System done - pics (whew....finally)
Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,543
Likes: 193
From: Southern N.H.
System done - pics (whew....finally)
For those of you keeping track I finally got the sucker in and all I can say is 
. It really makes me wonder why I put up with the stock system for so long. I can actually hold a conversation with the volume pretty high without having to scream. I also don't get a headache listening at high volumes anymore. Everything is very crisp and clear. I've been cranking up stuff I had'nt listened to in a while like: Supertramp, Sting, Andreas Volenwieder, because it just sounds sooo nice. Don't worry, I still love my good ol'e Metallica, Tool, Sabbath 
, etc.
Anyway,
This was my first major install and it took me a while mostly becase I could only work on it from 8:00pm-4:00am while the kids were asleep. I miss the days of being able to binge work for 18-24 hours at a time-UNINTERRUPTED.
Allright here's the site:Iggy's stereo install
iggster
. It really makes me wonder why I put up with the stock system for so long. I can actually hold a conversation with the volume pretty high without having to scream. I also don't get a headache listening at high volumes anymore. Everything is very crisp and clear. I've been cranking up stuff I had'nt listened to in a while like: Supertramp, Sting, Andreas Volenwieder, because it just sounds sooo nice. Don't worry, I still love my good ol'e Metallica, Tool, Sabbath , etc.Anyway,
This was my first major install and it took me a while mostly becase I could only work on it from 8:00pm-4:00am while the kids were asleep. I miss the days of being able to binge work for 18-24 hours at a time-UNINTERRUPTED.
Allright here's the site:Iggy's stereo install
iggster
Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,543
Likes: 193
From: Southern N.H.
Ok,
Now I have some questions for you audio experts out there.
Somehow I picked up some slight engine noise along the way which I can control somewhat with the gains turned down on the amp. Any ideas where I might have picked it up from based on the pics in the last post?
I also get a slight humming noise when the head lights are on and I set the Instrument lights rheostat to anything less than full bright. I have no idea.
The LOC's I used were PAC 2ch variable gain. The LOC gains I left at the factory setting, which is about half of full. Is it possible The LOC's are picking up the noise behind the HU. I'm fully prepared to move them to another place(even the trunk) if you guys think It may help. The RCA's are Tsunami double shield cable which I thought would prevent this.
The amp has HP(high-pass) & FR(full range) settings for the front and rear channels. What is this? When I set them to HP it seems to lessen the noise.
The noises I'm talking about are barely perceptable when sitting at idle in park, and I think I'm the only one that would hear them while driving, but being the anal type I want it perfect!
There is a "bump" I get when I turn the stereo power on using just the HU power switch. When I start the car with the HU allready on I don't hear it. I know it's coming from the amp, but is it because it's not really that high-end of an amp?
Don't get me wrong, this system sounds incredably nice compared to the stock set-up, and if these are things I just can't get around I guess I'll have to stop sweating the small stuff and enjoy.
Cheers,
Iggy
Now I have some questions for you audio experts out there.
Somehow I picked up some slight engine noise along the way which I can control somewhat with the gains turned down on the amp. Any ideas where I might have picked it up from based on the pics in the last post?
I also get a slight humming noise when the head lights are on and I set the Instrument lights rheostat to anything less than full bright. I have no idea.
The LOC's I used were PAC 2ch variable gain. The LOC gains I left at the factory setting, which is about half of full. Is it possible The LOC's are picking up the noise behind the HU. I'm fully prepared to move them to another place(even the trunk) if you guys think It may help. The RCA's are Tsunami double shield cable which I thought would prevent this.
The amp has HP(high-pass) & FR(full range) settings for the front and rear channels. What is this? When I set them to HP it seems to lessen the noise.
The noises I'm talking about are barely perceptable when sitting at idle in park, and I think I'm the only one that would hear them while driving, but being the anal type I want it perfect!
There is a "bump" I get when I turn the stereo power on using just the HU power switch. When I start the car with the HU allready on I don't hear it. I know it's coming from the amp, but is it because it's not really that high-end of an amp?
Don't get me wrong, this system sounds incredably nice compared to the stock set-up, and if these are things I just can't get around I guess I'll have to stop sweating the small stuff and enjoy.
Cheers,
Iggy
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
oh wow....
It's good to see somebody else who's as anal about detail as myself.. I'm even willing to admit that you've outdone me.
VERY IMPRESSED with your install, especially with the fact that you've soldered and heat-shrunk all the connections. You'll NEVER have to worry about wires coming loose, or shorting out due to moisture.
Some of the goons that work for install shops here are real hacks. I've had one piece of equipment "professionally" installed. I had to rip it all out a coouple of months later and do it right myself. Never again.
I swear any system just sounds better knowing you've done it all yourself (plus it keeps you out of trouble for 2 or three weekends)...
VERY IMPRESSED with your install, especially with the fact that you've soldered and heat-shrunk all the connections. You'll NEVER have to worry about wires coming loose, or shorting out due to moisture.
Some of the goons that work for install shops here are real hacks. I've had one piece of equipment "professionally" installed. I had to rip it all out a coouple of months later and do it right myself. Never again.
I swear any system just sounds better knowing you've done it all yourself (plus it keeps you out of trouble for 2 or three weekends)...
Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,543
Likes: 193
From: Southern N.H.
Southy,
To answer some of your questions from the other post.
Yes
no
maybe
yes
just kidding.
The new speakers were waaaaay too bright with that stupid EQ in the loop. Since the EQ bypass everything is mostly dead center and perfect, depending on the music which sometimes needs just a little tweaking.
Yes, the HU still retains the Volume ramp feature after the bypass, as well as bass & treble control.
I'm not sure about the clipping protection because with an additional amp that CAN clip you would never know which one is actually clipping. However, my money would say the HU keeps the feature.
Iggster
To answer some of your questions from the other post.
Yes
no
maybe
yes
just kidding.
The new speakers were waaaaay too bright with that stupid EQ in the loop. Since the EQ bypass everything is mostly dead center and perfect, depending on the music which sometimes needs just a little tweaking.
Yes, the HU still retains the Volume ramp feature after the bypass, as well as bass & treble control.
I'm not sure about the clipping protection because with an additional amp that CAN clip you would never know which one is actually clipping. However, my money would say the HU keeps the feature.
Iggster
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
From: Saskatoon, Sask, Canada
IGGY...
follow this link:
http://www.audiowarehouse.sk.ca/
Click on the CAR STEREO link, and Download Steve's Car Audio Tips & Hints (62.6kb). it is a self-extracting zip file with a Word document. He has placed a really good section in there related to isolating engine noise.
I liked it so much I turned it into HTML, and re-created a couple of the illustrations in Visio, then saved them as GIF files. At some point they're going to replace the cheesy doc file with my HTML version, but who knows when.
follow this link:
http://www.audiowarehouse.sk.ca/
Click on the CAR STEREO link, and Download Steve's Car Audio Tips & Hints (62.6kb). it is a self-extracting zip file with a Word document. He has placed a really good section in there related to isolating engine noise.
I liked it so much I turned it into HTML, and re-created a couple of the illustrations in Visio, then saved them as GIF files. At some point they're going to replace the cheesy doc file with my HTML version, but who knows when.
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Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,543
Likes: 193
From: Southern N.H.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,661
Likes: 2
From: Bay Area, Ca
Dude !!! That is h*ll of a nice job. 
I am very impressed !!!
How long did it take for you to wire everything up ? Did you do it yourself or you have buddies to help out ?
No matter what, I really like it. Nice work Iggy !
Oh. BTW, how does it sound like without the stock EQ on the way ?
Cheers !!!
I am very impressed !!!How long did it take for you to wire everything up ? Did you do it yourself or you have buddies to help out ?
No matter what, I really like it. Nice work Iggy !
Oh. BTW, how does it sound like without the stock EQ on the way ?
Cheers !!!
Pro
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 698
Likes: 0
UNBELIEVABLE!
IGGY,
THAT'S JUST UNBELIEVABLE WORK! OUTSTANDING!!
You have put an INCREDIBLE amount of work into your project. It's gotta be worth the effort, just to look at it! You've gotta feel really proud to pull that amount of work off without screwing anything up or breaking anything. It's also gotta sound nice. DAYAM!
I can't go through one of my usual ten page posts as I'm packing to leave on vacation for the next week. As far as some of your minor problems. My only first thought was that the cable might not be shielded well enough, but double shielded cable ought to do it. I don't know much about these LOCs... Are they powered or passive? If they're powered, the power leads may need to have a filter choke and BIG bypass cap installed. Are they a plastic or metal grounded case? If they are plastic, you might want to wrap them in heavy copper foil or heavy braid, if you can find it, and ground that. Even several layers of hefty aluminum foil can help to shield the boxes if they are picking up crosstalk from nearby hash sources. It sounds like the dash light pot is a SCR type of control like your typical house lamp dimmer. Unless it it fully on, there are square waves present that can easily radiate into adjacent wiring, etc. There's a LOT of current through the system with the headlights on and the brightness of the light is controlled by the duty cycle of the square waves. When it's all the way on the square waves disappear and so does your crosstalk noise. You might want to shield the power wire to the LOCs and add a filter circuit... Or try a different power lead source. If they are passive (transformer or simple resistive pads) I would definitely wrap them in heavy foil and ground it to prevent them from picking up the noise. I'd shield the LOC boxes in any case... (Unless they are already encased in metal grounded boxes.) It's hard to tell from your photo if they are black plastic, or metal? Fast rise times on square waves will really penetrate adjacent wires and depending upon frequency can rediate a substantial amount of RFI/EMI interference.
That's about all I can think to offer at this point. It sure looks like an awful lot of work just to get back to the LOCs to fool around with them. If any of my suggestions are easy to do, I'd try them... If it's a B!tch to get behind everything again, and you can live with it... then I'd just CRANK IT! It could also be getting picked up somehow through the EQ bypass wiring. The impedances there may be fairly high. You could also try to put some braided shield around the pairs of wires and ground them at ONE end of the braid only. This would shield them from picking up interference, but would not cause any kind of weird ground loop condition. Unfortunately, problems like this can often take a lot of trial and error to solve. Theory is one thing, and practice is another...
KICK BACK AND ENJOY IT FOR A WHILE, and then when you get rested, maybe you can go back in and try to solve some of your anal noise problems. I'm the same way... IT'S ALWAYS GOT TO BE PERFECT! ...at least until I've exhausted all reasonable attempts at trying to achieve it.
I'm also IMPRESSED with your website and photo gallery. FANTASTIC WORK!
I'll be out of touch for a week, but always appreciate seeing this caliber of work and progress reports. If you do make any headway with your noise problems, please post how you solved them so that we can all learn from YOU!
YOU'RE THE MAN!!!
Southbound
THAT'S JUST UNBELIEVABLE WORK! OUTSTANDING!!
You have put an INCREDIBLE amount of work into your project. It's gotta be worth the effort, just to look at it! You've gotta feel really proud to pull that amount of work off without screwing anything up or breaking anything. It's also gotta sound nice. DAYAM!
I can't go through one of my usual ten page posts as I'm packing to leave on vacation for the next week. As far as some of your minor problems. My only first thought was that the cable might not be shielded well enough, but double shielded cable ought to do it. I don't know much about these LOCs... Are they powered or passive? If they're powered, the power leads may need to have a filter choke and BIG bypass cap installed. Are they a plastic or metal grounded case? If they are plastic, you might want to wrap them in heavy copper foil or heavy braid, if you can find it, and ground that. Even several layers of hefty aluminum foil can help to shield the boxes if they are picking up crosstalk from nearby hash sources. It sounds like the dash light pot is a SCR type of control like your typical house lamp dimmer. Unless it it fully on, there are square waves present that can easily radiate into adjacent wiring, etc. There's a LOT of current through the system with the headlights on and the brightness of the light is controlled by the duty cycle of the square waves. When it's all the way on the square waves disappear and so does your crosstalk noise. You might want to shield the power wire to the LOCs and add a filter circuit... Or try a different power lead source. If they are passive (transformer or simple resistive pads) I would definitely wrap them in heavy foil and ground it to prevent them from picking up the noise. I'd shield the LOC boxes in any case... (Unless they are already encased in metal grounded boxes.) It's hard to tell from your photo if they are black plastic, or metal? Fast rise times on square waves will really penetrate adjacent wires and depending upon frequency can rediate a substantial amount of RFI/EMI interference.
That's about all I can think to offer at this point. It sure looks like an awful lot of work just to get back to the LOCs to fool around with them. If any of my suggestions are easy to do, I'd try them... If it's a B!tch to get behind everything again, and you can live with it... then I'd just CRANK IT! It could also be getting picked up somehow through the EQ bypass wiring. The impedances there may be fairly high. You could also try to put some braided shield around the pairs of wires and ground them at ONE end of the braid only. This would shield them from picking up interference, but would not cause any kind of weird ground loop condition. Unfortunately, problems like this can often take a lot of trial and error to solve. Theory is one thing, and practice is another...
KICK BACK AND ENJOY IT FOR A WHILE, and then when you get rested, maybe you can go back in and try to solve some of your anal noise problems. I'm the same way... IT'S ALWAYS GOT TO BE PERFECT! ...at least until I've exhausted all reasonable attempts at trying to achieve it.
I'm also IMPRESSED with your website and photo gallery. FANTASTIC WORK!
I'll be out of touch for a week, but always appreciate seeing this caliber of work and progress reports. If you do make any headway with your noise problems, please post how you solved them so that we can all learn from YOU!
YOU'RE THE MAN!!!
Southbound
Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,543
Likes: 193
From: Southern N.H.
Mike H & Dr Cookie
Mike H. & Dr Cookie,
All told, It probably took me about about 10-12 hours by myself to do all the wiring. The actual work in the HU area was the easiest because I allready had it planned out. What took me the longest was to remove & replace the interior. I went very slooooow with that because I did'nt want to break anything. I'm glad I ordered the Helms manual a few weeks ago, that thing is a must for this kind of job. Now that I've done it once I could do the same thing in literally half the time.
The 10-12 hrs does not include the door work or amp mount. That took me about 10hrs of actual work including fabricating door spacers and amp rack. I say actual work because there were many beer breaks while thinking about the next step plus the fact that I could only work nights on the project. In all, a little over a week because I had to dedicate a couple of nights to the misses, for fear I would end up in divorce court.
As far as the EQ bypass goes, Huuuuuuuuge improvement. I pretty much keep the bass & treble controls centered now and get a nice balanced sound.
Cheers,
Iggy
All told, It probably took me about about 10-12 hours by myself to do all the wiring. The actual work in the HU area was the easiest because I allready had it planned out. What took me the longest was to remove & replace the interior. I went very slooooow with that because I did'nt want to break anything. I'm glad I ordered the Helms manual a few weeks ago, that thing is a must for this kind of job. Now that I've done it once I could do the same thing in literally half the time.
The 10-12 hrs does not include the door work or amp mount. That took me about 10hrs of actual work including fabricating door spacers and amp rack. I say actual work because there were many beer breaks while thinking about the next step plus the fact that I could only work nights on the project. In all, a little over a week because I had to dedicate a couple of nights to the misses, for fear I would end up in divorce court.
As far as the EQ bypass goes, Huuuuuuuuge improvement. I pretty much keep the bass & treble controls centered now and get a nice balanced sound.
Cheers,
Iggy
Pro
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 646
Likes: 2
From: miami
Originally posted by Iggy
Ok,
Now I have some questions for you audio experts out there.
Somehow I picked up some slight engine noise along the way which I can control somewhat with the gains turned down on the amp. Any ideas where I might have picked it up from based on the pics in the last post?
now .. I can't see too clearly how your RCAs and power cable are running. in the past in my old car, I've had that issue which I solved by running RCA on one side of the car, and POWER on the other side. THEN, I ran the speaker wires on the 'top' of the door frames back to the front. that way, NO wires whatsoever even came 'near' the power wire. I ALSO read that if the wires 'have' to cross each other, then cross them at 90 degree angles. That solved the problem in my older car. this time around, I had someone else do the install .. and well.. all the wires are jumbled right next to each other!! I noticed the same hum when I drove home .. occasionally coming in. so I was like.. fogg!! I have to rewire. but then I came home, saw the gain was way too high and after twiddling with it .. the whine completely dissappeared out of hearing range.... Volume all the way up .. ear to tweeter..music on pause.. no hum/whizz.. I considered myself lucky to not have to rewire. not worth the issue just to get rid of something I can't hear.
The amp has HP(high-pass) & FR(full range) settings for the front and rear channels. What is this? When I set them to HP it seems to lessen the noise.
if you notice, there's also a frequency that u can set with it. say you set it at 80hz. and 'high pass' it means that only frequencies above 80 will pass through. other frequencies will just be dropped. the speaker wont ever see it to reproduce it. its possible that a segment of the whine/noise is below the set frequency .. so it gets dropped.
The noises I'm talking about are barely perceptable when sitting at idle in park, and I think I'm the only one that would hear them while driving, but being the anal type I want it perfect!
I share your pain. I understand the feeling
I applaud your resolve.
There is a "bump" I get when I turn the stereo power on using just the HU power switch. When I start the car with the HU allready on I don't hear it. I know it's coming from the amp, but is it because it's not really that high-end of an amp?
there's a feature on some amps that will 'suppress' this bump. its possible that your amp didn't include this feature for whatever reason. at the best buy sample car .. before they had new amps put in .. this used to happen. I found it to be neat at the time I thought .. yea.. let the bump be the harbinger of fearsome power!!
Don't get me wrong, this system sounds incredably nice compared to the stock set-up, and if these are things I just can't get around I guess I'll have to stop sweating the small stuff and enjoy.
Cheers,
Iggy
gotta sweat it man!! gotta have all the quirks out cuz it'll just nag u ..
Ok,
Now I have some questions for you audio experts out there.
Somehow I picked up some slight engine noise along the way which I can control somewhat with the gains turned down on the amp. Any ideas where I might have picked it up from based on the pics in the last post?
now .. I can't see too clearly how your RCAs and power cable are running. in the past in my old car, I've had that issue which I solved by running RCA on one side of the car, and POWER on the other side. THEN, I ran the speaker wires on the 'top' of the door frames back to the front. that way, NO wires whatsoever even came 'near' the power wire. I ALSO read that if the wires 'have' to cross each other, then cross them at 90 degree angles. That solved the problem in my older car. this time around, I had someone else do the install .. and well.. all the wires are jumbled right next to each other!! I noticed the same hum when I drove home .. occasionally coming in. so I was like.. fogg!! I have to rewire. but then I came home, saw the gain was way too high and after twiddling with it .. the whine completely dissappeared out of hearing range.... Volume all the way up .. ear to tweeter..music on pause.. no hum/whizz.. I considered myself lucky to not have to rewire. not worth the issue just to get rid of something I can't hear.
The amp has HP(high-pass) & FR(full range) settings for the front and rear channels. What is this? When I set them to HP it seems to lessen the noise.
if you notice, there's also a frequency that u can set with it. say you set it at 80hz. and 'high pass' it means that only frequencies above 80 will pass through. other frequencies will just be dropped. the speaker wont ever see it to reproduce it. its possible that a segment of the whine/noise is below the set frequency .. so it gets dropped.
The noises I'm talking about are barely perceptable when sitting at idle in park, and I think I'm the only one that would hear them while driving, but being the anal type I want it perfect!
I share your pain. I understand the feeling
I applaud your resolve. There is a "bump" I get when I turn the stereo power on using just the HU power switch. When I start the car with the HU allready on I don't hear it. I know it's coming from the amp, but is it because it's not really that high-end of an amp?
there's a feature on some amps that will 'suppress' this bump. its possible that your amp didn't include this feature for whatever reason. at the best buy sample car .. before they had new amps put in .. this used to happen. I found it to be neat at the time
I thought .. yea.. let the bump be the harbinger of fearsome power!! Don't get me wrong, this system sounds incredably nice compared to the stock set-up, and if these are things I just can't get around I guess I'll have to stop sweating the small stuff and enjoy.
Cheers,
Iggy
gotta sweat it man!! gotta have all the quirks out cuz it'll just nag u ..
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
There is a "bump" I get when I turn the stereo power on using just the HU power switch. When I start the car with the HU allready on I don't hear it. I know it's coming from the amp, but is it because it's not really that high-end of an amp?
DISCLAIMER...I am not an expert in Audio technology...
The pop you hear is residual charge or charge building up on the capacitors. Most amps have muting built in using mosfets...It could also be your cross over...or wiring(make sure everything is grounded)...
if everything looks ok then you might want to consider relays to disconnect the speakers and connect after say five seconds...I have seen these in older amplifiers...
or you could use a DC blocking capacitor.
I have heard that the bumps are not good for your speakers.
-Tom
DISCLAIMER...I am not an expert in Audio technology...
The pop you hear is residual charge or charge building up on the capacitors. Most amps have muting built in using mosfets...It could also be your cross over...or wiring(make sure everything is grounded)...
if everything looks ok then you might want to consider relays to disconnect the speakers and connect after say five seconds...I have seen these in older amplifiers...
or you could use a DC blocking capacitor.
I have heard that the bumps are not good for your speakers.
-Tom
Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,543
Likes: 193
From: Southern N.H.
thomas_rp,
Thanks,
The "Bumps" are very light and the amp is wired using Mosfet tech, but I'm curious...... about your your grounding comment. Do you mean the gound of the amp? Or were you referring to the (-) leads of the speakers?
Iggy
Thanks,
The "Bumps" are very light and the amp is wired using Mosfet tech, but I'm curious...... about your your grounding comment. Do you mean the gound of the amp? Or were you referring to the (-) leads of the speakers?
Iggy
Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,543
Likes: 193
From: Southern N.H.
Originally posted by bloo_tls02
Am I missing something here?? I saw the "work-in-progress" pics, but not the completed product
Am I missing something here?? I saw the "work-in-progress" pics, but not the completed product
Nope, you didn't miss anything. Besides the tweeters on the doors and the amp in the trunk( which you have to bend down to see) I wanted to keep the stock look. Everyone knows what the interior looks like so I didn't post any pics of it all put back together because there really isn't anything to see.
The only thing left is to put covers over the wiring on the amp and I'm done!
Iggy
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