corloc

In the October issue of Automobile, the TSX is rated #1 over 11 other $30,000 Sport Sedans.

provench

Nice ... what were the other cars? Just curious ...

corloc

Saab 9-3 Linear, Audi 1.8T Quattro, Pontiac Grand Prix GTP, Nissan Maxima SE, Mercedes Benz C230K Sport, BMW 325i, Lexus IS300, Infiniti G35, Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution, Subaru Imprexa WRX, Mazda 6S.

provench

swami

Sorry Finalheaven.

corloc

Just read a little further in the new Automobile. Stellar article on the new TL. "The mantra of practical value gives way to a new song of speed." Acura rocks!!!

me2

Can we get a scan??

ProZach

Hey, could I get an S to the can?

Type S Personality

If the TSX is blowing these cars into the weeds. I'd love to see what the TL would do to them! TSX is a wicked vehicle!

ghost

while i really like tsx, i don't think it can out-compete G35, imprexa WRX nor Mazda6 .....g35 is in the same class as TL(so u r saying tsx is better than tl?? ), Imprexa WRX is a rally car, the only car that can be compared it to IMO is Lancer Evolution; Mazda 6, while doesn't have great interiors, has a hell lot better handling and performance than tsx..so, i'm not sure if there is a mistake hree.....are u sure u r not saying the 2004 tl?? ( even if it's tl, its still not possible 'cause tl info. is not out until sep1st )

ssm_tsx

The TSX took first because overall it's the best car for the price. That doesn't mean that in some categories it is actually out-classed.

do I smell ANOTHER troll?

corloc

Summary of TSX comparison:

"BOTTOM LINE: The best synthesis of luxury, sport, and value out there right now."

Final Standings
"Comparing the Incomparable"

1. Acura TSX
2. BMW 325i
3. Infiniti G35
4. Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution
5. Mazda 6s
6. Subaru Impreza WRX
7. Lexus IS300
8. Audi A4 1.8T Quattro
9. Saab 9-3 Linear
10. Mercedes-Benz C230K Sport
11. Pontiac Grand Prix GTP Comp G
12. Nissan Maxima SE

corloc

Excerpts from TL review in Automobile:

- This is not a TL makeover; it's an Acura makeover.
- Just look at it. This is an Acura with style.
- THE TL still has a light, deft feel, but there's been a dramatic improvement in suspension steadiness and body composure.
- The new TL also makes drivers feel great as they go about their work.
- With the TL, Acura is among the first few car manufacturers to commit themselves to leading-edge consumer electronics.
- The TL's base price has climbed some $3,000 to $33,000 which surely will have consequences in a marketplace where few carmakers dare attempt a ten percent price increase. But it shouldn't matter for enthusiasts, because the TL is at last a car for drivers, not just buyers.

Jason

This is unbelieveable news on that comparo test. Those are some serious competitors listed. To be honest, I'm surprised they would have the TSX beat all the others out. I agree with it though.

Jaeger

Wow - I can't wait to read this article. Congrats to the TSX. I know there will be a litany of critics complaining about how the editors were biased / stupid / whatever, but this is a heck of an accomplishment for Acura. How long before this win finds its way into the TSX advertising (what little there is)?

Jaeger

PS - Maxima SE dead last? THAT surprises me.

Charmed

Holy Moly. That's going to take forever to pay off!

Jason

The TSX gets paid off much faster.

fdl

One word comes to mind.... Wow.

vitocorleone

Let me save some people some work of typing :-) (imagine gilbo typing this)

This article is very biased. There is simply no way that a 4-banger Honda Accord could ever win over the G35, let alone the almighty BMW. All they did was look at sticker price and feature lists. Very biased! Honda Accord! FWD cannot compare to RWD in terms of driving dynamics, especially with the dull, lifeless steering the TSX has compared to the BMW. Very biased. Honda Accord. The BMW is just much more vault-like in it's feeling compared to the cheap wanna-be TSX so I just don't see how the TSX can beat out all of the other cars, especially the BMW. Very biased. Honda Accord. Driving the cars at the limits, like everyone does every day I'm sure, there's just no way the TSX comes out on top. Very biased. Honda Accord. And it doesn't even have AWD!! Which is good since it's only a 4-banger Honda Accord with no power down low, regardless of what the dynos show, my a@@ is more accurate. The TSX is just so bland! Probably because the editors are biased is why it won. Besides, it's just a Honda Accord.






(PS - These comments don't reflect what I think, so don't go gettin' yer panties in a bunch :-))

ProZach

heyheyheyhey

lshenretty

This is amazing. I'm going to have to get a copy.

I haven't paid much attention to Automobile since it was about a year old. David E. Davis, Jr, left C&D to start it, and took some good people with him. He had a strong philosophy that lead the magazine in a direction I just lost interest in. As I recall (my 59 yr old memory is unreliable, remember), they didn't really seem to test or compare, didn't care much about the numbers, so I quit reading it on a regular basis.

But I'll have to give it another look. I see Jean Jennings is Editor-in-Chief now. I always liked her stuff. And there are some really good writers on the masthead: Robert Cumberford, Don Sherman (if it's the same Don Sherman who was with C&D in the 70s. He was probably a better engineer than writer, but he really knew cars), Phil Llewellin, P.J. O'Rourke (yep, the same conservative satirist you see on TV once in a while), Timothy Ferris (wonder if it's the same guy who wrote "Coming of Age in the Milky Way". - Edit. Just googled it. It's the same guy. He wrote a great piece in C&D about crashing a race car - maybe Formula 1 - and about how it scared him to death and almost killed him to death), Bruce McCall.

But the results of this test are stunning. I decided I liked the TSX better than the other cars, but I sure didn't think most car people would agree, especially against the 325i. And I'm not sure anybody on the board but larch believed the TSX would/should beat all those cars. It was enough that the TSX was a really good car at a really good price.

For those who have read the article, does the magazine seem to put a lot of weight on value? That is, on price as a significant issue in the comparison?

Great news for this board, whatever the basis for their choice.

Skyhawk

I have not seen the article yet, but I think it should be taken seriously -- as high praise. It has always been my perspective that Automobile Magazine could not see the light of day with their head so far up BMW's butt; they certainly had a less-than-flattering "first look" at the TSX last fall, too.

I think that if they liked it, it must be seriously good. Of course, I have driven it, and I know it is seriously good.

Now where the hell are the XMRadio and the heated mirrors?!

Bear Trap

I feel so vindicated after being called a heretic and infidel by the BMW herd when I started & defended the thread "The 3-Series Is No TSX." This article finally confirms what so many of us knew all along. All I can say is I told you so.

lshenretty

Oh, yeah. Forgot about Bear Trap.

TinkySD

yeah i'm definitely finding this mag today. Does anyone have a copy of the first drive last year? I would looooove to see the comparison between the two.

Skyhawk

Tinky,
If you are referring to my comment about the "first look", I am speaking of just a blurb from an Auto Show where the TSX was labeled "conservative, bland, blah, blah, blah". I may be able to dig it up for the exact words. Anyway, I was not referring to a full test-drive report.

Saintor_RENAMED

I.... agree.

Very surprising because Automobile is very Euro biased and they generally don't like Honda.

corloc

Here is the TSX summary from the comparison:

The Acura TSX is a Euro-spec Honda Accord beneath its skin. The engine has just four cylinders instead of six, and it's driving the front wheels. Value and utility are important messages here, with all the goodies included except for the navigation system. And yet everyone stepped out of the car with a look of delight on his face.

You don't have to look much further than the traditional Honda virtues to figure out why. This is the lightest car in our group. The four cylinder engine reflects the Honda spirit of doing more with less, and it works far better than Honda's V-6 efforts. The six-speed manual transmission shifts very cleanly. Finally, Honda has paid careful attention to the human factors of the driving position.

On the road, there's never any doubt that this is a front-wheel-drive car with 59.8 percent of its weight on the front tires. Those front tires will tug a bit as the limited-slip differential engages across a bump, and the rear suspension kicks as the car flies across a crest. Yet once you flick off the vehicle stability control, the TSX displays the perfectly controllable lift-throttle oversteer that makes driving at the limit so entertaining. And it all works with outstanding poise on the road.

Sherman sums up: "The Acura TSX shows evidence of lots of polishing on the test track and on the open road. The Honda engineers spent some time thinking about the way this car works."

Add up value, a sensible passenger package, and rewarding dynamics, and you've got a great car in any price category.

fdl

Umm..I dunno about this.


Limitd-slip?? Since when??


Some of you may think these "small" errors are just that.,.small. But for me they really take some of the edge off of the review

And as for noone thinking the TSX would beat out all these cars....well I think every one of us here who actually bought a TSX feels the TSX is the best of the bunch when considering all things, including features, performance, reliability, and value. I am sure most, like me, considered the cars in that list and decided the TSX was the best all-round car.

lshenretty

Agreed. But the car magazines usually don't think much about price as long as it's within the general range they're testing. And they seldom say much of anything about reliability.

Actually, now that I think about it, R&T does include price as one of its last criteria, and then includes that in its final score. Dunno what Automobile does.

ALFA

Well, I don't understand why everyone acts so surprise. Most of the people on this forum arrived to the same conclusion. I still haven't made up my mind (TL, G35, TSX, Vector), but whatever my decision will be, I could not tell anyone here that my car is better than a TSX. We have great choices in this segment, and the final decision may be more related to an emotional issue than pure analitycal data, as it should be anyway. A logical choice would a an Accord, but that would not be any fun, would it?

lshenretty

Good point, ALFA. And all the reliability discussions notwithstanding, I think all of these cars would be likely to make their owners happy. But it sure is nice for TSX owners and wanna-be owners to have it come in first against such impressive competition.

Just noticed something interesting. Automobile's website lists what they call their "Partners". GM, Saab, Lexus, and Mitsubishi are partners. Honda is not. BMW is not. Nissan is not. Looks like they didn't let membership in that small club influence their results Except maybe for the Evo at #4, although I must admit I haven't even read a review of that car, much less driven it. It may be terrific.

fdl

I assumed Automobile took price into consideration because they threw around the word "value". But ya alot of mags may mention price here and there but never really consider it in there overall ranking and score. It really depends on what they are ranking. I know car and driver usually consentrates 90% on performance. But realistically when we choose our car there are so many other variables that make up our mind ... value being one, reliability being another. 2 things that some times get overlooked in some mag reviews.

fdl

So any chance of getting that article scanned? I wanna make the final ranking list my wallpaper

lshenretty

Exactly. And they hardly mention reliability. Given all our talk here about the importance of value and reliability, that makes Automobile's choice all the more interesting, and maybe all the more significant.

Type S Personality

All Automobile magazine is saying is that the TSX is a great value for what you get with it. I always like what Tony Swan of Car and Driver said: You don't always have to hit runs to win the game.

Iceman

LOL! Maxima couldn't even beat the Grand Prix!

zircon

I find the cars they paired up here quite odd. I can understand the TSX, Audi, MB, BWM and perhaps Passat, but why put the Maxima, Grand PRix and Infiniti in here (they seem a size class up, if not style), and then the Suby and Mitsu (which are in sport classes by themselves for recent university grads who seek to kill themselves). Very odd. Nevertheless, I would like to see the article.

larchmont

And Ish doesn't even know how totally nuts I am -- he wasn't around yet when I did that "Best Car Up to $80K" thread!

BTW, maybe now somebody besides me will consider believing that!!!


Actually not even I thought TSX would win a test like this. I give Acura/TSX extra points for several reasons that most people don't count, and which (I think) didn't count in this test:

(1) Reliability (as Ish mentioned in another post)
(2) FWD (which to me is a huge PLUS)
(3) Terrific past experience with Acura service
(4) Inordinate love of Honda/Acura

I felt the TSX was clearly the #1 car if you have those biases.
But I never imagined anyone would find it #1 EVEN WITHOUT those biases.

fdl

Larch, that post is still the most ridiculous post ever!