Okay guys, I've posted this in all the forums to get this post noticed. I have been talking with Ohio Generator, who are the same people that do the alternators and power systems for Rockford Fosgate, and we have discussed the issues and options dealing with an Acura TL power system. First the background, then the problem, then the options, then the chosen solution. Skip to whatever part you care about...

Background:
The alternator is the source of power for your car, and thus for your car electronics, be they stock (ignition, navi, HID lights) or aftermarket (amps, screens, headunits). A common misconception is that the battery is the main source of power, a second that capacitors store power like batteries and will boost the systems available power. In a large car audio system, specifically ones with large bass systems, every time the bass beat hits, current is immediately demanded by the amplifiers, so that a power curve for a techno song may look like a graph of a bunch of crashing waves (spike, valley, spike, valley). Now, assuming that your total draw is less than your total power input, then you may have voltage drops, which occur when the amplifiers demand a lot of power quickly and the car power system can't supply it fast enough. Upgrading your battery may allieviate this to some extent, but the main solution is capacitors...which store and release small amounts of charge quickly, releasing when the amps demand it and recharging when they don't. This smoothes out the peak and valley graph of voltage spikes.

Problem:
So say your sound system actually draws more power than your alternator puts out? No battery replacement or capacitor can help you here...you have to upgrade your alternator.

Options:
There are three main options, (1) Add a second alternator, (2) Upgrade a small case alternator to a large case alternator, and (3) rewind the current alternator.

(1) Is impossible on our cars. Unfortunately, as I have told 96TL, japanese made cars also leave Japanese sized extra space...so upgrading from a small case (120A nominal output) to a large case (180A nominal output) is also impossible. So that leaves us with solution (3) rewind the current alternator.

Solution:
I have spoken extensively with Ohio Generator...and we have (after much difficulty) isolated the exact model alternator that is in the 2002 Acura TL's and TL-S's, and they are able to be rewound to 180A high output capacity. What is rewinding? Well, an electric motor works by generating current in coils that wrap around the axle of the motor, allowing the current to alternate direction. This creates a magnetic field which drives the axle. Basically the reverse is used in an electric generator, such as the alternator. Assuming a fixed rotational speed, as in alternators...by wrapping more and tighter coils, usually or a material with higher conductivity, an increased output can be achieved.

Now, with that in mind, Ohio Generator is stating that the total cost of the alternator upgrade will be $300-$400, and as I said before can be rewound to 180 Amps. All that is required of you is to remove the entire alternator assembly (not too difficult and I can provide the instructions they provide me). They said if need be they can have a 24 hour turnaround. This is preliminary...but I will be able to iron it all out by Monday or Tuesday...I know I will do it whether anyone else here wants to or not...seeing as my system at max draw is 220 amps with the computer added in. 96TL and digitalgm have expressed interest as well. For anyone who wants to do this because they are having, or are going to have, problems powering their systems from our pathetic alternators, this is the right way to go. Don't worry, there'll be no loss of HP or anything trying to drive the alternator, just more current from the alternator.

I'm only doing this once myself, so I'm only going to list this once. Anyone interested speak now, or good luck finding your own alternator upgrade company. I am hoping but not guaranteeing that they will give a better deal if I can get a lot of people with the same type of alternator to do this. Even if I don't get a better price, this is your only chance without doing a lot of work and research yourself. I will say as a warning though, if we do send in a lot of alternators I doubt they'll have a 24 hour turn around for all of us. I would imagine one week however would be sufficient. I will however make sure they do it in a first come first serve basis...aka I am first, 96TL is second, digitalgm is third...whoever replies next is fourth and so on. 96TL and I want this to be over with in the next two weeks, so hurry up and let me know if you're interested, and I will add updates to this thread as I get them...and I will close out the list when it's time to give them a final count. So post away

Austin519

 

Note:
I need to check with Acura and OG about the models for previous Acura's as well, and the CL's...possibly we may be able to do a large case upgrade on older gens and CL's...unfortunately I think the 2002 TLS's only solution is the one I stated. But before I do any more phone tag with Ohio Generator and Acura, I want to know who would be interested, then I'll find out your alternator model number, possible upgrades etc. So list the model of car that you want to upgrade in here and I'll go find out. And of course I'll list the price.

Austin519

 

So at what point do we need to upgrade our alternator? I'm currently in the process of putting together a system and the maximum amount of power will be about 1,000 watts or 83 amps. Wouldn't a 1 farad cap be enough for me or should I be thinking about an alternator upgrade? Thanks in advance.

 

Master G is right about installing caps in large systems. That will help the large voltage drops during bass transitions. My system in my ES used to be real bad them I slapped in two 1 farad P/G caps and it helped out. Install them close to your amps 12V feeds and make sure they are grounded good. I would do this before spending major $$$$ for a alternator upgrade.

 

Master-G:
"So at what point do we need to upgrade our alternator? I'm currently in the process of putting together a system and the maximum amount of power will be about 1,000 watts or 83 amps."

Honestly, I have yet to find out the EXACT current draw from the car electronics stock in our cars....however I can tell you you're getting dangerously close to that 120A mark with 83A+electronics. My own system was easy to tell seeing as how it's 220A. Assuming you are safely under (10A or more under) the 120A, you should be alright...any more and no, you'll need a new one, or you'll just get weird voltage drops at times.

valuetl:
"Master G is right about installing caps in large systems. That will help the large voltage drops during bass transitions."

I suggest you read the problem statement I had above...when you draw close to or over what your alternator puts out you can put 50 caps in there, and it will not help you. Master G asked a Q about caps, he didn't make a statement, and rightfully so. During peak current draw a cap will definitely help voltage drops, but that is only assuming you have enough power to supply to the capacitors when the beat drops, and assuming that you don't have long spurts of bass response without pause...in either of those cases a cap will discharge and you will be left with nothing. Hence the need for an alternator upgrade.

People who just have dimmed lights or whatnot but are nowhere near drawing 120A don't need this, they need capacitors, but of course, that's not who this thread is for either...

Austin519

 

I disagree that you are drawing that much current with a modest 1000 watt system. Maybe a SPL system but not what your running. If you were drawing 220 amps your car would be totally dead!!!!

 

Well I have 1 RF 1100A2 into 2 RF Power DVCs, 1 RF 75.2, 5 Tvs, DVD, Power inverter, HID headlights & fogs and my idle drops VERY bad. So I think I have reached the mark. When I come to a stop the idle drop makes my car hop. I am down for this ASAP. My car probably has a different alternator than the new gen TL, do you think this is a problem?

 

valuetl:
"I disagree that you are drawing that much current with a modest 1000 watt system. Maybe a SPL system but not what your running. If you were drawing 220 amps your car would be totally dead!!!!"

Hmm...not sure I understand your thread. A 1000W class a/b amp definitely has the ability to draw 83 amps, although that's the max factory rating and you will most likely never reach it...my RF 800a2 Power series amps draw max 80A apiece...and yes I have reached that...so don't be surprised . SPL or SQ or SQL system...that makes no difference...raw draw for whatever it's used for makes the difference valuetl.

As for me...you're right...220 A on a stock alternator = dead car.
Hence my getting the alternator upgrade...800W+800W+400W+400W+160W+400W computer...that's your 220A right there.

Austin519

 

96TL:
You having a first gen shouldn't be a problem at all. I'm going to check with Acura Monday or Tuesday and find out all the model number alternators...I would assume the first gens all have the same, and the second gens all have the same...the alternator is rarely changed. Guess I could just ask Wayne and Jens. I'll give you an update...

Austin519

 

Hey Austin I noticed something else about my amp problem tonight. If I lose alot of bass like I was telling you about, I can make it come back by turning the subwoofer level on the headunit all the way up and turning up the volume. It will still have little bass for a few beats and then all the sudden it pounds! Any ideas now what it can be? Maybe its a bad RCA cable? When I used to touch the RCA cables on the amp the subs used to move and make a loud thump. Any ideas?

 

96TL:
"If I lose alot of bass like I was telling you about, I can make it come back by turning the subwoofer level on the headunit all the way up and turning up the volume. It will still have little bass for a few beats and then all the sudden it pounds! Any ideas now what it can be? Maybe its a bad RCA cable? When I used to touch the RCA cables on the amp the subs used to move and make a loud thump. Any ideas?"

Hmmm...okay...well you'll have to describe how you have everything wired in detail first and foremost, because without that I can't really say too much more. However, having bass that intermittently hits hard sounds like one of two things...either a power problem or a wiring problem. Power problem wise...it could be your amp reacting to a power drop. Wiring wise, you either have crossed wires or you're grounding out the input lines somewhere. Check your wiring from the HU up to the amp, make sure there are no cuts in it, and the insulation is solid. Make sure the wires are solidly attached to the HU and amp. Also, the RCA cables may very well be bad, seeing as the connectors on the end are nothing but soldered on...so it's very possible. Your best bet is to debug like I do...hook up a cd player to your amp with rca's and play it...then hook up another amp to it...etc etc...isolate where it's coming from, and work from there.

Lastly, when you touched the RCA cables on the amp, I assume you mean the casing, the casing is grounded so you're grounding it...so yeah there's a quick burst of power, and then silence, in short...don't do that

Austin519

 

Do you think getting a smaller pulley on the alternator will give more power?

 

96TL:

Very good Q. Hmmm...and I think I got this backwards when I told someone else...I think it was Crzy Acura I told totally wrong, but yeah the larger the pulley the more distance it has to cover in one rotation on the belt...and as the size decreases (say starting at infinity and going to 0 diameter) the speed of the rotation of the alternator axle approaches that of the belt, and should generate more power...however you have to think about how much the alternator can actually handle in terms of the electrical components...but I will ask the guys...

Austin519

 

Okay guys...it's getting ready to be time to ship these off...I talked with the owner oh Ohio Generator, and he said there would be a definite discount for a group purchase, as well as a discount for using our alternator casing (he priced giving us a new one). The final price I don't know yet, but it will be less than what I quoted originally, and lower for the more people we get to do it. So I guess we have to decide whether to do it now or hold off to try to get more interested for a lower price.

I have heard these people at least speak of upgrading:
CarFreak,DigitalGM,ZodiakTL,96TL.

Plus me makes 5. This is a one time thing, as I don't want to play phone tag again, and will have no reason to after I upgrade mine. 96TL since you and I are the main ones wanting this I suggest you go out and ask people as well...I'm gonna run over to the CL forum and ask them.

Ah, and I was told by a guy at the CL forum of people who sold 180A alternators for $160-$180 (on eBay). After talking with both Wrangler and Ohio Generator I heard that they were a couple guys who everyone in the industry hated, and who produced shoddy stuff with no real warranty, and they'd crap out after 4 months or so...so beware. Anyway, POST HERE NOW if you want to be included, once I close this it's over.

Austin519

 

OK. I'm ready to ship when you are. So you think its gonna cost less than $400? Thats good. Anyway, I dont really know any Acura people but I'll try get some more people. Truthfully, I would rather do this now than wait. I have no patience and I've been meaning to do this for the longest time. Plus if its under $400 its already a good price so I say lets go for it. BTW, these alternators will be covered under warranty?

 

96TL:
Yeah I agree...and yes I believe it will be under $400...I think even for two people it will be. Plus we're using our own alternators, not getting new ones...I'm talking with Tom again tomorrow, and I'll get everything set down. Here's the great thing about this. They offer a 1 year warranty on their alternators, after that it's pretty small service charge to get them fixed ($50?) and then they warranty that for a year. They said they have the longest warranties in the industry, and they've only gotten a few returns (like 2% of all they put out) which were the customer's fault...but they said the warranty is no questions asked. Aka you can stick a screwdriver in the alternator (what Gus, my other guy, said) and they'll take it back. Not only that, but if the service fee is big to get them fixed, you can just take it back to Acura and they'll warranty it (you can't tell the difference really, aside from the pulley which you can put the OEM back on). And depending on how cheap this turns out to be that may be a better solution. Either way it sounds like a pretty solid deal. Again, I'll let you know when I talk to em.

Austin519

 

I would get it done if the price is around 200..

 

OK so you think you reached the maximum amperage whatever it is. How did you come to that. It is very simple to test. First off for such a HIGH current system you have what gauge cables are you running both power and grounds. Have you upgraded your factory grounds from the battery???? The simple test is get a good fluke with a clamp on ampmeter and place it around all your power cables. Start at the battery cable coming off your battery to your system. Then test each individual amp power cable to see how much current draw you have during heavy bass transitions. No amp draws max current all the time. Plus your full range amps do not draw full rated power all the time. I could see sub amps but no way mid/tweet amps. Also 96TL needs to check his amp gains to see if they are set properly.

 

valuetl:

Note: I edited this in afterwards...sorry if I sound cross...I just notice every post you've made here is disagreeing with me, and as this post is for people who are interested in an alternator rewind, not people who want to argue about it, I got rather angry. If you would like a more formal electronics discussion feel free to email me at Austin519@aol.com..but understand, I have been talking with people I know up at JL and Rockford Fosgate about all this for months.

Post:
Sounds like you're a naysayer...and I knew we'd have a naysayer in the group. Let's address this piece by piece, but keep in mind 1st gen TL alternators output 100A, second gen 120A:

"OK so you think you reached the maximum amperage whatever it is. How did you come to that."

I easily came to that conclusion valuetl because my system, especially in competition mode, will draw about 60A from each 800W amp, 40A from each 400W amp, and 20A from the 160W amp. That is real time draw at peak. In addition to that, I have about 50A of constant draw from separate components, then you have to factor in ignition system draw, HIDs, interior lights etc etc...and you get my grand total of WAY over 120A. That's how I concluded this.

"It is very simple to test. First off for such a HIGH current system you have what gauge cables are you running both power and grounds. Have you upgraded your factory grounds from the battery???? The simple test is get a good fluke with a clamp on ampmeter and place it around all your power cables. Start at the battery cable coming off your battery to your system. Then test each individual amp power cable to see how much current draw you have during heavy bass transitions. No amp draws max current all the time. Plus your full range amps do not draw full rated power all the time. I could see sub amps but no way mid/tweet amps."

Obviously ValueTL you will need to upgrade the factory grounding when installing a high current system. That's rather standard. I plan on adding two 4 gauge power grounds in my engine bay to the holes that were conveniently left when I removed the factory res. I also plan to run a 2 ga wire back to the rear. I've told 96TL to do the same. The factory wiring should be fine for a factory alternator also. Because with 96TL's factory 100A alternator...assuming a 30A draw from all the car electronics, the factory grounding should be able to accomodate less than 70A. Also a much better test than yours if you're looking for max draw, is to just use a multimeter with a max capability...and hook it into your battery ground, set it on max A, then run your stereo at full blast, at WOT, with all your lights and internal electronics on. Do that for an entire day. When you are done for the day, you will have the max realistic draw you will ever achieve. But why is this method, and your method, not very good? Because it's still not a worst-case...is only a worse-encountered case, so you really don't know the worst possible case...that's why you would have to really get in, hook up a resistive load to each amp, feed it a square wave of frequency dead between its cutoffs, and measure it's max draw, and you would have to do this for every single amp. Instead, I would rather go with the factory specs. Also, you have it backwards, amps powering higher range are much more likely to stay at max draw than subs...why? Because there are bass beats not treble beats. Your 100Hz-20kHz is a much more constant value than your 20Hz-100Hz. That is why people who have huge bass systems need capacitors, because of the short timespan bursts in power draw from the bass beat. On the other hand, your high end setup will draw more constant power...not as MUCH mind you, but more constant. Don't believe me? Go use a nice multimeter, put it on delta (step change) and measure the change in current. Or just record the max and min values. You'll see. If you ever max a system out with just higher end, you will without a doubt need a new alternator...whereas if it's just bass you MAY squeak by with capacitors.

"Also 96TL needs to check his amp gains to see if they are set properly."

I would assume he has already played with the controls on the amp...however if he's getting dimming lights, with a capacitor in, with it wired in properly, then even if the gains are set all the way up he still has a problem (assuming he wants to run the system at 75%), because once you get close to the max draw on the amp, any big fluctuations in the car electronics system's draw, or a large bass beat, will draw too much again.

By the way valuetl...this thread is for people interested in rewinding their alternators...not people who want to argue with if it's necessary or not.

Cheers,
Austin519

 

Well, you know I am in.... just reminding you.

AdamR

 

Hehe. This is getting interesting....

BTW, the gains on my amp are only about 1/3 of the way up. That should have nothing to do with my bass problem though. I think its the RCA cables. I'm waiting until I get a new 1100A2 to check it ouy. Hey Austin, any news on that yet?

 

96TL:
Unfortunately yes, there is news...and it's bad. I talked again to Gus my guy (not Tom the owner). Tom is busy today for some reason or other. Basically I was told wrong in two cases, one good one bad. First I was told that we could reuse our existing casing and that the price of $400 would go down as a result. The story has in fact changed, I think just because Gus wasn't clear. In fact, we may be getting a whole new alternator...new pulley, new casing, new insides. We have our stock alternator and nothing gets done to it. So basically we're buying a second alternator. That's why the price is so high. However, he did say it would go down with a group...I STILL need to talk to Tom...and unfortunately I don't think that's going to happen until Monday...so I'm going to have to wait until then. Possibly Tuesday if they're closed for MLK. So tentatively I'm going to say next weekend we'll send our parts off (if in fact they even need our alternator...which it no longer sounds like they do since we're getting a new one). So expect less than $400...how much...I don't know.

Austin519

 

Thats not bad new at all. I would rather keep my stock alternator the way it is and replace it. I think the only bad news there is that we have to wait another week. My price limit is $400 so thats okay. Plus we save on shipping one way at least.

 

96TL:
Yeah well...it was a bit of bad news for me...as my price limit isn't that high But I just got $1500 from a scholarship so I should be ok. We don't really have to wait 96TL...I just thought it may be good since I have heard from practically no one on this. Jens (of Park Ave. Acura) said that he would alert some of his TL and TLS guys about this offer, and of course we know digitalgm (Adam) is doing it. Crzy Acura I guess you're out...since it's double the price you were looking for. I haven't heard all that much else really. ZodiakTL I have heard nothing from...so I guess he's out as well. So that's three of us . I think I'd rather wait until next week to purchase, possibly saving some cash (though if we don't save much don't be mad at me!) instead of doing it now. I will bother them pretty bad until I get some answers.

Austin519

 

OK. Let me know when you're ready. Have you gotten a turn around time for the alternators? Also, how do we pay for them? COD, PayPal, money order, credit card? I would like COD but I'll use my credit card if necessary.

 

Hey Austin,

I may be interested in this. Sorry for the late reply. I have been soo busy since getting back from CES. I just read this thread now

Let me know if there is still time for me to do this.

I am just not sure if 180A will be enough. Is that the largest one they (OG) said would fit in our cars without modding?

Thanks

Bryan

 

I was wondering the same thing. Is 180A all they can do for $400 or is that all they can do for our cars period? I guess its still better than stock though.

 

96TL and autophile1:
Yeah I know...a 60A increase for second gens (from 120A) and a 80A increase for first gens (from 100A) isn't as much as one would hope. I will ask again just to make sure for you guys...but I've talked to 3 diff/ manufacturers, and basically this is how it goes...there are two ways to make the alternator output higher. The first, get a smaller pulley on the alternator...the second, rewind the alternator tighter. Now, they're already placing on this new alternator the smallest pulley in the industry. So that's maxed out. On top of that there are two case sizes, large case and small case. Large cases allow room for more windings, but will NOT fit in our cars, period. So we're stuck with a small case. Why they aren't rewinding OUR alternators and using our cases, as I was told, is that they wind them more than would fit in our cases. So they have custom machined cases which their windings go in...and basically is the largest that will fit in our cars. To give you a bit of reference...go look at your alternator. The one they're sending us is about 3/4" larger diameter and 3/4" longer. You'll see how cramped that will be. So unfortunately no, this is all we can get. An avenue I can try to explore if you guys wish is them sponsoring us...aka we put stickers on our cars advertising them (like you see on most other cars, though the ricers put them on voluntarily) and they give us a discount. We WILL receive a discount for a groupbuy. How much again I don't know, and I'm going to have to wait till fricking Tuesday to find out. Yes, I am ticked off at them for making me wait more. 96TL, if it's any consolation look at it this way...it's a 80% increase in output for your car, and a 50% increase for us.

Austin519
p.s. - autophile1, you are definitely interested?

 

Hehe. I'll sport a sticker for a discount . j/k. Anyway, yeah I guess you're right about that. 100A to 180A should be a huge difference. Let me know the exact price when you know. I'm pretty much ready to do this. Did they say how long until we'll receive them?

 

96TL:
Yep...tell me man, since you seem to be by far the most anxious of the group...how late can you wait? I talked to Jens about getting a few of his customers into this groupbuy...so well I figure that'd be a good 3-4 people or so...and the more we wait the stronger our discount (and my bargaining chips). So well tell me how late you can wait man, because as late as you can is best...aka end of next week.

Austin519

 

The end of next week is fine. Actually I really meant how long after the date we order them do we have to wait? These guys still have to build these thing right?

 

Austin,

If that is seriously the highest output option, I am in. I had no idea that the best we could do would be 180A. Now I wish I went with a couple of Class D amps. That Brax is a monster...

Bryan

 

autophile1:

"Austin,

If that is seriously the highest output option, I am in. I had no idea that the best we could do would be 180A. Now I wish I went with a couple of Class D amps. That Brax is a monster...
Bryan"

I know man, unforunately that's what it is...and ha YOU wish you went with some class D's???? I have 5 friggin amps my friend...this should be a fun experience . We'll see. How much draw is yours? I can actually get by on my system...just realize for competition SPL you'll want to cut out your fill...and for SQ you aren't going to turn it all the way up...

Austin519

 

96TL:
"The end of next week is fine. Actually I really meant how long after the date we order them do we have to wait? These guys still have to build these thing right?"

See that's the thing...when I called in for my own, complaining that if I sent in my alternator, I couldn't use my car. He said "don't worry, we have a 24 hour turnaround". So that means I send it off on day 1, they get it day 2, finish it and ship it back day 3, I get it day 4. That's the worst case scenario for a 24 hour turnaround. Now however I am confused, because if they're giving us a replacement alternator, why would they need our current ones? So we may not have to ship them at all. These are the kind of things that I wanted to ask them and that are really pissing me off. But I will find out Tuesday.

Austin519

 

OK. One more question and its not about alternators. How high should I keep the gain on my amps? I have the subs in a sealed box and the headunit has 6.5 volt pre out RCA's. I have the gain set at about 1/3 up on both amps. Do you think this is enough? Maybe 1/2 way for the subs and all the way down for the highs?

 

96TL:
Set it wherever you want...but not more than about 75% or so. Over that leads to premature aging of the amp (for most amps) and higher distortion. This is a round estimate...it differs from amp to amp.

Austin519

 

Here, read this:

http://www.mobileaudio.com/rac-faq/rac-faq_5.html#SEC90

Bryan

 

The Helix HXA 400 MKII draws a max of 50 amps, and the Brax draws a max of 220amps. It doesn't have fuses just circuit breakers!

I will not be running it at full tilt though, I will be using my amps in the following way:

Helix HXA 400 MKII: stereo 65wrms x 4

Platinum: A very underrated (as I am told) stereo 250w x 2 rms + bridged mode 450w rms x 2.

Bryan


QUOTE]Originally posted by Austin519
autophile1:

"Austin,

If that is seriously the highest output option, I am in. I had no idea that the best we could do would be 180A. Now I wish I went with a couple of Class D amps. That Brax is a monster...
Bryan"

I know man, unforunately that's what it is...and ha YOU wish you went with some class D's???? I have 5 friggin amps my friend...this should be a fun experience . We'll see. How much draw is yours? I can actually get by on my system...just realize for competition SPL you'll want to cut out your fill...and for SQ you aren't going to turn it all the way up...

Austin519 [/QUOTE]

 

autophile1:
"The Helix HXA 400 MKII draws a max of 50 amps, and the Brax draws a max of 220amps. It doesn't have fuses just circuit breakers!"

Yeah when I heard you say Brax I was afraid as much in your case Those platinums are absolute monsters, but are beautiful . Seems I spend all my money on the components, and you spend all yours on the amps. Ya know, they still do make some really sweet sounding 100% analog setups...blow any of this solid state stuff away! Heh...but yeah 220 draw is gonna be a bit rough on you. Not much to suggest there man...good luck.

And as for that FAQ you posted...hah I'd think that's kind of a Duh type thing I mean, in simple terms an amp just takes a wave and bumps it's amplitude up a factor. And all you're doing is throwing in a square wave and seeing when it distorts it by looking at it. The problem with the faq is this part "until you just start to notice distortion on the output ". Unfortunately it doesn't work like that...you don't just twist it and then "oh hey, distortion". You toss a square wave in there, and you'll notice distortion on the graph from the start, it's just how bad of distortion to accept...that's the difficult part. The same is true when you "listen for distortion". In the end with no oscilloscope I'd just call the manufacturer and ask them the maximum settings keeping within their measured THD. Sadly, I actually test all my equipment with an oscilloscope...as well as a few other things...pitiful if you ask me But well that's the world of a computer engineer...forever a dork.

Austin519

 

"Yeah when I heard you say Brax I was afraid as much in your case Those platinums are absolute monsters, but are beautiful . Seems I spend all my money on the components, and you spend all yours on the amps. Ya know, they still do make some really sweet sounding 100% analog setups...blow any of this solid state stuff away! Heh...but yeah 220 draw is gonna be a bit rough on you. Not much to suggest there man...good luck."


Yeah, I bought my amps last. I kept thinking man I am spending too much on my speakers, subs and deck... but then I sold my old McIntosh MC4000M and bought that Platinum and it made everything else seem OK


"And as for that FAQ you posted...hah I'd think that's kind of a Duh type thing I mean, in simple terms an amp just takes a wave and bumps it's amplitude up a factor. And all you're doing is throwing in a square wave and seeing when it distorts it by looking at it. The problem with the faq is this part "until you just start to notice distortion on the output ". Unfortunately it doesn't work like that...you don't just twist it and then "oh hey, distortion". You toss a square wave in there, and you'll notice distortion on the graph from the start, it's just how bad of distortion to accept...that's the difficult part. The same is true when you "listen for distortion". In the end with no oscilloscope I'd just call the manufacturer and ask them the maximum settings keeping within their measured THD. Sadly, I actually test all my equipment with an oscilloscope...as well as a few other things...pitiful if you ask me But well that's the world of a computer engineer...forever a dork."

agreed, however, the FAQ was written for the regular joe. A lot of people who want to just "tweak" their system a little probably doesn't even know how to use an oscilloscope. It is hard to just call the manufacturer and ask for measured THD, for one it is most likely a joke rating anyway, and two, it doesn't really take into account for the other components within each individual system. So I still stick with the way the FAQ suggests tuning is perfect for a beginner to intermediate user (but I bet you will try to change my mind though ) I hear you on the "forever a dork" part, Electronics Engineer here


Bryan

Austin519 [/B][/QUOTE]