:nod: nothing but lips moving without sound. Its time they clean house and start moving forward, not backwards. Its obvious they don't know what direction to take as they keep following the same path hoping for the right results instead of doing what it takes to get the right results.

I can't make heads or tails out of it, either. At least the MDX and RDX are winners for them, but marketing has been terrible.

Wait......ummmmm........you can't be serious......this is a joke.......right?

This being the guy who "green lights" Bette Midler, and Michael Bolton television commercials for Honda/Acura.....THIS guy?!?!?!

I can see more great taglines coming like “Built for the Human Race”

:whyme::whyme:

Honda needs to get people from outside the Honda cult.
Bring in successful people from other successful brands. Not the same old "yes" men that promise the same lies and nonsense, that we have been hearing about for decades.

Yea, we have all heard Honda say this many times before :blahblah:

Truth is, you are not the same, not even in the same league.
Acura doesn't offer the same products head to head with their competition.

Admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery....as they say..........."We may have lost focus somewhere along the way" is not fully admitting that Acura has significant troubles......and then on top of that they say they are "every bit of a luxury brand as the Germans or the other Japanese or the domestics, to be honest." ?!?!?!?!?

To be honest?!?!?! That's not honesty, that's a lie.
Admit that you are not, and then go out and get new blood to get you to where you want to be.


For crying out loud!! Cadillac knew they were not in the ballpark as BMW....and now over many years pushed and pushed....changed their ways....changed their culture....changed their quality, pushed the limits....and now they have a legitimate 3 series fighter....not to mention they decided to compete with the likes of M, AMG, S line models with their own V.

Sounds like the same old talk, same old stale promises from Honda.

Perhaps we are all very jaded at this point when it comes to Honda/Acura.

2 years ago....

I think they're worse off now than 2 years ago. Why some of these people, specifically this clown Jeff Conrad, still have jobs at Honda/Acura is a great question.

:nono:

I think it's because the company cannot go from recognizing its issues to having all its issues fixed in a short amount of time. Let's say they recognized the issues 3 years ago in 2011. By then, the ILX development was probably done (it came out in 2012). Objectively, the RLX is excellent. But the styling is way too conservative. It's an example where the company knows where the issues are, but can't fix them correctly right away.

:nono: Your comments fly in the face of what they are saying.

They believe they are on par with Lexus, MB, BMW, Audi.
They won't acknowledge that they are not.

We "may" have lost focus somewhere along the way?!?!?

May or did? Which one is it?

If you "may" have lost focus, does that mean Acura thinks it's on the right track?

If it "did" lose focus, what did it lose focus of?
Did it lose focus of being "bigger accords for all".......or did it lose focus of trying to compete with the big lux makes?

...but that doesn't make sense because the RL, TSX, TL, RDX, ZDX....basically everything outside of the MDX, has not been on par with the big lux makes.


I think dom is right....it's more :blahblah: from Honda, that does not want to admit Acura has been way off track for a decade +

I feel like we were promised great cars in the ILX and RLX (Remember comments about the ILX being an IS competitor?) and yet got what we have today. They've known fro some time the ship was sinking. They simply haven't plugged the right holes. And in fact, made the holes bigger. Anyone with eyes would have known the RLX would be an abysmal failure with that styling. There was plenty of time. The execution failed. And here we are yet again being promised change. I'll believe it when I see it.

I like the TLX's styling so its not all doom and gloom for me anyway.

You lose some credibility with this statement. You're going to honestly sit there and say that prior to 2009 they were way off track?

You're really honestly expecting a marketing guy in a marketing statement to come out and say "Yea, we fucked up"? I agree with iforyou to an extent, that they are extremely aware of what the issues are, they just don't know how to go about fixing them. The ILX and RLX were misses, but they weren't far off the mark truthfully. I'm not trying to say that they would sell any better if the issues that have been beaten to death around here were resolved, but they would at least have a better shot.

I don't have much to add other than it gets old hearing the same old shit over and over again :yawn:

Show me, don't tell me.

I am not sure I agree with you that there was time. The RL was going on its 7th or 8th year and the RLX was ready. It may not have been perfect, but it was the lesser of two evils to introduce a new model than allow the old model to continue to languish further.

The ILX was probably already slated for market release by the time the announcement was made so it would have been too late to pull it from the release cycle. It was definitely not the car it needed to be, but with a little work, it could get better.

The TLX is the first true effort following the last round of promises and, while it has room for improvement, it is far more promising so far than either the ILX or RLX. I am willing to wait to see the TLX's final pricing and model before declaring things a total loss and jumping ship for another brand.

Carbuzz.com's brief commentary on the latest development: http://www.carbuzz.com/news/2014/3/1...Saved-7719120/

How credible is this?

If legit, it might just be what they need. Could make or break the brand. They need to shed the "fancy Honda with AWD" image they've got going on right now.

My friend has a CR-Z and is a mechanic, and yet he occasionally has trouble discerning different model year Civics/Accords/TLs from each other :tomato:

The RL has been a joke long before 2009.
Acura dumped the integra & it's failed successor RSX
Acura dumped their coupe aspirations long before 2009
Acura threw the wrong engine into the RDX when they should have put a turbo 4 into the TSX.....long before 2009.

...and we won't get into lack of drive train options and power plants either...for those were lacking long before 2009 too.

2009 only got worse with the ZDX, and of course the TL...and the beak....

Ever hear some of Lutz comments on the GM products?
He was and is VERY outspoken of their failures.
example:

http://money.cnn.com/2011/06/08/auto...eview.fortune/


Honda/Acura has yet to fully acknowledge it's failed direction.
It's like a record on repeat for the past years. Same old :blahblah: with little or nothing to show for it.

Honda needs to look outside if itself for direction and design input for Acura.
....but I highly doubt they will ever do that. The cult on the inside is too strong to make such changes.

...and yes, dom is right....it's the same old...all talk...no walk.

Moog, we see things very differently. To me, just because Lutz did it his way (by heavily criticizing his own products) , it doesn't mean Honda will do the same. For the most part, those previous GM products were way below par and were total crap. Acura sedans, on the other hand, are missing certain elements (i.e. exciting styling) that make them very competitive. What elements you might ask.

I agree with CGTSX2004 regarding the upcoming TLX. I believe the development of the product started right after they talked about Acura being off track. So far, the TLX looks to be a fairly decent product.

Also, after admitting for losing focus with the Acura brand, Honda went on to show us new technologies, namely VTEC turbo, DCT with torque converter, 9spd AT, new hybrid systems, etc. So, I don't think it's really fair to say that Honda is all talk and no action....

They sure recognized (with a little help from Consumer Reports) and fixed the 9th generation Civic issues in a short amount of time.

The 9th gen Civic was released/went on sale on April 20, 2011 and 1.5 years later Honda was able to fix most of the issues and got the improved version ready for its debut at the 2012 L.A. Auto Show in November of that year.


Well, consider that the 2G TSX (debut in Mar. 2008, went on sale in April), 4G TL (debut in Aug. 2008, went on sale in Sept), and ZDX (concept debut in early 2009, went on sale early 2010) were likely in development 2 years before their release/debuts, I'd say Acura went off track since early 2006.

Hey, isn't that around the same time that RL sales in the U.S. fell by over 45%?

2006 = 11,501 RL's sold
2007 = 6,262 RL's sold

Even you have to understand that there is a reason why most around here say Honda/Acura has been all talk for years now.

Everything from "righting the ship", to new innovative products, to even down right outlandish talk of going "tier-one".

Many here are skeptical, because all there has been is talk.

FWIW....9 speed AT is behind everyone else...and DCT transmission is almost a decade late in terms of the market.....and lets not talk about turbo...honda is late to the game here too.

They are barely keeping up with the "joneses"....they gotta do better.

No more talk, honda.....put your money where your mouth is.:2cents:

Maybe my recollection of time is off but I recall big buildups to the RLX and ILX because Acura claimed to "get it". :dunno: Just my recollection, maybe I'm off but the ILX as an IS competitor stuck out to me. IMO we're hearing more of the same now. Seems like it been put up or shut up time for a couple of years at least.

In agreement with your TLX thoughts. Looking forward to it yet won't be the least bit surprised if its a letdown.

Great point.....Re-Do the RLX before more people see it :ugh:

I don't think "fairly decent" will save the brand. They're in over their heads against the Audi/BMW/MB/Lexus marques; the very brands they now say they can compete with. It's very difficult to not view their claims for the future as nothing more than desperate hyperbole.

All I can say is that breaking Acura off is a good step in the right direction. If it fails, it makes it easier to jettison the brand altogether. If it works....then well all celebrate and buy more Acuras.

Right? :) :tomato:

Basically, will my next car be an Acura, or another Cadillac?
I am waiting for what happens next at Acura, I do hope it is more than talk.

Acura should just put me in whatever the position is that makes all of their decisions..

1st thing - RLX Sport Hybrid & FWD RLX would be restyled to be more aggressive
2nd thing - A more aggressive Type S trim of the TLX will be released that looks like the Concept car
3rd thing - Type S trim for the ILX, 2.0 version killed off, 2.4 base and 2.0T version
4th thing - A performance sub-brand to compete with ///M, V, F-Sport. There will be a TLX and ILX (not fwd) version.
5th thing - A reincarnation of the S2000 branded as Acura, with no hybrid BS
6th thing - Complete Marketing overhaul
7th thing - The reintroduction of exposed tailpipes

It is what it is.

Until we see the above technologies in production Acura vehicles, otherwise up to this very moment it is still "all talk and no action" from Honda.

Still remember that diesel engine, showcased by Honda, that was to be used on the North American Acura TSX. It is one of the many classic examples of Honda's "all talk and FAILED action".

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=796361

With all of this doom and gloom talk you'd think we're talking about Saab here. While the sales numbers for the brand could be better, Acura still sells enough volume to make money - maybe not on individual models like the RLX, but overall. The reliability, interiors and performance is there, it's the just styling where there's been issues.

My restructuring would be a bit more extreme:

1. Drop the beak.

2. Drop whoever is in charge of design and restructure the design department. Pull a Lexus here and just go for it and build crazy looking production cars.

3. RWD, unless you want to be the Japanese Buick forever.

4. Drop the RLX entirely and bring back the Legend. A large RWD ONLY halo sedan packing 450+hp. Don't expect it to be a volume seller, expect it to get asses in the dealership excited about an Acura. (think CLS and A7)

5. Next gen TLX would stop being a tweener between a 3 and a 5 series and become a full sized 5 series competitor.

6. Drop the ILX, Acura can't get away with selling a reengineered Civic.

7. Create something to compete with the 3 series from the ground up. RWD based with AWD as an option.

8. Drop the hybrid NSX and replace it with the one people actually want. Also, actually build it.

9. More Michael Bolton.

TLX, ILX could benefit from RWD. The NSX would also be RWD I assume. I could see where a city like Chicago could go either way FWD or RWD.

More realistic would be to expand AWD to all models.

Acura would have to use a RWD chassis from Honda right? I highly doubt Acura would create their own, and Honda doesn't really have any need for one either.

I think the NSX is the only one.

With the tunnels as large as they have been for the Sh-AWD driveline and exhaust, it wouldnt take much to convert/make the chassis capable of RWD architecture :2cents:

And there is the problem AGAIN. They keep missing the mark and putting out vehicles that dont quite hit all the marks the way they should. Their key issues have been design, and that has been for some time now. They make a great reliable product, but the design element keeps missing the mark. The RLX "could" be a great car but its not. The TLX "could" be a great car but its not. They have had MORE than enough time to figure out the proper direction to go but have continued to drive blind.

If they were smart (wishful thinking) they would make RWD standard and market the crap out of an AWD option around here. It seems to work well for BMW and Mercedes. And get rid of acronyms like PAWS. That sounds like a Petco dog food brand. :tomato:

Google PAWS.

Dumb Honda/Acura.

https://paws.kettering.edu/images/paws.gif

It's working but it's probably not necessary. BMW is adding 15 FWD models (for whatever reason) and Audi has all FWD offerings. Lexus has both, and the RWD doesn't prevent the IS from being a snorefest.

edit: Agreed on the name crap. "PAWS" is horrible and "SH-AWD" isn't better.

The German makers are making more FWD trims because they give them the highest profit. BUT they make sure not to do any sort of marketing for FWD models.

And another reason might be that Americans have this very strong perception of seeing RWD cars as "mediocre" in terrible weather condition. So, it will probably be easier and cheaper for them to move FWD trims on their lines than AWD.

:shrug:

But yeah, Acura is just in a completely different situation since Acura doesn't have much brand equity to leverage. BMW/Audi/Lexus/MB have so much stuff to leverage out.

I found a link on Car & Driver and its pretty interesting to see the comparison between FWD/RWD/4WD percentages in different segment. Here's a quick breakdown of the luxury segments: 4WD FWD RWD


luxury compact/subcompact: 35% 25% 40%

luxury mid-sized: 31% 25% 44%

luxury full-sized: 40% 29% 31%

luxury compact CUV: 79% 13% 8%

luxury mid-size SUV/CUV: 71% 26% 3%

luxury full-size SUV: 88% 0% 12%

luxury sport: 40% 3% 57%

exotic/ultra-luxury: 25% 0% 75%



<a href="http://blog.caranddriver.com/differential-distribution-where-rwd-awd-and-fwd-vehicles-are-sold-in-the-u-s-infographic/">Full list here.</a>

There's actually an interview with the Project Lead of the current gen Civic. It's a pretty darn long interview. In short, the 2013 Civic WAS supposed to be the 2012 Civic. Honda decided to make the 2012 Civic cheap as they felt people weren't going to spend too much money on compact cars. When they realized about this mistake, it was already too late to implement fixes on the 2012 Civic. Well before the 2013 Civic came out, fixes were already being developed. So it's not that Honda was able to react quickly and fix the Civic in 1 model year. It's because the development of the fixes happened way before the 2012 model came out.

Oh I'm not saying that Honda is always right, and that they didn't lose focus. Let's not kid ourselves, Honda has changed direction of the Acura brand a few times. But my point is that, they now seem to know what they are doing. While the likes of ILX and RLX are transitional products, the TLX seems to be on the right track. More of the TLX below.

I'm not sure why you'd say 9AT is behind everyone else? Because some Dodge cars have it? As far as I know, Infiniti uses 7AT, Lexus is on 8AT, and these brands if I remember correctly, don't even have DCT. At the very least, Acura isn't exactly behind these brands in terms of tranny IMO.

Also, this DCT has a torque converter integrated. I believe that's a industry's first.

Again like I said, sure, Honda has been behind in some areas. But now they are taking action, and not just plain talk. That's all I'm saying.

Sure, fairly decent might not be enough. However, at this moment, there's not much that can be said about the car. Heck, even the spy photos shown so far are the Russian spec. I can't judge a car without at least seeing the actual thing, knowing the full specs, etc. As such, all I can say is that the car "looks fairly decent" based on the exterior design and the limited spec info that was given.

We've seen the eSH-AWD technology and DCT so far in a production Acura. The reviews have been very positive. I think that's an action, no?

I agree for the most part. The design issue is a difficult one for them......as for the TLX...too early to tell at this moment. Like I said above, I think the TLX has an attractive design, not one that would turn people away for sure. The specs so far are looking good too but really can't tell until there are some concrete numbers for us to work with.

Not going to say your wrong. We could go through the last few years of Honda/Acura annoucements and comments from upper management but I'm my mind it's pretty clear that they were off the rails as far back as 08. When the new TL and to a lesser extent TSX were released/shown. Maybe Acura didn't realize it but most people around here and in auto forums did. We're obviously seeing the timelines much differently.

But yes, they seem to be on the right path with the TLX. I think we know the V6 will be a pretty good car to drive, as the 4th gen is. I just really hope they deliver with the 4 cylinder as well. I'll be very disappointed in another 205HP version to be honest. Time to up the ante.

OK, 2 action after so many years of inactivity, and they are to be used only on ONE SINGLE Acura model - namely the most expensive top-of-the-range and also hybrid-only model, with which the factory price list has yet to come out, let alone seeing one inside Acura dealerships.

For God's sake, the SH-AWD is already 9 years old. Many potential Acura buyers have long since defected to other competitor brands.

Another thing is that what action(s) has been done to non-hybrid Acura's, for those who don't want to buy hybrids ?

Where are the DCT FWD RLX/TL/TLX/TSX/ILX ? Presumably still in the work ? Again, let the talk flies.

It is already too little, too late for the Acura sedan line.

Honda has fucked up it's Acura strategy.

Currently, the Acura auto brand is only available in a handful of countries, thus the low global sales volume.

If Honda had had globalized the Acura brand, there would be a lot more demand for (RWD) Acura vehicles worldwide.

Also, with dedicated worldwide sales channel for the Acura brand, the Honda auto brand wouldn't be able to sell Honda-rebadged RWD Acura vehicles even if it wanted to.

Then this is guarantee to put distance between the premium Acura brand and the economy Honda brand.

In other words, every person on earth would only see Acura NSX, but NEVER Honda NSX.

But unfortunately, without a global Acura presence, the existence of the upcoming Honda NSX will continue to erode the image of the supposingly more premium Acura auto brand.