jwaters943

The last I heard the new '05 RL was 6 months to a year away and I thought it might be "fun" to start a speculation thread. Of course, nothing is really known for sure at this point, but using the TL/TSX/MDX as indicators of what is to come here are my best guesses on the next RL.....

-3.5 liter V6 (taken from the MDX) w/ 300hp & 275lb-ft of torque.
-AWD (modified VTM-4 from MDX)
-6 speed automatic w/ SportShift
-Exterior width to similart to the TL, but 1-3" taller & 6-8" longer
-DVD Audio (much like in the TL but w/ upgraded speakers/subwoofer/amplifier)
-Auto leveling Bi-Xenons
-Power fold side mirrors
-Heated, power adjustable tilt and telescoping steering wheel
-Heated and ventilated front seats
-Adjustable suspension (Comfort, Normal & Sport)
-17" wheels/tires w/ 18" optional
-LED exterior brake/turn signal lighting
-Available DVD based NAV w/ voice controls and 8" screen (not significantly different from TSX/MDX/TL)
-Real wood trim
-Base pricing around $48-50k U.S. dollars/$50-52k for NAV model

For some reason I don't see IMA on the RL. I think Acura is taking their time and making sure they get it "just right". My gut feeling just tells me that we'll see IMA first on the NSX, but at this point there is no way to base this on anything factual.

So, what do you all think?

RJC RSX

i agree that the RL probably won't come out with IMA right away, but I'm guessing a 3.8L engine

EmuMessenger

Throw in a smart key system and some dual exhaust and I'd entertain owning this vehicle!

d-rock

the RL would be the perfect car to introduce the smart key system in a acura.

Raheel

I dont think they would give the RL a 6 Speed Auto, probably 5 SPeed, they aren't trying to make it a Sports car.

jwaters943

Many new luxury cars are coming out with 6 speed autos, heck Mercedes Benz is planning a 7 speed auto. While I'm not positive Acura will produce one it is IMHO very likely as the RL is rumored to be the highest powered vehicle Acura has produced and therefore will require a transmission that can handle that power. If they find it necessary to develop a new transmission, why spend the money to develop one that is not modern and up to date? If they make it a 6 speed auto they know they can reuse it well into the future on other Honda/Acura cars. In terms of transmissions Acura was one of the first automakers to make Auto/Manuals (SportShift) standard equipment so they are quite progressive in this area. A 6 speed auto should also increase performance and fuel economy slightly (at least on the highway), and we know how Honda/Acura feels about fuel economy.

LeeLee

I would also add the following:

* Power reclining rear seats.
* Power 2-way adjustable headrests.
* Power lumbar support.
* Massager built into passenger seats.
* Power door closers for front doors.
* Power trunk open/closer.
* Smart card key system.
* REAL WOOD!!!
* More cow than ever.

phile

The current RL uses real wood. In fact, it's the only Acura that does.

jwaters943

Are these things you would like to see or you think we will see on the next RL?

Junkster

I don't know about that though. It seems like the trend in Acura now is to build more sport-oriented sedans. And with such a large displacement engine with 300+ HP, we actually could be looking at a 6 speed.

But then again, what do I know? We just have to wait and see on more rumors on this RL.

Junkster, who hopes the RL looks more 'luxury' then the TL.

BbPhaeton

- From the spy picture, it looks like the 2005 RL will have 2004 MDX/S2000 like taillights (ie. Clear cover with circular lamps inside).

- Also, from the detnews article, the new RL will incorporate a structural brace higher on the hood for safety. Read vtec.net for the link.

- I agree that it looks like the new RL will be around 193 inches in length, or like the "old/second generation" TL. And it will compete with mid size E-Class, 5 Series, etc. instead of the S-Class, 7 Series, etc.

princed

With Lexus set to introduce a V8 hybrid late next year as a 2005 model, Acura really needs to put a potent V6 w/ IMA on the 05 RL in order for the car to stand out. AWD is going to be a necessity, as both the upcoming Lexus G-series and Infiniti M will most likely have them (as an option, at least).

The 05 Japanese sedans in the 45-60k price range are going to be truly exciting. I can't wait until the NYIAS in April...

LeeLee

It's things that I'd like to see, with a high degree of likelihood that we will see if the RL will be priced at $45K to $50K. Here is my reasoning:

#1, without these features, there will not be many things added above the TL to justify what will be a $12K+ price hike.

#2, these are relatively cheap features to implement but will add greatly to the bragging list of luxury features of the car.

#3, Lexus, BMW, MB has these features

#4, some of these features already exist in Honda offerings in Japan.

Stevens24

300 Hp v-6 with 2 50 hp IMA engines computer controlled all wheel drive. Bluetooth ,Dvd audio and NAV standard. 18" wheels. 192 inches competing with the 540 BMW.

fsttyms

i would like to see a V8 i could care less about the other features well awd too. but the V8 would be the big deciding point for me. if it did i would probably get one. other wise ill probably have to look at the ls430 or what ever it will be in 2 years

ClutchPerformer

Congrats on your new Lexus.

1SICKLEX

Gebbeth

There will be no IMA in the RL. When that happens, there will be a lot of moaning and groaning, and the dealers on this board will start huffing and puffing and saying that Acura is not this type of company or that type of company and that they are doing just fine.

Like a broken record....

Except that Honda/Acura may be the company that is broken.

I don't see anything exciting coming out of Honda/Acura for some time.

Management has to stock complaining about costs of developing this that and the other, and just do it and get it out to the consumers. Things are getting any cheaper, so might as well start now.

justinjsw

Check yourself...you are the one starting to sound like a broken record.

dom

Don't be so sure. There has to be some reason the new RL was'nt at the Tokyo show. I'm guessing it will make alot of noise in January at Detroit.

Raheel

All those motors for everything power, will eventually give up, and make u go to the dealer... It just be another luxury car with MANY MANY Features that have problems and require often going to the dealer.

fsttyms

the question is why wouldnt honda build cars/suv's with a v8 in them? they already have a v8. its the perfect size v8. they have it in the IRL(indy racing league), small displacement 3.8-4.0 liter perfect size for a RL, NSX, MDX?
i wouldnt put a single thing past honda, they dont let any thing out of the bag until they want it. every thing is just speculation till they release info (which is usually 1-2 months)before it actually comes out to the showroom

acuraman_RENAMED

I agree totally. Yeah, I was disappointed when the '05 RL didn't debut at the Tokyo Auto Show but it also makes me wonder what Acura is actually doing. Based on the feedback Acura is getting on the TSX and TL, I think that they want to make sure they package the RL just right. This is not going to be car that pays the light bill every month (i.e. the TL), so Acura can take the extra time to make this car special.

People with the means to spend 50K on a car should feel they are getting something extraordinary. With the home runs Acura has hit this year already, I don't see Acura disappointing these customers at all...

Habiib

I predict that it will come fully loaded(including Nav), IMA, and handling that will best the 5 series, all at a competitive price (just like the TSX/TL).


Off topic: When the next RL goes on sale, will it be in the same class as the Nissan Fuga ( Infiniti M45 )????

justinjsw

The 05RL goes on sale officially Aug 04

EmuMessenger

Lexus offers many of these features and is one of the most relliable vehicles made.

BuddySol

If any of you read over on TOV, you will find an article from the WSJ with a quote saying, "Honda Chief Executive Takeo Fukui says that the company is aware of the criticisms and that the new version of the company's flagship RL sedan, due out next year, won't use front-wheel drive -- though he won't say whether the car will be all-wheel drive." So, out of the box it will be anything but FWD, instead of starting out FWD with a later option for AWD or something.

dom

Just finished reading that at TOV as well. I was actually going to start a new thread on this subject but then remembered this thread.

This is great news. A Honda exec admitting to hearing the crictisim, its about time. I think its almost guaranteed it will be AWD probly using IMA as I doubt Honda would have a RWD platform ready and they've said no RWD for any of their sedans.

Raheel

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=168212

Bigbird_RENAMED

I have been reading this thread trying to guess but haven't been able to and have to ask... what is IMA

jwaters943

Integrated Motor Assist.
(Electric power)

princed

IMA = Integrated Motor Assist and refers to an AWD layout of Honda vehicles where a traditional fuel-burning engine drives the front wheels and one or more electric motors power the rear wheels. The current theory is that the new RL will have a 3.5L or larger displacement V6 making at least 250hp (and probably more) with an electric motor for each of the rear wheels adding an additional 50hp x 2. If we're lucky, the TL will also have Honda's Variable Cylinder Management (VCM) which will allow three of the six cylinders to shut off when power needs are low. I believe the VCM is very low latency, so the engine is able to "wake up" almost instantaneously when more power is needed.

The upcoming Lexus GS is rumored to be a hybrid as well (with a V8!), and is scheduled for release soon after the introduction of the new RL. Hopefully we'll se both in New York in April...

Bigbird_RENAMED

thanks for the explanation

kenbiddulph

I don't see IMA being standard, rather it will come out a year or two afterwards and even then as optional.

Most likely a 5 speed automatic, Honda has been working on a 6 speed automatic that is far more simple than a traditional autobox with planetary gears. I read about it on vtec.net about a year ago or two ago.

The RL will continue to use real wood, just like the previous RL and LS/GS Legends.

EmuMessenger

That's pretty big news, eh?

kenbiddulph

I heard that a while ago too, I've been pessimistic about the new RL lately, I guess I should have more faith in Honda It is good news that it won't be a FWD car Most likely it will be AWD and IMA would fit in perfectly (Dualnote concept anyone?)

biker

Electric motors on the rear wheels would make the most sense since Honda then could keep a fairly cheap and easy FWD platform for the RL/Legend and tack on the electric sutff in the rear of the car. I'm not sure if you could call that a real AWD car - it's more of a hybrid. Of course the real issue is how Honda manages to keep the electric motors in the back propel the car in unison with the engine up front since I assume there will be no mechnical linkage between the two propulsion systems (software alone will control the rear wheels and the front engine/wheels via DBW).
I'm not sure how much better this is than a real AWD in terms of performance. I mean you take the same or worse hit in terms of complexity and weight. Besides the weight/bulk added by the batteries then there's the bulk of the electric motors that probably take away from the size of the trunk (like the Civic Hybrid). But who knows with all that extra weight in the back you might end up with a 50/50 weight balance in a car that usually is 60/40. The electric motors will do wonders for the 0-60 times and the milage. Nothing like having instant torque at 0 RPM!
This is one car that you'd definitely might want to wait until the first year bugs are worked out.

jwaters943

If they do use IMA I wonder how they will overcome the issue of the batteries draining in sustained aggressive driving. I will admit I'm not an expert when it comes to IMA, but I have a feeling that IMA would be most effective if used as a part time system. Accelerating from a stop and through corners are the two times when having power to the rear wheels would do the most good.

I speculate we may see something like the following if IMA is implemented:

Gasoline V6 engine w/250hp driving the front wheels (naturally) with part time assistance from the electric motors rated at approx. 100hp powering the rear wheels.

100% available power from electric mortors when accelerating aggressively from a dead stop and in corners
75% when accelerating at a moderate pace
40-50% at speeds above 30-40mph
10% when on the highway
No IMA assistance when coasting on the highway at a sustained speed or when cruise control is activated, coming to a stop, and on downhill grades

biker

It seems to me that in the case of the RL it won't really be current version of IMA. The IMA in the Civic works with/is connected to the same front wheels as the gas engine. In the RL the engine in the front will be the usual FWD set up while a totally seperate electric system driving the rears (so it can claim AWD status).
The software to control the whole thing must take a long time to debug. While the ABS might not be affected much by this setup, things like VSA and traction control must be a real challange. And of course there's the issue posed in the post above on deciding on how to adjust the power added by the electric motors. Software alone could make the car a great driver or a POS.
We can assume that exterior looks and interior will be similar and nicer than the TL. Acura will have the same line up like most other luxury makes with similar looks between the models (TSX, TL, RL or small, med, large).

EuphratesTheAlmighty

LOL.


You'd definitely might?

IMA or not, it has to damn good if its gonna outdo the new TL. I wish honda would use the RL to premier an AWD platform to be used on Acura vehicles. This would make a nice distinction from the honda brand in America. Just my $0.16....