larchmont

ventil. seats -- 4 dollars
power mirrors -- 6 dollars
power st. wheel -- 1 dollar
a car that feels right: You tell me.

princed

There is a simple solution to all of these problems, and Justin alluded to it.... Offer more options!!

I could care less about adaptive cruise control myself (others would love the option of having it), but I'd like the power folding mirrors so I don't have to hold my breath each time I enter or exit the garage. When I move to warmer climates, it would be nice to have a ventilated seat option. Both a FWD trim and an AWD trim wouldn't be impossible -- it has served Audi very well w/ the A4 and it would allow for a more powerful engine with a larger displacement and greater torque. With options, you satisfy the people who want a base TL with standard entry-level luxury features, and you attract people craving more refined performance and luxury options (who are also, btw, willing to pay the inflated prices these items carry).

Everyone wins...

CK03RSX-S

Well, I guess I may have to be a little late to work on 9/22 or 9/23. Dupont Country Club is about 10 minutes from me and actually is in Wilmington, DE, so the R/D should be easy to hit.

weeeg

I borrowed my friend's 2003 LS430 for the day. I loved most aspects of the car, but the Nav system and the adaptive cruise control are the worst things ever!!! No one in the world is a bigger fan of Nav systems or adaptive cruise control than I am, but Lexus seriously needs to improve in a big way.

ADAPTIVE CRUISE CONTROL:
Go test drive a new Mercedes or Jaguar or Infiniti and play with the adaptive cruise. It is very nice and works as expected. The one in the Lexus will rear-end the car in front of you anytime the road takes even a slight bend or turn. Wow, very dangerous. Also, if the car in front of you comes to a stop (even a very slow and gradual stop) the Lexus will rear end it 100% of the time. The Lexus system just plain shuts off at anything under about 40mph. The Infiniti will bring your car to a complete stop (even though their web site says otherwise).

NAVIGATION SYSTEM:
There is no excuse for how pathetic the yellow pages database is in the Lexus system. Try to look up any of your favorite businesses/stores/food places. There's a 90% chance that it won't be listed. Also, you can't look stuff up by phone number. Also, you can't do ANY FUNCTION while the vehicle is in motion. Even your passenger can't play with the system while the vehicle is in motion! Also, you can't tell it to display all nearby restaurants sorted by distance. In fact, you can't even just tell it to display all nearby restaurants at all. Plus, they FORCE you to use the touchscreen. Honda gives you the choice of touchscreen or joystick. If you're a nut about fingerprints on your screen, then you never have to touch the Honda screen at all.

acura_driver

Thanks much for the information Justin, I'm sure we all appreciate it.

For me, it sounds like the 04TL will have most of the features that I would like. Whether I buy one or not will come down to the performance and handling. If it exceeds my CL-S I'll be happy with it.

-r

bdt980

Hey since they know about the site... If everyone keeps complaining about the options you might just get them on an 05 TL...

Gebbeth

Thanks justin for the news.

But I'm gonna have to say that for now, I'm underwhelmed. What you guys are reacting to is exactly what I have been trying to say the past few weeks: (1) Acura/Honda is keeping things a little too secret too late in the game which leads to rampant speculation and ultimately disappointment (all to save sales of the old '03TL...doesn't seem worth it), (2) if Acura's direction is to go on the entry lux on the sporting side route, then the lack of an AWD/RWD model is not sporting enough for the true enthusiast, (3) If Acura's direction, on the otherhand, is to go on the lux side, not enough in the '04TL to justify a pure lux category, (4) Acura seems to be shooting for a niche that other competitors can more easily duplicate. BTW, what is '04TL's competition now? 330i? 325i? 530? E-Class or C-Class? G35? ES330 or IS300? It's muddled, but it looks like all those cars will be it's competitors. It's gonna eat into sales.

This also does not bode well for what the RL is going to be.

EmuMessenger

No, I am not saying these options cost 7-8k, but I am implying the TL is such a good deal, if it carried over everything from 03, plus the options we already know exist, plus my little list, I would be happy to plunk down $40k for that car.

RJC RSX

I know what you said. You said you would be willing to pay 7-8K for ventilated seats, power folding mirrors, and a power steering wheel.

EmuMessenger

Correct. The car would still be a good value at $40k with those features.

larchmont

I don't know about that. It sounds like you're kind of saying it might be almost a one-of-a-kind -- which I agree -- which would be VERY HARD to duplicate, wouldn't it?

How would that affect sales? Could go either way.

RJC RSX

But ventilated seats, power folding mirrors, and a power steering wheel do NOT justify 7 or 8K.

Gebbeth

"I don't know about that. It sounds like you're kind of saying it might be almost a one-of-a-kind -- which I agree -- which would be VERY HARD to duplicate, wouldn't it?

How would that affect sales? Could go either way."

I'm saying just the opposite. It looks like the '04TL does not have anything that is going to wow anyone. Everything it has has been seen before. Also, it doesn't have what one would associate with either pure luxury or pure sport. I mean V6 at 270 is good, but everyone was talking about stepping up a notch above the competition, and 270 is not it. No AWD/RWD, again not for the sporting enthusiast. On the lux side, the only power anything seems to be the driver's seat. No other doodads that seem interesting thus far (unless justin still has some secrets....which by the way Acura, you secrecy is both annoying and useless and counterproductive at this point).

It just seems the TL is trying to be too cautious, afraid of loosing it's customer base. I understand that. But meanwhile, other car companies have made many strides beyond Acura in terms of performance, and the Europeans are stepping it up a notch with their new models on both the sport and luxury side. Take this with the news that Lexus will be offering both V-12 down to I4 engines, and here comes the word some of you guys are beginning to say....OPTIONS!!!!....other car companies are giving you OPTIONS. Sooner or later, the availability of those options from down low in the $280000 range up to the $70000 range is going to eat into Acura sales. We're seeing it already in every market except for NA for now (Nissan is the clear number two and creating some distance around the world....in Europe, arguable where sport and luxury are a premium, Honda sales are pretty weak). So NA is saving Honda for now.

I want to like the new TL. I want to see it and drive it. But the news thus far has been a little bland. Now, my hopes for really liking an Acura product and seeing them go in a direction that is really exciting rest on the RL. But again, I'm a little afraid of what I might hear.

ProZach

I agree 100%

VtecMW

Has anyone once considered that the TL is Acura's best seller? Why tamper with a formula that works? A shorter car and more aggressive styling is a radical enough move for Acura. True, the TL may be no BWM 330/530, Infiniti or Lexus GS because of its FWD layout, but it's still a great value among its competitors, which really doesn't make Acura, or the TL, a loser in the grand scheme of things. We don't have to look far for an example, being that this is a TSX board.

I'm sure Honda has not ignored the fact that many of its competitors offer RWD cars. Obviously there isn't enough there to justify a shift to a RWD platform. I think the TSX and Realtime Racing Acura Integra help to reinforce that justification. Besides, why invest the R&D to develop RWD for maybe no more than 3 models? With the TSX, Accord, TL, MDX, Pilot, Odyssey and possily RL all sharing the same platform, I'm sure Honda is not hurting for profit from sales of these cars.

No car in this price range is perfect. Expecting perfection in the $30K price range is ridiculous. Look at the G35, great power, great value, but cheap interior. BMW 330, great across the board, but questionable reliability, pricey. Audi A4 3.0, same.

The new Accord Coupe has been compared to the Mercedes C-Class and did quite well considering that it was being compared against a bona fide luxury car that is nearly double its cost. I don't think there's any reason to believe that the TL won't compare equally as well, if not better in such comparisons. Let's not forget comparisons in its own segment.

The new TL has been pegged as an enthusiasts car, so it will be different than the current TL. It will also be an evolution of the current TL. Therefore, I would be very surprised if the car is a disappointment.

We'll know soon what the new TL is all about. I think all of the speculation, wish lists, no matter how ridiculous or reasonable they may be, has a lot of people thinking the TL will be a bust. If the new TL is reasonably priced, I personally would not mind if it comes without some of the bells and whistles not seen on most other cars in its class.



BTW, ventilated seats, power steering wheel and power folding mirrors would make the TL a bust at $7-8K extra. The only place this car would be going for that price is to the discontinued lot.

VtecMW

Justin, what are your thoughts on the body kit? Did it look excessive, or does it add a nice to the touch car? Same for the spoiler?

Sept. 1 is right around the corner. Can't wait!

weeeg

What is it about the 2004 TL that makes it $7K or $8K better than a fully loaded 2004 Accord?

Skull One_RENAMED

Funny that you should ask that. I asked the same question and test drove a '03 Accord V6 (fully loaded) and then a '03 Acura TL and TL Type S yesterday.

Things I hated about the Accord compared to the TL.
Sound system.
Road noise.
Lack of power.
Lack of sport shifting for the automatic.
Passenger seat had only 2 adjustments.
Over all interior quailty was cheaper looking.

Things I hated about the TL compared to the Accord.
Navigation system.

huskerfan

I'm sure the 2004 TL will get the voice activated Nav that the Accord has. I have NAV on my 2003 TLS and it is a good system but I imagine the next generation NAV on the Accord is much better and I can't think of any reason for Acura to stick with an older more antiquated system.

Skull One_RENAMED

It has already been confirmed that the '04 TL will have a slightly better version of the '03 MDX's Nav system. One of the reasons I have a TL on order.

EmuMessenger

If you are talking about the EX-V6-Navi...

TL has a bigger engine with more horsepower
TL has a longer warranty
TL gives you a loaner car with service
Xenon headlights
Memory seats. 10 way power driver's seat
17" wheels
Rear adjustable climate control vents

I really wonder if you are talking about the EX-four cylinder model.

I cannot speak for the 04, but I have both the 03 Accord EX-V6-Navi and a TLS-Navi and the sticker price on the Accord was $28k and change. Assuming only a $400 increase on the Accord, what makes you think the new TL will be $36k to $37k?


True, but the TL would still be a steal at $38k - $40k with those options.

RJC RSX

Maybe so, but Acura would loose a lot of money on it

ViperLuke

Agreed. I for one am a performance first. Luxury second type of guy. I was hoping to see AWD with about 300 ponies. For around 40k or less. I think a lot of new buyers, such as myself, would have jumped on that car. I'll give the 04 TL a good look, but I think I'm now leaning toward the Volvo S60R, or the 400hp Caddy CTS-V. I do however think the 04 TL looks better than both of those.

Airdog

Justin - I know I speak for most of us when I say thank you for the info that you have provided and for keeping us updated as much as you can without going to far out on the limb.

Airdog

Well said!!! I could not agree more!

larchmont

People thinking the new TL was gonna be revolutionary rather than evolutionary, I think, had less to do with that stuff than with the thought that it was really gonna be a driver's car.

I mean, the current TL sort of is, depending on what you compare it to. But somehow the feeling got going that this was gonna be a lot different, and it was really gonna be. I didn't see how, for the simple reason that if it was really gonna be that much different they'd be re-naming it. I just didn't think Honda/Acura could be that stupid to make such a big mistake, which is what it would be.

Maybe it will really be, we still don't really know. No matter what Justin might have told us or what the factoids might have been, we won't know until we get our hands on it.

planman

Amen, brother. Some people are just never satisfied.

Can I go ahead and put a deposit down on my '05 RL that has 350hp, AWD, every imaginable convenience/luxury/technology doo-dad that anyone even thought would be conceivable in a car, gets 30+ mpg in town and...oh yeah...seats five comfortably but then shrinks to the size of a MINI for parking...all for $15K? That would be great...
Maybe until then I could borrow a kick-ass '04 TL...all stock?

Come on guys, dreaming is fun in concept stage but we're less than 60 days from launch. It's time to pull your heads out and appreciate the reality of this (potentially) great car.

EmuMessenger

Well put, but if the RL will definitely have ventilated seats, I may wait.

planman

Emu, I think you may need to seek professional help to explore your fixation on ventilated seats. Was there something in your childhood that makes you yearn for cool air flowing over your hind quarters?

Just kidding... As a native Texan whose father now drives an LS430 with ventilated seats, I understand completely. It's just one of those things that once you've experienced it you don't want to live without it in a hot climate.

huskerfan

I currently own a 2003 TLS (My wife's car) and it is a great car. I think the main reason that so many on this forum are getting disappointed is because the 2004 TL was advertised as a complete redesign. Other than the sheet metal, most of the major changes are to the electronics and some other items that you would expect to be upgraded because they are already on other AHM models (e.g., the upgraded NAV, Side curtain airbags, etc). The XM radio costs $10/month and I think the DVD 5.1 Audio only has a limited amount of selections at this time. (Granted, more will become available over time.) Bluetooth is fine but I have to see how much better it is than a regular hands free setup for a car. The 2003 TLS has 260hp, 232 FT/LBS torque, VSA, and a sport suspension. Since we are told the 2004 TL will have only a minor increase in HP and very little increase in torque, we can only hope it will have the same or better performance that the 2003 TLS. However, I am afraid that since there won't be a type S, the 2004 TL may be more like the base 2003 TL and not have the performance enhancements of the Type "S". Remember Acura will be marketing this car to a great many people who want an entry level LUXURY car and not necessarily to the performance addicts who frequent this forum. I hope I am wrong and am surprised because I really want a 2004 TL of my own. I don't get to drive my wife's enough.

RJC RSX

There's a 6sp for a reason you know

JeffPhx

I second that!

JeffPhx

LOL!

kurt_bradley

So 13 pages later, I finally got to the end of this thread. That took forever.

Justin - your work is greatly appreciated. I don't think that people really respect what we say sometimes, but you've got more info than me right now on this car. I hate when you're words are taken for granted. People do need to lighten up when it comes to these stupid features that they think are so important (adaptive cruise control, ventilated seats, and power tilting mirrors).

You guys need to lighten up on Justin. He and I may work for Acura dealers, but we aren't going to sit here and justify where some of the features are included or left out. We just can't do it. As for getting the other specs on the car, just wait until they lift our embargo on this on 9/1. Then we'll spill our guts. Until that time, we aren't going to risk our jobs to post up some info that people can wait a couple days to get. It's not like you can go into a dealer and check out the car yet anyway. This is turning into what the TSX sites were earlier this year. You all remember how much speculation there was back then and how much of it was worth all the worrying? When we get the official info, this can all resume. Just be patient and kind. All will be revealed in the very near future.

Just my 2 cents.

RJC RSX

9/1 or 9/4 ??

princed

I can't recall one post where someone has attacked or disrespected Justin -- in fact, I think EVERYONE greatly appreciates the incredible devotion he's shown to getting info for this community. It's just that some people are not so excited about the content of what has been revealed (which I feel is understandable, as everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion)...

And these little things do matter. I think the G35 is a nice-looking car on the outside with an okay interior, but I don't like the horrible amber lighting or the fact that the nav has no touch screen, voice-activation, or ability to adjust while driving. It's incredibly fun to drive, though. Similarly, I think the A4 3.0 is a beautiful car, inside and out, and it is also a blast to drive and has a great AWD option. Unfortunately, the navigation system is horrific. Little things mattered in my decision not to purchase either of those cars and led to me putting down a deposit on the TL. Ventilated seats may cause Emu to wait another 6 months and pay 10k more for the 05 RL.

And just because not everything said here is positive and there is a thirst for more info, it does not mean that people are personally attacking you or Justin. Unfortunately, Acura feels the need to hide the details of the car, yet there are TWO allocations given to dealers before the Sept. 1 press embargo expires. I'm sure there are people reading these forums trying to decide whether they want to get in on the 8/25 allocation. By waiting till September 1st to get info and make an informed decision, one may potentially have to wait until December to get a TL w/ the color/trim of his/her choice.

I am very impatient for the 9/1 deadline to expire, as I unfortunately don't have the leisure of waiting. I will have to rent a car while I wait for my TL, and so I am anxious to determine whether it is going to "fit" me -- I can't wait around and then find out on 10/6 that I hate the car and then wait longer to get an 04 G35 or A4. As long as the car is priced right with the acceleration "feel" of the 03 accord coupe EX v6 6mt and handling similar to the TSX, I'll be overjoyed. But I undestand the frustration some other members have voiced, and I feel that people shouldn't dismiss their concerns as "little" or "stupid," as everyone weighs these factors differently...

princed

I believe Justin originally said the site would go up during the week of 9/1. Then, after he returned from Torrance, he said the site would be up on 9/4. So, the new data is just more specific...

EmuMessenger

Nah, nothing from my childhood. It has been at or near 100 with outrageous humidity lately and I am tired of my back and legs sweating.

I was in a Saab 9-5 a few years ago and knew I needed to get this feature.

Thanks again for saying how great ventilated seats are. If I can get confirmation within the first few weeks of the TL's release, I will wait for the RL.

huskerfan

I do most of my driving in and around San Antonio. A 6sp is fine for some of you guys, but it's not for me or my wife. My point is that I have a 2003 TLS that is an 5sp automatic and I love it. I can put it in drive around town and shift it when I want to. If the 2004 5sp Auto is not performance equipped the way the 2003 TLS is, I feel I am going backwards despite the small increase in HP.

justinjsw

A couple of things...the current TL will not drive like the new TL because the platforms are different. The 03TL was based off the old Accord platform and the 04 will be based off the largest of the new Accord platforms.

What is already confirmed on the 04TL that's not on the 03...
Surround sound
Bluetooth
voice act/Nav
Projector beam Xenons
Curtain airbags
10 way power seat/driver
Dual zone air
manual transmission
LED gauges
XM radio
270HP
and a couple more things you guys don't know about yet,
just another week or so and we are there.

My calender at the time said week of 9/1 now its my understanding it will go live on 9/4.

Kurt there's no need to defend me...but thanks...everybody here is cool...it's never personal. I just like to keep the community informed that's all. I can't be correct all the time...but oh well.