Maximized

Nothing at all, because he has no clue what he is talking about. He can't even discern the difference in the interiors of GM's full size SUV. It's very easily to tell the design differences. I find that many people make blanket statements and have a prejudice towards American cars. I will be laughing when in another 5 years, these type of people will have changed their mind and will be buying an American automobile.

gavriil

I am under the impression that a comparably equipped G6 is less expensive than a Camry or Accord. Am I wrong?

gavriil

Do does me and apparently Lutz.

What Carlos Ghosn has said is that a few years from now, GM and Ford cars will be the most qualitative and durable on the planet and Japanese cars will be the most exciting (as far as exterior design).

RWalker2

The question is, why would I buy a Malibu or G6 instead of an Accord/Camry even if they are $5000 less Honestly, GM needs to work on the desirability of their products (besides the fact that quality and reliability over the long term (greater than a year :P) are subpar...).

Fibonacci

Yes you did.

Despite being number one in total sales, GM has been steadily losing market share for quite a while. This is a pretty elementary business concept, and one that doesn't bode well for GM.


http://www.jsonline.com/wheels/peak/...re02030101.asp

kansaiwalker1

Really? This sounds just like Little Orphan Annie forever singing "Tomorrow, Tomorrow...."

F23A4

Exactly. I'd like to see Lutz answer that question.

kansaiwalker1

Yes. Especially if you factor in the time lost from all the future recalls and repairs needed to keep a substandard product like the G6 running.

kansaiwalker1

Uh-huh. And no doubt we will all be driving flying cars like in the Jetsons and Cylons will doing all of our manual labor....

Fibonacci

I actually like the exterior styling of the G6, I think it's probably one of the nicest designs they've done recently.

However after sitting in one, and going for a test drive - you're quickly reminded of how far GM has to improve, to win back the buyers who've abandoned them in the past.

cob3683

I agree except for two things

1) Ford is getting better but still behind GM
2) Japanese cars HAVE to become more exciting. Lexus is too bland. Acura has some great designs and interior quality (TL, TSX) but needs to be sportier to compete with the class leaders. Infiniti/Nissan need to overhaul the interiors. G35 interior quality is a joke compared to the 330i.

Having owned 6 cars between Japan, Germany, and U.S., heres how I look at it.

Durability - U.S. Owned 2 tahoes and a Sonoma and never gave me a problem. CL-s had minor problems. 328is was terrible. I didn't have the C32 long enough to make any claims. Edge to U.S.

Fit and finish - Germany>Japan>U.S.

Pricing - Japan is tops because you get alot for the money. U.S. is good but not up to Japans level. Germany is last.

Overall - I might give BMW another try when the new M3 comes out but if it doesnt, MB will be the way I go for all other vehicles other than SUV's. The best customer service anywhere in my book, performance, and quality. The downside is that they are expensive.

gavriil

As I understand it, Lexus is number one when it comes to service.

gavriil

Dude, we all know GM has been losing share for the past...a billion years. What you said is that GM cars are not bought "in droves". And what I answered you was that yes they are. Just Chevrolet sells more cars around the world than anyone else. What does share have to do with volume? "Buying them in droves" is related to volume, not share.

gavriil

That's not a fair simily. And I know you know it.

During the past 20 years GM/Ford did not focus on cars, but on trucks (and that includes SUVs). Only in the past 3 years that has changed to equally emphasizing both. For such a huge strategy change to work in this industry, it needs at least a couple of generations to show results (negative or positive). So five to seven years from now, we'll know if the strategy shift shown by GM and Ford starting around 2001 will bring results.

I say it will.

gavriil

2005 Toyota Camry
SE V6 4dr Sedan (3.3L 6cyl 5A)
MSRP = $23,775

2005 Pontiac G6
GT 4dr Sedan (3.5L 6cyl 4A)
MSRP = $23,300

And that's the top of the line G6 like I picked the top of the line Camry. But, you can still have a 3.5L base G6 for 21K which will make the Camry look like a luxury vehicle after options.

Fibonacci

Does the G6 have side airbags/side curtains/stability control???

Python2121

i cannot believe that people actually like the caddy's interior. All the wood trim is fake like woah, the dashboard is so plasticy, the cd changer sucks (sterio is good though, but thats not interior), i cant stand the escalade interior. How can it possibly compare the range rover (more $$ but even so!?).

Python2121

look at the way the cd changer in teh escalade doesn't look like it fits at all, and right above it is that great looking compartment

look at the entire dash layout, and how the only difference is the trim has been changed to wood, it looks like all the parts are just "upscale part bin" part bin parts

cob3683

Dude, the Range Rover is $20,000 MORE. Why don't we compare a 4Runner to a Cayenne Turbo?

gavriil

You went from the "selling in droves" argument to the pricing argument realy quick

gavriil

OK let's continue the comparo then:

2005 Toyota Camry
SE V6 4dr Sedan (3.3L 6cyl 5A)
MSRP = $23,775

2005 Pontiac G6
GT 4dr Sedan (3.5L 6cyl 4A)
MSRP = $23,300

Below, first comes Camry, second comes G6

Rust 5 yr. / Unlimited mi. 6 yr. / 100000 mi.

One-Touch Power Windows 1 - - - - 2

Adjustable Pedals Optional Standard

Steering Adjustment tilt-adjustable - - tilt and telescopic

Seatback Storage Not Available Standard

Cargo Nets Optional Standard

Cargo Area Tie Downs Not Available Standard

Vanity Mirrors dual vanity mirrors dual illuminated vanity mirrors

Brakes - Rear disc ventilated disc

Traction Control Optional Standard

De-powered Air Bags Standard Standard

Head Air Bag front and rear - Optional front and rear - Optional

Side Air Bag dual front - Optional dual front - Optional

Headlight Dusk Sensor Not Available Standard

Premium Brand Speakers Not Available Monsoon

Total Number of Speakers 6 - - 8

Satellite Communications System Not Available OnStar - Optional

City and Highway gas consumption is identical for both cars

F23A4

.....I'll take the built like a tank, made to last 2 decades Camry thank you.

RWalker2

That comparison would be closer than the current one

The escalade interior is really hideous...

F23A4

If I'm not mistaken, I think it has the same dashboard as a 1995 Chevy Suburban.

cob3683

F23A4

cob3683

I guess I see some similiarities but IMO it has improved by miles since then

Junkster

I heard Caddie just showed 700 celebrities the next (2007) 'Lade for marketing reaction...

Junkster, who would roll a Navigator before a 'Lade

F23A4

Really? Any idea what the general reactions were?

Junkster

No clue. It was reported either in Autoweek or Automotive News website.

Good marketing idea. Celebs are one of the best forms of starting/rating/gauging a trendy product.

Junkster, who hopes Caddie makes it a bit more distiguishable from it's GM brothers

SiGGy

someone compare the lincoln to the caddy... lol, landrover to GM. I expect the rover to look better. The ford to Gm comparison should be good though...

Lets see a side by side interior of navigator to escalade. Although I do find all the components to be "parts bin" in the pic of the escalade. Minus the gauge cluster, which really look good actually. But the radio/climate control/etc.. all looks parts bin.

On a side note, the 95 dash does look like the new one. Same layout, some wood trim and they relocated the radio for the navi screen. Otherwise it's just updated. Definetly not re-designed...

F23A4

Thank you.

DownUnder

Junkster

now, can we get the Escalade pic next to a Yukon/suburban interior, and the Navigator pic next to the Expedition?

I HATE, LOATH how GM uses the same plastics for everything in their lineup, all the way up to a caddilac.

Junkster, who thinks Ford at least tries to distinguish their product qualities

MADCAT

Trecel will beat that about 7 years...there's one old very one my my block...that thing won't break.

DownUnder

Here ya go:

GMC Yukon:


GMC Yukon Denali:



Cadillac Escalade:








Ford Expedition:



Lincoln Navigator:

Junkster

pics not worky...

Junkster, who will try refresh

cob3683

Not working here either

DownUnder

Damn...Glowfoto host = teh suck,

I'll try a different host, hold on...

DownUnder

Hopefully it'll work this time.



GMC Yukon:


GMC Yukon Denali:


Cadillac Escalade:








Ford Expedition:



Lincoln Navigator: