I have an '06 TSX and am struggling on what audio set up I should get. I have a $1200 budget and would like to get the following:

*Subs (I can make te enclosure)
*Amps
*Front and rear door speakers

The wife bought me a Rockford Fosgate set up for V-Day, she bought at Best Buy and now I'm itching to do the project right.

She got the following Rockford Fosgate equipment for $500:
*1ea. P300-1 Amp
*2ea. PIS412 Subs
*1ea Enclosure
*1ea. 8ga RF wiring Kit

I'm thinking of returning the RF stuff back to BB and going all Alpine. I've looked and priced the following:

*1ea. Alpine PDX-1.600 Mono Amp
*1ea. Alpine PDX-4.100 4/3/2 Channel Power Density Digital Amplifier
*1 set of Alpine Type-R SPR-17S - 110 Watt - 2-way - component - 6.5"
*1 maybe 2 Alpine SWR-1242D 12" Type-R Series Subwoofer (4 Ohm)
*1 set of Alpine Type-R SPR-17C - Car speaker - 100 Watt - 2-way - coaxial - 6.5"

I grew up with RF, but have read a lot of great stuff here on Alpine products. I don't want "my doors to fall off" kind of system, just want to have a crisp clean sound with a healthy bass! I'm ready to pull the trigger now, just need some advice from those that have already gone down this road.

I would greatly appreciate any help/advice.

Thanks,

Wayne

 

How much do you value you marriage? (Just kidding. Your wife probably understands you want to do this a particular way.)

I'm sure you must know Rockford Fosgate is newer than Alpine. (Your comment about growing up with it made me wonder if you thought Alpine was a newer company.) I was running Alpine stuff in the 80's and then later tried RF -- both offer terrific equipment.

I think the set-up you have should be plenty in terms of power, especially if the sub is efficient...I'd just consider adding the 6.5" speakers to the laundry list. For me, the amps on the second list are more than you need. (Unless you actually want to "blow the doors off.")

 

The Mrs. will be fine. VD treated her just fine.

Thanks for the advice. Your comment about adding 6.5" speakers: That is exactly why I've reconsidered the set up. RF doesn't have much of an assortment in component and rear door speakers. I definitely want to upgrade the OEM door speakers. too.I'd prefer not to mix and match brands.

Any other thoughts/ suggestions on a set up?????

 

Does that mean what I think it means?

 

Get your head out of the gutter, dude.

VD = Valentine's Day.

I'm itching to pull the trigger on the order of all Alpine. Any thoughts????

Thanks again.

 

You won’t be able to connect the Alpines directly to the TSX HU. The RF stuff should be NP.

Also class D is OK for driving subs but for the main channels stick with class A/B

Jeff

 

mercman,

Thanks for your response. You mentioned that I would not be able to connect the Alpines directly to the TSX HU. I'm not sure I follow you??? What would i need??

So, is the Alpine PDX-4.100, to drive the door speakers too much?

 

Mercman,

Are you referring to connecting the door speakers to the TSX HU or connecting the Alpine Amps to the TSX head unit. I did purchase a Soundgate XR4 4-Channel 85-Watt High Power All-In-One Line Output Converter to provide RCA's to hook up the amps. Is this what you're referring to?

Thanks again.

 

If you use an amp with balanced inputs you can connect to the factory HU line outs and bypass the factory amp. All of the TSX systems EQ is in the factory amp, the premium HU is an excellent source. If you use LOCs off the speaker wires then your stuck with the factory selected EQ.

Jeff

 

Thanks again mercman. Ok, now I'm thoroughly confused.

Without sounding like a complete noob, I'll be the first to admit that I'm not a complete audiophile as it relates to the technical aspects and workings of an OEM car stereo. I have installed many straight forward amps and subs to aftermarket HU's. As a matter of fact, I'm one of the few on this forum who, with some guidance some of the members on this forum and my trusty TSX service and electrical manual, installed an OEM NAVI on my Non-Navi TSX. See below link.

https://acurazine.com/forums/audio-video-electronics-navigation-22/non-navi-navi-can-done-355663/

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not afraid to do the research and get my hands dirty, just need to get some guidance from some of those who are much more savvy at understanding how the OEM stereo/amp/speaker system in this car works and can help/guide me in the right direction for a decent aftermarket amps, sub, and doors speaker system installation that will work nicely with my TSX.

I have to imagine that if I was able to install an OEM navi to my non-navi car, an upgraded stereo and speaker system should be a bit easier...right?

My biggest confusion is on how to connect aftermarket amps to the OEM head unit.
*Do I use the LOC before or after the amp?
*What's the difference/benefit of doing it one way vs the other?
*What's the best way of doing it given the components I've listed above?
*Do I need to change the type of components I've listed above? If so, how?

I realize it's a lot of questions. Just trying to make sense out of it.

Again, any help or suggestions are much appreciated.

 

Alpine if you like the main stream kinda stuff

 

Let’s start with your amps,
First, if you’re looking for crisp clean sound then you have to give up on the Alpine PDX or any class D amp. Your best sound will come from class A/B amps like the JL, Rockfords, Kicker Zx and most hi end amps. Class D or digital amps have there place in small hand held systems like Ipods but have no place in the HiFi world. Class D amps work well for home theater subs and car subs because of there low power consumption and small thermal footprint. The distortion from a class D is hard to detect at bass frequencies so it is not a problem. If you are hot for Alpine then go with the V power for the main channels, I run one in my other car with Type X components and I like it.

For the actual connection, I have posted this many times so I will not go in to too much detail.

If you tap in after the amp you will need a LOC or amp with speaker inputs like the V-power. You will also be limited to working with the amps crossovers and response settings as well as the added THD you will get from the factory amp. The only real benefit to this is you can get creative and only amp the channels you want leaving the factory amp to run the others. This will not add up to a killer system.

If you remove the amp (bypass) and take the line outs from the HU you will have 4 flat clean channels to feed your amp. The only thing is the HU uses a balanced output so you need an amp with balanced inputs:
JL
RF Punch and Power

 

mercamn,

Thanks for takign the time. Ithink my real issue was the type D amp. What if I changed out my system to look like this?

BTW- do you still make the famous mercman harness?

*JL AUDIO 450/4 V2 4-CHANNEL AMPLIFIER 450 WATT SLASH AMP - JL Audio
*JL Audio 500/1V2 Car Audio 1-Channel (Mono Block) Subwoofer Amplifier 500 Watts
*1 set of Alpine Type-R SPR-17S - 110 Watt - 2-way - component - 6.5"
*1 set of Alpine Type-R SPR-17C - Car speaker - 100 Watt - 2-way - coaxial - 6.5"
*1 Alpine SWR-1242D 12" Type-R Series Subwoofer (4 Ohm)

Thanks,

Wayne

 

mercman, glad to see you're back! I'll hang out here more often now.

Waynester, I did a similar install in my '06 TSX. A lot of issues were discussed in this thread. I'll be happy to answer any specific questions you may have. mercman is a wealth of knowledge and his help was invaluable in building my initial setup.

Good luck and enjoy!


https://acurazine.com/forums/audio-video-electronics-navigation-22/install-complete-pics-install-finished-product-370359/

 

I’ve been back for a while, I started working on mods for the 2nd gen TSX but I tore up my shoulder in the fall and had to have surgery in December. That and the fact that the NE has had its share of snow and cold weather, has stalled my progress. I have a tech package with the ELS and I am going to start with new speakers then add an amp. The base 2nd gen should be no problem to mod but I need to get one for a day to check the HU outputs.

Waynester
You should have no issues with that set up.

Jeff

 

Saltyone,

Thanks for the note. I actually took my original equipment lisy from your post. I ran up on it a few days ago as I was doing my research. Bice, clean install. Really liked what your installer did with the enclosure and how clean the amps looked behind the rear seat. Did they heat up much back there?

A couple of questions:
*why did you decide to use a D class Amp vs A/B amp for the door speakers and tweets? I know you used a sound controlling device between the HU and the amps - can't remember the name of the device.
*how have the amps held up?
*any thoughts about having done RF's or JL's?
*Any things I should look out for?

 

Saltyone,

Thanks for the note. I actually took my original equipment lisy from your post. I ran up on it a few days ago as I was doing my research. Bice, clean install. Really liked what your installer did with the enclosure and how clean the amps looked behind the rear seat. Did they heat up much back there?

A couple of questions:
*why did you decide to use a D class Amp vs A/B amp for the door speakers and tweets? I know you used a sound controlling device between the HU and the amps - can't remember the name of the device.
*how have the amps held up?
*any thoughts about having done RF's or JL's?
*Any things I should look out for?

 

The amps have never heated up enough to go into protection mode...and I sometimes play them very hard. They're just great amps from top to bottom. The amps were pretty new technology when I bought them and listening to them at the shop, they sounded smoother than the RFs. I've never really been a RF fan but I'm sure they're fine amps.

I first used an Audiocontrol four.1 for a little tweaking capability and to interface the amps with the factory HU. It worked great with mercman's harness. I then upgraded to the Audiocontrol DQL-8. It's a summing device along with DSP and EQ. With it, I no longer needed the harness. The HU wired directly to the DSP. The capabilities of the DQL-8 are amazing.

Unless you are a pretty good do it yourself guy, you'll want to find a respectable installer to help with some of the labor. Don't skimp on the things that will never be seen, they're just as important as speaker and amp selection.

The sub, driven by the Alpine 600.1, sounds great. Mine is in a sealed inclosure with 1.1 cubic feet of air space. I started to replace it a year or so ago but just couldn't justify the expense since it's operated flawlessly. I now have the Type X pros front and rear and love them. I've seen good reviews of the Type Rs and I'm sure they would sound great also. The 400.4 is a great mid and high amp and you will not be disappointed.

mercman and the others are correct that the JL amps will make the install much simpler, and they have a new line of digital amps that I would like to hear. They seem to be priced close to the Alpines and it really is just personal preference. You can't go wrong with either.

 

A class D amp is not truly digital in the sense that it doesn’t actually convert an analog signal to a digital (number). What it does is convert an analog input to a pulse width modulated signal (PWM). It does this by mixing the audio input signal with a triangle wave producing samples of the original signal represented by pluses of varying widths. The pulses then switch the output devices (usually MOSFETs) from an off state to full on. The signal is then passed through a filter (large inductor and a cap(s)) to remove the high frequency component. What you then have is a representation of the original input wave form. Some of the causes of distortion in a class D are:

Nonlinearity cause by jitter in the timing of the triangle wave
Timing errors due to delays in the logic gates and on/off times of the output MOSFETs
Ringing and roll off on the edges of the PWM signal
Power supply fluctuations, since a class D amp always switches from full on to full off it uses 100% of the available power supply (rail) voltage. If the rail voltage fluctuates the fluctuation will be audible. A class D amps supply rail will fluctuate due to a condition call “pumping” where power from the load and filter components are reflected back into the power supply. This again is because like a light switch the output is on or off, when on you see for full power supply rail.

A class D amp can not match the THD and linearity of a proper class A/B amp.

To be fair there are prefect class A/B amps but the design has advanced to the point where very low distortion A/B amps are available for car audio. Basically you have to find a good audio store and do some serious listening.

As far as how you should connect your amps, there is no denying that I am a purest looking for a piece of wire with gain. That being said lets take a look at the TSX system.

In the HU like any HU there is a ADC, DSP and a DAC so if your source is CD, or XM or IPOD the digital media is converted to analog and sent to the ADC for conversion back to digital, once digital the signal passed through the DSP where the tone vol and bal control take place. From the DSP the signal goes to the DAC and converted back to analog. The signal then is buffered and sent over a balanced line to the external amp.

The external amp passes the front and rear signals through various amp and filter stages to produce a separate channels and frequency response for each driver (8 total). Each channel goes to a standard car audio output chip that adds THD and other distortions.

If you decide at this point to grab the speaker lines out of the amp directly to your new equipment then you are stuck with the tailored response of the factory amp. If you decide on a clean sweep or other device then your audio goes through another ADC DSP and DAC process and the clean sweep will try to add back what the factory amp took out increasing the noise floor. If you try to sum the outputs of the factory amp you will have some frequencies reduced and others artificially enhanced because of phase shifts through the filters in the amp.

The bottom line is, for the best possible sound ditch the factory amp and go with a balanced line to your setup. If you decide after that that you want more control of the sound then go with a good EQ.

For my money, good class A/B and the simpler the better.

Jeff

 

Waynester, there's a kicker 08zx700.5 for $269 at sonicelectronix.com. It's a five channel hybrid amp. Class a/b to power the front and rears, and a class D to power the sub. You can use the factory amp to power the front center. As far as speakers, that is best suited to personal tastes. I like Boston Acoustics, but there are so many good choices it's hard to recommend one. But sonic has great deals on speakers too. Whatever brand you decide on try to find an authorized dealer who will match prices. I found a BA dealer who will match sonic's prices so I can get the full 2 yr warranty and don't have to worry about shipping stuff back in case something happens.

 

Waynester, I was thinking you had a TL, so you don't have to worry about the front center channel. You really don't need it on the TL either unless you have the navi, the cc is where the voice commands come from.

 

canyoncruiser,

Thanks for the reco on the Kicker amp. Never thought of a "hybrid" amp. I always thought a separate amp for the sub was the best scenario. I will definitely look into it. Seems like a great solution given the limited space in the trunk of this car (TSX). I still want the trunk to be as funcitonal as possible.

Thanks