BMW: 3-Series News
#1441
Engineer
look at those front fenders... now that is aggressive...
#1443
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damn that is looking nice..
#1444
Senior Moderator
More pics:
#1445
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ok.. im not really digging the way the quad exhaust is set up..
taillights cant really make any comments until the black tape comes off
taillights cant really make any comments until the black tape comes off
#1447
Originally Posted by Mizouse
ok.. im not really digging the way the quad exhaust is set up..
taillights cant really make any comments until the black tape comes off
taillights cant really make any comments until the black tape comes off
#1448
Senior Moderator
#1450
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by oonowindoo
...Unless TL is under around 2600 lbs, otherwise it wont be close....
...I had a CLS and i had almost every mods possible to improve handling... it s still not near as good as my G35C and not EVEN close to the S2k, FYI 3 series handles better than G35C due to the weight.
...I had a CLS and i had almost every mods possible to improve handling... it s still not near as good as my G35C and not EVEN close to the S2k, FYI 3 series handles better than G35C due to the weight.
And they both had "moderate understeer". The TL had faster times in the slalom and higher "g" loads. (marginally)
Your CL is not a new TL. There is a lot of difference. I think you are voicing your expectations of how you think the TL should handle based on what you have heard and experienced before on other FWD cars.
When pushed to the limits, my TL has moderate understeer. Granted, it feels different when you do that- much like a rear or mid-engine Porsche feels different from a front-engine RWD car. But different does not always mean bad.
#1451
Team Owner
well.. honestly... the new TL might handle better than the 2nd CLS.. but how much better? i dont expect the difference to be much....
if u think new TL is different/better than other nose heavy FWD cars... educate me please...
and u need to stop using magazine stats =) i dont believe anything magazine says nowadays.
if u think new TL is different/better than other nose heavy FWD cars... educate me please...
and u need to stop using magazine stats =) i dont believe anything magazine says nowadays.
#1452
Team Owner
Originally Posted by iNteGraz92
how about badge for buck?
Badge for buck = Jaguar
it doesnt have the ride of MBZ, it doesnt handle like bmw, it doesnt have the interior of lexus . what it does have is the hitler faced exterior.
Last edited by oonowindoo; 04-14-2006 at 06:24 PM.
#1453
I'm a llama :(
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo
well.. honestly... the new TL might handle better than the 2nd CLS.. but how much better? i dont expect the difference to be much....
if u think new TL is different/better than other nose heavy FWD cars... educate me please...
and u need to stop using magazine stats =) i dont believe anything magazine says nowadays.
if u think new TL is different/better than other nose heavy FWD cars... educate me please...
and u need to stop using magazine stats =) i dont believe anything magazine says nowadays.
#1455
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by oonowindoo
well.. honestly... the new TL might handle better than the 2nd CLS.. but how much better? i dont expect the difference to be much....
if u think new TL is different/better than other nose heavy FWD cars... educate me please...
and u need to stop using magazine stats =) i dont believe anything magazine says nowadays.
if u think new TL is different/better than other nose heavy FWD cars... educate me please...
and u need to stop using magazine stats =) i dont believe anything magazine says nowadays.
Of the three, the Wrangler is by far the most fun to drive- especially with the top down as it has been for the last month in Florida. It is fairly well balanced and handles well at moderate to low speeds. It has sufficient power for what I expect it to do and nice torque for a 2.5L 4 cyl.
The BMW has the best, most predictable driver feedback and feel. It is light and nimble. It is fun to drive and makes you want to speed up for the next corner since the last one was so easy. It is underpowered but satisfying if you keep it revved up. It is an automatic which I recently replaced with a rebuilt tranny for $3,000.
The TL is poetry in motion. It has abundant power, always on tap. It is larger and heavier than the other two but is very responsive to driver input. Hard acceleration while turning will cause the steering wheel to want to straighten out- which, I suspect, is the stability control computer stepping in. But, I can shut that off. I have never pushed the TL beyond its cornering limits because those limits are pretty extreme. I have felt it drift slightly and, again, the nanny net steps in to keep you out of trouble.
It corners very well. I can confirm that when you really push it to the limit, you get slight to moderate understeer. I don't have the A-Spec suspension. I understand that improves the handling even more. It doesn't "feel" nose heavy but, as a driver raised on RWD, it does not have the same feel. With high-performance RWD cars, you know inherently that you can hang the tail out with throttle application. Those of us from the snow country spent all winter doing that. Sometimes on purpose and sometimes not. But, it is a familiar feeling to us. We have grown to like and accept it.
So, anything that doesn't feel the same gives us pause. We know how to control and compensate for the RWD pushing/handling. We've grown accustomed to it.
But put us in a rear-engined "tail-heavy" car or a FWD "nose-heavy" car, and we are out of our element. It could be a Porsche, a Corvair, or an Altima SE-R.
Getting around to my point (finally): you and car magazine writers have your favorite "feel" which you sometimes call "handling". But, the only meaningful measure of handling is to compare car's ability to get from point A to point B on a curvy road, preferably with some ups and downs. The stop-watch doesn't lie.
When professional drivers run a TL on the same course as a BMW 530i and the TL does better on the test instruments, that tells a story. Now, admittedly, these drivers might say they liked the feel (feedback, sound, etc.) of the BMW sligihtly better than the TL. We can wonder how much of that preference is due to their experience and the kind of cars they learned on.
Two other points. If you watch SCCA and other racing events, you will see that FWD cars like TSX and even Mazdas hold their own against BMW 3 series on every track regularly- often winning these events.
And lastly, do you consider a common arrow to be unstable because the heavy part is in front and the feathers in back? Would you like to shoot one backwards and see what happens?
(Just kidding on the last one but you get my "point")
#1459
Burning Brakes
#1461
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Crazy Sellout
Xpditor, which 3series do you have? Do you track any of your cars?
And no. I don't track it. I do push it through the mountains of western North Carolina, however.
As for the bimmer coupe, is MB the only car company that knows how to make a 2-dr pillarless (B) hardtop coupe?
If they can make a CLK, why can't they make a pillarless 330?
#1464
Instructor
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Damnit. I like it too.
I don't know how long I can hold onto the TSX what with the 335 and the new G coupe concept vying for my not so hard earned bucks.
But the bimmer's interior is really sad compared to the coupe concept and the TSX.
I don't know how long I can hold onto the TSX what with the 335 and the new G coupe concept vying for my not so hard earned bucks.
But the bimmer's interior is really sad compared to the coupe concept and the TSX.
#1465
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Crazy Sellout
Did you really just edit my post and compare a 1995 318 to your 2004 TL? No wonder you think so highly of your TL
And the topic is handling. That is independent of engine size. In fact, lighter cars handle better than heavier ones, all other things being equal.
My point in the post was that I have personal experience with the handling of BMWs which are great. Further point: so is the Acura TL.
#1471
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Xpditor
Yes, I did. Outside of Ramblings, we're a little more particular about the expletives. But, you know that.
And the topic is handling. That is independent of engine size. In fact, lighter cars handle better than heavier ones, all other things being equal.
My point in the post was that I have personal experience with the handling of BMWs which are great. Further point: so is the Acura TL.
And the topic is handling. That is independent of engine size. In fact, lighter cars handle better than heavier ones, all other things being equal.
My point in the post was that I have personal experience with the handling of BMWs which are great. Further point: so is the Acura TL.
You are comparing a 11 year old bmw to a 2 year old Acura. Im sure BMW has come a long way from your "personal experience".
You been sackriding that R&T magazine article in about 4 posts of yours. Yes maybe the TL did outhandle a 5series in that magazine. But I will bet there are at least 6 other magazines that say otherwise.
I have had a 04 TL for a loaner, its does handle well... if you arent battling it against torque steer. But personally I like to drive the car and not have to fight with it when turning.
Now the TSX handles great, much nicer than the TL. Also how come you dont see many TL owners doing track events?
Pushing > Pulled
#1472
Burning Brakes
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Originally Posted by Crazy Sellout
Yes maybe the TL did outhandle a 5series in that magazine. But I will bet there are at least 6 other magazines that say otherwise.
#1476
Burn some dust here
Originally Posted by stangg172004
meh... id take a last gen 330ci over that any day...
Oh, and
#1477
teh Senior Instigator
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Originally Posted by Crazy Sellout
Did you really just edit my post and compare a 1995 318 to your 2004 TL? No wonder you think so highly of your TL
What did it say?
fuckin a
#1478
teh Senior Instigator
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Originally Posted by iNteGraz92
and i will bet the magazines that say otherwise will no doubt complain about it being fwd too . as to why there aren't many tl owners doing track events... they probably have better things to do than drive around cones.
that was a retarded post
#1479
teh Senior Instigator
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Originally Posted by Xpditor
If they can make a CLK, why can't they make a pillarless 330?
it cuts into the integrity of the car and isn't as rigid so it's not as flat, MB isn't big on handling so they'll do stuff like this while BMW is focused on handling and thus the pillar adds structural stability to the car.