for those that have asked
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From: conway ar
for those that have asked
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From: Memphis
lol I was just reading your article in whatever magazine you were just in (i can't remember which magazine it was though, and the writing sucked, especially the part about how the builder designed the ports, what a load that was) anyway it did help spark a debate between myself and our other senior installer, you really feel that the 4" in the A pillars helps raise the sound stage of the mids? and moreover, did you blend it in by putting the drivers side out of phase and the correcting it all using the symmetry?
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From: conway ar
Mobile Elec. write up wasn't too hot.
CA&E's write up was dead on. Very technical. If you're talking about the whole Bernoulli's Principle thing...it makes sense, go check out Klipsch's Reference speakers. Look at the port on the enclosure and look at the Tractix horns...tell me how crazy I am. COntact B&W and ask them why the shapes of the enclosures around their drivers are shaped the way they are. Try one port that flared and blended with the face of the enclosure that way and one port the normal way, I bet you can tell a difference with port noise. With JL it will be minimal anyway becuase of the tuning freqs they recommend. THat box is tuned at 31.5 hz and has 4 feet of port in it. Don't knock it until you try it.
A-pillars, way more involved than throwing one mid out of phase, trust me. A lot has to do with the design of the dash/windshield in a TL. Also has a lot to do with crossover points and slopes. We tried them in the kick, it just wasn't doing it for me. I've had two other kick panel competition cars. Image height is a given. THe midbasses don't pull down at all due to the fact of the freq range they are playing and the ability of the human ear to locate those freq easily. Also the door locations will actually reflect some off of the windsheild (if you stand outside the door of the car and look straight in at the door vs. the windshield, you can see what I'm talking about). Notice the tweeters have an eyelid to stop immediate reflections off the windshiled and the mids are turned about 30 degrees off axis to the listener. Way more involved than just sticking them up there. Driver selection has A LOT to do with what will work in an a-pillar.
CA&E's write up was dead on. Very technical. If you're talking about the whole Bernoulli's Principle thing...it makes sense, go check out Klipsch's Reference speakers. Look at the port on the enclosure and look at the Tractix horns...tell me how crazy I am. COntact B&W and ask them why the shapes of the enclosures around their drivers are shaped the way they are. Try one port that flared and blended with the face of the enclosure that way and one port the normal way, I bet you can tell a difference with port noise. With JL it will be minimal anyway becuase of the tuning freqs they recommend. THat box is tuned at 31.5 hz and has 4 feet of port in it. Don't knock it until you try it.
A-pillars, way more involved than throwing one mid out of phase, trust me. A lot has to do with the design of the dash/windshield in a TL. Also has a lot to do with crossover points and slopes. We tried them in the kick, it just wasn't doing it for me. I've had two other kick panel competition cars. Image height is a given. THe midbasses don't pull down at all due to the fact of the freq range they are playing and the ability of the human ear to locate those freq easily. Also the door locations will actually reflect some off of the windsheild (if you stand outside the door of the car and look straight in at the door vs. the windshield, you can see what I'm talking about). Notice the tweeters have an eyelid to stop immediate reflections off the windshiled and the mids are turned about 30 degrees off axis to the listener. Way more involved than just sticking them up there. Driver selection has A LOT to do with what will work in an a-pillar.
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From: Memphis
Originally Posted by grocerygetter
Mobile Elec. write up wasn't too hot.
CA&E's write up was dead on. Very technical. If you're talking about the whole Bernoulli's Principle thing...it makes sense, go check out Klipsch's Reference speakers. Look at the port on the enclosure and look at the Tractix horns...tell me how crazy I am. COntact B&W and ask them why the shapes of the enclosures around their drivers are shaped the way they are. Try one port that flared and blended with the face of the enclosure that way and one port the normal way, I bet you can tell a difference with port noise. With JL it will be minimal anyway becuase of the tuning freqs they recommend. THat box is tuned at 31.5 hz and has 4 feet of port in it. Don't knock it until you try it.
A-pillars, way more involved than throwing one mid out of phase, trust me. A lot has to do with the design of the dash/windshield in a TL. Also has a lot to do with crossover points and slopes. We tried them in the kick, it just wasn't doing it for me. I've had two other kick panel competition cars. Image height is a given. THe midbasses don't pull down at all due to the fact of the freq range they are playing and the ability of the human ear to locate those freq easily. Also the door locations will actually reflect some off of the windsheild (if you stand outside the door of the car and look straight in at the door vs. the windshield, you can see what I'm talking about). Notice the tweeters have an eyelid to stop immediate reflections off the windshiled and the mids are turned about 30 degrees off axis to the listener. Way more involved than just sticking them up there. Driver selection has A LOT to do with what will work in an a-pillar.
CA&E's write up was dead on. Very technical. If you're talking about the whole Bernoulli's Principle thing...it makes sense, go check out Klipsch's Reference speakers. Look at the port on the enclosure and look at the Tractix horns...tell me how crazy I am. COntact B&W and ask them why the shapes of the enclosures around their drivers are shaped the way they are. Try one port that flared and blended with the face of the enclosure that way and one port the normal way, I bet you can tell a difference with port noise. With JL it will be minimal anyway becuase of the tuning freqs they recommend. THat box is tuned at 31.5 hz and has 4 feet of port in it. Don't knock it until you try it.
A-pillars, way more involved than throwing one mid out of phase, trust me. A lot has to do with the design of the dash/windshield in a TL. Also has a lot to do with crossover points and slopes. We tried them in the kick, it just wasn't doing it for me. I've had two other kick panel competition cars. Image height is a given. THe midbasses don't pull down at all due to the fact of the freq range they are playing and the ability of the human ear to locate those freq easily. Also the door locations will actually reflect some off of the windsheild (if you stand outside the door of the car and look straight in at the door vs. the windshield, you can see what I'm talking about). Notice the tweeters have an eyelid to stop immediate reflections off the windshiled and the mids are turned about 30 degrees off axis to the listener. Way more involved than just sticking them up there. Driver selection has A LOT to do with what will work in an a-pillar.
As for the A pillars, with a sound stage that elevated and that close to a reflective surface (the windshield), I guess my question was more along the lines of this: was putting one out of phase the starting point to center the sound stage, then go through and using the crossovers points, time correction, slope adjustment, etc. The reason I ask is we have a few music producers we do cars for here in memphis, and any tips on giving them something new, and loaded with sound quality means, well it means more money in my pocket.
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From: conway ar
I don't want to tip my hat too far...being that World FInals is in Nov. But, every car will be different. Some cars wouldn't work with this application if you wanted a "2 seat" car like mine is...in other words, it images well from both seats. If you only want a drivers side biased soundstage, I think you could pull it off in anything that didn't have a huge instrument cluster hump. Start at the bottom of the a-pillar with the drivers firing across at one another. Slide them up and keep listening, change angle of drivers, stop when it sounds the best. Phasing...once again, depends on vehicle. You should always check ALL drivers.
There is no time correction being used on the front stage but there is a little on the sub.
Just an FYI, I would think by looking at off-axis freq resp curves that Dynaudio and Morel are going to be the way to go for this type of application. I THINK a dome mid really makes this work well.
There is no time correction being used on the front stage but there is a little on the sub.
Just an FYI, I would think by looking at off-axis freq resp curves that Dynaudio and Morel are going to be the way to go for this type of application. I THINK a dome mid really makes this work well.
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