Vapor Barrier?
10-21-2002, 11:56 PM
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Vapor Barrier?
Hey guys,
I developed an intermittent short in my left front (driver's) speaker. It was easy to fix (thanks to Southy's posts) - I just added some duct tape around the door frame and made sure the speaker terminals were bent up and well-insulated.
In any case, I decided that, since I had the door panel off, I would dynamat the entire door. However, to do this, I needed to remove the white plastic vapor barrier, and in the process of doing so I destroyed it.
I saw pics of Iggy's door work and I noticed that he re-attached the vapor barrier after adding Cascade (and the speaker & crossover, of course).
Do I absolutely need the vapor barrier? If so, then I'll need to order one from my Acura dealer.
Also, what type of adhesive should I use to attach it? The stuff Acura uses is pretty strong!
I developed an intermittent short in my left front (driver's) speaker. It was easy to fix (thanks to Southy's posts) - I just added some duct tape around the door frame and made sure the speaker terminals were bent up and well-insulated.
In any case, I decided that, since I had the door panel off, I would dynamat the entire door. However, to do this, I needed to remove the white plastic vapor barrier, and in the process of doing so I destroyed it.
I saw pics of Iggy's door work and I noticed that he re-attached the vapor barrier after adding Cascade (and the speaker & crossover, of course).
Do I absolutely need the vapor barrier? If so, then I'll need to order one from my Acura dealer.
Also, what type of adhesive should I use to attach it? The stuff Acura uses is pretty strong!
10-22-2002, 08:10 AM
#2
Three Wheelin'
How badly did you damge them? If it's just a rip here or there you could probably find some really strong flexible tape to patch them up. I don't know how critical it is to have the barrier in place but there definately is a certain amount of moisture that gets into the window area when it rains or you wash the car. My feeling was to keep the interior protected as well as I could.
I used a hair dryer to soften up the adhesive and even at that it took quite a while to get the barriers off.
As far as ordering new ones, I would say get some prices first then weigh it out at time. I'd bet the new ones come with adhesive allready attached, or at least it cold be purchased with the barriers.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Iggy
I used a hair dryer to soften up the adhesive and even at that it took quite a while to get the barriers off.
As far as ordering new ones, I would say get some prices first then weigh it out at time. I'd bet the new ones come with adhesive allready attached, or at least it cold be purchased with the barriers.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Iggy
10-22-2002, 08:27 AM
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OK, time to come clean...I assumed that I didn't need the vapor barrier, so I removed it by cutting it off the door frame! (Doh)
I shoulda done my research BEFORE embarking on the project, but hindsight is always 20/20, no?
Thanks for the insight, Iggy. In this part of the country we need all the protection from moisture we can get. I'll price out the vapor barrier and let y'all know.
I shoulda done my research BEFORE embarking on the project, but hindsight is always 20/20, no?
Thanks for the insight, Iggy. In this part of the country we need all the protection from moisture we can get. I'll price out the vapor barrier and let y'all know.
10-22-2002, 11:30 AM
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Guys,
Did everyone do the cap-resistor mode to the Polk dx6 or did some leave them out? I am NOT a soldering -electrician type
I will be installing mine soon and I have a nice Kicker Comp VR 12" sub already with a 350 Watt Amp. Will the highs still be TOO high with more Base from my Sub ? Without the mods to the DX6?
Basically, should I do the mods or not ...?
Thanks, Phil
Did everyone do the cap-resistor mode to the Polk dx6 or did some leave them out? I am NOT a soldering -electrician type
I will be installing mine soon and I have a nice Kicker Comp VR 12" sub already with a 350 Watt Amp. Will the highs still be TOO high with more Base from my Sub ? Without the mods to the DX6?
Basically, should I do the mods or not ...?
Thanks, Phil
10-22-2002, 12:20 PM
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BlackBeauty,
I highly recommend that you add the 3.9 ohm/5 watt resistor to all 4 Polks, and the 4.7uF/35 watt non-polarized electrolytic caps to the fronts only. Otherwise, the highs will be WAY too bright - remember that you are replacing full-range speakers with true coaxials, and Bose artificially boosts the highs via EQ in a lame attempt to make those full-range speakers sound decent.
The soldering shouldn't be a big deal - if you're not comfortable doing it yourself, you should be able to find a friend who could do it. We could even walk you through the process here!
I highly recommend that you add the 3.9 ohm/5 watt resistor to all 4 Polks, and the 4.7uF/35 watt non-polarized electrolytic caps to the fronts only. Otherwise, the highs will be WAY too bright - remember that you are replacing full-range speakers with true coaxials, and Bose artificially boosts the highs via EQ in a lame attempt to make those full-range speakers sound decent.
The soldering shouldn't be a big deal - if you're not comfortable doing it yourself, you should be able to find a friend who could do it. We could even walk you through the process here!
10-22-2002, 01:53 PM
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egilsrud,
does'nt home depot have some kind of vapor barrier plastic? maybe for home insulation and/or roofing? I'm thinking with some two sided tape, you might get a good result with much less $$. ps sorry 'bout USC whipping the dawgs last saturday
does'nt home depot have some kind of vapor barrier plastic? maybe for home insulation and/or roofing? I'm thinking with some two sided tape, you might get a good result with much less $$. ps sorry 'bout USC whipping the dawgs last saturday
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10-22-2002, 03:26 PM
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TopGum,
Thanks for the Home Depot suggestion. I decided to check w/ my local Acura dealer, and it turns out that ithe vapor barrier is only 16 bucks, adhesive included. So I went ahead and ordered it.
No worries 'bout the Huskies comment. Unfortunately, my alma mater - Purdue - is faring even worse this year. They're 3-5, but have not lost a game by more than 7 points (and that one was overtime). Go figure.
Thanks for the Home Depot suggestion. I decided to check w/ my local Acura dealer, and it turns out that ithe vapor barrier is only 16 bucks, adhesive included. So I went ahead and ordered it.
No worries 'bout the Huskies comment. Unfortunately, my alma mater - Purdue - is faring even worse this year. They're 3-5, but have not lost a game by more than 7 points (and that one was overtime). Go figure.
10-22-2002, 04:06 PM
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"local Acura dealer, and it turns out that ithe vapor barrier is only 16 bucks, adhesive included."
this has to be a mistake. it borders on reasonable $'s from a dealer!
this has to be a mistake. it borders on reasonable $'s from a dealer!
10-23-2002, 01:35 AM
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BlackBeauty,
I originally installed my POLK DX6s as COMPLETELY STOCK REPLACEMENTS... They sounded a hell of a lot nicer than the BLOSE. However, they were rather bright due to the EQ boost. Other speakers with titanium tweeters would tend to be even brighter.
I lived with them STOCK for over a month... but just wasn't quite happy with the sound. They were just too sibilant. Cymbals had that "pssst, pssst" sound instead of the proper "ting, ting". Everything in the extreme high frequency range just sounded too over emphasized. The stock treble control was insufficient to tame them... when I turned the treble control down enough to get rid of the "hiss", the midrange vocals were also cut to the point of having a hollow sound. So I either had too much highs or not enough midrange... Thus the need for the mod that I designed
STILL, THE STOCK POLKS SOUNDED BETTER THAN THE BLOSE... and some people installed them without any mods soon after I mentioned them on this board. Some people seemed to think that the highs were OK... BUT, most agreed that they were too bright. Those who have followed my mods have agreed that things sound REALLY nice now. (relatively speaking, considering the money and effort involved)
SO, I DO HIGHLY RECOMMEND THE MODS in order to have a fairly flat response. ESPECIALLY since you are adding another quality component in the way of a COMPLETE subwoofer upgrade. YOU WOULD BE REALLY PLEASED with the overall sound at that point, I believe. Without the mods, you would REALLY be deficient in the midrange... or else be listening to sibilant sound with heavy bass. DON'T EXPECT A SUBWOOFER TO OVERRIDE SIBILANCE... the only way that's going to happen is if the bass is turned up so loud that all you hear is thump, bump, thump. You want a WELL balanced SOUND.
However, I DID have my POLKS installed for over a month before I couldn't take it any longer and came up with the mods. SO if you REALLY don't have anyone who could solder the mods for you, you could try them straight out of the box, and "hear" what you think. You'll probably like them at first, (because anything is an improvement over the Blose) but over time, you'll start to realize that they need to be tamed down. Then you can do the mods when you're convinced that they are really needed.
YOU WILL GAIN CLARITY...
YOU WILL GAIN MIDRANGE...
YOU WILL LOSE THAT "SSSSSSS" EDGE ON EVERYTHING,
WHILE STILL MAINTAINING CRISPNESS...
by doing the mods.
If you do put the POLKS in stock... listen for these elements and DON'T Settle for a sound that can be remidied. If you find yourself CONSTANTLY adjusting the treble control trying to find the right compromise... then you need to do the mod.
After that... "JUST SET IT, AND FORGET IT!" LOL
Good luck! You're well on your way to a much improved system!
Southbound
I originally installed my POLK DX6s as COMPLETELY STOCK REPLACEMENTS... They sounded a hell of a lot nicer than the BLOSE. However, they were rather bright due to the EQ boost. Other speakers with titanium tweeters would tend to be even brighter.
I lived with them STOCK for over a month... but just wasn't quite happy with the sound. They were just too sibilant. Cymbals had that "pssst, pssst" sound instead of the proper "ting, ting". Everything in the extreme high frequency range just sounded too over emphasized. The stock treble control was insufficient to tame them... when I turned the treble control down enough to get rid of the "hiss", the midrange vocals were also cut to the point of having a hollow sound. So I either had too much highs or not enough midrange... Thus the need for the mod that I designed
STILL, THE STOCK POLKS SOUNDED BETTER THAN THE BLOSE... and some people installed them without any mods soon after I mentioned them on this board. Some people seemed to think that the highs were OK... BUT, most agreed that they were too bright. Those who have followed my mods have agreed that things sound REALLY nice now. (relatively speaking, considering the money and effort involved)
SO, I DO HIGHLY RECOMMEND THE MODS in order to have a fairly flat response. ESPECIALLY since you are adding another quality component in the way of a COMPLETE subwoofer upgrade. YOU WOULD BE REALLY PLEASED with the overall sound at that point, I believe. Without the mods, you would REALLY be deficient in the midrange... or else be listening to sibilant sound with heavy bass. DON'T EXPECT A SUBWOOFER TO OVERRIDE SIBILANCE... the only way that's going to happen is if the bass is turned up so loud that all you hear is thump, bump, thump. You want a WELL balanced SOUND.
However, I DID have my POLKS installed for over a month before I couldn't take it any longer and came up with the mods. SO if you REALLY don't have anyone who could solder the mods for you, you could try them straight out of the box, and "hear" what you think. You'll probably like them at first, (because anything is an improvement over the Blose) but over time, you'll start to realize that they need to be tamed down. Then you can do the mods when you're convinced that they are really needed.
YOU WILL GAIN CLARITY...
YOU WILL GAIN MIDRANGE...
YOU WILL LOSE THAT "SSSSSSS" EDGE ON EVERYTHING,
WHILE STILL MAINTAINING CRISPNESS...
by doing the mods.
If you do put the POLKS in stock... listen for these elements and DON'T Settle for a sound that can be remidied. If you find yourself CONSTANTLY adjusting the treble control trying to find the right compromise... then you need to do the mod.
After that... "JUST SET IT, AND FORGET IT!" LOL
Good luck! You're well on your way to a much improved system!
Southbound
10-23-2002, 06:28 AM
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SouthBound,
I am purchasing the speakers AND mods. I hope to be able to follow a step by step for soldering the mods on.
I think you or Iggy have it somewhere posted?
I'm just a little intimidated I'll do something wrong, sound may suffer and won't know enough to realize I have them in wrong or soldered wrong...
Wish my Luck and Rock on ...........
Phil
I am purchasing the speakers AND mods. I hope to be able to follow a step by step for soldering the mods on.
I think you or Iggy have it somewhere posted?
I'm just a little intimidated I'll do something wrong, sound may suffer and won't know enough to realize I have them in wrong or soldered wrong...
Wish my Luck and Rock on ...........
Phil
10-24-2002, 02:41 AM
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GOOD LUCK AND ROCK ON!
Yes, the mods have been posted SEVERAL times. The first time was in a post that I started called "Polk DX6 fix"... at that point, I hadn't come up with the final values of the rolloff cap. I started out with a 10uF cap, but that was TOO MUCH rolloff. The final value of 4.7uF/35volts non polarized electrolytic seems to be a good fit. But I think I described some very detailed instructions as to how to perform the mods in that thread. If not, there were several more times that it came up as more and more TL'ers jumped on the DX6s before they have become impossible to buy.
You'll do just fine if you follow ALL of the precautions...
When you do the solder work, just make sure to place some type of material underneath the speaker terminal strip to catch any solder blobs that may fall onto the surface of the speaker cone!!!!! A thick pice of paper like kid's construction paper works just fine. OTHERWISE, ANY mistake will cause a drop of solder to fall and burn a hole in the speaker cone... THAT WOULD RUIN YOUR DAY!
ALSO BE SURE TO BEND UP and INSULATE THE SPEAKER TERMINALS AND ADD "SEVERAL" LAYERS OF DUCT TAPE OR EQUIVALENT TO THE BOTTOM THIRD EDGE OF THE DOOR FRAME CUTOUT. the speaker terminals will be VERY close to touching this bottom part of the door hole cutout. If you DON'T insulate things well, you will fall into the common trap of a short on the speaker line. This has happened to several people who have neglected this process.
Just take your time, be careful, and make sure your polarities of the wiring is also correct. This possible out of phase condition could give you a less than optimum sound without your knowledge. YOU CAN DO IT! Once you've done ONE speaker, the others will be a piece of cake...
Southbound
Yes, the mods have been posted SEVERAL times. The first time was in a post that I started called "Polk DX6 fix"... at that point, I hadn't come up with the final values of the rolloff cap. I started out with a 10uF cap, but that was TOO MUCH rolloff. The final value of 4.7uF/35volts non polarized electrolytic seems to be a good fit. But I think I described some very detailed instructions as to how to perform the mods in that thread. If not, there were several more times that it came up as more and more TL'ers jumped on the DX6s before they have become impossible to buy.
You'll do just fine if you follow ALL of the precautions...
When you do the solder work, just make sure to place some type of material underneath the speaker terminal strip to catch any solder blobs that may fall onto the surface of the speaker cone!!!!! A thick pice of paper like kid's construction paper works just fine. OTHERWISE, ANY mistake will cause a drop of solder to fall and burn a hole in the speaker cone... THAT WOULD RUIN YOUR DAY!
ALSO BE SURE TO BEND UP and INSULATE THE SPEAKER TERMINALS AND ADD "SEVERAL" LAYERS OF DUCT TAPE OR EQUIVALENT TO THE BOTTOM THIRD EDGE OF THE DOOR FRAME CUTOUT. the speaker terminals will be VERY close to touching this bottom part of the door hole cutout. If you DON'T insulate things well, you will fall into the common trap of a short on the speaker line. This has happened to several people who have neglected this process.
Just take your time, be careful, and make sure your polarities of the wiring is also correct. This possible out of phase condition could give you a less than optimum sound without your knowledge. YOU CAN DO IT! Once you've done ONE speaker, the others will be a piece of cake...
Southbound
10-24-2002, 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by Southbound
If you DON'T insulate things well, you will fall into the common trap of a short on the speaker line. This has happened to several people who have neglected this process.
[/B]
If you DON'T insulate things well, you will fall into the common trap of a short on the speaker line. This has happened to several people who have neglected this process.
[/B]
I had shorting problems develop in both front speakers. It was easy enough to discover which speaker was causing the problem - a good thump with my first on each door panel revealed the culprit.
While I'm adding duct tape to the bottom third of the door frame around the speaker, I'm taking the opportunity to add more dynamat extreme!
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