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Old 08-30-2018, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1 View Post
The wastegate is used to modulate boost pressure so even though you're cruising down the highway at a static 75mph with the engine turning at ~3k rpm, there's little boost going into the engine since it's not needed. The minute you stomp on the gas, the gate closes and all hell breaks loose. Also, your fuel economy goes to shit.
Ummm, I rather doubt any (and I do mean ANY) car with a factory turbo installation will have the wastegate open while tooling down the highway at a static 75 MPH; the load on the engine is extremely low at that point and the turbine will be generating very little boost. Said another way, no, the wastegate doesn't close when you step on it, the turbine spins up and all hell breaks loose.
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Old 08-30-2018, 04:37 PM
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Isn't that true for all turbo applications though? If you're driving a 1985 turbo dodge shadow, and you're just cruising at the speed limit down the highway, it's the same scenario, is it not? And this is when turbos were still rather archaic.
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Old 08-30-2018, 04:39 PM
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Hmm I'm more inclined to go with horseshoez on this one. That was always my understanding anyway

Hey mods, can we move all this turbo talk out of the Genesis thread and create another one in cartalk?
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Old 08-30-2018, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by TacoBello View Post
Hey mods, can we move all this turbo talk out of the Genesis thread and create another one in cartalk?
Meh, par for the course to a thread until there's something relevant to talk about
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Old 08-30-2018, 05:10 PM
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Better this than Saintor talking about his one and only experience with turbo cars from the 1980s.
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Old 08-30-2018, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by TacoBello View Post
Isn't that true for all turbo applications though? If you're driving a 1985 turbo dodge shadow, and you're just cruising at the speed limit down the highway, it's the same scenario, is it not? And this is when turbos were still rather archaic.
Agreed. I had a 1985 Daytona Turbo (with a boost gauge on the dash); unless I was climbing a very steep grade at high speed at high altitude (like higher than 8,000' MSL), the boost gauge never-ever showed I was in boost unless I was accelerating.
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Old 08-30-2018, 07:26 PM
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me boosta!
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Old 08-30-2018, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by horseshoez View Post
Ummm, I rather doubt any (and I do mean ANY) car with a factory turbo installation will have the wastegate open while tooling down the highway at a static 75 MPH; the load on the engine is extremely low at that point and the turbine will be generating very little boost. Said another way, no, the wastegate doesn't close when you step on it, the turbine spins up and all hell breaks loose.
The flow of exhaust gasses from the engine is related to the rpm of the motor. If you step on it, it'll take time to build those revs up and that's why the wastegate is used to modulate pressure. For example, my car has a factory boost gauge built in and if you're just driving along it reads ~3.5-4psi or something like that. The minute I stab the throttle, without increasing engine speed much, the boost gauge will jump to 13psi+ almost instantly. This is because the wastegate closes...which is the point of the wastegate.
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Old 08-30-2018, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1 View Post
The flow of exhaust gasses from the engine is related to the rpm of the motor. If you step on it, it'll take time to build those revs up and that's why the wastegate is used to modulate pressure. For example, my car has a factory boost gauge built in and if you're just driving along it reads ~3.5-4psi or something like that. The minute I stab the throttle, without increasing engine speed much, the boost gauge will jump to 13psi+ almost instantly. This is because the wastegate closes...which is the point of the wastegate.
No, not even close. The waste gate stays closed until boost build to the point where excess boost would push the engine harder than what the manufacturer intended. The fact is, the waste gate is never ever open when you're just tooling down the highway.
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Old 08-30-2018, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1 View Post
And? What's your point? The G70 4 cylinder also produces an extra 30hp and 50 ft-lb of torque using that same amount of fuel. I'd call a 10+% increase in hp and a 20+% increase in torque using the same amount of fuel a win.

No, I'm not implying anything. That's a scientific fact. If you stay off the boost, there's less air going into the intake manifold and therefore less fuel injected to combust with that air. That's the whole point of smaller displacement forced induction motors. I've gotten 35mpg with my Golf R by driving off the boost for 300 miles and routinely get 32mpg for shorter highway jaunts. The EPA rating is 22/29. My explanation is that, when off boost, it's no different than any other base model Golf model. I'd love to hear yours.
The point is very easy to get, self-explanatory and why you didn't get it the first time is beyond me.

That "extra 30hp and 50 ft-lb of torque " means nothing. The 330i was already a 5.7s 0-60mph car and you can bet your *ss that the 330i's 5-60mph will [has been] be better than the G70.

've gotten 35mpg with my Golf R by driving off the boost for 300 miles and routinely get 32mpg for shorter highway jaunts.
LOL. I do that routinely on highway, not pushing it with my larger, heavier AWD TLX. This is what happens with cylinder disactivation. I have seen 36mpg on a full tank of regular. BTW, TLX AWD combined of that sweet 3.5L is the same level of those horrible 2.0T found in the G70/Singer and none are quicker .What's your point?
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=39913&id=39911&id=39718&id=3 8759

Last edited by Saintor; 08-30-2018 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 08-31-2018, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by horseshoez View Post
No, not even close. The waste gate stays closed until boost build to the point where excess boost would push the engine harder than what the manufacturer intended. The fact is, the waste gate is never ever open when you're just tooling down the highway.
Yes, I stand corrected, you are right and I take back my previous comments. It seems that it's a function of engine load more so than exhaust speed. At high gear (cruising), it would take a lot more throttle input (and opening) to accelerate than it would to maintain speed (closed) so while the turbo is spinning, there's not enough air mass entering the system to create a substantial amount of boost anyway.

Thanks for making me read into this more.

Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
The point is very easy to get, self-explanatory and why you didn't get it the first time is beyond me.

That "extra 30hp and 50 ft-lb of torque " means nothing. The 330i was already a 5.7s 0-60mph car and you can bet your *ss that the 330i's 5-60mph will [has been] be better than the G70.

LOL. I do that routinely on highway, not pushing it with my larger, heavier AWD TLX. This is what happens with cylinder disactivation. I have seen 36mpg on a full tank of regular. BTW, TLX AWD combined of that sweet 3.5L is the same level of those horrible 2.0T found in the G70/Singer and none are quicker .What's your point?
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find...39718&id=38759
Sorry brosef, it means a lot. It means a 0-60 time of 5.7 vs 6.0 for the 330 which is the bigger engine of the time, should compare to the 325 instead. Also, the Genny is 400lbs heavier. No one reports on 5-60 times because no one cares.

Are you seriously meaning to tell me that a TLX AWD V6 is faster than a G70, Stinger, or Golf R? I raped a TLX off the line without lube the other day, first hand experience. The look on his face was priceless when he got beat by an economy car. I had a real good laugh to myself.

And you have never gotten that kind of economy on regular fuel. It's total BS until you show your data as I'm happy to show mine, and did in my thread. I might believe it if you were using premium but not on regular. Data or STFU. Also, are you too poor to put the right gas in your car?
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Old 08-31-2018, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by horseshoez View Post
Trust me, I understand power sells cars, but seriously, at some point enough is going to have to be enough. For my part, a G70 2.0T with a sweet shifting 6-Speed manual will be more than adequate. I just get a chuckle out of folks who stress over the lack of a couple of tenths of a second for any car which can return sub-5-Second 0-60 times; way too many other important things to stress about in life.
I don't know man I still like power in my 4-door civic and it's not a good feeling to get pulled 3 car lengths against a stock AMG GT S in my CTR with a Stage 1 Tune....lol.

Just kidding haha but no I get where you are coming from. For most people 2.0T is good enough. For me though, I always like the extra power for acceleration. I thought 350whp in a 3000lb is quite good...until I drove my friend's 500hp AMG GT S..lol. It's addictive man...always want more....and my S2000 feels like a Corolla now power wise.
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Old 08-31-2018, 02:02 AM
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dat Vancouver money

I've driven a 450awhp Evo X, yeah the power is insane. The torque pushes you back into the seat that hard.

That said, meh. It's funner to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. If you drag race a lot, that's a different story.
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Old 08-31-2018, 02:22 AM
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lol it's hard to enjoy life here in Vancouver...everything goes to paying mortgages...........and taxes....

Ya, i think that's the nice thing about the s2000. You can push it hard on the street but not be way over the speed limit.
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Old 08-31-2018, 07:38 AM
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Lord have mercy, you are balling!

@ disactivate.
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Old 08-31-2018, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by iforyou View Post
lol it's hard to enjoy life here in Vancouver...everything goes to paying mortgages...........and taxes....

Ya, i think that's the nice thing about the s2000. You can push it hard on the street but not be way over the speed limit.

I just realized you got a RDX Elite.... shit, how many 8 or 9s have you gotten so far?
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Old 09-05-2018, 02:52 PM
  #177  
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Getting closer to finally seeing the G70 (and the '19MY G80 and G90) hit the lots.

Latest word is maybe sometime in Oct.

But would be limited to certain states and certain dealerships within those states.
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Old 09-05-2018, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1 View Post

Sorry brosef, it means a lot. It means a 0-60 time of 5.7 vs 6.0 for the 330 which is the bigger engine of the time, should compare to the 325 instead. Also, the Genny is 400lbs heavier. No one reports on 5-60 times because no one cares.

Are you seriously meaning to tell me that a TLX AWD V6 is faster than a G70, Stinger, or Golf R? I raped a TLX off the line without lube the other day, first hand experience. The look on his face was priceless when he got beat by an economy car. I had a real good laugh to myself.

And you have never gotten that kind of economy on regular fuel. It's total BS until you show your data as I'm happy to show mine, and did in my thread. I might believe it if you were using premium but not on regular. Data or STFU. Also, are you too poor to put the right gas in your car?
Now you are trying to match trims rather than specs & engine technology. *Wrong.*

Both the G70 2.0Toy and the BMW 330i 2006 have 250HP or so. Get that.

If one's cares about daily driving acceleration and not about 5-60mph, it is just that; ignorant.

And you won't argue for long with simple facts. Or will you?
https://acurazine.com/forums/fifth-g.../#post16292390

Dsiclaimer; it is not true for all cars. But in this case I will gladly pocket that $400 yearly.
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Old 09-06-2018, 09:43 AM
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What is ignorant?
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Old 09-06-2018, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Now you are trying to match trims rather than specs & engine technology. *Wrong.*

Both the G70 2.0Toy and the BMW 330i 2006 have 250HP or so. Get that.

If one's cares about daily driving acceleration and not about 5-60mph, it is just that; ignorant.

And you won't argue for long with simple facts. Or will you?
https://acurazine.com/forums/fifth-g.../#post16292390

Dsiclaimer; it is not true for all cars. But in this case I will gladly pocket that $400 yearly.
If you're trying to compare a modern 2L 4cyl turbo to a 20 year old inline 6 cylinder NA with vastly different outputs, how is that even close to comparing specs and engine technology?

The G70 4cyl has 252hp and 260 lbft of torque. The 330i has (or had at least) 228hp and 221lbft of torque, I know this because I owned one. Those numbers aren't the same. Get that.

If one cares about daily driving, they care about 0-30, 30-50, and 50-70 times. 5-60 times are useless unless you're rolling through stops signs on the freeway and gunning it back up to speed for your daily commute. It's just that, ignorant.

So, you quote one study done on two cars that are "premium recommended" and claim it to be fact? Did they test in high heat? High stress? High vehicle weight? What about "premium required" cars? It's widely known that putting premium into a car that doesn't need it is a waste of money. It's also widely known that putting regular into a car that requires premium is a waste of money. Also:
https://www.roadandtrack.com/about/a31295/high-octane/
https://jalopnik.com/why-putting-reg...m-w-1796463139

There's a reason certain cars require premium and you're an idiot if you don't get it.

Still waiting to see the data on your 36mpg claimed economy on regular gas. Guessing you have none and just like to make bold, but false, claims. Also, your article mentioned that the $400 savings is if you net 15mpg. So you get 36mpg or 15mpg, which is it?
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Old 09-06-2018, 11:06 AM
  #181  
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Originally Posted by rockstar143 View Post
What is ignorant?
His post. :lmao:
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Old 09-06-2018, 11:15 AM
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LOL...
I mean, is he saying it's ignorant to care about real world acceleration over a 5-60 stat?
I have a feeling they are directly correlated though.

Again, why is discussing 2006 BMW technology relevant to this thread?
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Old 09-06-2018, 11:26 AM
  #183  
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Originally Posted by rockstar143 View Post
LOL...
I mean, is he saying it's ignorant to care about real world acceleration over a 5-60 stat?
I have a feeling they are directly correlated though.

Again, why is discussing 2006 BMW technology relevant to this thread?
He is trying to prove that his v6 TLX is superior to any other competitors in this segment.
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Old 09-06-2018, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by MSZ View Post
He is trying to prove that his v6 TLX is superior to any other competitors in this segment.
But it's not...even with that stat.

I'd gladly race his TLX with my Golf from 5-60. Would love to see which wins lol.
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Old 09-06-2018, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by MSZ View Post
He is trying to prove that his v6 TLX is superior to any other competitors in this segment.
After that he's going to prove Australia isn't real and any video footage from there is a movie set with actors paid by NASA
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Old 09-06-2018, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1 View Post
But it's not...even with that stat.

I'd gladly race his TLX with my Golf from 5-60. Would love to see which wins lol.
Someone else would have to drive his car to make the race fair. Or at least someone could remind Saintor that "R" stands for "reverse" and not "ready to race"

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Old 09-06-2018, 11:37 AM
  #187  
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Limp mode is ready to race.
Girls will e-race you from their phones in limp mode.
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Old 09-06-2018, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1 View Post
If you're trying to compare a modern 2L 4cyl turbo to a 20 year old inline 6 cylinder NA with vastly different outputs, how is that even close to comparing specs and engine technology?

The G70 4cyl has 252hp and 260 lbft of torque. The 330i has (or had at least) 228hp and 221lbft of torque, I know this because I owned one. Those numbers aren't the same. Get that.

If one cares about daily driving, they care about 0-30, 30-50, and 50-70 times. 5-60 times are useless unless you're rolling through stops signs on the freeway and gunning it back up to speed for your daily commute. It's just that, ignorant.

So, you quote one study done on two cars that are "premium recommended" and claim it to be fact? Did they test in high heat? High stress? High vehicle weight? What about "premium required" cars? It's widely known that putting premium into a car that doesn't need it is a waste of money. It's also widely known that putting regular into a car that requires premium is a waste of money. Also:
https://www.roadandtrack.com/about/a31295/high-octane/
https://jalopnik.com/why-putting-reg...m-w-1796463139

There's a reason certain cars require premium and you're an idiot if you don't get it.

Still waiting to see the data on your 36mpg claimed economy on regular gas. Guessing you have none and just like to make bold, but false, claims. Also, your article mentioned that the $400 savings is if you net 15mpg. So you get 36mpg or 15mpg, which is it?

He was comparing and referencing his experience with turbo from 1980s to today's.... so... it makes sense.
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Old 09-06-2018, 01:06 PM
  #189  
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imagine if the honda S2000 had come with the 2.0t they are putting in the new Accords!
I have seen that hondata claims 377 ft/lb with no supporting breathing mods, just a "stage 1" tune!
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Old 09-06-2018, 01:22 PM
  #190  
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^ with S2K's already weak rear end, it will snap it in half.
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Old 09-06-2018, 01:44 PM
  #191  
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Put in a ford 8.8!
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Old 09-06-2018, 01:53 PM
  #192  
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Saintor is... special, to put it lightly.

Doesn’t use the right fuel.

Always drives in sport+ mode because he admits his transmission is shit.

Then says he gets wicked fuel economy using the wrong fuel and in sport+ mode. Riiiiiight

His car is slow as balls in regular mode. His car isn’t fuel efficient in sport+ mode. So which is it? You can’t use two different scenarios and say it’s the same single scenario. It doesn’t work that way.

I mean, I too would feel special if I spent 55k CDN (plus tax) on a proverbial turd that excels at nothing at all



I too think 5-60 is a stupid measure. This came up in another thread and I remember Iforyou stating they have equipment to make sure the car is moving at 5mph to do the test. Wicked awesome. You can’t even get precise results without extra measuring equipment in the car

So much wow. Much awesome.
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Old 09-06-2018, 01:58 PM
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Not only that, but he always ignores that an NA engine doesn’t make peak torque until past 5000rpm or so.

Modern turbo engines are at their peak from 1500-4800rpm, and a flat torque line at that. Always in the power zone when driving around.

Im sure Saintor is driving his turd of an automatic at 5000rpm all the time to get that peak torque

fuel efficiency at its finest

next he will argue engine sound... in a car Acura needs to pump fake noise into the interior to make it sporty
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Old 09-06-2018, 01:59 PM
  #194  
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fake it till you make it!
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Old 09-06-2018, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by TacoBello View Post
Saintor is... special, to put it lightly.

Doesn’t use the right fuel.

Always drives in sport+ mode because he admits his transmission is shit.

Then says he gets wicked fuel economy using the wrong fuel and in sport+ mode. Riiiiiight

His car is slow as balls in regular mode. His car isn’t fuel efficient in sport+ mode. So which is it? You can’t use two different scenarios and say it’s the same single scenario. It doesn’t work that way.

I mean, I too would feel special if I spent 55k CDN (plus tax) on a proverbial turd that excels at nothing at all



I too think 5-60 is a stupid measure. This came up in another thread and I remember Iforyou stating they have equipment to make sure the car is moving at 5mph to do the test. Wicked awesome. You can’t even get precise results without extra measuring equipment in the car

So much wow. Much awesome.
His car is slow as balls in all modes and all speeds.

I'd feel pretty terrible trying THIS HARD to justify to people why I intentionally bought a shitty car.

Last edited by SamDoe1; 09-06-2018 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 09-06-2018, 02:32 PM
  #196  
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Originally Posted by SamDoe1 View Post
His car is slow as balls in all modes and all speeds.

I'd feel pretty terrible trying THIS HARD to justify to people why I intentionally bought a shitty car.
It's not that the TLX is that bad of a car, it's that Saintor doesn't recognize its flaws.
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Old 09-06-2018, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by TacoBello View Post
...Then says he gets wicked fuel economy using the wrong fuel and in sport+ mode. Riiiiiight

His car is slow as balls in regular mode. His car isn’t fuel efficient in sport+ mode. So which is it? You can’t use two different scenarios and say it’s the same single scenario. It doesn’t work that way.

From the "Having cake and eating it too" deparment:
  • If I lived in Canada I could simultaneously report better than expected and worse than expected fuel economy for the exact same duration. It is a simple trick Canadians get to play; when they want to report poor fuel economy, they use the liters per 100km measurement, when they want to report great fuel economy they use the (Imperial) MPG measurement. Maybe our "buddy" Saintor is playing that game. :p.
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Old 09-06-2018, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by horseshoez View Post
From the "Having cake and eating it too" deparment:
  • If I lived in Canada I could simultaneously report better than expected and worse than expected fuel economy for the exact same duration. It is a simple trick Canadians get to play; when they want to report poor fuel economy, they use the liters per 100km measurement, when they want to report great fuel economy they use the (Imperial) MPG measurement. Maybe our "buddy" Saintor is playing that game. :p.
I'm not sure he can figure all that out.
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Old 09-06-2018, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by kurtatx View Post
I'm not sure he can figure all that out.
Possibly; it was kind of a lame attempt at humor just the same.
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Old 09-06-2018, 02:49 PM
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Very lame but I’ll let it slide

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