BMW: 3-Series News
03-05-2006, 10:12 PM
#1321
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Originally Posted by ilitig8
Fact of the matter is your criteria determines if it is a 13s car or a 12s second car, period. The 12.7Xs car dynoed right along with the rest and trap speeds verified it so that argument is flat out wrong, it was NOT a factory anomoly and you will find far fewer factory anomoly cars in the M line than you will find for instance in SRT4s. The 12.7s car WAS indeed a no sunroof car but several fully loaded M3s have run 12s. And yes your 05 GT has 11s potential IF it indeed dynos the same and has the same slicks and the chassis is set up the same, again potential it is up to the conditions and you the driver to exploit it, and my guess is very few times will these stars aline. I also NEVER said all stock E46 M3s have 12s potential, the majority of them do not... you missed a VERY important qualification!!!
03-06-2006, 12:16 AM
#1322
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Originally Posted by ilitig8
Can't say I agree. The stock car is capable of high 12s with an excellent driver and a properly prepped track. Now this is near the capability of the car (and not a factory anomoly car), most decent drivers will get a low 13 out of the car. See I never said it was common, I said that the stock car is capable of 12s. The vast majority of runs will be in the 13s, so using that criteria it is a 13 second car, like a lot of C6 Z06 runs will be in the 12s. No street car is ever going to reach its potential a majority of the time in various conditions and with different drivers.
I will agree with you that most 1/4 runs in a three pedal E46 M3 will be in the 13s, but I am curious if you will agree with me that the stock E46 M3 is a potential 12s car given excellent conditions and a great driver.
My view of 1/4 mile numbers is much like numbers from the Nurburgring, the numbers are the fastest by excellent drivers and in perfect conditions. They are near the potential of the car and thus considered the bench mark, what the capabilities of the car are. Jeez put the average club racer in a flat 8m car on the Green Monster and weeks of lapping MIGHT get him near 8:30. To me the potential of a car is more important than the average weekend warrior times, if you prefer to talk about average times for a car I agree the E46 M3 is a 13s car.
I will agree with you that most 1/4 runs in a three pedal E46 M3 will be in the 13s, but I am curious if you will agree with me that the stock E46 M3 is a potential 12s car given excellent conditions and a great driver.
My view of 1/4 mile numbers is much like numbers from the Nurburgring, the numbers are the fastest by excellent drivers and in perfect conditions. They are near the potential of the car and thus considered the bench mark, what the capabilities of the car are. Jeez put the average club racer in a flat 8m car on the Green Monster and weeks of lapping MIGHT get him near 8:30. To me the potential of a car is more important than the average weekend warrior times, if you prefer to talk about average times for a car I agree the E46 M3 is a 13s car.
Nobody can duplicate 12.7 in a bone stock E46 M3 so that's is out of the question period.
Times taken from M3 board:
12.890 @ 106.70 MPH ? (BRN M3) E46 M3
Mods: Race fuel (VP103), Drag radials, two race seats
12.977 @ 109.77 MPH Miket (GiveMeAnM3) E46 M3
Mods: Bolt-ons
Raceweight: Weight reduced 3,365lbs (3515 lbs stock)
12.988 @ 109.36 MPH Scott (Divexxtreme) E46 M3
Mods: weight reduced to 3,280 lbs (3515 lbs stock)
13.058 @ 106.80 MPH George (GNK2727) E46 M3 SMG
Mods: Race fuel
Raceweight: Stock
13.064 @ 106.26 MPH (DLSJ5) E46 M3 SMG ZCP
Mods: Bolt-ons, gears, no back-seats, 100 octane: Rubber: Drag radials
Raceweight: ?
13.170 @ 107.29 MPH ? (RPM_M3) E46 M3 SMG
Mods: Drag Radials
Raceweight: ?
13.35 @ 105.5 MPH Scott (Divexxtreme) E46 M3 SMG ZCP
Mods: Bone stock
Raceweight: Stock
13.375 @ 102.85 MPH (ki_Daniel) E46 M3 6 speed
Mods: Bone stock
Raceweight: stock
Last edited by av6ent; 03-06-2006 at 12:19 AM.
03-06-2006, 12:45 AM
#1323
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Originally Posted by F23A4
I would also expect an N54 powered 3-series to pull mid-13s; 12s are improbable in stock form but very possible with BPU. But thanks for posting that dyno pic av6ent....very revealing info on the 325i.
It definitely reminds me that I shouldnt sleep on them. 
, hope it temporary . As far as 335i future times I guess we'll have to wait and see the actual power and vehicle weight.Now I really think of slowing down regarding EVO IX planned for fun this April since BMW coming with FI vehicle for a lot of potential. Heck, maybe I trade in my G35 too and keep just one car for both performance and status. But one thing is clear I won't get a 1st year of production and let them fix the bugs first.
Last edited by av6ent; 03-06-2006 at 12:48 AM.
03-06-2006, 01:01 AM
#1324
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Originally Posted by gavriil
Very impressive dyno above. I am guessing that the power at the crank is more closer to 235HP or even a little higher.
201whp/182wtq (STD) = 195whp/176wtq (SAE correction) or 3% difference.
195whp/176wtq (SAE) = 235hp/212tq (17% drivetrain loss)
If drivetrain loss is less then 17%, it's even better.
03-06-2006, 01:18 AM
#1325
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Originally Posted by av6ent
Pretty much:
201whp/182wtq (STD) = 195whp/176wtq (SAE correction) or 3% difference.
195whp/176wtq (SAE) = 235hp/212tq (17% drivetrain loss)
If drivetrain loss is less then 17%, it's even better.
201whp/182wtq (STD) = 195whp/176wtq (SAE correction) or 3% difference.
195whp/176wtq (SAE) = 235hp/212tq (17% drivetrain loss)
If drivetrain loss is less then 17%, it's even better.
03-06-2006, 02:10 AM
#1326
Burning Brakes
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Originally Posted by Maximized
I base what I see at the track. A caveat, my local track is the quickest track in the nation. The 12.7 you are referring to I bet is a guy named Lee Ruther. His car WASN'T stock. It had lightweight rims and pullies. Lee is also a well know drag racer(Pro). I read about him a long time agoand it's also been hinted that he used DR's. If you have any links to prove a factory stock M3 running 12s, I'd love to see them.
The M3 is a 12s car in a great drivers hands but as I have before I will agree again the M3 in most situations and most drivers is a 13s car, period, but at the edge of its performance envelope it can run well into the 12s stock. It is no different from aguing the M3 is a 8:15 car on the Nurburgring. It is only a 8:15 in perfect conditions in the hands of a ringmeister, outside perfect conditions and in the hands of an average club racer it is closer to a 9 minute car.
Finally, I reiterate I agree with you that the M3 can correctly be considered a 13s car. If you do not agree that in the proper conditions and in the proper hands the a three pedal stock E46 M3 is capable of consistent 12s then we will simply agree to disagree, nothing more needs to be said.
Oh and AV6 your stock weights are off you list 3515, BMW lists it as 3414 which turns out to be the weight of a fully loaded SMG car (they usually weigh about 3420 on scales) making the weight vary from 3315 for a stripper to 3440 for a loaded SMG car with 1/4 tank, which is the range I have seen on scale weighed cars. You also llisted both of Scott's cars which were both SMG cars the first one, silver non ZHP at one time was the fastest M3 down in the 12.2 range but with a AA blower. Scott moved on to P-cars.
03-06-2006, 07:06 AM
#1327
Team Owner
That 325 that ran the 14.7, could it be a freak since it's the same one that dynoed so high? Or is this typical for the car?
Which track is considered the fastest in the nation?
Which track is considered the fastest in the nation?
03-06-2006, 07:58 AM
#1328
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Doom878
That 325 that ran the 14.7, could it be a freak since it's the same one that dynoed so high? Or is this typical for the car?
Which track is considered the fastest in the nation?
Which track is considered the fastest in the nation?
03-06-2006, 12:09 PM
#1332
I'm the Firestarter
Nice and clean look, but kind of anonymous at the same time...
03-06-2006, 02:27 PM
#1335
Senior Moderator
.....I already miss the E46 coupe. Then again, I didnt like the E46 at first but it later grew on me.
03-06-2006, 03:08 PM
#1336
Safety Car
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Followup: 2007 3-Series coupe "spy shots"
Originally Posted by LeftLaneNews
The folks behind yesterday's "spy shots" of the 2007 BMW 3-Series Coupe have come clean and admitted that the images are indeed doctored, as predicted by Leftlane News.
While the images are obviously based on real photos, computer software was used to "fill in the blanks" — i.e. removing camo from the headlights, and completely guessing the design of the taillights. The creators of these images claimed they were entirely authentic photos, which clearly was not the case. We hope this is a lesson to the spy photographers and publishers out there to be honest about the spy photos and/or computer renderings they generate. Everyone loves spy shots (and artist renderings) but honesty is critical to maintaining credibility. So what's the real deal with the new 3-Series? The best suppoedly-undisguised images so far can be found here http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/02/...oupe-unmasked/ . Of course, we won't know for sure if these are real until the official announcement.
While the images are obviously based on real photos, computer software was used to "fill in the blanks" — i.e. removing camo from the headlights, and completely guessing the design of the taillights. The creators of these images claimed they were entirely authentic photos, which clearly was not the case. We hope this is a lesson to the spy photographers and publishers out there to be honest about the spy photos and/or computer renderings they generate. Everyone loves spy shots (and artist renderings) but honesty is critical to maintaining credibility. So what's the real deal with the new 3-Series? The best suppoedly-undisguised images so far can be found here http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/02/...oupe-unmasked/ . Of course, we won't know for sure if these are real until the official announcement.
Last edited by heyitsme; 03-06-2006 at 03:11 PM.
03-07-2006, 10:17 AM
#1338
'Big Daddy Diggler'
I can see it now. Blow off Valve, chip, downpipe, cat back, intake........And you will have an M3 killer. Not to mention when companies start making larger turbos for it.
03-07-2006, 10:51 AM
#1339
Yeah it's kinda funny when you de-Bangle it, it looks almost anonymous. like something that came out of Pontiac.
03-07-2006, 12:48 PM
#1341
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Crazy Sellout
$42k base isnt TOO bad. Figure 6k extra for the options i want... $48k...
Ok maybe ill wait and buy a used one.
Ok maybe ill wait and buy a used one.
The only reason I'm driving a CLS instead of a 330 was price... But by buying a previously owned one, it'll lessen the blow to the wallet...
03-07-2006, 07:14 PM
#1342
goldmemberererer
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Re: N54
Here's a video.
Here's a video.
03-16-2006, 09:37 AM
#1348
Burning Brakes
2007/2008 BMW M3 spied
Yesterday we received a new spy shot of what is purportedly a prototype of the 2007/2007 BMW M3 coupe. While we cannot definitively guarantee the authenticity of the photo, we believe it is real. The image is believed to be of the new M3, as evidenced by the distinctive quad-tailpipes — a feature only seen on BMW's "M" vehicles. Moreover, the car appears to have widened wheel arches. While it's difficult to determine from just one photo, this certainly appears to be the case. Lastly, there appears to be some type of camouflage on the front quarter-panel — the exact location where BMW "M" cars usually have side gills. Given all these characteristics, we suspect this may be an actual M3 prototype, as opposed to a test "mule." If the vehicle was a mule, it would not have production-style wheel arches, nor would it have side gills. If this is indeed the new M3, then it goes against recent reports by Germany's Autobild magazine that indicated the M3 would get a unique body style. It's also unusual to see a prototype with so little disguise in testing at this time. While the release of the 2007 3-Series coupe (see spy shots) is imminent, the M3 was not expected until some time next year. See the images after the jump.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/03/...-bmw-m3-spied/
03-16-2006, 01:03 PM
#1351
Senior Moderator
Looks like a more "rounded", updated version of the E46 M3.
03-23-2006, 03:19 PM
#1352
_____ like a rabbit
New BMW M3 Coupe First Spy Photos
Convertible caught with top down
The powerful M-version of BMW’s 3-series is scheduled for launch next year only. The 3-series M will be available as coupe, convertible and four door. For the first time power will come from a V8 powerplant. It is a 4.0 litre engine delivering 415 HP, transmission is a seven speed SMG gearbox. A traditional six-speed manual transmission will be offered as an option.
Four photos from this set are showing for the first time an M3 coupe prototype from all angles on a test drive in Munich featuring the large air intakes at the front end, wider fenders and four exhaust pipes. Another year later BMW will launch an M3 convertible - and a four door version.
Two more photos are showing the 3-series coupe in full showroom trim (these two photos were mildly computer generated). The 3-Series coupe will also get power from BMW’s new six cylinder Bi turbo engine delivering 300 HP. Clearly visible on the prototype: the corresponding two exhaust pipes.
Another two photos are of the upcoming new 3-series convertible with the top down, the other photo is from our files and shows the retractable steel roof as close up.
The powerful M-version of BMW’s 3-series is scheduled for launch next year only. The 3-series M will be available as coupe, convertible and four door. For the first time power will come from a V8 powerplant. It is a 4.0 litre engine delivering 415 HP, transmission is a seven speed SMG gearbox. A traditional six-speed manual transmission will be offered as an option.
Four photos from this set are showing for the first time an M3 coupe prototype from all angles on a test drive in Munich featuring the large air intakes at the front end, wider fenders and four exhaust pipes. Another year later BMW will launch an M3 convertible - and a four door version.
Two more photos are showing the 3-series coupe in full showroom trim (these two photos were mildly computer generated). The 3-Series coupe will also get power from BMW’s new six cylinder Bi turbo engine delivering 300 HP. Clearly visible on the prototype: the corresponding two exhaust pipes.
Another two photos are of the upcoming new 3-series convertible with the top down, the other photo is from our files and shows the retractable steel roof as close up.
03-23-2006, 04:09 PM
#1356
Engineer
yeah the current M3 is pretty mean lookin... prob the reason i still think it is awesome looking after 5 years...
03-23-2006, 04:31 PM
#1357
Three Wheelin'
the more and more i look at pics of the coupe/M3 spy shots of the E90 3 series, the more I feel that the wheels (at least on the test vehicles) are TOO small.
There also seems to be a lot of rear overhang.
Current M3 is (dare I say) a better design.
There also seems to be a lot of rear overhang.
Current M3 is (dare I say) a better design.
03-23-2006, 05:07 PM
#1360
Senior Moderator
tires dont look very big for a V8