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Fire this guy. Now.
"The RLX has the right package to compete with more expensive vehicles," said Art St. Cyr, American Honda's head of product planning and logistics. |
Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
(Post 14860002)
Actually, the MDX sales has already dropped by 29%.
The 2014 MDX was selling at 6K+ units per month, up to and including the 4th quarter of 2013. January consumer vehicle sales are typically lower across all manufacturers. Holiday's, gifts, cold weather and bills temporarily stall car sales. |
Originally Posted by AZuser
(Post 14860849)
I guess the 830 RLX's that were sold in October was a fluke. Is the RLX a flop yet?
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Originally Posted by biker
(Post 14861076)
As long as the numbers are in the range of the GS, M35, A6 sales levels (they'll never reach 5 series or E class levels), it's not a flop.
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1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by biker
(Post 14861076)
As long as the numbers are in the range of the GS, M35, A6 sales levels (they'll never reach 5 series or E class levels), it's not a flop.
Attachment 107912 |
Originally Posted by AZuser
(Post 14861315)
If Acura's trying to compete with the M, then the RLX is a sales success. If it's trying to compete with the GS or A6, then it's a flop.
https://i.imgur.com/mDpE00p.jpg I call that a huge flop. Vs. A6, Flop Vs. GS, Flop, Vs. E Class, Flop Vs. 5 Series, Flop Vs. 4 years old outdated M, Flop Anyone got the sales # for Genesis Sedan? |
The A6 is doing better than I thought - I seem to remember all of them (A6, GS, M) being in the 1K/mo range. It will be interesting to see what kind of sales numbers the new CTS will have. I'd say anything below 10K/yr for the RLX is a flop.
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo
(Post 14861386)
Anyone got the sales # for Genesis Sedan?
Jan 2013 = 2472 .... 1/3 = 816 Feb = 2517 .... 1/3 = 830 Mar = 3124 .... 1/3 = 1031 Apr = 2584 .... 1/3 = 853 May = 2767 .... 1/3 = 913 Jun = 2938 .... 1/3 = 969 Jul = 2842 .... 1/3 = 938 Aug = 2947 .... 1/3 = 972 Sep = 2926 .... 1/3 = 965 Oct = 1944 .... 1/3 = 641 Nov = 1989 .... 1/3 = 656 Dec = 3280 .... 1/3 = 1082 Jan 2014 = 1459 .... 1/3 = 481 ___________________________________ Total 2013 sales: 32,330 .... 1/3 = 10,669 Total (Feb '13 - Jan '14): 31,317 .... 1/3 = 10,334 |
That is weird that they don't separate the sedan and the coupe since they are completely different cars with different targeted groups.
I think they sell more than 8XX a month of the sedan. I see them everywhere. |
For sales # padding. Some automakers do that, maybe they feel they need to in order to make the Genesis as a model seem more successful.
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Originally Posted by December 10, 2012 - 12:01 am ET
LOS ANGELES -- Acura sales are climbing again after last year's earthquake-caused inventory crisis, but the launch of the ILX compact sedan has been a disappointment for Honda's premium brand.
Now Acura is planning a powertrain change for the ILX and will highlight technical features on the RLX flagship sedan due next spring as part of a strategy to return brand sales to the 200,000 level. The ILX "is not hitting its sales expectations," said John Mendel, American Honda executive vice president. :co: Last month Acura sold 2,108 ILXs, compared with sales of 3,574 Veranos, 3,343 A4s and 2,197 CCs. What's more, the upmarket 2.4-liter engine only comes with a manual transmission. Though it's pitched as a performance feature, few Acura buyers actually want to row the gears. "The car was planned for a 2.4 automatic, and we're working to fulfill that," Mendel said, though he could not say when. "We're looking to sell about 30,000 units a year, and we're probably closer to 22 or 24 right now," Mendel said, speaking of the annual sales rate. "We're hitting two-thirds of our expectations, but we're growing every month and catching on more." The launches of the ILX and RDX set the tone for the redesigned RLX flagship sedan due next spring. The current RL has been a flop, averaging just 35 sales a month for the past two years. Mendel wants to market the RLX as a technical tour de force, but with the twist that it offers "technology that improves your skills, not that takes them away." That means pushing items like the RLX's standard Precision All-Wheel Steering (PAWS) system, which allows the rear wheels to have independent toe control during cornering. The rear wheels have their toe-in angles adjusted by electronic actuators while cornering, giving much crisper handling. "The RLX has the right package to compete with more expensive vehicles," said Art St. Cyr, American Honda's head of product planning and logistics. "The previous RL didn't match what the customers were looking for." http://www.autonews.com/article/2012...EM03/312109938
Originally Posted by AZuser
(Post 14860849)
20,430 ILX's sold in 2013. At this rate, they're not ever going to hit their 30,000/year sales goal (revised from 40,000/year).
https://i.imgur.com/XWH3Lrz.jpg I guess the 830 RLX's that were sold in October was a fluke. Is the RLX a flop yet? https://i.imgur.com/NG9PhGX.jpg |
I still don't understand why they thought it was a good idea to kill off the TSX in favor of the ILX. The TSX has always sold very well. I think they should have instead created a third generation TSX that is a bit smaller in order to differentiate it more from the TLX.
And don't do idiotic things like only offer a 6MT with the Sport Edition, especially when you cannot get navigation in the Sport Edition. They had it right on the money with the first generation. It was so simple. The options were 4-cylinder with automatic or manual transmission, and with or without navigation. Done. If they would have done a 3G TSX with the model setup of the 1G, and with an upcoming addition of a turbo-4 to the NA 4-cylinder and V6 options, I think they would have been much better off. |
Originally Posted by RPhilMan1
(Post 14863056)
I still don't understand why they thought it was a good idea to kill off the TSX in favor of the ILX. The TSX has always sold very well. I think they should have instead created a third generation TSX that is a bit smaller in order to differentiate it more from the TLX.
And don't do idiotic things like only offer a 6MT with the Sport Edition, especially when you cannot get navigation in the Sport Edition. They had it right on the money with the first generation. It was so simple. The options were 4-cylinder with automatic or manual transmission, and with or without navigation. Done. If they would have done a 3G TSX with the model setup of the 1G, and with an upcoming addition of a turbo-4 to the NA 4-cylinder and V6 options, I think they would have been much better off. |
Originally Posted by AZuser
(Post 14861972)
Hyundai unfortunately doesn't break down sedan vs coupe sales for the Genesis. But let's say sedan sales make up 1/3 of total sales. Even at 1/3, it's still selling better. And for a model at the end of its life too.
Jan 2013 = 2472 .... 1/3 = 816 Feb = 2517 .... 1/3 = 830 Mar = 3124 .... 1/3 = 1031 Apr = 2584 .... 1/3 = 853 May = 2767 .... 1/3 = 913 Jun = 2938 .... 1/3 = 969 Jul = 2842 .... 1/3 = 938 Aug = 2947 .... 1/3 = 972 Sep = 2926 .... 1/3 = 965 Oct = 1944 .... 1/3 = 641 Nov = 1989 .... 1/3 = 656 Dec = 3280 .... 1/3 = 1082 Jan 2014 = 1459 .... 1/3 = 481 ___________________________________ Total 2013 sales: 32,330 .... 1/3 = 10,669 Total (Feb '13 - Jan '14): 31,317 .... 1/3 = 10,334 |
MMC's coming soon:
ILX Type-Flop with "refined" power plenum and dual screen "upgrade" RLX Type-Flop with "refined" power plenum and lane watch DEEPLY DISCOUNTED POWER PLENUMS FOR MANKIND :scrib: |
Originally Posted by AZuser
(Post 14860849)
20,430 ILX's sold in 2013. At this rate, they're not ever going to hit their 30,000/year sales goal (revised from 40,000/year).
I guess the 830 RLX's that were sold in October was a fluke. Is the RLX a flop yet? The RLX is an exponentially better sales success than its predecessor. How can you call it a flop? |
Originally Posted by dom
(Post 14863121)
Its more likely 2/3's or even more. So 20K a year would be my guess.
Correct. For 2012 - Hyundai sold 23k of the Genesis sedan and probably close to that for 2013. Should do around 30k/yr w/ the new Genesis due to the addition of AWD. The sedan has been a sales success for Hyundai, but the coupe has been a flop (but then again, higher priced Asian coupes have had a difficult time against the pony cars); which is why the next coupe should do better comparatively as it goes upscale and competes against the Q60 and the Lexus IS-based coupe. |
Commercial
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So competitions are all machines and Acura is mammal?
Or RLX came from behind and beat NSX and TLX? What is Acura trying to say? |
It's a gas that one of these cars sucks and the other two don't exist yet. Great commercials. Euthanize the RLX, please.
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo
(Post 14867125)
What is Acura trying to say?
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They aired that commercial tonight during the Olympics broadcast. I was thinking to myself - those horses are better designed than the new Acuras.
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Originally Posted by AZuser
(Post 14867410)
Acura is saying it wants to do the next Transformers movie. The horse transforms into an RLX. I guess the other horses transformed into a TLX and NSX. :shrug:
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Originally Posted by phile
(Post 14888100)
They aired that commercial tonight during the Olympics broadcast. I was thinking to myself - those horses are better designed than the new Acuras.
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Originally Posted by fsttyms1
(Post 14888169)
At least they didnt have beaks :snicker:
ACURA: Stop calling the RLX the flagship. All it does is solidify the fact that you're never actually making the NSX. Why would you build and sell the NSX and then base the rest of your products on that design language? Jesus, Honda. /rant...time for coffee |
Originally Posted by kurtatx
(Post 14888445)
ACURA: Stop calling the RLX the flagship. All it does is solidify the fact that you're never actually making the NSX.
The RLX is called a flagship because... well, I'll let Car and Driver explain it: Luxury carmakers virtually always have one vehicle—usually their biggest sedan—that they consider their flagship. It’s the car they want commanders of industry, government, and organized crime to choose as their lead vessels. They’re the cars that let people know the boss has arrived. And they’re the cars that, when you buy one, announce that you’ve arrived. The term “flagship” derives from the idea that a “flag officer”—an admiral or other senior officer entitled to fly a flag representing his command—should have one ship from which he exercises his leadership. Flagships are vessels such as the HMS Victory from whose deck Admiral Horatio Nelson led 27 ships of the British Royal Navy in 1805’s Battle of Trafalgar, ultimately defeating 33 ships from the combined French and Spanish navies. But why did Nelson pick the Victory and not one of the fleet’s other ships, say, the Orion, the Neptune, or the Leviathan ? Size. As one of the largest ships in Her Majesty’s navy, the Victory boasted three decks of cannons, with a total tally in excess of 100 guns. A ship like that radiates confidence, strength, and the ineffable quality of leadership. When a luxury carmaker builds a flagship today, it’s trying to capture that same essence of excellence. A great flagship sets the tone for an automaker’s entire line. A halo car is something that's unique and is designed to draw attention to the brand and gets people into the dealer/show room. Few will buy it due to its high price and/or exclusivity. Instead, people will opt to buy the manufacturers regular models. In Acura's case, it's the RLX, TLX, ILX, MDX, and RDX. |
Originally Posted by AZuser
(Post 14888778)
You may be confusing "flagship" with "halo car."
The RLX is called a flagship because... well, I'll let Car and Driver explain it: So yes, the RLX is Acura's flagship. Is it a good flagship? No. But that's an entirely different matter. A halo car is something that's unique and is designed to draw attention to the brand and gets people into the dealer/show room. Few will buy it due to its high price and/or exclusivity. Instead, people will opt to buy the manufacturers regular models. In Acura's case, it's the MDX and RDX. |
Originally Posted by oonowindoo
(Post 14867125)
What is Acura trying to say?
"A power that goes beyond the machine." It's more than the sum of its parts. |
But why did Nelson pick the Victory and not one of the fleet’s other ships, say, the Orion, the Neptune, or the Leviathan ? Size. As one of the largest ships in Her Majesty’s navy, the Victory boasted three decks of cannons, with a total tally in excess of 100 guns. A ship like that radiates confidence, strength, and the ineffable quality of leadership. When a luxury carmaker builds a flagship today, it’s trying to capture that same essence of excellence. We don't have 100 guns. But we have a lot of LED's! :-) "Hit them with the full beams, Captain Hardy!" |
Originally Posted by Fibonacci
(Post 14864445)
MMC's coming soon:
RLX Type-Flop with "refined" power plenum and lane watch The winter has been very bad, so cleared roads will sometimes have lines of white chemicals in the travel lanes. This can sometimes confuse the LKAS cameras into thinking that there area more lines on the road than there really are. And of course if you are using LKAS on a US primary road instead of the Interstate, then you have to be prepared for the fact that LKAS will lose its bead when you are traveling through intersections. But those two issues are to be expected of any system that uses cameras to determine where the lanes are. Seems fully, reasonably to be expected. So...I'm curious what we think needs to change about a system that is more or less on the leading edge if not the cutting edge of technology in 2014. Not mad...just curious.... DEEPLY DISCOUNTED POWER PLENUMS FOR MANKIND :scrib: At 61,500 an RLX Advance might get a second look and you might want to argue about its worth, discounting reliability and maintenance costs (which are obviously in Honda's favor), against an A6 or rear drive E Class. But with ten grand off the sticker, it's more or less a no brainer class leading best buy, hands down. Of course, that's just one dumb old man's opinion, but I have not regretted it so far with 4500 miles. |
Startling mid range performance, too.
In those real world situations where you have to move quickly from, say, 25-60, or 45-80, the RLX's J35Y4 really shines. They did a great job tuning this motor. |
No one's bashing the motor...
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The Acura flagship sedan is a very nicely built car, with a great motor and lots of high tech gadgets.
But even with huge discounts, premium sedan buyers are still not buying it. :shrug: |
Originally Posted by George Knighton
(Post 14890014)
Startling mid range performance, too.
In those real world situations where you have to move quickly from, say, 25-60, or 45-80, the RLX's J35Y4 really shines. They did a great job tuning this motor. |
Originally Posted by George Knighton
(Post 14890005)
They said it.
"A power that goes beyond the machine." It's more than the sum of its parts. |
BloomBerg
Honda Motor Co. (7267), which saw a 10% drop in U.S. Acura sedan sales last year, is creating a new group to plan business development for the premium brand. Erik Berkman, president of Honda R&D Americas, will become executive vice president for the North American unit and division manager of the newly created Acura Business Planning Office, Honda said today in a statement. The Tokyo-based company didn’t provide any details on how the division will operate. In December Tetsuo Iwamura, Honda’s executive vice president and current North American chief, said focusing on Acura, particularly its sedan lineup, was a top priority for the company. A 10% drop in combined sales of Acura’s ILX, TSX, TL and RLX sedans kept Honda from a goal of achieving record sales in 2013 and overshadowed gains for the brand’s more successful MDX and RDX sport-utility vehicles. “Erik’s appointment to the new Acura Business Planning Office is a clear indication of the high priority we place on Acura,” Jeffrey Smith, a Honda spokesman, said in a phone interview. Berkman “brings very strong and dynamic leadership to the Acura brand,” he said. Berkman, who joined Honda in 1982, led development of the 2004 TL sport sedan, among the most-successful cars in Acura’s history. He was head of North American research and development, the 1st U.S. engineer to hold that job. Smith declined to comment on specific changes being considered for Acura or on how the Berkman-led group will operate. Berkman wasn’t available for comment. The news of Berkman’s new assignment came after Honda today said it will name Hideko Kunii, a professor of engineering at Japan’s Shibaura Institute of Technology, as the 1st woman to join the company’s board. Honda’s U.S. sales unit is based in Torrance, California, and the company’s North American headquarters are in Marysville, Ohio. Honda’s American depositary receipts fell 0.1% to $36.12 at the close in New York. |
^^^^Wait...they're coming to the realization there's a problem?!
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only 10% decrease? It feels more like 40%.
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Originally Posted by George Knighton
(Post 14890011)
I'm curious what you mean by lane watch, and what needs to change about it. Although they're not the very first with an LKAS that actually steers the vehicle instead of braking to drag the car back into line, it's still certainly relatively new technology and more or less leading edge.
So...I'm curious what we think needs to change about a system that is more or less on the leading edge if not the cutting edge of technology in 2014. Not mad...just curious.... The Accord never even offered Xenon HID's, but made the leap to LED's on the Touring. That's a self-induced error. LED's should be an Acura exclusive, Xenon HID's should be the highest end lighting on Honda Touring models IMO, that's just basic marketing. I'm not going to comment on LKAS because its not a feature that I appreciate or would use. I would find use from lane watch to enhance Blind Spot assist. At 61,500 an RLX Advance might get a second look and you might want to argue about its worth, discounting reliability and maintenance costs (which are obviously in Honda's favor), against an A6 or rear drive E Class. But with ten grand off the sticker, it's more or less a no brainer class leading best buy, hands down. I find it somewhat strange that Acura felt the need to have 5 different "models" of the RLX 1. Base 2. Navi 3. Tech 4. Krell 5. Advance Really? There only needs to be 3. 1. Base (for those who don't want Navi) 2. Tech (w/ Navi like the rest of the lineup) 3. Advance (including Krell) Acura should be spending the money on more interior color choices, better quality materials and dump the dual screen madness. :2cents: Regardless, the RLX is not in a weight class I enjoy. Not sure what I'll replace my 6MT with, but it won't be a luxo barge, I enjoy driving too much. :smile: |
Originally Posted by oonowindoo
(Post 14893519)
only 10% decrease? It feels more like 40%.
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