Genesis: G70 News
Ex-OEM King
Joined: Dec 2013
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From: Minnesnowta
Strangely, everyone that I know that has driven or owned a dual clutch Evo X has said that is absolutely horrendous. Small sample size, but still...it mostly comes down to how it handled daily driving duties - which is usually the driving force behind people option for the dual clutch in the first place.
Last edited by SamDoe1; Jan 18, 2019 at 01:39 PM.
Other than what pushes in the clutch pedal, the SMG is a manual in every other way. There are a lot of people that have swapped an E46 M3 from SMG to manual without changing the actual the transmission. Yes, I've driven one. Yes, they suck. It's not because it's an auto, it's because the software and tuning is terrible. FWIW, manuals are absolutely awful, and perform just like a SMG, if you can't drive one well because YOU end up being the software. The SMG just feels like a manual driven by a 16 year old first learning to drive a stick...and never improves.
As with everything else, only time will tell if the latest breed of automatic transmissions are capable of equaling or exceeding the good driving experiences, efficiency, and longevity of manual transmission technology which is now decades old. I suspect there may be a very few which will be heralded a decade or two from now as being reliable over the long term. For cars with lesser automatics, the owner's will be saddled with cars which either return a piss poor driving experience, and/or needing to pony up thousands of dollars to get the transmissions replaced/repaired.
Azine Jabroni
Joined: May 2013
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From: Austin, TX
As with everything else, only time will tell if the latest breed of automatic transmissions are capable of equaling or exceeding the good driving experiences, efficiency, and longevity of manual transmission technology which is now decades old. I suspect there may be a very few which will be heralded a decade or two from now as being reliable over the long term. For cars with lesser automatics, the owner's will be saddled with cars which either return a piss poor driving experience, and/or needing to pony up thousands of dollars to get the transmissions replaced/repaired.
Some are, some are not. Yes, many achieve higher EPA ratings, but in the real world, I've yet to see any consistent indicators of that. Looking at Fuely and other web sites where folks post real-world mileage and you'll see what I mean.
Ex-OEM King
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From: Minnesnowta
Well no, untrue. If you follow the strict constructs of our language, which is very good at describing technical things, the SMG is a "semi-automatic" transmission; no other description is correct. Yes, the SMG shares the mechanical gearbox with cars with three pedals under the dash, that in no way makes it a "manual".
Hmmm, I think you missed my point on this one. What I was trying to convey, is the cost (dollar and resource wise) and complexity of developing a very efficient transmission with good longevity and reliability and returning a good driving experience, is extremely high. Can it be done? Yeah, I'd imagine the ZF8 meets all of those requirements except for maybe longevity (jury is still out on that metric).
As with everything else, only time will tell if the latest breed of automatic transmissions are capable of equaling or exceeding the good driving experiences, efficiency, and longevity of manual transmission technology which is now decades old. I suspect there may be a very few which will be heralded a decade or two from now as being reliable over the long term. For cars with lesser automatics, the owner's will be saddled with cars which either return a piss poor driving experience, and/or needing to pony up thousands of dollars to get the transmissions replaced/repaired.
As with everything else, only time will tell if the latest breed of automatic transmissions are capable of equaling or exceeding the good driving experiences, efficiency, and longevity of manual transmission technology which is now decades old. I suspect there may be a very few which will be heralded a decade or two from now as being reliable over the long term. For cars with lesser automatics, the owner's will be saddled with cars which either return a piss poor driving experience, and/or needing to pony up thousands of dollars to get the transmissions replaced/repaired.
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Team Owner
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From: Los Angeles
Team Owner
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From: Los Angeles
To be fair, you're living a bit in the past on this one. the 3G TL and the 7G Accord both used a flawed design transmission, similar to how the TLX (and others) use the flawed ZF9. On the flip side, cars that have a ZF8 transmission are lauded to be better to drive (faster and more efficient) than their manual counterparts without the issue of catastrophic failure. Technology has advanced incredibly far in the 10 years since the 3G TL and 7G Accord went out of production and modern automatics are FAR better than they used to be. Comparing a decade old Honda transmission to the best modern German box is a bit of a stretch.
You know that the SMG in the E60 M5 and the E46 M3 are manual transmissions with a computer actuated clutch right? That's what SMG stands for Sequential MANUAL Gearbox.
The SMG was, and is, a POS just by design and the lack of proper computing power and tuning to make it good. A modern DSG is also basically a computer actuated manual but the tuning of today is far better than before.
.
You know that the SMG in the E60 M5 and the E46 M3 are manual transmissions with a computer actuated clutch right? That's what SMG stands for Sequential MANUAL Gearbox.
The SMG was, and is, a POS just by design and the lack of proper computing power and tuning to make it good. A modern DSG is also basically a computer actuated manual but the tuning of today is far better than before.
.
Last edited by oonowindoo; Jan 18, 2019 at 05:42 PM.
Azine Jabroni
Joined: May 2013
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From: Austin, TX
This. If it's not literally manual (aka, done by a man), it's not a manual. It's an Automatic.
If you follow the strict constructs of our language, which is very good at describing technical things, SMG literally stands for Sequential MANUAL Gearbox. It's literally in the name. Nowhere does it say it's a "semi-automatic" gearbox, even though that's what it actually is. Though I still maintain it's ability to work the clutch is akin to a teenager learning to drive.
Apparently you haven't been following EPA testing over the years. The EPA testing is an epic fail when it comes to replicating real world driving; if they did that in a repeatable way, the results might well be relevant; as the test stands now, it is more larceny than science.
I've driven both, a co-worker of mine bought an E60 M5 with the SMG, hated it, sold it, and bought one with the 6MT. While not as enjoyable as his previous E39 M5, the 6MT E60 was far superior to the SMG version.
Team Owner
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From: Los Angeles
The issue with E60 M5 6mt, is they literally took the 6mt that is designed for another car and forced it to the M5, the result is the car always felt off.
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Coupe Render
https://www.motor1.com/news/317504/g...-coupe-render/
In addition to slicing off two doors, the artist here gives the G70 Coupe the pointy grille like the G90. The roofline is also slightly different by gaining a more acute arch since rear passenger headroom is less of a concern, and the change makes the rear more attractive.
There are reasons to suspect that a G70 Coupe isn't too farfetched to join the lineup eventually. In 2015, execs said that the Genesis lineup would eventually include a "sports type coupe," and a leaked product roadmap in 2016 showed a "near luxury sport coupe" coming in 2020. A promo video in 2017 also briefly showed a clay model that was possibly the two-door.
The Genesis G70 might have a performance variant eventually that would sit above the existing top model with a 3.3-liter, 365-horsepower (272-kilowatt) twin-turbo V6. This would give the brand a natural competitor against the likes of the BMW M3 and other performance sedans. Creating a coupe with this powertrain would then make an M4 challenger.
A very different Genesis coupe might debut at the upcoming New York Auto Show. Luc Donckerwolke, head of Hyundai Group design, confirms that an electric concept is arriving there. We don't have any official details yet, but speculation suggests that it could be a new version of the Essentia concept EV. The current one is an electric supercar capable of hitting 60 miles per hour (96 kilometers per hour in about three seconds.
https://www.motor1.com/news/317504/g...-coupe-render/
A Genesis coupe might actually join the range at some point.
The Genesis brand is still growing, and a rendering from the Genesis G70 Forum imagines how the sedan might look if the luxury automaker ever decides that it wants to add a coupe to the range. The tweaks make for a handsome two-door.In addition to slicing off two doors, the artist here gives the G70 Coupe the pointy grille like the G90. The roofline is also slightly different by gaining a more acute arch since rear passenger headroom is less of a concern, and the change makes the rear more attractive.
There are reasons to suspect that a G70 Coupe isn't too farfetched to join the lineup eventually. In 2015, execs said that the Genesis lineup would eventually include a "sports type coupe," and a leaked product roadmap in 2016 showed a "near luxury sport coupe" coming in 2020. A promo video in 2017 also briefly showed a clay model that was possibly the two-door.
The Genesis G70 might have a performance variant eventually that would sit above the existing top model with a 3.3-liter, 365-horsepower (272-kilowatt) twin-turbo V6. This would give the brand a natural competitor against the likes of the BMW M3 and other performance sedans. Creating a coupe with this powertrain would then make an M4 challenger.
A very different Genesis coupe might debut at the upcoming New York Auto Show. Luc Donckerwolke, head of Hyundai Group design, confirms that an electric concept is arriving there. We don't have any official details yet, but speculation suggests that it could be a new version of the Essentia concept EV. The current one is an electric supercar capable of hitting 60 miles per hour (96 kilometers per hour in about three seconds.
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Funny thing: I sat in both the G70 3.3T, Lexus RC-F and RC 350 today at the DC auto show. The G70 is clearly a more than viable alternative to the Lexus. A coupe version could seriously take it to the standard bearers in this segment. (For the record, both RCs have some seriously uncomfortable seats.)
This being my first in-person examination of the G70, Acura should be ashamed of themselves for letting Hyundai completely leapfrog them like this.
This being my first in-person examination of the G70, Acura should be ashamed of themselves for letting Hyundai completely leapfrog them like this.
Punk Rocker
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: St Simons Island, GA
Wow, that G70 coupe render looks amazing (I know its just a fan render but still)! I could definitely see something like that finally offering real competition to the likes of the M4 and RS5 provided they did something special with the power train above and beyond the (already great) 3.3t in the sedan. Oh, and also needs a true manual version offered.
Three Wheelin'
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From: Northern VA
I can think of a very good reason, market differentiation. I can think of another, cherry-picking us manual drivers with no other alternative. At some point someone is going to figure out there are still a lot of us out there and even some behind us (like both of my kids) who refuse to drive cars with fewer than three pedals under the dash (old school parking brake pedals don't count, if they did, then my 1970 challenger had four pedals under the dash).
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Wondering if they'll be like the Stinger, where the much better deal was to lease them. Stingers were getting something like $7,500 (GT2 Trim; Premium was only about $2k) in rebates on leases, but only $500 on finance.
Buyers were leasing them & flipping it into finance the next day to get the full discounts.
Buyers were leasing them & flipping it into finance the next day to get the full discounts.
Punk Rocker
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From: St Simons Island, GA
Man, I dunno what you were expecting to be honest? Kia sold 17k Stingers in 2018 which is a pretty solid number considering its a niche vehicle ($40-$50k sport sedan/hatchback made by KIA!!!), everybody is buying SUVs right now, and it is not an established model like the M3, Q50, or the S4 etc. I'm also not sure why you think that the Stinger's overall sales numbers would be any influence to Genesis with regard to offering a manual transmission in the G70 (which they already do, just on the 4-cylinder)? All Stingers have auto transmissions, they are from a completely different brand, and different segment of the market.
Team Owner
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From: Los Angeles
So you think Hyundai will offer 6mt with the 6 cylinders? i am not sure what you are trying to say.
I would not call it a niche vehicle... it has 4 doors and seat 4-5 people... Just because it is made by KIA does not make it niche.
I think you just answered your own questions, in today's SUV market, why would Hyundai, KIA, or Genesis spend the $$ to implement 6mt with the 6 cylinders.
1 reason they would offer is if there is enough demand and 1 way to show that is through sales #. if Hyundai sees KIA's sales # (same company to me), i dont think they would want to spend the $$ to implement 6mt in the G70 6 cylinders. It just does not make any business sense...
and you and i both know that there is just not enough demand. With auto being as good as they are, DSG will be the next to go, let alone revive manuals.
Maybe i forgot to mention, i was talking about the 6 cylinders mt.... i personally dont care about the 4 cylinders.
if you asked me what i was really expecting from the Stinger? i honestly thought it was going to sell close to 3k a month when it first came out....
I would not call it a niche vehicle... it has 4 doors and seat 4-5 people... Just because it is made by KIA does not make it niche.
I think you just answered your own questions, in today's SUV market, why would Hyundai, KIA, or Genesis spend the $$ to implement 6mt with the 6 cylinders.
1 reason they would offer is if there is enough demand and 1 way to show that is through sales #. if Hyundai sees KIA's sales # (same company to me), i dont think they would want to spend the $$ to implement 6mt in the G70 6 cylinders. It just does not make any business sense...
and you and i both know that there is just not enough demand. With auto being as good as they are, DSG will be the next to go, let alone revive manuals.
Maybe i forgot to mention, i was talking about the 6 cylinders mt.... i personally dont care about the 4 cylinders.
if you asked me what i was really expecting from the Stinger? i honestly thought it was going to sell close to 3k a month when it first came out....
Last edited by oonowindoo; Apr 12, 2019 at 06:12 PM.
Punk Rocker
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From: St Simons Island, GA
You have to remember that the Stinger is (overall) a pretty expensive car, it is in no way conservatively styled to appeal to a mass audience, and Kia itself is still trying to reverse the stigma and brand perception they have here in the US. Given all of that, I think they sold more than enough units to consider the product a significant success. My main point above about the manual transmission thing was just that the Stinger sales don't necessarily affect Genesis or the G70; a brand and model that is going for a completely different portion of the market. Do I personally think they will ever offer a manual with the 6-cylinder? Of course not, almost nobody does. I'm just saying that if they truly wanted to make a statement with a proposed G70 coupe the fastest way to attain sports car legitimacy would be to offer a MT.
Null and proud of it
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You'll Never Walk Alone
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Man, I dunno what you were expecting to be honest? Kia sold 17k Stingers in 2018 which is a pretty solid number considering its a niche vehicle ($40-$50k sport sedan/hatchback made by KIA!!!), everybody is buying SUVs right now, and it is not an established model like the M3, Q50, or the S4 etc. I'm also not sure why you think that the Stinger's overall sales numbers would be any influence to Genesis with regard to offering a manual transmission in the G70 (which they already do, just on the 4-cylinder)? All Stingers have auto transmissions, they are from a completely different brand, and different segment of the market.
So you think Hyundai will offer 6mt with the 6 cylinders? i am not sure what you are trying to say.
I would not call it a niche vehicle... it has 4 doors and seat 4-5 people... Just because it is made by KIA does not make it niche.
I think you just answered your own questions, in today's SUV market, why would Hyundai, KIA, or Genesis spend the $$ to implement 6mt with the 6 cylinders.
1 reason they would offer is if there is enough demand and 1 way to show that is through sales #. if Hyundai sees KIA's sales # (same company to me), i dont think they would want to spend the $$ to implement 6mt in the G70 6 cylinders. It just does not make any business sense...
and you and i both know that there is just not enough demand. With auto being as good as they are, DSG will be the next to go, let alone revive manuals.
Maybe i forgot to mention, i was talking about the 6 cylinders mt.... i personally dont care about the 4 cylinders.
if you asked me what i was really expecting from the Stinger? i honestly thought it was going to sell close to 3k a month when it first came out....
I would not call it a niche vehicle... it has 4 doors and seat 4-5 people... Just because it is made by KIA does not make it niche.
I think you just answered your own questions, in today's SUV market, why would Hyundai, KIA, or Genesis spend the $$ to implement 6mt with the 6 cylinders.
1 reason they would offer is if there is enough demand and 1 way to show that is through sales #. if Hyundai sees KIA's sales # (same company to me), i dont think they would want to spend the $$ to implement 6mt in the G70 6 cylinders. It just does not make any business sense...
and you and i both know that there is just not enough demand. With auto being as good as they are, DSG will be the next to go, let alone revive manuals.
Maybe i forgot to mention, i was talking about the 6 cylinders mt.... i personally dont care about the 4 cylinders.
if you asked me what i was really expecting from the Stinger? i honestly thought it was going to sell close to 3k a month when it first came out....
You have to remember that the Stinger is (overall) a pretty expensive car, it is in no way conservatively styled to appeal to a mass audience, and Kia itself is still trying to reverse the stigma and brand perception they have here in the US. Given all of that, I think they sold more than enough units to consider the product a significant success. My main point above about the manual transmission thing was just that the Stinger sales don't necessarily affect Genesis or the G70; a brand and model that is going for a completely different portion of the market. Do I personally think they will ever offer a manual with the 6-cylinder? Of course not, almost nobody does. I'm just saying that if they truly wanted to make a statement with a proposed G70 coupe the fastest way to attain sports car legitimacy would be to offer a MT.
The Stinger starts at $33k before considering any deals. You can also lease one for $300/month. While the Stinger GT is probably like $40k+, the 1700 Stingers sold would include the base 2.0T model. Given that it's a $30k+ car that is reasonably new, I think 1700 cars sold seems a little low. It's essentially in the same price range as a 3 series, C Class, TLX, A4, IS, etc.
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https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...sis-g70-price/
The Genesis G70 sports sedan is entering its second model year with a few minor changes and a slight price uptick. The good news is that the manual transmission remains part of the lineup, although we had heard initially that it might be a single-year proposition.
Even though very few people bought it—Genesis says the six-speed manual has made up only 4 percent of all G70 2.0T sales so far—we think it's admirable that the company is keeping it around. It's the only car in its segment that offers a stick shift anymore, now that the BMW, Audi, Cadillac, and others have dropped their manual options. (Of course, now that we've driven the G70 6MT we know that the six-speed that pairs with the standard 2.0-liter is not much to write home about, but that's besides the point; we appreciate its existence regardless.)
The rest of the lineup is much the same as before, with prices going up a few hundred dollars for most trim levels. The 2.0T model starts at $36,445, a $550 uptick, the 3.3T model starts at $47,095, a $600 rise, and the stand-alone 2.0T Sport M/T trim level with the manual transmission starts at $39,495, $600 more than before. All-wheel drive remains a $2000 option for all automatic-transmission models, and the various Elite, Prestige, and Sport trim levels remain.
Newly available is a brown leather interior option, performance brakes for 2.0T Sport models, a slightly different wheel finish for the 18-inch wheels, and a power trunk lid for the 3.3T Prestige model.
Even though very few people bought it—Genesis says the six-speed manual has made up only 4 percent of all G70 2.0T sales so far—we think it's admirable that the company is keeping it around. It's the only car in its segment that offers a stick shift anymore, now that the BMW, Audi, Cadillac, and others have dropped their manual options. (Of course, now that we've driven the G70 6MT we know that the six-speed that pairs with the standard 2.0-liter is not much to write home about, but that's besides the point; we appreciate its existence regardless.)
The rest of the lineup is much the same as before, with prices going up a few hundred dollars for most trim levels. The 2.0T model starts at $36,445, a $550 uptick, the 3.3T model starts at $47,095, a $600 rise, and the stand-alone 2.0T Sport M/T trim level with the manual transmission starts at $39,495, $600 more than before. All-wheel drive remains a $2000 option for all automatic-transmission models, and the various Elite, Prestige, and Sport trim levels remain.
Newly available is a brown leather interior option, performance brakes for 2.0T Sport models, a slightly different wheel finish for the 18-inch wheels, and a power trunk lid for the 3.3T Prestige model.
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The lowest priced 2.0T Sport with MT (MSRP $39K) is $37K
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Ex-OEM King
Joined: Dec 2013
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From: Minnesnowta
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...0625/overview/
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...0757/overview/
Here's a manual one for $33k
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...2278/overview/
And seeing as though these are a year old and have less than 100 miles on the clock...yeah I'd call that dogshit depreciation.
