TSX audio upgrade Phase 1 done
05-22-2005, 11:41 AM
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TSX audio upgrade Phase 1 done
I just had the speakers in my '05 TSX upgraded at ElDuderino's shop this weekend with a set of his avincar speakers.
With the budget I had, and the advice i got from ElDuderino, This is my plan to upgading my audio system:
Phase 1
4 avincar 5 1/4"
2 avincar silk tweeters
2 avincar 6x9
stock amp
Sound deadening in front doors.
Phase 2
Replace stock amp with 5 channel amp (4x50 / 1x100)
Add cross overs to front seperates.
Phase 3
Replace 6x9 with 10" sub & custom sub box
Disclaimer: I am NOT an audiophile. I just know what I want to hear. I like to be surrounded by music, and i like it to be clear. My music tastes cover a very large area. From Country to Techno / Trance, top 40, etc.
My expectations: I really wanted the 6" speakers but they wouldn't fit. I'm sure we could have shoe horned them in with some modifacation to the door. This wasn't an option for me.
The first impressions were WOW. I couldn't believe that 5 1/4" speakers could sound so full, or 6x9 (I hate 6x9s) have so much bass. Granted, they don't take the place of a subwoofer, but it is defenatly an upgrade.
There was an issues with the tweeters, but it was cleared up with some capaciters. You'll have to get an explaintion from ElDude if you want to know more. For a drop in speaker replacement this is definatly the way to go.
For my tastes, the tweeters do play a little too much mids / voice. This should be able to be fixed with a real cross over. The front speakers are a bit over powering. All that was needed to do was fade to the back 1-2 ticks and it was perfect. To top it off, my Wife gave a
to the upgade, which doesn't happen to often.
A huge thanks to Elduderino and Jason (the guy who does the real work) for putting this together.
With the budget I had, and the advice i got from ElDuderino, This is my plan to upgading my audio system:
Phase 1
4 avincar 5 1/4"
2 avincar silk tweeters
2 avincar 6x9
stock amp
Sound deadening in front doors.
Phase 2
Replace stock amp with 5 channel amp (4x50 / 1x100)
Add cross overs to front seperates.
Phase 3
Replace 6x9 with 10" sub & custom sub box
Disclaimer: I am NOT an audiophile. I just know what I want to hear. I like to be surrounded by music, and i like it to be clear. My music tastes cover a very large area. From Country to Techno / Trance, top 40, etc.
My expectations: I really wanted the 6" speakers but they wouldn't fit. I'm sure we could have shoe horned them in with some modifacation to the door. This wasn't an option for me.
The first impressions were WOW. I couldn't believe that 5 1/4" speakers could sound so full, or 6x9 (I hate 6x9s) have so much bass. Granted, they don't take the place of a subwoofer, but it is defenatly an upgrade.
There was an issues with the tweeters, but it was cleared up with some capaciters. You'll have to get an explaintion from ElDude if you want to know more. For a drop in speaker replacement this is definatly the way to go.
For my tastes, the tweeters do play a little too much mids / voice. This should be able to be fixed with a real cross over. The front speakers are a bit over powering. All that was needed to do was fade to the back 1-2 ticks and it was perfect. To top it off, my Wife gave a
to the upgade, which doesn't happen to often.A huge thanks to Elduderino and Jason (the guy who does the real work) for putting this together.
05-22-2005, 03:11 PM
#2
Team Owner
The first impressions were WOW. I couldn't believe that 5 1/4" speakers could sound so full, or 6x9 (I hate 6x9s) have so much bass.
I'm not so much into volume nor do I want my TSX shaking with bass. SQ is my no. 1 goal and it seems the mod takes you quite a bit in that direction.You swapped out all four door speakers yet you feel the front speakers are overpowering? Do you mean there is not enough bass? Are the front doors overpowering the rear doors or is it that you feel the dashboard tweets carry too much volume in relation to the front doors?
How much do you think the sound deadening in the front doors contributes to the improved sound?
05-22-2005, 08:02 PM
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Actually, Justin does all the real work, and I just wave the baton : )
"Pick that up!"
Brian Doyle-Murray, Caddyshack
I was very glad that the 6x9's did as well as they did off of the OEM amp. I was confident that the 5.25's would do well.
The tweeter xover issue was this:
The OEM amp has a series capacitor on the tweeters. The OEM tweeters measure around four ohms.
We used much better tweeters, but they measure closer to 8 ohms (I think they are about 6 actually). This would have forced the first-order high-pass crossover point created from the OEM amp capacitors DOWN (and it did). When we replaced the tweeters and listened to them using ONLY the factory capacitors, the crossover point was much too low, and way too much midrange energy came out of the tweeters.
Now, I didn't want to pull the whole console apart at that time to see what the two caps inside the amp were, or to bypass them so I could install my own (it was already pretty late in the day). So we tried a quick and easy experiment. We put a 2.2 uF cap in series with the tweeter, to see how that sounded with the OEM capacitor (seriesing capacitors does not add the two values linearly, and I couldn't remember the value of the cap in the amp, so it was a bit of an experiment).
This sounded bad too, but they played only "tss tss tss" sounds. Too far the other direction. So we tried it again with a 4.7 uF cap. (Both of these were metallized polypropylene caps, Bennic, I think.)
This time it sounded pretty good. Perhaps a bit forward in the highs, but these tweeters are brand-spanking new, and I expect them to soften after 10-15 hours of use - that's pretty typical of tweeters as they break in.
So if I was set on doing it "perfectly", I would mod the amp to bypass the series xover caps, but this is a lot of work to go to for a speaker upgrade, and if you ever take them out you will want to put the amp back to stock, so I think the less-invasive way is a better solution.
As far as the voices coming through the tweeters, it's new for Kevin, and I suspect it will grow on him, unless he's become set in his ways : ) Who wants vocals down by your ankle? The sound would change somewhat with a second-order xover if it was a lot higher in xover point (what I suspect he means by a REAL xover, but some pretty expensive speakers use first-order xovers), but I don't like to put second-order xovers on OEM deck-power amps very often. So in a roundabout way I expect it to be addressed by the real amp and a real xover : ) As far as the xover point goes, I will probably cross them over at like 2600 Hz rather than around 3500 where a lot of xovers are.
"Pick that up!"
Brian Doyle-Murray, Caddyshack
I was very glad that the 6x9's did as well as they did off of the OEM amp. I was confident that the 5.25's would do well.
The tweeter xover issue was this:
The OEM amp has a series capacitor on the tweeters. The OEM tweeters measure around four ohms.
We used much better tweeters, but they measure closer to 8 ohms (I think they are about 6 actually). This would have forced the first-order high-pass crossover point created from the OEM amp capacitors DOWN (and it did). When we replaced the tweeters and listened to them using ONLY the factory capacitors, the crossover point was much too low, and way too much midrange energy came out of the tweeters.
Now, I didn't want to pull the whole console apart at that time to see what the two caps inside the amp were, or to bypass them so I could install my own (it was already pretty late in the day). So we tried a quick and easy experiment. We put a 2.2 uF cap in series with the tweeter, to see how that sounded with the OEM capacitor (seriesing capacitors does not add the two values linearly, and I couldn't remember the value of the cap in the amp, so it was a bit of an experiment).
This sounded bad too, but they played only "tss tss tss" sounds. Too far the other direction. So we tried it again with a 4.7 uF cap. (Both of these were metallized polypropylene caps, Bennic, I think.)
This time it sounded pretty good. Perhaps a bit forward in the highs, but these tweeters are brand-spanking new, and I expect them to soften after 10-15 hours of use - that's pretty typical of tweeters as they break in.
So if I was set on doing it "perfectly", I would mod the amp to bypass the series xover caps, but this is a lot of work to go to for a speaker upgrade, and if you ever take them out you will want to put the amp back to stock, so I think the less-invasive way is a better solution.
As far as the voices coming through the tweeters, it's new for Kevin, and I suspect it will grow on him, unless he's become set in his ways : ) Who wants vocals down by your ankle? The sound would change somewhat with a second-order xover if it was a lot higher in xover point (what I suspect he means by a REAL xover, but some pretty expensive speakers use first-order xovers), but I don't like to put second-order xovers on OEM deck-power amps very often. So in a roundabout way I expect it to be addressed by the real amp and a real xover : ) As far as the xover point goes, I will probably cross them over at like 2600 Hz rather than around 3500 where a lot of xovers are.
05-22-2005, 08:07 PM
#4
El Presidente
wow i wish there was a shop like yours near by that would actually take the time to customize and perfect the sound coming out of the installed components rather than jus dropping them in and sayin' "here ya go, you're on your own"
05-22-2005, 08:11 PM
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Just 10 hours on I-5, baby: )
Seriously, isn't there a shop that's tight with Zapco or Arc Audio in your area that does that kind of work? I would expect that those firms, which are in the Sac/Modesto area, should know some good shops...
Seriously, isn't there a shop that's tight with Zapco or Arc Audio in your area that does that kind of work? I would expect that those firms, which are in the Sac/Modesto area, should know some good shops...
05-22-2005, 08:42 PM
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Team Owner
Originally Posted by elduderino
Just 10 hours on I-5, baby: )
Originally Posted by elduderino
We put a 2.2 uF cap in series with the tweeter, to see how that sounded with the OEM capacitor (seriesing capacitors does not add the two values linearly, and I couldn't remember the value of the cap in the amp, so it was a bit of an experiment).
This sounded bad too, but they played only "tss tss tss" sounds. Too far the other direction. So we tried it again with a 4.7 uF cap. (Both of these were metallized polypropylene caps, Bennic, I think.)
This time it sounded pretty good. Perhaps a bit forward in the highs, but these tweeters are brand-spanking new, and I expect them to soften after 10-15 hours of use - that's pretty typical of tweeters as they break in.
This sounded bad too, but they played only "tss tss tss" sounds. Too far the other direction. So we tried it again with a 4.7 uF cap. (Both of these were metallized polypropylene caps, Bennic, I think.)
This time it sounded pretty good. Perhaps a bit forward in the highs, but these tweeters are brand-spanking new, and I expect them to soften after 10-15 hours of use - that's pretty typical of tweeters as they break in.
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05-23-2005, 12:18 AM
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Glad to hear the install was so fine tuned.
Just on topic, MOST shops SHOULD DO THIS. The might charge you for the extra time, but IF You are a SQ guy/gal then this is well worth the time and money on your end.
It's all about fine tuning EACH car. Cost me a little more money but it sounds so much better than if it was just a drop-in and see ya shop.
Ryan
Just on topic, MOST shops SHOULD DO THIS. The might charge you for the extra time, but IF You are a SQ guy/gal then this is well worth the time and money on your end.
It's all about fine tuning EACH car. Cost me a little more money but it sounds so much better than if it was just a drop-in and see ya shop.
Ryan
05-25-2005, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by jlukja
This is good news. I've been salivating over elduderino's avincar speaker swap. I'm not so much into volume nor do I want my TSX shaking with bass. SQ is my no. 1 goal and it seems the mod takes you quite a bit in that direction.
You swapped out all four door speakers yet you feel the front speakers are overpowering? Do you mean there is not enough bass? Are the front doors overpowering the rear doors or is it that you feel the dashboard tweets carry too much volume in relation to the front doors?
How much do you think the sound deadening in the front doors contributes to the improved sound?
I'm not so much into volume nor do I want my TSX shaking with bass. SQ is my no. 1 goal and it seems the mod takes you quite a bit in that direction.You swapped out all four door speakers yet you feel the front speakers are overpowering? Do you mean there is not enough bass? Are the front doors overpowering the rear doors or is it that you feel the dashboard tweets carry too much volume in relation to the front doors?
How much do you think the sound deadening in the front doors contributes to the improved sound?
At first, the tweets seemed to play at a higher volume, but have calmed down after a few days.
I am very happy with this setup. I'm hoping to start phase 2 in a few weeks hopefully!
Sorry for the slow response, It's been tough to get on the board lately to reply to this tread.
Thanks again go out to Justin and Ken. They did a great job!
05-25-2005, 04:00 PM
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Elduderino -
What about a set of 6*9's from you. Im working on a limited budget so i am trying to do speakers first and then the rest. I was going to start with the 6*9's to try and get a little more bass.
In this review and the CLS review both guys said they have better bass. Would a set of your 6*9's provide that? My other choice is Polk DB690's.
I have tried to read every thread on here about speakers but im still noobish when it comes to speakers. So any help is very very appreciated.
What about a set of 6*9's from you. Im working on a limited budget so i am trying to do speakers first and then the rest. I was going to start with the 6*9's to try and get a little more bass.
In this review and the CLS review both guys said they have better bass. Would a set of your 6*9's provide that? My other choice is Polk DB690's.
I have tried to read every thread on here about speakers but im still noobish when it comes to speakers. So any help is very very appreciated.
05-25-2005, 09:12 PM
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I've sent you a PM.
I've had a few questions about "just the fronts" or "just the 6x9's"?
I can do that, but part of the appeal of the system is that we've tested that the relative efficiencies of all the speakers work WITHOUT the ability to tune them separately the way you can tune an aftermarket amp. The 6x9's fade with the R speakers, and if you can't control them directly, it might sound thin or tubby (depending). I'm still willing to do it, but just be aware that it's not the proven result of the whole kit, that's all : )
I've had a few questions about "just the fronts" or "just the 6x9's"?
I can do that, but part of the appeal of the system is that we've tested that the relative efficiencies of all the speakers work WITHOUT the ability to tune them separately the way you can tune an aftermarket amp. The 6x9's fade with the R speakers, and if you can't control them directly, it might sound thin or tubby (depending). I'm still willing to do it, but just be aware that it's not the proven result of the whole kit, that's all : )
05-25-2005, 10:47 PM
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Cool eldude, thanks again for the help.
Im not too swift with the technical terms of car audio, and ive never installed or had to tune an aftermarket amp, so to be honest i dont have a clue. haha!!
I have been reading these posts to try and make sense out of it, but because i have limited funds at the current moment, im trying to get the best bang for my buck, for both SQ and bass.
Im not too swift with the technical terms of car audio, and ive never installed or had to tune an aftermarket amp, so to be honest i dont have a clue. haha!!
I have been reading these posts to try and make sense out of it, but because i have limited funds at the current moment, im trying to get the best bang for my buck, for both SQ and bass.
05-26-2005, 12:36 AM
#13
Team Owner
Originally Posted by elduderino
I've sent you a PM.
I've had a few questions about "just the fronts" or "just the 6x9's"?
I can do that, but part of the appeal of the system is that we've tested that the relative efficiencies of all the speakers work WITHOUT the ability to tune them separately the way you can tune an aftermarket amp. The 6x9's fade with the R speakers, and if you can't control them directly, it might sound thin or tubby (depending). I'm still willing to do it, but just be aware that it's not the proven result of the whole kit, that's all : )
I've had a few questions about "just the fronts" or "just the 6x9's"?
I can do that, but part of the appeal of the system is that we've tested that the relative efficiencies of all the speakers work WITHOUT the ability to tune them separately the way you can tune an aftermarket amp. The 6x9's fade with the R speakers, and if you can't control them directly, it might sound thin or tubby (depending). I'm still willing to do it, but just be aware that it's not the proven result of the whole kit, that's all : )
....the rear door speakers and 6x9's are both hooked up to the Rear.
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