to Europe," a spokesman commented. "There would be no market for such a power unit in the current climate."
Still, Honda's Fukui, no stranger to bold pronouncements, nonetheless has set the V8 ball in motion. It's surely the engine Acura needs to cut it at the head table.
In a recent media interview, Fukui was quoted as saying that Honda was now planning to strengthen the Acura brand with a production V8.
Why? Because the 3.7-liter V6 currently installed in the newly face-lifted RL, the range-topper for Honda's upscale Acura sales channel -- wasn't "sufficient" to compete with other premium brands, he said.
Just don't take it to mean a Honda V8 is around the corner.
Fukui seemed to be acknowledging what owners, media and dealers have been saying for years: that in a premium-market shoot-out with Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Lexus and others, Acura has long been hampered by sticking resolutely to a V6 for its flagship RL -- when eight-cylinder engines have long been deemed the minimum price of admission.
Well-placed Honda insiders, though, recommend a note of caution: There is no V8 in the immediate product-development pipeline, they insist, contradicting excited reports that Acura's first V8 would bow "within 18 months."
President Fukui, they say, was talking generally, more into the future with the V8, rather than about the near term. Indeed, the next redesign for the Acura RL, due around 2010 or 2011 will stick with a V6, according to a source familiar with the program, so it's the generation after that -- scheduled for around 2015 -- that will get the V8.
And something more.
History of Contrarianism
When it comes to engines, Honda may well be one of the world's leading-edge developers, but the company often has had a unique take on what it decides to serve up.
On one hand, American Honda was not intellectually opposed to developing a full-blooded, 3.5-liter V8, generating more than 650 horsepower, for the Indy Racing League (an engine so dominant it now powers every car in the series).
And next year, Acura also will pull covers on what's sure to be a superlative, clean-sheet V10 with rumored 5-liter capacity for the long-awaited replacement for Acura's NSX supercar.
With all this experience, Honda could easily design and build a world-beating V8, but many of the company's key engineers are ideologically against it, believing a V8 for production models to be too big, too heavy, and too wasteful -- simply unnecessary alongside their lighter, power-dense and more-economical V6s.
Honda iCTDI 2.2-liter diesel engine.jpg Americans have seen this purist ideology in action before. Remember the first four-cylinder Odyssey minivan from the mid-'90s? Honda's logic was that four cylinders were "enough." The market thought otherwise -- and eventually Honda caved in. The same logic applies to the V8 that's yet to appear in the Ridgeline truck.
As Honda engineers see it, four cylinders are lighter, simpler, more efficient, more technologically ideal and better for economy. Never mind what the customer wants.
And given the frenetic surge in gas prices this year and economic turmoil, Honda would seem to have got that particular call about right.
A V8 -- If It Must Be
Toyota and Nissan have the market positioning and history to do V8s, but for Honda/Acura, it's a much tougher call. Honda, it is known, quietly developed a one-off, rear-wheel-drive Legend/RL with a V8 sometime back in the early 2000s, but the program ended up being axed.
First, because the V8 didn't offer that much of an advantage over Honda's existing
V6, or so word has it.
Second, Honda reputedly looked at the sales numbers for Acura's main rivals, Lexus and Infiniti, and pondered if its car could do better in the same dogfight.
And third, emulating the others and being last to the party is not the Honda way.
So the company reconfigured the Legend/RL to be more of a European Audi-type competitor with strong technical emphasis on all-wheel drive. On paper, the Legend/Acura RL has plenty going for it but without the cachet of a V8 for the American market (and diesel in Europe), the car has always been a slow burn.
Still, engineers at Honda R&D stubbornly refused to countenance the V8 option. But now, recent comments by CEO Fukui finally indicate a change of tack.
The new V8, he said, would be completely different from conventional practice and have excellent fuel economy. Given Honda's stellar track record when it does commit to a new engine, the market surely would not expect anything less.
Equally Big News -- A New Rear-Drive Acura Lineup
The V8 is being readied for an all-new Acura flagship, an insider source says, adding that behind the scenes, Honda has secretly laid down the plans for a completely fresh range of cars -- using all-new, rear-drive architecture -- specifically to target the BMW 3, 5 and 7 Series.
The program reportedly still is at the basic planning stage. But following Honda's current new-model development schedule, the V8 would debut in an Acura flagship sedan targeted at the 7 Series and debuting in 2015.
One hurdle for Honda would seem to be the European Union, where carbon-dioxide regulations are rapidly reshaping demand for big luxury sedans.
As of today, Honda Europe has no interest in a V8. "Absolutely no plans to bring a V8 to Europe," a spokesman commented. "There would be no market for such a power unit in the current climate."
Still, Honda's Fukui, no stranger to bold pronouncements, nonetheless has set the V8 ball in motion. It's surely the engine Acura needs to cut it at the head table.
The following users liked this post:
Costco (10-21-2013)
#2268
Moderator
<-----Will believe it when I see it.
The following users liked this post:
Costco (10-21-2013)
#2271
אני עומד עם ישראל
April fools?
#2272
Is V8 even in Honda's vocabulary?
#2273
Drifting
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Age: 42
Posts: 3,490
Received 853 Likes
on
606 Posts
They don't necessarily need a V8, just a well engineered and tuned V6. Most of the J-series engines can be mildly boosted with current stock internals to put out 350-400hp. With upgraded internals, closer to 500hp.
#2274
6G TLX-S
^^^^^
But Honda/Acura doesn't like to use force induction technology. The only production vehicle turbo engine, as used on the 1G RDX, has been discontinued.
Even with Honda's expertise in engine tuning, there is ZERO chance that a naturally-aspirated V6 engine can hit 350hp without turbocharging or supercharging assist.
But Honda/Acura doesn't like to use force induction technology. The only production vehicle turbo engine, as used on the 1G RDX, has been discontinued.
Even with Honda's expertise in engine tuning, there is ZERO chance that a naturally-aspirated V6 engine can hit 350hp without turbocharging or supercharging assist.
#2275
Race Director
![Too Cool](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/toocool.gif)
#2276
I'd wager there are at least 10-12 new topics annually about Honda making a V8 on some sort of forum or discussion board on the internet. And with every passing year, it never happens.
Even the to-be flagship NSX replacement which was one rumored to boast a V10, then a V8, is now back to what Honda clearly does best - V6s!
Even the to-be flagship NSX replacement which was one rumored to boast a V10, then a V8, is now back to what Honda clearly does best - V6s!
![Roll Eyes](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
The following users liked this post:
phile (10-21-2013)
#2277
Senior Moderator
The "V" in V8 stands for "Vapor".
![:O](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/embarrassment.gif)
#2279
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
#2280
6G TLX-S
Dated back to 1997, Honda had already achieved 108.5hp/liter with the 195hp 1.8L-I4 with a 8,500 redline rpm, as used on the notorious Integra Type-R (only available with manual transmission).
However, Honda R&D doesn't enjoy the same success with it's J-series SOHC V6 (used in all Honda/Acura V6 products except the NSX) in hitting the 100hp/liter goal.
Not even the C-series DOHC V6, as last used on the 2005 NSX, could crack the 100hp/liter barrier.
Even for the latest generation Direct-Injected SOHC 3.5L-V6 as used on the Acura flagship sedan, Honda is only able to crank out 310hp.
Unless Honda is willing to spend huge sums in developing a brand new DI, i-VTEC, DOHC 3.5L-V6 with possibly 8,000-9,000 redline rpm, otherwise there is little hope that it's naturally-aspirated non-hybrid SOHC 3.5L-V6 can break the 100hp/liter output barrier.
Besides, a high-revving V6 is perfectly ok to be used in sport cars, such as the NSX, when paired with a manual transmission so that the engine rev can be kept high (5000-8000rpm) at all times for maximum power.
You are right that this engine isn't gonna be very driveable in a luxury sedan especially when paired with an auto transmission.