Alignment Results Discussion
09-20-2018, 12:47 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Alignment Results Discussion
I finally got my car aligned after installing Tein Stret Advance coilovers and SPC rear control arms (3 arms per side). I attached my alignment results and was wondering if I should go back and have them readjust rear toe or front camber and caster (if they are even adjustable).
Last edited by Sheefo2k; 09-20-2018 at 12:51 PM.
09-20-2018, 12:59 PM
#2
Senior Moderator
Can't see nothin.
If toe isn't zero, i'd get them to do that. Camber and caster aren't adjustable stock but not sure if the SPC arms make them adjustable
If toe isn't zero, i'd get them to do that. Camber and caster aren't adjustable stock but not sure if the SPC arms make them adjustable
09-20-2018, 02:35 PM
#5
Instructor
Thread Starter
Car drives fine.
Pre-suspension and on stock ride height:
I got an alignment done in December 2017 because the car was pulling to left and continued to pull left after the alignment. Long story short, the dealership blamed it on the tires.
Post-suspension and lowered:
After the current alignment the car slightly pulls to the right, I think this is due to the tires which I just put back on before the alignment. I might have moved the front left to the right side which would explain the pull to the right vs the previous left.
I was rocking a set of 18" summer wheels but I wanted the alignment done on the stock 17s.
Pre-suspension and on stock ride height:
I got an alignment done in December 2017 because the car was pulling to left and continued to pull left after the alignment. Long story short, the dealership blamed it on the tires.
Post-suspension and lowered:
After the current alignment the car slightly pulls to the right, I think this is due to the tires which I just put back on before the alignment. I might have moved the front left to the right side which would explain the pull to the right vs the previous left.
I was rocking a set of 18" summer wheels but I wanted the alignment done on the stock 17s.
09-20-2018, 02:48 PM
#6
Senior Moderator
Meh, looks "good enough" But your guy doesn't seem like the type to go above and beyond to ensure perfect results.
1. I have a guy that will zero toe out even if it means going back and forth multiple times. If factory range is 0.00 to 0.16, he will put it smack dab in .08.
2. the date in his system is 3.5 years old
But like I said, it's close enough, i personally think alignment should be something someone very meticulous should do but I'm borderline OCD so..
1. I have a guy that will zero toe out even if it means going back and forth multiple times. If factory range is 0.00 to 0.16, he will put it smack dab in .08.
2. the date in his system is 3.5 years old
But like I said, it's close enough, i personally think alignment should be something someone very meticulous should do but I'm borderline OCD so..
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09-20-2018, 03:21 PM
#8
Instructor
Thread Starter
Meh, looks "good enough" But your guy doesn't seem like the type to go above and beyond to ensure perfect results.
1. I have a guy that will zero toe out even if it means going back and forth multiple times. If factory range is 0.00 to 0.16, he will put it smack dab in .08.
2. the date in his system is 3.5 years old
But like I said, it's close enough, i personally think alignment should be something someone very meticulous should do but I'm borderline OCD so..
1. I have a guy that will zero toe out even if it means going back and forth multiple times. If factory range is 0.00 to 0.16, he will put it smack dab in .08.
2. the date in his system is 3.5 years old
But like I said, it's close enough, i personally think alignment should be something someone very meticulous should do but I'm borderline OCD so..
B. I too have OCD, hence making this thread. The way I look at it is that I paid for an alignment and it should be as good as possible. I will probably go back sometime next week for more adjustment and bug them until they get it right.
Thanks
09-20-2018, 03:37 PM
#9
SPC has a video on how to properly set the arms. Even that is vague.
Basically, you want to use the setback arm length to relax the bushing bind that's caused by changing the other geometry. You'd need to find the differential equation that relates all 3 arms and then set the setback arm so that the factory amount of bumpsteer is achieved. Which is partly why Acura only made 1 arm only slightly adjustable.
Most simple thing to remember is to keep it so the setback arm length does not cause an un-natural bind of the rest of the spindle/arm bushings.
Acura uses passive rear steering. They design the arm lengths so that X amount of toe occurs for Y amount of camber and Z amount of fore/aft arc (setback). The wheel moves in 3 directions simultaneously along some related curve that some nerd figured was advantageous for stability and control and tire wear and comfort etc.
Its good to remember to be reasonable, though.
A regular shop isn't obligated to do anything except the factory adjustment.
The cost of a "specialty" alignment is quite high. If your expectations are high, you realistically should be prepared to pay more than the standard.
Sometimes, a regular shop will accomodate your request, based on the talent of their tech, and their workload that day, as well as other factors.
A chain shop likely doesn't specialise in certain make of car. The factory adjustment is outlined for the tech. The SPC adjustment is not.
A psychologist gets paid enough to deal with OCD. A chain shop really doesn't. Know what I mean?
They got it in the green even though the adjustment was not outlined. And there's nothing wrong with your alignment.
FWIW, you should align the car with the wheels/tyres you actually plan to use.
Also FWIW, if you think that looking at this alignment is some sort of mental torture...consider that the alignment shifted the minute they took it off the rack.
I also hope all the bushings were clocked during your install. Otherwise you will have MASSIVE changes as the bushings start to tear in a month or so.
You're aligning a street car with rubber bushings. What is "alignment perfection" really worth?
Basically, you want to use the setback arm length to relax the bushing bind that's caused by changing the other geometry. You'd need to find the differential equation that relates all 3 arms and then set the setback arm so that the factory amount of bumpsteer is achieved. Which is partly why Acura only made 1 arm only slightly adjustable.
Most simple thing to remember is to keep it so the setback arm length does not cause an un-natural bind of the rest of the spindle/arm bushings.
Acura uses passive rear steering. They design the arm lengths so that X amount of toe occurs for Y amount of camber and Z amount of fore/aft arc (setback). The wheel moves in 3 directions simultaneously along some related curve that some nerd figured was advantageous for stability and control and tire wear and comfort etc.
Its good to remember to be reasonable, though.
A regular shop isn't obligated to do anything except the factory adjustment.
The cost of a "specialty" alignment is quite high. If your expectations are high, you realistically should be prepared to pay more than the standard.
Sometimes, a regular shop will accomodate your request, based on the talent of their tech, and their workload that day, as well as other factors.
A chain shop likely doesn't specialise in certain make of car. The factory adjustment is outlined for the tech. The SPC adjustment is not.
A psychologist gets paid enough to deal with OCD. A chain shop really doesn't. Know what I mean?
They got it in the green even though the adjustment was not outlined. And there's nothing wrong with your alignment.
FWIW, you should align the car with the wheels/tyres you actually plan to use.
Also FWIW, if you think that looking at this alignment is some sort of mental torture...consider that the alignment shifted the minute they took it off the rack.
I also hope all the bushings were clocked during your install. Otherwise you will have MASSIVE changes as the bushings start to tear in a month or so.
You're aligning a street car with rubber bushings. What is "alignment perfection" really worth?
Last edited by BROlando; 09-20-2018 at 03:44 PM.
09-20-2018, 03:48 PM
#10
To sum up my very boring speech...
Getting it to read green is pretty easy. A chimpanzee can do that.
But getting the arm lengths set so the prescribed amount of rear passive steering happens is NOT easy.
Getting it to read green is pretty easy. A chimpanzee can do that.
But getting the arm lengths set so the prescribed amount of rear passive steering happens is NOT easy.
09-20-2018, 06:26 PM
#11
Senior Moderator
Yeah typical alignments go for about 80 bucks.. but my guy charges 100-110. It's well worth it to me though 
09-20-2018, 10:04 PM
#12
Oh finding a good alignment guy is priceless!
$100-110 isn't bad though.
I didn't mean to make it sound hopeless. I was just answering the question about how/why the adjustment is difficult to get right (though its not hard to get in the green).
Best idea is to adjust as little as possible. Some negative camber isn't the end of the world.
And less than a half degree isn't worth anything tangible.
But a regular repair shop may choose to argue that the alignment is in the green already....and they kind of have a point.
Initial setup of those arms is key. SPC has a great YouTube video on doing so.
After that...minimal adjustment is best, IMO. Trying to zero out camber isn't going to make the car drive that well.
Check out the SPC video, OP.
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