Acura: Sales, Marketing, and Financial News
06-15-2019, 12:18 AM
#4681
06-17-2019, 04:14 PM
#4682
Team Owner
^ Honda/Acura has other platforms to use nowadays 
I mean if they have 1, i would be very very surprised that ILX will be the first one to get it.
I mean if they have 1, i would be very very surprised that ILX will be the first one to get it.
06-19-2019, 08:00 AM
#4684
AZ Community Team
07-02-2019, 12:57 PM
#4685
Safety Car
June 2019
https://acuranews.com/acura-automobi...-sales-results
American Honda Announces June Sales Results
Jul 2, 2019- Sales of Honda trucks were strong in June, with Ridgeline gaining 5%, CR-V exceeding 30,000 deliveries, and both Passport and Pilot finishing at high levels
- Honda Civic maintains compact segment sales leadership with nearly 30,000 units sold in June
- Refreshed 2019 Acura ILX sales jump 42% in June, strengthening its position near the top of its segment
Total
135,901
-7.3%
Cars
61,899
-9.1%
Trucks
74,002
-5.7%
Total
123,753
-6.3%
Cars
58,706
-9.3%
Trucks
65,047
-3.3%
Total
12,148
-16.4%
Cars
3,193
-4.6%
Trucks
8,955
-19.9%
"With about 25 percent retail market share, the Honda Civic continues to be the benchmark vehicle in the compact segment," said Henio Arcangeli, Jr. senior vice president of Automobile Sales at American Honda Motor Co. "For Acura, RDX continues to deliver solid results, remaining the retail sales leader in the most competitive segment in the luxury market."
BRAND REPORT
Sales Highlights
With another month of sales near 30,000 units, Civic maintained its grip on the compact car segment, even as new or renewed competitors come to market. Honda trucks and electrified vehicles also exhibited sales strength in June.
- CR-V and Civic continued to lead Honda sales, with CR-V topping 30,000 units and Civic nearly reaching the same benchmark.
- Pilot also posted a strong month on sales of 11,579 units, Ridgeline gained 5% on sales of 2,761 units, 3,385 Passports were delivered, and Odyssey led all minivans on sales of 9,202.
- Electrified vehicle sales again topped 5,500 for the month, with Insight and Accord Hybrid both posting retail sales of more than 2,000 units.
Model Notes
Civic continues to set itself apart as the runaway retail best-selling car in America three-and-a-half years running, with refreshed Hatchback, Si and Type R models coming soon.
Light truck leadership: CR-V is the #1 SUV in America, Pilot and HR-V are retail #2 in their respective segments and Odyssey is the #1 minivan in America.
BRAND REPORT
Sales Highlights
Acura ILX continued to gain strength since its refresh with a strong showing in June, helping to strengthen its position near the top of its segment. MDX also gained for the month and RDX continues to lead the compact luxury SUV segment in retail sales for the year.
- Sales of Acura's gateway luxury sport sedan, the ILX, jumped 41.7% on sales of 1,312 units in June.
- MDX sales were up 5% for the month with 4,087 units delivered, while RDX posted another strong month with 4,868 units sold.
Model Notes
Nearly 99% of all Acuras sold in the U.S. are made in America – five of six Acura models are built in Ohio -- topping all but one luxury brand.
Building on an all-time annual sales record in 2018, Acura light-truck momentum continues, with RDX and MDX combining for a double-digit sales gain this year.
# # #
Back to Top
Honda North America | 1919 Torrance Boulevard | Torrance, CA 90501 | Media Contacts
Related Photos
2019 Honda Ridgeline
Related Document
2019 June Honda & Acura Sales - FINAL.xls
07-02-2019, 01:21 PM
#4686
MDX sales were up 5% for the month with 4,087 units delivered, while RDX posted another strong month with 4,868 units sold.
That's a big drop in Y/Y RDX sales. It hasn't had a decline since May 2018Big decline in RLX sales again. 2nd month in a row under 100. The sales boost the MMC gave is gone.
Civic continues to set itself apart as the runaway retail best-selling car in America three-and-a-half years running, with refreshed Hatchback, Si and Type R models coming soon.
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RPhilMan1 (07-03-2019)
07-02-2019, 03:39 PM
#4687
Team Owner
I asked my local dealers about the RDX pricing for a friend.. the #s are 
07-02-2019, 06:45 PM
#4689
Team Owner
I would not be surprised.... at least a good chunk of it...
07-03-2019, 02:44 AM
#4690
Chinese market is keeping away Yeh from posting here.
Honda?s China deliveries in June jump 37.4% year on year - Gasgoo
Shanghai (Gasgoo)- In June, Honda delivered 148,382 vehicles in China, a remarkable year-on-year growth of 37.4%, the Japanese automaker’s China branch announced on July 3.
Honda?s China deliveries in June jump 37.4% year on year - Gasgoo
Shanghai (Gasgoo)- In June, Honda delivered 148,382 vehicles in China, a remarkable year-on-year growth of 37.4%, the Japanese automaker’s China branch announced on July 3.
07-03-2019, 12:09 PM
#4691
Team Owner
O shit....
07-06-2019, 04:07 PM
#4694
For a US/NA-centric site, a weird obsession w/ China.
But why the focus on China; why not Europe (plus, don't have to share half of the profits)?
Thru May:
H/K - 445,515
Honda - 54,551
But that's neither here nor there.
Honda is down for the year here in the States, whereas Hyundai has 11 straight months of growth (which will continue w/ the Palisade just rolling into lots and the new Sonata and Venue on the way).
Expect the Palisade to be in high demand like the Telluride; Kia is selling every Telluride they make and they stopped taking orders for the top trim, as there is a 5-6 month wait.
But of more interest is the fare of Acura. particularly, Acura sedans.
June:
TLX - 1,812
RLX - 50
Pretty sad considering that the US is pretty much the only major market; will the RLX even hit 1,500 in sales worldwide?
Meanwhile Genesis is on track to sell somewhere close to 25k of the G90 (which is a good bit pricier than the RLX) worldwide; which is also considerably more than the LS (which is on track to do 8-10k in sales worldwide).
And w/ Mazda switching to a RWD platform and a straight-6 powertrain, don't know why any enthusiast-oriented buyer opt for Acura (much less Honda) over Mazda (the cherry on top is that Mazdas already look a better/more luxurious than Acuras).
Enjoy those comparison tests where an Acura model beats the equivalent Buick.
Not going to see comparisons like these:
https://www.autoguide.com/car-compar...vs-genesis-g70
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesl...mparison-test/
But why the focus on China; why not Europe (plus, don't have to share half of the profits)?
Thru May:
H/K - 445,515
Honda - 54,551
But that's neither here nor there.
Honda is down for the year here in the States, whereas Hyundai has 11 straight months of growth (which will continue w/ the Palisade just rolling into lots and the new Sonata and Venue on the way).
Expect the Palisade to be in high demand like the Telluride; Kia is selling every Telluride they make and they stopped taking orders for the top trim, as there is a 5-6 month wait.
But of more interest is the fare of Acura. particularly, Acura sedans.
June:
TLX - 1,812
RLX - 50
Pretty sad considering that the US is pretty much the only major market; will the RLX even hit 1,500 in sales worldwide?
Meanwhile Genesis is on track to sell somewhere close to 25k of the G90 (which is a good bit pricier than the RLX) worldwide; which is also considerably more than the LS (which is on track to do 8-10k in sales worldwide).
And w/ Mazda switching to a RWD platform and a straight-6 powertrain, don't know why any enthusiast-oriented buyer opt for Acura (much less Honda) over Mazda (the cherry on top is that Mazdas already look a better/more luxurious than Acuras).
Enjoy those comparison tests where an Acura model beats the equivalent Buick.
Not going to see comparisons like these:
https://www.autoguide.com/car-compar...vs-genesis-g70
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesl...mparison-test/
Last edited by YEH; 07-06-2019 at 04:11 PM.
07-07-2019, 03:15 PM
#4695
Europe and particularly UK are fleet sales market. Honda does not participate in it. Honda CRV in EU is more expensive than BMW X3. its like comparing luxury brand sales.
when I was bringing North American sales. you would bring Hyundai factories in China.
RLX and TLX are on tail end of there life. Honda does not have hybrids in SUVs to compete with Toyota yet.
3 RWD sedans are barely selling 10K in 6 months. This barely reaching TLX sales. what a joke company.
used car price is reflective of devalued brand. 30% drop in one year.
when I was bringing North American sales. you would bring Hyundai factories in China.
RLX and TLX are on tail end of there life. Honda does not have hybrids in SUVs to compete with Toyota yet.
3 RWD sedans are barely selling 10K in 6 months. This barely reaching TLX sales. what a joke company.
https://www.carscoops.com/2019/07/ge...he-sporty-g70/
In the first half of this year, the South Korean car manufacturer sold 10,007 vehicles across the country. That’s nothing compared to the likes of Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and Audi, but it is a 37.8 per cent improvement on the 7,262 vehicles sold during the first half of 2018.
In the first half of this year, the South Korean car manufacturer sold 10,007 vehicles across the country. That’s nothing compared to the likes of Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and Audi, but it is a 37.8 per cent improvement on the 7,262 vehicles sold during the first half of 2018.
used car price is reflective of devalued brand. 30% drop in one year.
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/ctd...927186309.html
2018 Genesis G90 5.0 Ultimate sedan Victoria Black - $49997 (No Brainer Price)
2018 Genesis G90 5.0 Ultimate sedan Victoria Black - $49997 (No Brainer Price)
07-07-2019, 08:42 PM
#4696
Oh. We're playing that game again? Sweet! 
May I join?
2018 Acura RLX Sport Hybrid with Advance Package
MSRP: $62,895
$62,895 - $39,125 = devalued brand by $23,770 or 37.8% for a 9 month old car (per CarFax)
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing
May I join?2018 Acura RLX Sport Hybrid with Advance Package
MSRP: $62,895
$62,895 - $39,125 = devalued brand by $23,770 or 37.8% for a 9 month old car (per CarFax)
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing
07-07-2019, 08:56 PM
#4697
Team Owner
^ he is going to find that 1 Genesis out of the 10000 used ones to show you that Hyundai is at 37.9%
The following users liked this post:
YEH (07-08-2019)
07-08-2019, 12:07 AM
#4698
Oh. We're playing that game again? Sweet! May I join?
2018 Acura RLX Sport Hybrid with Advance Package
MSRP: $62,895
$62,895 - $39,125 = devalued brand by $23,770 or 37.8% for a 9 month old car (per CarFax)
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing
May I join?2018 Acura RLX Sport Hybrid with Advance Package
MSRP: $62,895
$62,895 - $39,125 = devalued brand by $23,770 or 37.8% for a 9 month old car (per CarFax)
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing
The car you posted is driven 27000 miles. and is last year of its model not even latest infotainment. 27000 miles in a year is like 3 year old car.
I posted is only driven less than 5K miles. its the 5.0L AWD version.
77-45=32/77= 41.5% depreciation.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...1440/overview/
USED
2018 Genesis G90 5.0 Ultimate
SAVE
4,530 miles
Good Deal
$44,999
07-08-2019, 12:15 AM
#4699
Case closed!
The RLX had the worst 3-yr depreciation for lux models $80k or less.
Note, the RLX did worse than the prior gen Kia K900, which lost additional value due to being replaced by the new gen model.
And really, falling back on such an argument (depreciation) is a crutch, b/c German lux brands are always among the leaders and yet, their buyers (or more like lessees) don't care.
On top of that, the ILX is a regular on CR's list of Least Satisfying Cars.
The ILX has actually been the least satisfactory model according to owners.
The RLX had the worst 3-yr depreciation for lux models $80k or less.
Note, the RLX did worse than the prior gen Kia K900, which lost additional value due to being replaced by the new gen model.
And really, falling back on such an argument (depreciation) is a crutch, b/c German lux brands are always among the leaders and yet, their buyers (or more like lessees) don't care.
On top of that, the ILX is a regular on CR's list of Least Satisfying Cars.
Sometimes you just can't transcend humble origins. Trying to make a premium model out of the previous generation Honda Civic is a fool's errand, as proved by the Acura ILX.
Adding projector headlights and slapping the Acura badge on the car shouldn't deceive anyone. There's nothing wrong with the concept of providing an upscale experience in a small package, but the ILX's hard ride, loud cabin, and lack of some essential features undermine that goal.
Charging $30,000 for the ILX amounts to total chutzpah on Honda's part. And based on the low owner satisfaction score, buyers agree.
Adding projector headlights and slapping the Acura badge on the car shouldn't deceive anyone. There's nothing wrong with the concept of providing an upscale experience in a small package, but the ILX's hard ride, loud cabin, and lack of some essential features undermine that goal.
Charging $30,000 for the ILX amounts to total chutzpah on Honda's part. And based on the low owner satisfaction score, buyers agree.
Last edited by YEH; 07-08-2019 at 12:26 AM.
07-08-2019, 12:15 AM
#4700
07-08-2019, 12:27 AM
#4701
The car you posted is driven 27000 miles. and is last year of its model not even latest infotainment. 27000 miles in a year is like 3 year old car.
I posted is only driven less than 5K miles. its the 5.0L AWD version.
77-45=32/77= 41.5% depreciation.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...1440/overview/
USED
2018 Genesis G90 5.0 Ultimate
SAVE
4,530 miles
Good Deal
$44,999
I posted is only driven less than 5K miles. its the 5.0L AWD version.
77-45=32/77= 41.5% depreciation.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...1440/overview/
USED
2018 Genesis G90 5.0 Ultimate
SAVE
4,530 miles
Good Deal
$44,999
https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistor...&partner=COO_0
Here's another 2018 RLX Sport Hybrid with Advance Package with lower miles (18,491) for not much more ($39,900) and is Certified and accident-free per CarFax
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing
Last edited by AZuser; 07-08-2019 at 12:31 AM.
The following 2 users liked this post by AZuser:
oonowindoo (07-08-2019),
YEH (07-08-2019)
07-08-2019, 12:47 AM
#4702
^^ This is how deluded you are.
RLX sales
2017 - 1,237
2018 - 1,931
2019 - 673
G90 sales
2017 - 4,398
2018 - 2,136 [Genesis stopped shipping 2018 models back in March/April of last year, so there weren't any new shipments (of 2019 models) for about 6-7 months.]
2019 - 939
In 2017, alone, Genesis sold more G90's than Acura did the RLX over 2.5 years.
And the RLX doesn't compete against the G90, but rather the G80, which totally blows the RLX away in sales.
Not surprisingly, you keep repeating the same ignorant claims despite my having already corrected you.
This is what I had posted during Feb. of this year.
Lame excuse.
A new G80 is set to launch later this year in Korea and early next year here.
The G90 got its facelift 9 months ago, so an all-new model isn't that far away either.
And this isn't about Lexus.
RLX sales
2017 - 1,237
2018 - 1,931
2019 - 673
G90 sales
2017 - 4,398
2018 - 2,136 [Genesis stopped shipping 2018 models back in March/April of last year, so there weren't any new shipments (of 2019 models) for about 6-7 months.]
2019 - 939
In 2017, alone, Genesis sold more G90's than Acura did the RLX over 2.5 years.
And the RLX doesn't compete against the G90, but rather the G80, which totally blows the RLX away in sales.
Not surprisingly, you keep repeating the same ignorant claims despite my having already corrected you.
Europe and particularly UK are fleet sales market. Honda does not participate in it. Honda CRV in EU is more expensive than BMW X3. its like comparing luxury brand sales.
when I was bringing North American sales. you would bring Hyundai factories in China.
when I was bringing North American sales. you would bring Hyundai factories in China.
This is what I had posted during Feb. of this year.
One of H/K biggest sellers in Europe are the Tucson and Sportage CUVs, along w/ the i30 and Ceed.
Actually, H/K don't do much of fleet/rental sales in Europe - they're actually looking to grow their corporate/business sales, but need to add hybrids to lower the CO2 tax rate.
For example, in France.
Kia's privates sales % is 68%.
Which is actually better than Toyota's (67%) and one of the highest overall.
P+B (private + business) - Kia is at 76%.
Hyundai is at 71% for P+B.
For comparison's sake - Lexus is at 74% (of which only 44% is private; 30% being business).
As for Honda - 49% P and 3% B for a total of 52% for P+B.
So not only does Honda sell far less than H/K in France (and the rest of Europe), their proportion of P+B sales is also (significantly) lower.
Last year, H/K sold 1,038,154 vehicles in the EU countries.
Honda sold 135,584.
Actually, H/K don't do much of fleet/rental sales in Europe - they're actually looking to grow their corporate/business sales, but need to add hybrids to lower the CO2 tax rate.
For example, in France.
Kia's privates sales % is 68%.
Which is actually better than Toyota's (67%) and one of the highest overall.
P+B (private + business) - Kia is at 76%.
Hyundai is at 71% for P+B.
For comparison's sake - Lexus is at 74% (of which only 44% is private; 30% being business).
As for Honda - 49% P and 3% B for a total of 52% for P+B.
So not only does Honda sell far less than H/K in France (and the rest of Europe), their proportion of P+B sales is also (significantly) lower.
Last year, H/K sold 1,038,154 vehicles in the EU countries.
Honda sold 135,584.
RLX and TLX are on tail end of there life. Honda does not have hybrids in SUVs to compete with Toyota yet.
3 RWD sedans are barely selling 10K in 6 months. This barely reaching TLX sales. what a joke company.
3 RWD sedans are barely selling 10K in 6 months. This barely reaching TLX sales. what a joke company.
A new G80 is set to launch later this year in Korea and early next year here.
The G90 got its facelift 9 months ago, so an all-new model isn't that far away either.
And this isn't about Lexus.
Last edited by YEH; 07-08-2019 at 12:59 AM.
07-08-2019, 01:46 AM
#4703
RLX sales are half of 2017 while G90 sales are 25% of 2017 sales in 2019. so who has steeper fall?. and these are few hundred unit difference.
Honda does not have factories in Eastern EU like H/K group. Honda only had Swindon plant and that is exporting outside EU.
Certified Acura does not mean free maintaince. it only increase power train warranty to 7 years. still less than 10 years of Genesis.
No matter how many versions of G70/G80/G90 are launched. the overall sales are going to be less than ILX/TLX/RLX in NA market.
Honda does not have factories in Eastern EU like H/K group. Honda only had Swindon plant and that is exporting outside EU.
https://japantoday.com/category/poli...ts-to-s.-korea
Japan made good on its threat to curb technology exports to South Korea on Thursday, a move expected to deal a major blow to South Korean manufacturers amid a diplomatic row over wartime labor.
The new restrictions apply to three materials -- fluorinated polyimide, resist and hydrogen fluoride -- used in the manufacturing of semiconductors and display screens for smartphones and TVs.
Japan made good on its threat to curb technology exports to South Korea on Thursday, a move expected to deal a major blow to South Korean manufacturers amid a diplomatic row over wartime labor.
The new restrictions apply to three materials -- fluorinated polyimide, resist and hydrogen fluoride -- used in the manufacturing of semiconductors and display screens for smartphones and TVs.
No matter how many versions of G70/G80/G90 are launched. the overall sales are going to be less than ILX/TLX/RLX in NA market.
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/ctd...912020514.html
2018 Genesis G80 5.0 sedan Victoria Black - $42880 (No Brainer Price)
2018 Genesis G80 5.0 sedan Victoria Black - $42880 (No Brainer Price)
07-08-2019, 05:02 AM
#4704
Who is talking about free maintaince [sic]? No one except you.
So what you're saying is the Genesis is better because of the 10 yr warranty. 
Why did you go from a 2018 G90 to a 2018 G80 that's selling for $42,880, or $14,120 (24.8%) less than its MSRP of $57,000?
Is it to point out that the G80 devalued less than the white 2018 RLX that's selling for $39,990, or $22,995 (36.6%) less than its MSRP of $62,895?
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/ctd...912020514.html
2018 Genesis G80 5.0 sedan Victoria Black - $42880 (No Brainer Price)
2018 Genesis G80 5.0 sedan Victoria Black - $42880 (No Brainer Price)
Is it to point out that the G80 devalued less than the white 2018 RLX that's selling for $39,990, or $22,995 (36.6%) less than its MSRP of $62,895?
07-08-2019, 05:48 AM
#4705
Of course Genesis will sell less G70, G80, and G90 combined than Acura will sell ILX, TLX, and RLX combined.- Genesis has a much smaller dealer network than Acura, limiting market reach.
- Genesis doesn't have an ILX competitor.
- Acura doesn't have a G90 competitor.
- G70 is a brand new model (less than 1 year on the market). TL(X) has been around for decades so it has an established market and audience.
If anything, it should be total G70 and G80 sales vs total TLX and RLX sales. We already know the G80 outsells the RLX by a lot. And over time the G70 will sell more that it is now. It's too early to say how the G70 will do over time.
07-08-2019, 08:18 AM
#4706
ILX is built on old civic platform, RLX is old Accord. TLX is old engines no turbo or hybrid.
and if new brand RWD with free maintiance cannot compete with them. than whats left.
Genesis has home delivery option.
and if new brand RWD with free maintiance cannot compete with them. than whats left.
Genesis has home delivery option.
07-08-2019, 09:00 AM
#4707
AZ Community Team
07-08-2019, 12:40 PM
#4708
Team Owner
Oh dude... did you just admit that Genesis is better than RLX?
07-08-2019, 12:41 PM
#4709
Moderator
07-08-2019, 02:35 PM
#4710
The obvious conclusion is that he sold his Acura and bought a Hyundai.
07-08-2019, 04:02 PM
#4711
Case closed!
The RLX had the worst 3-yr depreciation for lux models $80k or less.
Note, the RLX did worse than the prior gen Kia K900, which lost additional value due to being replaced by the new gen model.
And really, falling back on such an argument (depreciation) is a crutch, b/c German lux brands are always among the leaders and yet, their buyers (or more like lessees) don't care.
On top of that, the ILX is a regular on CR's list of Least Satisfying Cars.
The ILX has actually been the least satisfactory model according to owners.
The RLX had the worst 3-yr depreciation for lux models $80k or less.
Note, the RLX did worse than the prior gen Kia K900, which lost additional value due to being replaced by the new gen model.
And really, falling back on such an argument (depreciation) is a crutch, b/c German lux brands are always among the leaders and yet, their buyers (or more like lessees) don't care.
On top of that, the ILX is a regular on CR's list of Least Satisfying Cars.
The ILX has actually been the least satisfactory model according to owners.
I can find 10 times BMW 5 series that has depreciated more than RLX. so your list of depreciation is worthless. Please put lists that has nothing to do with reality.
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd...927434948.html
2016 BMW 535i MSport Prem Nav Tech Conv DAP Cam White MINT #4118 - $24900
Used Cars - 2016 BMW 5 Series
2016 BMW 5 Series - $23,997
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/ctd...929026326.html
2018 BMW 5 Series 540i - $40981 (Seaside, CA)
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd...927874001.html
2016 BMW 5 Series 550i Sedan 4D with - $27999 (BMW 5 Series)
07-08-2019, 05:34 PM
#4712
^ You still don't get it about depreciation, do you?
The Germans traditionally depreciate more, but it doesn't matter for the buyers/lessees; as the vast majority get a new one when the lease or warranty is up.
Something like the 5 Series and E Class are far more desirable than the RLX (as just seen by the drastic difference in sales volume), much less the 7/8 Series and S Class.
Putting aside the RLX, having better a depreciation rate, overall, is not necessarily a major positive factor when it comes to the (true) luxury market, as higher priced vehicles (w/ more luxury, power and amenities) naturally lose more of their value.
For instance, the LS will lose more of its value than the ES; doesn't change the fact that the LS is more luxurious and desirable model (the LS hybrid is actually one of the worst when it comes to depreciation).
Acura more competes w/ the pricing of the FWD Lexus models, FWD Infiniti models, Volvo and Buick.
On that basis, Acura better be able to sell more sedans than Genesis (considering the price-points).
Range of trim prices.
ILX - $26-$31.5k
TLX - $33-46k
RLX - $55-$62k
G70 - $35-52k
G80 - $42-59.5k
G90 - $69.4-76.4k
Despite being based on a FWD compact chassis, the ILX isn't categorized w/ the compact/entry-level segment (3 Series, C Class, etc.), but w/ the sub-entry segment (CLA, A3, etc.).
The G70 doesn't just start and end higher (much higher) than for the ILX, but also starts and ends higher than the TLX.
And despite the significantly higher prices, the diff. in sales isn't nearly as great as you think.
For the 1st 6 months, Acura sold 13.950 sedans.
Genesis sold 10,008.
And in addition to the significantly higher price-points, Genesis sales were inhibited for much of the year w/ its dealership network still being in flux.
It wasn't 'til around April that most of the large pop. states had cleared the licensing issue for Genesis, so would have been closer if the Genesis dealer network had largely been in place and operational for the full first half of the year.
The same pricing discrepancy will apply to the Genesis and Acura CUVs.
The Germans traditionally depreciate more, but it doesn't matter for the buyers/lessees; as the vast majority get a new one when the lease or warranty is up.
Something like the 5 Series and E Class are far more desirable than the RLX (as just seen by the drastic difference in sales volume), much less the 7/8 Series and S Class.
Putting aside the RLX, having better a depreciation rate, overall, is not necessarily a major positive factor when it comes to the (true) luxury market, as higher priced vehicles (w/ more luxury, power and amenities) naturally lose more of their value.
For instance, the LS will lose more of its value than the ES; doesn't change the fact that the LS is more luxurious and desirable model (the LS hybrid is actually one of the worst when it comes to depreciation).
Acura more competes w/ the pricing of the FWD Lexus models, FWD Infiniti models, Volvo and Buick.
On that basis, Acura better be able to sell more sedans than Genesis (considering the price-points).
Range of trim prices.
ILX - $26-$31.5k
TLX - $33-46k
RLX - $55-$62k
G70 - $35-52k
G80 - $42-59.5k
G90 - $69.4-76.4k
Despite being based on a FWD compact chassis, the ILX isn't categorized w/ the compact/entry-level segment (3 Series, C Class, etc.), but w/ the sub-entry segment (CLA, A3, etc.).
The G70 doesn't just start and end higher (much higher) than for the ILX, but also starts and ends higher than the TLX.
And despite the significantly higher prices, the diff. in sales isn't nearly as great as you think.
For the 1st 6 months, Acura sold 13.950 sedans.
Genesis sold 10,008.
And in addition to the significantly higher price-points, Genesis sales were inhibited for much of the year w/ its dealership network still being in flux.
It wasn't 'til around April that most of the large pop. states had cleared the licensing issue for Genesis, so would have been closer if the Genesis dealer network had largely been in place and operational for the full first half of the year.
The same pricing discrepancy will apply to the Genesis and Acura CUVs.
Last edited by YEH; 07-08-2019 at 05:40 PM.
07-08-2019, 05:44 PM
#4713
ILX is built on old civic platform, RLX is old Accord. TLX is old engines no turbo or hybrid.
and if new brand RWD with free maintiance cannot compete with them. than whats left.
Genesis has home delivery option.
and if new brand RWD with free maintiance cannot compete with them. than whats left.
Genesis has home delivery option.
That's the problem w/ basing your premium brand on the same architecture as your mainstream brand.
The mainstream brand shouldn't be getting the newer/better platform first, but ROI dictates that (the same thing applies to Lexus and Infiniti - as the Camry got the TNGA underpinning before the ES, and likewise, the Highlander is getting it before the RX).
Why doesn't Honda invest more $$ to update and provide more powertrain options for Acura?
Not a good ROI, as sales are pretty much limited to the US.
The same thing applies to Toyota being slow to invest in its RWD sedans, if not outright outsourcing (w/ the rumor that Toyota may use Mazda's upcoming platform and I6 engine for a no. of Lexus models).
Lexus' RWD sedans never really sold well in Japan and US sales are shrinking due to more and better competition.
Hence, the outlook for ROI not being great.
Hyundai, however, is continuing to invest in Genesis and its RWD architecture b/c it has base of sales where such continued investment is warranted.
Like I had stated above, Genesis is on track to sell nearly 25k of the G90 worldwide (and that's even w/ the facelifted version having been delayed for the US market).
That's not too far off of the total no. of sedans that Acura will sell in the US for the year.
And that's not counting the total no. of G80 and K9/K900 sales which use the same platform and mechanicals (the K9 will sell around 10k units in Korea).
Going forward, the new platform underpinning the next G80 will not only be shared w/ the next G90 and K9/K900, but the GV80 as well (not to mention, a shortened version being used for the GV70 and the next G70 and Stinger).
Genesis has launched in Korea, the US, Canada, Australia, the Middle East and Russia w/ the EU/UK and China to come and countries like India and Mexico being likely.
How many countries/trading blocs sell the Acura brand?
Last edited by YEH; 07-08-2019 at 05:59 PM.
07-08-2019, 06:34 PM
#4714
it is like deutch bank. Japan keep there financials to themselves. Deutch bank spread out around the world with countery part risk.
Something like the 5 Series and E Class are far more desirable than the RLX (as just seen by the drastic difference in sales volume), much less the 7/8 Series and S Class.
Putting aside the RLX, having better a depreciation rate, overall, is not necessarily a major positive factor when it comes to the (true) luxury market, as higher priced vehicles (w/ more luxury, power and amenities) naturally lose more of their value.
For instance, the LS will lose more of its value than the ES; doesn't change the fact that the LS is more luxurious and desirable model (the LS hybrid is actually one of the worst when it comes to depreciation).
unlike 4 cylinder crap that is in BMW 5 and MB E series.
Acura more competes w/ the pricing of the FWD Lexus models, FWD Infiniti models, Volvo and Buick.
0-60 under 5 seconds with all season tires. car is nearly 58 inch tall.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...d-test-review/
Zero to 60 mph: 4.9 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.1 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 25.7 sec
On that basis, Acura better be able to sell more sedans than Genesis (considering the price-points).
Range of trim prices.
ILX - $26-$31.5k
TLX - $33-46k
RLX - $55-$62k
G70 - $35-52k
G80 - $42-59.5k
G90 - $69.4-76.4k
Despite being based on a FWD compact chassis, the ILX isn't categorized w/ the compact/entry-level segment (3 Series, C Class, etc.), but w/ the sub-entry segment (CLA, A3, etc.).
The G70 doesn't just start and end higher (much higher) than for the ILX, but also starts and ends higher than the TLX.
And despite the significantly higher prices, the diff. in sales isn't nearly as great as you think.
For the 1st 6 months, Acura sold 13.950 sedans.
Genesis sold 10,008.
Genesis sold 10,008.
it is 40% more.
And in addition to the significantly higher price-points, Genesis sales were inhibited for much of the year w/ its dealership network still being in flux.
It wasn't 'til around April that most of the large pop. states had cleared the licensing issue for Genesis, so would have been closer if the Genesis dealer network had largely been in place and operational for the full first half of the year.
The same pricing discrepancy will apply to the Genesis and Acura CUVs.
The same pricing discrepancy will apply to the Genesis and Acura CUVs.
07-08-2019, 06:54 PM
#4715
Team Owner
oh how i missed the 0-60 times and all season tires.... now we have added the height into the equation.. 
someone needs to tell him that BMW and Mercedes still sell V8s.. and they will beat the shit out of Toyota's V8.
someone needs to tell him that BMW and Mercedes still sell V8s.. and they will beat the shit out of Toyota's V8.
Are you sure about it. old LS was V8 like lexus LX and GX. Lexus is leader in V8.
unlike 4 cylinder crap that is in BMW 5 and MB E series.
unlike 4 cylinder crap that is in BMW 5 and MB E series.
07-09-2019, 12:11 AM
#4716
^ And not only that, but V10's and V12's.
A big part of the reason why Lexus' RWD sedans sales have fallen sharply is b/c Toyota has not only lengthened life-cycles (the 10-11 year life-cycle for the LS 460 was ridiculous), but b/c Toyota failed to updates the powertrains in a timely manner (whereas the Germans kept ramping up the power and performance).
The LS 460 spent its 10+ yrs w/ the same 4.6 V8 putting out 380 HP (360 for sedans equipped w/ AWD).
Hyundai, otoh, went thru the trouble and expense increasing power by boosting displacement of its Tau V8 from 4.6L to 5.0L, and also added a TTV6 before Toyota.
Not that having more power/performance really mattered to Lexus buyers.
The IS250 w/ that embarrassingly anemic V6 (204 HP) made up a whopping 80% of IS sales (despite even CR crapping on it).
And when Toyota finally replaced the 2.5L V6 w/ a turbo-4, an underpowered on at that 241 HP; but hey, less boost improves reliability.
The new 2.5T for Genesis is going to put out over 300 HP.
The new turbo-4 may actually improve take rates for the 4-cylinder.
For the Stinger, the take rates btwn the T4 and T6 is about 50-50 (significantly higher take rate for the top engine than for Lexus), so probably see a similar percentages for the G70.
Toyota eff'd up sales of its RWD sedans by being too stingy and not investing quickly enough in new platforms and powertrains.
In this day and age of the SUV/CUV/pick-up, don't expect the LS to sell in the 20k range (much less over 30k, which it did at its height), but the current LS is on track to sell a little over 5k in only its 2nd yr on the market.
And like I had stated, the LS doesn't really sell in Japan.
A big part of the reason why Lexus' RWD sedans sales have fallen sharply is b/c Toyota has not only lengthened life-cycles (the 10-11 year life-cycle for the LS 460 was ridiculous), but b/c Toyota failed to updates the powertrains in a timely manner (whereas the Germans kept ramping up the power and performance).
The LS 460 spent its 10+ yrs w/ the same 4.6 V8 putting out 380 HP (360 for sedans equipped w/ AWD).
Hyundai, otoh, went thru the trouble and expense increasing power by boosting displacement of its Tau V8 from 4.6L to 5.0L, and also added a TTV6 before Toyota.
Not that having more power/performance really mattered to Lexus buyers.
The IS250 w/ that embarrassingly anemic V6 (204 HP) made up a whopping 80% of IS sales (despite even CR crapping on it).
And when Toyota finally replaced the 2.5L V6 w/ a turbo-4, an underpowered on at that 241 HP; but hey, less boost improves reliability.
The new 2.5T for Genesis is going to put out over 300 HP.
The new turbo-4 may actually improve take rates for the 4-cylinder.
For the Stinger, the take rates btwn the T4 and T6 is about 50-50 (significantly higher take rate for the top engine than for Lexus), so probably see a similar percentages for the G70.
Toyota eff'd up sales of its RWD sedans by being too stingy and not investing quickly enough in new platforms and powertrains.
In this day and age of the SUV/CUV/pick-up, don't expect the LS to sell in the 20k range (much less over 30k, which it did at its height), but the current LS is on track to sell a little over 5k in only its 2nd yr on the market.
And like I had stated, the LS doesn't really sell in Japan.
07-09-2019, 12:43 AM
#4717
I am glad that you finally admitted. that German cars are POS (and there Korean copy cats with former Germanic leadership) in build quality and maintaince. otherwise why depreciate and create subsidize leases.
And 2 of the 3 are doing better than Acura when it comes to reliability.
CR 2018 Reliability Rankings
7. Audi
8. BMW
13. Acura
(15. Honda)
17. MB
2019 JD Power VDS
7. BMW
8. Audi
13. MB
(18. Honda)
26. Acura
Actually a pretty decent showing by the Germans (better than Acura in most cases), but doesn't matter so much to high-end lux buyers.
Land Rover is perpetually at the bottom of such rankings and yet, the top 1% can't get enough of Range Rovers.
it is like deutch bank. Japan keep there financials to themselves. Deutch bank spread out around the world with countery part risk.
The G70 has a $3k lease rebate for its upper trims and the G70 is more expensive to begin w/.
Even w/ generous lease rates, the Germans have had among the highest margins in the industry (for a good part of the past decade, BMW has the best margins).
they are not desirable they just get easy leases. we have to see after deuch bank.
its a positive factor. no need to subside it.
$9,100 in incentives on the top trims of the TLX is a big chunk of $$.
Acura is super handling AWD. that embarsses AWD and RWD competition even with all season tire.
0-60 under 5 seconds with all season tires. car is nearly 58 inch tall.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...d-test-review/
Zero to 60 mph: 4.9 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.1 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 25.7 sec
0-60 under 5 seconds with all season tires. car is nearly 58 inch tall.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...d-test-review/
Zero to 60 mph: 4.9 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.1 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 25.7 sec
LMAO!
Please, Acura is not even in the discussion when it comes to performance in the lux market.
AMG, M and RS trounce whatever Acura (or for that matter, presently, Genesis) has to offer.
these are not transaction prices. otherwise used Genesis and Acura sedan will not have so close pricing.
In comparison, $3k lease rebate for the top trims of the G70 (which is more expensive to begin w/).
Add to that, higher take rate for the V6.
The Kia Stinger has a higher ATP than the TLX.
ILX is much smaller vehicle. next iteration of sedans will be bigger in size.
It does not mean it sell for this prices.
The G70 has much less in incentives than the TLX.
it is great when you think competing against old line up with no turbo engines.
And Genesis will be debuting new engines (new 2.5T and 3.5T) w/ the new G80.
it is 40% more.
those significantly higher price points are on paper.
it is money losing business. Honda SUVs are already more expensive than Kia/Hyundai SUVs.
As for Honda, the price range for the Pilot is from $31.5k to $48k.
Which is right in line w/ the price range for the Palisade - $31.5k to $45.5k.
The difference being, more buyers likely to be purchasing the higher trims of the Palisade compared to the Pilot.
In numerous reviews, there have been comments saying mind as well get the top spec Palisade over the MDX as it is that nice (the Pilot's interior, otoh, looks cheap and outdated).
I also sat in another Palisade with similar burgundy leather seating and a darker gray-colored dash with metallic technical-finish trim, and it likewise looked and felt properly rich. (If my tester were equipped with the optional 12.25-inch all-digital cluster, it could've passed muster as a Genesis-branded rival for the Acura MDX and Buick Enclave -- if not beyond.)
Don't think that that's ever happened to the Pilot.
Last edited by YEH; 07-09-2019 at 12:53 AM.
07-09-2019, 01:15 AM
#4718
Japan will become deutch bank version if it support unreliable and maintaince crap like Germanic V8 or turbo vehicle with discounts , subsidized leases or free maintaince.
Korea is just copy cat of German but Korea is a lot poor than Germany to replicate this fail industrial strategy.
Toyota is world leader in gasoline V8 engines.
when Acura was launched in 1986. it had robust dealer network. your bargain basement Genesis cannot afford dealership. only Acura can afford to develop NSX.
Korea is just copy cat of German but Korea is a lot poor than Germany to replicate this fail industrial strategy.
Toyota is world leader in gasoline V8 engines.
when Acura was launched in 1986. it had robust dealer network. your bargain basement Genesis cannot afford dealership. only Acura can afford to develop NSX.
07-09-2019, 01:30 AM
#4719
The Germans absolutely crush tarted up Hondas when it comes to performance, handling and most importantly, luxury (things that higher-end lux buyers care about).
And 2 of the 3 are doing better than Acura when it comes to reliability.
CR 2018 Reliability Rankings
7. Audi
8. BMW
13. Acura
(15. Honda)
17. MB
2019 JD Power VDS
7. BMW
8. Audi
13. MB
(18. Honda)
26. Acura
Actually a pretty decent showing by the Germans (better than Acura in most cases), but doesn't matter so much to high-end lux buyers.
Land Rover is perpetually at the bottom of such rankings and yet, the top 1% can't get enough of Range Rovers.
The TLX has $9,100 in incentives for the upper trims.
The G70 has a $3k lease rebate for its upper trims and the G70 is more expensive to begin w/.
Even w/ generous lease rates, the Germans have had among the highest margins in the industry (for a good part of the past decade, BMW has the best margins).
Yeah, that's why BMW and MB sell as many (if not more) M and AMG models as Acura does for its entire lineup.
Did you already forget the posts about the level of incentive spending on the RLX? (And that was some years ago.)
$9,100 in incentives on the top trims of the TLX is a big chunk of $$.
LMAO!
Please, Acura is not even in the discussion when it comes to performance in the lux market.
AMG, M and RS trounce whatever Acura (or for that matter, presently, Genesis) has to offer.
Like I had stated, $9,100 in incentives for the top trims of the TLX.
In comparison, $3k lease rebate for the top trims of the G70 (which is more expensive to begin w/).
Add to that, higher take rate for the V6.
The Kia Stinger has a higher ATP than the TLX.
It'll be a bit larger (size of the current Civic), but not going to see a significant increase in price.
You're correct for once.
The G70 has much less in incentives than the TLX.
Again, who's fault is that.
And Genesis will be debuting new engines (new 2.5T and 3.5T) w/ the new G80.
Which isn't that much when you factor in (1) significantly higher price-points for Genesis) and (2) sales for Genesis having been artificially limited due to the dealer network situation.
It's in transactions as well (level of incentive spending and take rate for higher trims).
Not really, as the Genesis CUVs will share the same platforms and powertrains as the sedans. not to mention RWD Kia models.
As for Honda, the price range for the Pilot is from $31.5k to $48k.
Which is right in line w/ the price range for the Palisade - $31.5k to $45.5k.
The difference being, more buyers likely to be purchasing the higher trims of the Palisade compared to the Pilot.
In numerous reviews, there have been comments saying mind as well get the top spec Palisade over the MDX as it is that nice (the Pilot's interior, otoh, looks cheap and outdated).
Kia had to stop taking orders for the top spec Telluride as there's a 5-6 month wait.
Don't think that that's ever happened to the Pilot.
And 2 of the 3 are doing better than Acura when it comes to reliability.
CR 2018 Reliability Rankings
7. Audi
8. BMW
13. Acura
(15. Honda)
17. MB
2019 JD Power VDS
7. BMW
8. Audi
13. MB
(18. Honda)
26. Acura
Actually a pretty decent showing by the Germans (better than Acura in most cases), but doesn't matter so much to high-end lux buyers.
Land Rover is perpetually at the bottom of such rankings and yet, the top 1% can't get enough of Range Rovers.
The TLX has $9,100 in incentives for the upper trims.
The G70 has a $3k lease rebate for its upper trims and the G70 is more expensive to begin w/.
Even w/ generous lease rates, the Germans have had among the highest margins in the industry (for a good part of the past decade, BMW has the best margins).
Yeah, that's why BMW and MB sell as many (if not more) M and AMG models as Acura does for its entire lineup.
Did you already forget the posts about the level of incentive spending on the RLX? (And that was some years ago.)
$9,100 in incentives on the top trims of the TLX is a big chunk of $$.
LMAO!
Please, Acura is not even in the discussion when it comes to performance in the lux market.
AMG, M and RS trounce whatever Acura (or for that matter, presently, Genesis) has to offer.
Like I had stated, $9,100 in incentives for the top trims of the TLX.
In comparison, $3k lease rebate for the top trims of the G70 (which is more expensive to begin w/).
Add to that, higher take rate for the V6.
The Kia Stinger has a higher ATP than the TLX.
It'll be a bit larger (size of the current Civic), but not going to see a significant increase in price.
You're correct for once.
The G70 has much less in incentives than the TLX.
Again, who's fault is that.
And Genesis will be debuting new engines (new 2.5T and 3.5T) w/ the new G80.
Which isn't that much when you factor in (1) significantly higher price-points for Genesis) and (2) sales for Genesis having been artificially limited due to the dealer network situation.
It's in transactions as well (level of incentive spending and take rate for higher trims).
Not really, as the Genesis CUVs will share the same platforms and powertrains as the sedans. not to mention RWD Kia models.
As for Honda, the price range for the Pilot is from $31.5k to $48k.
Which is right in line w/ the price range for the Palisade - $31.5k to $45.5k.
The difference being, more buyers likely to be purchasing the higher trims of the Palisade compared to the Pilot.
In numerous reviews, there have been comments saying mind as well get the top spec Palisade over the MDX as it is that nice (the Pilot's interior, otoh, looks cheap and outdated).
Kia had to stop taking orders for the top spec Telluride as there's a 5-6 month wait.
Don't think that that's ever happened to the Pilot.
Honda/Acura does not need 10 year warranties. it is for selling unreliable brands like H/K group.
Kia has six month wait for Telluride. you will have to eat those words just like Korean factories in China or lack of factories in US.
have you ever made a single statement that has proven true.
these are not even grippy tires.
07-09-2019, 08:40 AM
#4720
Moderator
