Type S C&D Lightning Lap
#41
Burning Brakes
That's silly. Was it maybe the only one they had and it was on the show-room floor?
Our Acura dealer let us take-out (alone, for an hour or so) a 2021 TLX Tech and another time ... the 2021 TLX Advance. The TLX Type-S wasn't released yet when we were shopping.
At our Audi dealer, they let you drive whatever car you want. RS5, R8, whatever. However, if it is on show-room floor they prefer you make an appointment thru your salesman. Or, if it's in back (huge, multi-level parking-garage) ... they like to wash it for you first. Of course, you only do that if said car is on your "short list" (no use wasting everyones time).
Really just posting for others to read as I'm sure your BMW dealer gives customers similar treatment.
Our Acura dealer let us take-out (alone, for an hour or so) a 2021 TLX Tech and another time ... the 2021 TLX Advance. The TLX Type-S wasn't released yet when we were shopping.
At our Audi dealer, they let you drive whatever car you want. RS5, R8, whatever. However, if it is on show-room floor they prefer you make an appointment thru your salesman. Or, if it's in back (huge, multi-level parking-garage) ... they like to wash it for you first. Of course, you only do that if said car is on your "short list" (no use wasting everyones time).
Really just posting for others to read as I'm sure your BMW dealer gives customers similar treatment.
#42
Safety Car
Thread Starter
That's silly. Was it maybe the only one they had and it was on the show-room floor?
Our Acura dealer let us take-out (alone, for an hour or so) a 2021 TLX Tech and another time ... the 2021 TLX Advance. The TLX Type-S wasn't released yet when we were shopping.
At our Audi dealer, they let you drive whatever car you want. RS5, R8, whatever. However, if it is on show-room floor they prefer you make an appointment thru your salesman. Or, if it's in back (huge, multi-level parking-garage) ... they like to wash it for you first. Of course, you only do that if said car is on your "short list" (no use wasting everyones time).
Really just posting for others to read as I'm sure your BMW dealer gives customers similar treatment.
Our Acura dealer let us take-out (alone, for an hour or so) a 2021 TLX Tech and another time ... the 2021 TLX Advance. The TLX Type-S wasn't released yet when we were shopping.
At our Audi dealer, they let you drive whatever car you want. RS5, R8, whatever. However, if it is on show-room floor they prefer you make an appointment thru your salesman. Or, if it's in back (huge, multi-level parking-garage) ... they like to wash it for you first. Of course, you only do that if said car is on your "short list" (no use wasting everyones time).
Really just posting for others to read as I'm sure your BMW dealer gives customers similar treatment.
#43
Burning Brakes
A lot of Acura dealerships were asshats that would not let people test drive their DEMO units. See https://acurazine.com/forums/second-...thread-994637/
I would just walk-out. You can keep your little sedan.
#44
Adept Acura Enthusiast
That's silly. Was it maybe the only one they had and it was on the show-room floor?
Our Acura dealer let us take-out (alone, for an hour or so) a 2021 TLX Tech and another time ... the 2021 TLX Advance. The TLX Type-S wasn't released yet when we were shopping.
At our Audi dealer, they let you drive whatever car you want. RS5, R8, whatever. However, if it is on show-room floor they prefer you make an appointment thru your salesman. Or, if it's in back (huge, multi-level parking-garage) ... they like to wash it for you first. Of course, you only do that if said car is on your "short list" (no use wasting everyones time).
Really just posting for others to read as I'm sure your BMW dealer gives customers similar treatment.
Our Acura dealer let us take-out (alone, for an hour or so) a 2021 TLX Tech and another time ... the 2021 TLX Advance. The TLX Type-S wasn't released yet when we were shopping.
At our Audi dealer, they let you drive whatever car you want. RS5, R8, whatever. However, if it is on show-room floor they prefer you make an appointment thru your salesman. Or, if it's in back (huge, multi-level parking-garage) ... they like to wash it for you first. Of course, you only do that if said car is on your "short list" (no use wasting everyones time).
Really just posting for others to read as I'm sure your BMW dealer gives customers similar treatment.
#45
A lot of Acura dealerships were asshats that would not let people test drive their DEMO units. See https://acurazine.com/forums/second-...thread-994637/
One dealer did not give loaners while my car was being worked on but another dealer across town would. This occurred with a previous Acura and BMW. It’s not the car brand but GM and how they handle their dealerships.
#46
Senior Moderator
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MarcoTLX (02-04-2022)
#47
Safety Car
Thread Starter
That is really unfortunate, some GMs are just arghhh and just ruin the experience that could have been provided. I walked in and was able to test drive the Type S with a simple ask and drive it out of the showroom for the test drive. No appointment or financial talk was needed.
One dealer did not give loaners while my car was being worked on but another dealer across town would. This occurred with a previous Acura and BMW. It’s not the car brand but GM and how they handle their dealerships.
One dealer did not give loaners while my car was being worked on but another dealer across town would. This occurred with a previous Acura and BMW. It’s not the car brand but GM and how they handle their dealerships.
Acura could have said something similar: if you don't let people test drive the DEMO cars, you don't get any more to sell. But of course, they didn't because they didn't because reasons. On the flip side, at least now I know which greedy Acura dealerships I'll never do business with, and which one I will.
#48
Senior Moderator
Problem is that Acura corporate didn't tighten the screws on dealerships who wanted to play games like this. I remember when the Hellcats and Demons came out, Dodge publicly announced that dealers who marked them up would receive fewer allocations in the future. Of course, some dealerships still marked them up because they felt the markups made up for the lower volume they'd receive, but anecdotally at least a lot of the dealers I talked to stuck with MSRP, way more than I would have expected.
Acura could have said something similar: if you don't let people test drive the DEMO cars, you don't get any more to sell. But of course, they didn't because they didn't because reasons. On the flip side, at least now I know which greedy Acura dealerships I'll never do business with, and which one I will.
Acura could have said something similar: if you don't let people test drive the DEMO cars, you don't get any more to sell. But of course, they didn't because they didn't because reasons. On the flip side, at least now I know which greedy Acura dealerships I'll never do business with, and which one I will.
#49
AZ Community Team
Let me put your puzzle to a permanent rest once and for all, so you don't need to bring it up ever again.
The 4 cylinder TLX is a 6 sec regular 4-cylinder car, but the Type-S is a 5 sec car with sport tuned suspension and a torquey V6 engine. The latter is one second faster, much better handling capability, and has a killer-looking appearance treatment.
One can easily spend 2x to 3x the difference in MSRPs, between a top-end 4-cylinder (inline-4) car and the Type-S, in modding the top-end inline-4 car, but still not getting the souped-up top-end inline-4 car to achieve the same level of performance as the factory Type-S. So when you say "significant premium" for the Type-S, it is actually a bargain price for the Type-S with such vastly improved level of performance, rattle-free and factory-warranty-covered.
Sure, most TLX-S owners consider speed is important, but never as important as blindly going after 0-60 numbers without taking consideration of other factors such as comfort, equipment level, technology, fun factor, reliability, etc.
Speed has no limit. Is a 5 sec car fast ? There is always a 4 sec car. Is a 4 sec car fast ? There is always a 3 sec car.
One has to know when to stop and be realistic.
Yes, speed is also important, but not the most important. This is why Type-S owners choose the (1 full second) faster and more expensive and more exclusive Type-S trim (as an overall vehicle package) over other inline-4 trims. All these Type-S owners are more than satisfy and happy with their 5 sec car.
The 4 cylinder TLX is a 6 sec regular 4-cylinder car, but the Type-S is a 5 sec car with sport tuned suspension and a torquey V6 engine. The latter is one second faster, much better handling capability, and has a killer-looking appearance treatment.
One can easily spend 2x to 3x the difference in MSRPs, between a top-end 4-cylinder (inline-4) car and the Type-S, in modding the top-end inline-4 car, but still not getting the souped-up top-end inline-4 car to achieve the same level of performance as the factory Type-S. So when you say "significant premium" for the Type-S, it is actually a bargain price for the Type-S with such vastly improved level of performance, rattle-free and factory-warranty-covered.
Sure, most TLX-S owners consider speed is important, but never as important as blindly going after 0-60 numbers without taking consideration of other factors such as comfort, equipment level, technology, fun factor, reliability, etc.
Speed has no limit. Is a 5 sec car fast ? There is always a 4 sec car. Is a 4 sec car fast ? There is always a 3 sec car.
One has to know when to stop and be realistic.
Yes, speed is also important, but not the most important. This is why Type-S owners choose the (1 full second) faster and more expensive and more exclusive Type-S trim (as an overall vehicle package) over other inline-4 trims. All these Type-S owners are more than satisfy and happy with their 5 sec car.
https://acuranews.com/en-US/releases...pe-s-press-kit
Why some people don't understand tiering in car models is a mystery
Acceleration is one thing. Driving feel is elevated with all the chassis, suspension, transmission, brake changes. Why do people buy a Civic Type R or M4 when they can just get bolt installed on an Si or M340i and spend less $$ at the end of the day to make equivalent power?
Numbers sell and can be quantified. Driving feel not so much. If all we cared about were numbers, then just get a Model 3 Performance or a Charger Hemi and you win the numbers game.
Have you specifically test driven a base TLX and a TLX Type-S to feel the elevated driving dynamics? For you, it would be like me saying a 330i is basically an M3 without the added power and will drive the exact same if you never get on the gas.
Numbers sell and can be quantified. Driving feel not so much. If all we cared about were numbers, then just get a Model 3 Performance or a Charger Hemi and you win the numbers game.
Have you specifically test driven a base TLX and a TLX Type-S to feel the elevated driving dynamics? For you, it would be like me saying a 330i is basically an M3 without the added power and will drive the exact same if you never get on the gas.
Anyway looking forward to seeing all the C&D numbers for the various cars at VIR in a few days
Last edited by Legend2TL; 02-04-2022 at 03:08 PM.
#50
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As it stands its numbers are actually less than a car I had 11 years ago. Why would I be impressed with it from the point of view I measure it by? Be more than happy to drive an S when the dealer gets his head out of his ass. Maybe I would prefer it over the AWD TLX maybe not. As of right now I think the top end AWD TLX is a better deal. I would expect it to be lighter on its feet & more nimble than the six due to weight on the front end alone. You want an agile car the weight should be toward the rear not the front. Would have liked BMW to go more rear weight bias than the near 50/50 is uses now. My front engine homebuilt runs about 53% on the rear wheels.
There is no vendetta I have never said the car sucks, is a piece of shit. Find the post where I did. I have always said its a nice car that has not met its expectations. I has a 3 liter 6 DOHC Turbo 355BHP just like every other car. But it runs like a couple of 4 cylinder cars with 255BHP & 280BHP. I also don't think today its competitive sports sedan. Its a good family car, nothing wrong with that. A lot of guys who one day say its not a race car & speed does not matter the next day are bitching because I said its a slow car is comparable to at least 2 four cylinder 2.0T cars from competitive makes. That's what is not something made up like a TLX Type-S commercial.
#51
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I’m not sure why it would be important to know what cars I have driven as this is not a measuring contest. I asked you because the context made it appear that you have driven the TLX Type-S and could not justify why someone would choose this purchase over another vehicle based on a spec sheet.
Some “performance” cars I’ve driven, which I’m sure to leave out some, include a E36 M3, FK8, M3P, Shelby GT500, Hellcat (I think? It was years ago). Was not meant to be a flex, but to answer your question.
In regard to the second quoted statement. Exactly. The same goes for a Type S or a Type R over the other trims, there are peripheral changes outside of the powerplant.
Some “performance” cars I’ve driven, which I’m sure to leave out some, include a E36 M3, FK8, M3P, Shelby GT500, Hellcat (I think? It was years ago). Was not meant to be a flex, but to answer your question.
In regard to the second quoted statement. Exactly. The same goes for a Type S or a Type R over the other trims, there are peripheral changes outside of the powerplant.
With the type S its the degree as to how material peripheral parts are to the cars performance. Like the 10 speed transmissions performance at WOT or the lack of a HUD.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 02-04-2022 at 03:09 PM.
#52
Senior Moderator
Playing devil's advocate, if they could have kept the weight at the 3,700lb mark with SH-AWD, a K20C1 w/6MT could have made for an interesting offering....granted still well short of the numbers produced by all of its direct competition.
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BEAR-AvHistory (02-04-2022)
#53
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#54
Burning Brakes
However, if a car doesn't pass the "spreadsheet test" , it doesn't make my Short-List (so not even seriously considered any more). And the spreadsheet items largely affect the Functions and Performance.
And I understand emotional buying but these are cars, not TVs.
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pyrodan007 (02-05-2022)
#55
Sure.
However, if a car doesn't pass the "spreadsheet test" , it doesn't make my Short-List (so not even seriously considered any more). And the spreadsheet items largely affect the Functions and Performance.
And I understand emotional buying but these are cars, not TVs.
However, if a car doesn't pass the "spreadsheet test" , it doesn't make my Short-List (so not even seriously considered any more). And the spreadsheet items largely affect the Functions and Performance.
And I understand emotional buying but these are cars, not TVs.
Surely there are other cars with better numbers on your spreadsheet than the one in your avatar, but why that car?
Different strokes for different strokes. No need to bash a product that you don’t like.
Last edited by richii0207; 02-04-2022 at 04:05 PM.
#56
Burning Brakes
1. How do you pass a spreadsheet and what would it contain?
2a. Surely there are other cars with better numbers on your spreadsheet than the one in your avatar,
2b. but why that car?
3. Different strokes for different strokes. No need to bash a product that you don’t like.
2a. No. My short-list was TLX-2.0T, Audi A4, and Audi A5. Corvette just wasn't practical as a daily-driver so it fell-off the list.
2b. Because it was in my price-range (notice we own 2 nice vehicle at once) and because it's awesome.
3. What did I bash ?
#57
1. It contains all features and options.
2a. No. My short-list was TLX-2.0T, Audi A4, and Audi A5. Corvette just wasn't practical as a daily-driver so it fell-off the list.
2b. Because it was in my price-range (notice we own 2 nice vehicle at once) and because it's awesome.
3. What did I bash ?
2a. No. My short-list was TLX-2.0T, Audi A4, and Audi A5. Corvette just wasn't practical as a daily-driver so it fell-off the list.
2b. Because it was in my price-range (notice we own 2 nice vehicle at once) and because it's awesome.
3. What did I bash ?
That last part wasn’t directed to you. I should’ve put that statement above the quote. It just seems like the norm on these boards to flame products that you don’t like. It’s akin to the typical iOS vs Android fanboyism and preference.
The point I am trying to make is that people are thinking that everyone has the same tastes and needs as them. Some drive a minivan, others ride a motorcycle. I personally would never own another German-made car as my previously owned German cars were money pits after warranty, this includes friends and family vehicles too. But that shows difference in perspective and preference.
Last edited by richii0207; 02-04-2022 at 05:29 PM.
#58
6G TLX-S
You used the TLX 4 cylinder performance VS the TLX performance as a demonstration of speed. This is a current 4 cylinder car tested in 2019/2020 by C&D in a 3 was comparo It just suggests the TLX 4 cylinder has room for improvement. BTW this list was the second quickest 4 cylinder the quickest did 0-60 in 4.6 & 13.3 @ 104mph
Car & Driver 2019
TEST RESULTS
30 mph 1.8 sec
60 mph 5.1 sec
100 mph 13.8 sec
120 mph 21.4 sec
1/4-Mile @ mph 13.8 sec @ 100
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph 6.5 sec
30–50 mph Top Gear, 3.2 sec
50–70 mph Top Gear 3.9 sec
Top Speed 155 mph
Chassis Braking, 70–0 mph
Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad 0.99G
Car & Driver 2019
TEST RESULTS
30 mph 1.8 sec
60 mph 5.1 sec
100 mph 13.8 sec
120 mph 21.4 sec
1/4-Mile @ mph 13.8 sec @ 100
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph 6.5 sec
30–50 mph Top Gear, 3.2 sec
50–70 mph Top Gear 3.9 sec
Top Speed 155 mph
Chassis Braking, 70–0 mph
Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad 0.99G
Originally Posted by MotorTrend: 2021 Acura TLX Type S First Test: SH-AWD's Time to Shine
Not only is the TLX Type S a serious performer, it's also far and away the best version of the TLX you can buy. When we tested the 2021 TLX A-Spec at our Car of the Year competition, we said it had the right moves, and despite not putting up big numbers, it could still hang with the best when it came to handling and overall feel. The Type S brings the numbers to the party, courtesy of a burlier engine.
Its turbocharged 3.0-liter V-6 makes 355 horsepower and 354 lb-ft of torque, way up from the A Spec's 272 hp and 280 lb-ft. The result is a 0-60-mph sprint of 5.1 seconds and a quarter-mile time of 13.7 seconds at 101.8 mph. That's way down from the A-Spec's 6.1-second sprint to 60, and the gap opens up even further once they reach the end of the quarter. In terms of braking from 60 to 0 mph, the Type S' optional performance tires helped the 4,179-pound car stop in 112 feet—4 feet shy of the 220-pound lighter A-spec car.
Both the A-Spec and the Type S use Acura's Super Handling All-Wheel-Drive (SH-AWD) that can send up to 70 percent of torque to the rear axle and as much as 100 percent of that output to either rear wheel. But Acura has fiddled with the AWD software for the Type S, making it quicker and more eager to engage the rear wheels in the Sport and Sport+ modes, and that makes it noticeably more agile. Around our figure-eight course, a 2020 TLX A Spec needed 26.6 seconds to complete a lap at an average of 0.66 g. The Type S is noticeably quicker at 25.0 seconds, with a significantly grippier 0.75 g average. That's down to both the SH-AWD programming and this model's stickier, $800 Pirelli P Zero tires.
It's worth noting that rivals like the Audi S4, BMW M340i, and Genesis G70 3.3T are all quicker to 60 mph. Simply put, they just launch harder than the Type S does, but once we twisted the steering wheel in the figure-eight test, the Type S outperformed the Audi and tied the BMW. Not bad for something that's down on power to the Bimmer and much heavier than either German.
More important, though, is how this car feels out in the real world. This is a sport sedan, after all, so it should feel like one even in everyday use. And it absolutely does.
Its turbocharged 3.0-liter V-6 makes 355 horsepower and 354 lb-ft of torque, way up from the A Spec's 272 hp and 280 lb-ft. The result is a 0-60-mph sprint of 5.1 seconds and a quarter-mile time of 13.7 seconds at 101.8 mph. That's way down from the A-Spec's 6.1-second sprint to 60, and the gap opens up even further once they reach the end of the quarter. In terms of braking from 60 to 0 mph, the Type S' optional performance tires helped the 4,179-pound car stop in 112 feet—4 feet shy of the 220-pound lighter A-spec car.
Both the A-Spec and the Type S use Acura's Super Handling All-Wheel-Drive (SH-AWD) that can send up to 70 percent of torque to the rear axle and as much as 100 percent of that output to either rear wheel. But Acura has fiddled with the AWD software for the Type S, making it quicker and more eager to engage the rear wheels in the Sport and Sport+ modes, and that makes it noticeably more agile. Around our figure-eight course, a 2020 TLX A Spec needed 26.6 seconds to complete a lap at an average of 0.66 g. The Type S is noticeably quicker at 25.0 seconds, with a significantly grippier 0.75 g average. That's down to both the SH-AWD programming and this model's stickier, $800 Pirelli P Zero tires.
It's worth noting that rivals like the Audi S4, BMW M340i, and Genesis G70 3.3T are all quicker to 60 mph. Simply put, they just launch harder than the Type S does, but once we twisted the steering wheel in the figure-eight test, the Type S outperformed the Audi and tied the BMW. Not bad for something that's down on power to the Bimmer and much heavier than either German.
More important, though, is how this car feels out in the real world. This is a sport sedan, after all, so it should feel like one even in everyday use. And it absolutely does.
Need I say more ?
#59
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Yes C&D Lightning Laps will settle the handling. MT Figure 8 is interesting but 24th out of 27 sandwiched between a Dodge Challenger Hellcat Red Eye & a Golf-R on a tight TH road course also says something. Like the TV show said "The truth is out there".
But slower than the 4.6sec & 13.3@104MPH C&D got from the Alfa 280BHP 4 cylinder. Just matters which 4 you pick
But slower than the 4.6sec & 13.3@104MPH C&D got from the Alfa 280BHP 4 cylinder. Just matters which 4 you pick
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 02-05-2022 at 04:59 AM.
#60
Check out Car and Driver test. Stretched out to 100mph-0
Type-S w Summers: 359 ft
A-Spec w Primacy AS: 362 ft
Those Brembos don't seem to be helping all that much.....
#61
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Wait so much grippier Summer tires vs absolutely mediocre at best all seasons on the A-Spec only got 4 feet shorter than said A spec. Imagine how much shorter the ASpec could be with summer rubber.
Check out Car and Driver test. Stretched out to 100mph-0
Type-S w Summers: 359 ft
A-Spec w Primacy AS: 362 ft
Those Brembos don't seem to be helping all that much.....
Check out Car and Driver test. Stretched out to 100mph-0
Type-S w Summers: 359 ft
A-Spec w Primacy AS: 362 ft
Those Brembos don't seem to be helping all that much.....
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BEAR-AvHistory (02-06-2022)
#62
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Wait so much grippier Summer tires vs absolutely mediocre at best all seasons on the A-Spec only got 4 feet shorter than said A spec. Imagine how much shorter the ASpec could be with summer rubber.
Check out Car and Driver test. Stretched out to 100mph-0
Type-S w Summers: 359 ft
A-Spec w Primacy AS: 362 ft
Those Brembos don't seem to be helping all that much.....
Check out Car and Driver test. Stretched out to 100mph-0
Type-S w Summers: 359 ft
A-Spec w Primacy AS: 362 ft
Those Brembos don't seem to be helping all that much.....
You look at the MT exclusive figure 8 which I don't think has much meaning other than to give MT some kind of uniqueness in their testing. They seem to have major clusters of random cars in all the timings example: 24.00 - 13 cars, 24.10 - 16 cars, 24.20 - 13 cars, 24.30 - 13 cars. Seems odd that so many varied cars would have the same score. Would be better if they carried it out one more decimal place like LL.
These cars are not race cars but they are being compared on a race track. The TLX Type-S was officially introduce to the world on a race track complete with track brake pads in the Brembos with magazine writers doing laps for their reviews. The writers race track experience with the Type-S was baked into their reviews. My belief its all well & fair that the car be judged against other cars on a race track the same way it was introduced.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 02-06-2022 at 02:46 AM.
#63
6G TLX-S
Yes C&D Lightning Laps will settle the handling. MT Figure 8 is interesting but 24th out of 27 sandwiched between a Dodge Challenger Hellcat Red Eye & a Golf-R on a tight TH road course also says something. Like the TV show said "The truth is out there".
But slower than the 4.6sec & 13.3@104MPH C&D got from the Alfa 280BHP 4 cylinder. Just matters which 4 you pick
But slower than the 4.6sec & 13.3@104MPH C&D got from the Alfa 280BHP 4 cylinder. Just matters which 4 you pick
MotorTrend had tested both the 4-cylinder A-spec and the V6 Type-S. For 0-60, the A-spec was 6.1 secs, and the Type-S was 5.1 secs.
The C&D number you supplied was 5.1 sec for the 4-cylinder A-spec. Since C&D testers were able to squeeze a 5.1 sec for the MotorTrend 6.1-sec 4-cylinder A-spec, don't be surprised if C&D is able to squeeze a 4.1 sec for the MotorTrend 5.1-sec V6 Type-S when they manage to test one.
#64
6G TLX-S
Wait so much grippier Summer tires vs absolutely mediocre at best all seasons on the A-Spec only got 4 feet shorter than said A spec. Imagine how much shorter the ASpec could be with summer rubber.
Check out Car and Driver test. Stretched out to 100mph-0
Type-S w Summers: 359 ft
A-Spec w Primacy AS: 362 ft
Those Brembos don't seem to be helping all that much.....
Check out Car and Driver test. Stretched out to 100mph-0
Type-S w Summers: 359 ft
A-Spec w Primacy AS: 362 ft
Those Brembos don't seem to be helping all that much.....
Therefore, even if the heavier Type-S has the same 100-0 stopping distance as the lighter A-spec, the Brembos are considered to be doing its job well.
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MarcoTLX (02-06-2022)
#65
Safety Car
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Always stick with the same auto magazine testers when comparing cars, because different auto mag testers have different test methods, different test conditions, and different test environments, and as a result will give skewed numbers.
MotorTrend had tested both the 4-cylinder A-spec and the V6 Type-S. For 0-60, the A-spec was 6.1 secs, and the Type-S was 5.1 secs.
The C&D number you supplied was 5.1 sec for the 4-cylinder A-spec. Since C&D testers were able to squeeze a 5.1 sec for the MotorTrend 6.1-sec 4-cylinder A-spec, don't be surprised if C&D is able to squeeze a 4.1 sec for the MotorTrend 5.1-sec V6 Type-S when they manage to test one.
MotorTrend had tested both the 4-cylinder A-spec and the V6 Type-S. For 0-60, the A-spec was 6.1 secs, and the Type-S was 5.1 secs.
The C&D number you supplied was 5.1 sec for the 4-cylinder A-spec. Since C&D testers were able to squeeze a 5.1 sec for the MotorTrend 6.1-sec 4-cylinder A-spec, don't be surprised if C&D is able to squeeze a 4.1 sec for the MotorTrend 5.1-sec V6 Type-S when they manage to test one.
#66
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Always stick with the same auto magazine testers when comparing cars, because different auto mag testers have different test methods, different test conditions, and different test environments, and as a result will give skewed numbers.
MotorTrend had tested both the 4-cylinder A-spec and the V6 Type-S. For 0-60, the A-spec was 6.1 secs, and the Type-S was 5.1 secs.
The C&D number you supplied was 5.1 sec for the 4-cylinder A-spec. Since C&D testers were able to squeeze a 5.1 sec for the MotorTrend 6.1-sec 4-cylinder A-spec, don't be surprised if C&D is able to squeeze a 4.1 sec for the MotorTrend 5.1-sec V6 Type-S when they manage to test one.
MotorTrend had tested both the 4-cylinder A-spec and the V6 Type-S. For 0-60, the A-spec was 6.1 secs, and the Type-S was 5.1 secs.
The C&D number you supplied was 5.1 sec for the 4-cylinder A-spec. Since C&D testers were able to squeeze a 5.1 sec for the MotorTrend 6.1-sec 4-cylinder A-spec, don't be surprised if C&D is able to squeeze a 4.1 sec for the MotorTrend 5.1-sec V6 Type-S when they manage to test one.
You have a slight misunderstanding of what I said. I was comparing the S to competitive 4 cylinder cars not the TLX 4 cylinder that is slower than competitive cars. I was suggesting the TLX 4 cylinder was so slow compared to the other players 4's it had a lot of room, about 1.5 seconds, for improvement.
I said a 4 cylinder 2.0 Turbo in a 3 (mistake was a 4 way test) way test not a TLX 4 cylinder in a 3 way test. FWIW the quickest 4 cylinder in the test was an Alfa.
What I did not add as it pisses some of you off was the numbers belong to a 2019 BMW 330. Exactly what I did say was:
"This is a current 4 cylinder car tested in 2019/2020 by C&D in a 3 was comparo. It just suggests the TLX 4 cylinder has room for improvement. BTW this list was the second quickest 4 cylinder the quickest did 0-60 in 4.6 & 13.3 @ 104mph"
Believe this is why the TH guys said they would buy the 330 before the S again just a matter of their opinion.
About this post, I was more than happy until your MT post to leave track performance go after my last one till the LL results are in otherwise we are .
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 02-06-2022 at 11:34 AM.
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one4all (02-08-2022)
#67
6G TLX-S
You used the TLX 4 cylinder performance VS the TLX performance as a demonstration of speed. This is a current 4 cylinder car tested in 2019/2020 by C&D in a 3 was comparo It just suggests the TLX 4 cylinder has room for improvement. BTW this list was the second quickest 4 cylinder the quickest did 0-60 in 4.6 & 13.3 @ 104mph
Car & Driver 2019
TEST RESULTS
30 mph 1.8 sec
60 mph 5.1 sec
100 mph 13.8 sec
120 mph 21.4 sec
1/4-Mile @ mph 13.8 sec @ 100
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph 6.5 sec
30–50 mph Top Gear, 3.2 sec
50–70 mph Top Gear 3.9 sec
Top Speed 155 mph
Chassis Braking, 70–0 mph
Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad 0.99G
Car & Driver 2019
TEST RESULTS
30 mph 1.8 sec
60 mph 5.1 sec
100 mph 13.8 sec
120 mph 21.4 sec
1/4-Mile @ mph 13.8 sec @ 100
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph 6.5 sec
30–50 mph Top Gear, 3.2 sec
50–70 mph Top Gear 3.9 sec
Top Speed 155 mph
Chassis Braking, 70–0 mph
Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad 0.99G
I already told him that MotorTrend published 5.1s for the Type-S and 6.1s for the A-spec.
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...t-test-review/
#68
6G TLX-S
C&D Typically gets the most out of the cars but not always. I like their consistency test to test & the deep historical base available. They got AFAIK the best 0-60 @ 4.9 for the Type-S so all is good with them.
You have a slight misunderstanding of what I said. I was comparing the S to competitive 4 cylinder cars not the TLX 4 cylinder that is slower than competitive cars. I was suggesting the TLX 4 cylinder was so slow compared to the other players 4's it had a lot of room, about 1.5 seconds, for improvement.
I said a 4 cylinder 2.0 Turbo in a 3 (mistake was a 4 way test) way test not a TLX 4 cylinder in a 3 way test. FWIW the quickest 4 cylinder in the test was an Alfa.
What I did not add as it pisses some of you off was the numbers belong to a 2019 BMW 330. Exactly what I did say was:
"This is a current 4 cylinder car tested in 2019/2020 by C&D in a 3 was comparo. It just suggests the TLX 4 cylinder has room for improvement. BTW this list was the second quickest 4 cylinder the quickest did 0-60 in 4.6 & 13.3 @ 104mph"
Believe this is why the TH guys said they would buy the 330 before the S again just a matter of their opinion.
about this post, I was more than happy until your MT post to leave track performance go after my last one till the LL results are in otherwise we are .
You have a slight misunderstanding of what I said. I was comparing the S to competitive 4 cylinder cars not the TLX 4 cylinder that is slower than competitive cars. I was suggesting the TLX 4 cylinder was so slow compared to the other players 4's it had a lot of room, about 1.5 seconds, for improvement.
I said a 4 cylinder 2.0 Turbo in a 3 (mistake was a 4 way test) way test not a TLX 4 cylinder in a 3 way test. FWIW the quickest 4 cylinder in the test was an Alfa.
What I did not add as it pisses some of you off was the numbers belong to a 2019 BMW 330. Exactly what I did say was:
"This is a current 4 cylinder car tested in 2019/2020 by C&D in a 3 was comparo. It just suggests the TLX 4 cylinder has room for improvement. BTW this list was the second quickest 4 cylinder the quickest did 0-60 in 4.6 & 13.3 @ 104mph"
Believe this is why the TH guys said they would buy the 330 before the S again just a matter of their opinion.
about this post, I was more than happy until your MT post to leave track performance go after my last one till the LL results are in otherwise we are .
You have a question : "Still having a hard time understanding why guys will spend a significant premium for the Type-S over the top end 4 cylinder TXL if "speed isn't important". I answer your question.
This is not the first time you asked this same question. I want to answer it one final time, so you can put it to rest once and for all.
Last edited by Edward'TLS; 02-06-2022 at 12:29 PM.
#69
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
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You too have a slight misunderstanding of what I said. I said the V6 Type-S is almost 1 sec faster in 0-60 than the 4-cylinder A-spec. This is one of the many attractive reasons why TLX buyers choose the more expensive Type-S rather than the top-line 4-cylinder A-spec. The Type-S is a faster car. Speed is important, not speed is not the most important to decide buying the Type-S or not.
You have a question : "Still having a hard time understanding why guys will spend a significant premium for the Type-S over the top end 4 cylinder TXL if "speed isn't important". I answer your question.
This is not the first time you asked this same question. I want to answer it one final time, so you can put it to rest once and for all.
You have a question : "Still having a hard time understanding why guys will spend a significant premium for the Type-S over the top end 4 cylinder TXL if "speed isn't important". I answer your question.
This is not the first time you asked this same question. I want to answer it one final time, so you can put it to rest once and for all.
You go in todays mid level market from a slow 4 cylinder 0-60 to a slow 6 cylinder 0-60 compared to cars you Acura says are competitors. The customer base says & don't care about speed. So what else is there for people who have no interest in speed to pay a premium of about $5,400 adding on those features you don't get + whatever ADM the dealer can squeeze out of you. Personally if I was a current Acura buyer & would do what I did the last time I bought one & say screw the S will buy the base 6MT.
Think we will just have to agree to disagree on this point. Unless something new happens expect the next long term debate will be LL for better or worse.
#70
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Was editing & the post got put up before it was done Sorry about that
You too have a slight misunderstanding of what I said. I said the V6 Type-S is almost 1 sec faster in 0-60 than the 4-cylinder A-spec. This is one of the many attractive reasons why TLX buyers choose the more expensive Type-S rather than the top-line 4-cylinder A-spec. The Type-S is a faster car. Speed is important, not speed is not the most important to decide buying the Type-S or not.
You have a question : "Still having a hard time understanding why guys will spend a significant premium for the Type-S over the top end 4 cylinder TXL if "speed isn't important". I answer your question.
This is not the first time you asked this same question. I want to answer it one final time, so you can put it to rest once and for all.
You have a question : "Still having a hard time understanding why guys will spend a significant premium for the Type-S over the top end 4 cylinder TXL if "speed isn't important". I answer your question.
This is not the first time you asked this same question. I want to answer it one final time, so you can put it to rest once and for all.
Above all things Acura is supposed to be a value buy. What specifically does the S offer over the 4 cylinder outside of a 1 second time reduction? AFAIK it does not even offer all the features of the 4 cylinder car.
So what else is there for people who have no interest in speed to pay a premium of about $5,400+ adding on the value of those features you don't get + whatever ADM the dealer can squeeze out of you. Personally if I was a current Acura buyer & would do what I did the last time I bought one & say screw the S 6MT will just buy the base 6MT.
Think we will just have to agree to disagree on this point. Unless something new happens expect the next long term debate will be LL for better or worse. Really hope for the guys spending the money the car shows well. Have no M340 in the game.
#71
I just don't see it. Above all things Acura is supposed to be a value buy. What specifically does the S offer over the 4 cylinder outside of a 1 second time reduction? AFAIK it does not even offer all the features of the 4 cylinder car.
You go in todays mid level market from a slow 4 cylinder 0-60 to a slow 6 cylinder 0-60 compared to cars you Acura says are competitors. The customer base says & don't care about speed. So what else is there for people who have no interest in speed to pay a premium of about $5,400 adding on those features you don't get + whatever ADM the dealer can squeeze out of you. Personally if I was a current Acura buyer & would do what I did the last time I bought one & say screw the S will buy the base 6MT.
Think we will just have to agree to disagree on this point. Unless something new happens expect the next long term debate will be LL for better or worse.
You go in todays mid level market from a slow 4 cylinder 0-60 to a slow 6 cylinder 0-60 compared to cars you Acura says are competitors. The customer base says & don't care about speed. So what else is there for people who have no interest in speed to pay a premium of about $5,400 adding on those features you don't get + whatever ADM the dealer can squeeze out of you. Personally if I was a current Acura buyer & would do what I did the last time I bought one & say screw the S will buy the base 6MT.
Think we will just have to agree to disagree on this point. Unless something new happens expect the next long term debate will be LL for better or worse.
1) Fully loaded trim (not a base model) with all features available. Only two features it does not come with are wireless AA/CarPlay and HUD.
2) Improved braking
3) Chassis rigidity
4) Improved suspension
5) Aesthetic changes
This is akin to someone asking “A Civic Type R is just a 306hp Civic, why pay 10K more for 100 hp over an Si?”
Not to be rude but if you have to ask these kind of myopic questions, you should really research more into products.
Last edited by richii0207; 02-06-2022 at 02:46 PM.
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#72
6G TLX-S
I just don't see it. Above all things Acura is supposed to be a value buy. What specifically does the S offer over the 4 cylinder outside of a 1 second time reduction? AFAIK it does not even offer all the features of the 4 cylinder car.
You go in todays mid level market from a slow 4 cylinder 0-60 to a slow 6 cylinder 0-60 compared to cars you Acura says are competitors. The customer base says & don't care about speed. So what else is there for people who have no interest in speed to pay a premium of about $5,400 adding on those features you don't get + whatever ADM the dealer can squeeze out of you. Personally if I was a current Acura buyer & would do what I did the last time I bought one & say screw the S will buy the base 6MT.
Think we will just have to agree to disagree on this point. Unless something new happens expect the next long term debate will be LL for better or worse.
You go in todays mid level market from a slow 4 cylinder 0-60 to a slow 6 cylinder 0-60 compared to cars you Acura says are competitors. The customer base says & don't care about speed. So what else is there for people who have no interest in speed to pay a premium of about $5,400 adding on those features you don't get + whatever ADM the dealer can squeeze out of you. Personally if I was a current Acura buyer & would do what I did the last time I bought one & say screw the S will buy the base 6MT.
Think we will just have to agree to disagree on this point. Unless something new happens expect the next long term debate will be LL for better or worse.
Below are what the "slow" Type-S has, but even the "even-slower" top-line 4-cylinder trim doesn't :
(1) 83 additional hp and 74 additional lb-ft torque over a wider rpm range.
(2) sport programmed 10AT transmission and rev-matching downshift.
(3) sport programmed SH-AWD for faster torque split transfer.
(4) sport tuned suspension.
(5) IDS Sport+ mode.
(6) Brembo big front brakes.
(7) 20" wheels and tires.
(8) killer-looking Type-S exclusive exterior appearance treatment. (one of main selling points)
(9) only 200 MY'2021 copies in Canada, and only 2,000 MY'2021 copies in the US. (another main selling point - exclusivity)
(10) definitely a value buy because one can easily spend 2x to 3x the MSRP difference and still not able to mod the top-line 4-cylinder TLX to match the factory Type-S performance.
The MSRP differences between the Type-S and the 4-cylunder Aspec is $6,150, and between the Type-S and the 4-cylinder Advance is $4,100. The Aspec is performance orientated but not well equipped, but the Advance is fully-loaded but not performance orientated. The Type-S is a almost perfect marriage of the Aspec and the Advance, bringing performance and feature-list together in a single package trim. The only missing Type-S features (compared to the non-sport-tuned Advance) are HUD, Foglights, and Surround Cameras. The Type-S is equipped with almost every features that the Aspec has.
In comparison, I'm pretty sure that there are premium-priced M340i that are sold with less features than the much cheaper 330i. Not every buyers want to arm their vehicles to the teeth with options and features. I'm also very sure that the 240 Canadian 2021 Type-S and the 2,000 US 2021 Type-S owners are very satisfy with their vehicle choice even given the 3 or so missing features that are only available on the non-sport-tuned Advance trim.
Better still if Acura could release 2 Type-S trims. One fully loaded for picky buyers like you, and one fully stripped down and race-ready with minimal weight for track use.
When you said the customer base says & don't care about speed. Yes and No. Yes in the sense that the Type-S is one full sec faster than any 4-cylinder trims. I myself is one. But no in the sense that Type-S owners are not blindly going after speed alone, because even thought there are sub-5 sec cars out there, they are happy and satisfy with their "comparatively-slower" 5 sec Type-S. 6 sec won't cut it, but when there is a choice of 5 sec Type-S, why not ? They don't care about other auto makes with offerings that have faster 0-60 times than the Type-S.
The MotorTrend editor has summed up the Type-S extremely well. The Type-S is slower to the 60mph than its competitors, but it has handling performance that can rival the best. This is what makes the Type-S so attractive to buyers who consider speed isn't the most important deciding factor in buyer the car.
Originally Posted by MotorTrend: 2021 Acura TLX Type S First Test: SH-AWD's Time to Shine
It's worth noting that rivals like the Audi S4, BMW M340i, and Genesis G70 3.3T are all quicker to 60 mph. Simply put, they just launch harder than the Type S does, but once we twisted the steering wheel in the figure-eight test, the Type S outperformed the Audi and tied the BMW. Not bad for something that's down on power to the Bimmer and much heavier than either German.
Last edited by Edward'TLS; 02-06-2022 at 05:56 PM.
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#73
Below are what the "slow" Type-S has, but even the "even-slower" top-line 4-cylinder trim doesn't :
(1) 83 additional hp and 74 additional lb-ft torque over a wider rpm range. Plus an extra 230lbs to haul around
(2) sport programmed 10AT transmission and rev-matching downshift. Marketing
(3) sport programmed SH-AWD for faster torque split transfer. Marketing
(4) sport tuned suspension. Much Marketing
(5) IDS Sport+ mode. Basically worthless
(6) Brembo big front brakes. I'll give you this one
(7) 20" wheels and tires. This is an advantage?
(8) killer-looking Type-S exclusive exterior appearance treatment. (one of main selling points) Unless you're an enthusiast, the vast majority aren't going to be able to tell the difference between an A-Spec and Type-S. No, laymen couldn't give a shit about your "quad tips".
(9) only 200 MY'2021 copies in Canada, and only 2,000 MY'2021 copies in the US. (another main selling point - exclusivity) And plenty more to come. This isn't going to be a limited edition anything. They'll pump them out as much as they can sell them. Besides, exclusivity is more of a pain in the ass than anything if you plan to keep the car a while (see: trying to find parts for the goddamn thing down the road)
(10) definitely a value buy because one can easily spend 2x to 3x the MSRP difference and still not able to mod the top-line 4-cylinder TLX to match the factory Type-S performance. There's already an RDX that makes as much as a TLX-S with a JB4 tune, so, false.
(1) 83 additional hp and 74 additional lb-ft torque over a wider rpm range. Plus an extra 230lbs to haul around
(2) sport programmed 10AT transmission and rev-matching downshift. Marketing
(3) sport programmed SH-AWD for faster torque split transfer. Marketing
(4) sport tuned suspension. Much Marketing
(5) IDS Sport+ mode. Basically worthless
(6) Brembo big front brakes. I'll give you this one
(7) 20" wheels and tires. This is an advantage?
(8) killer-looking Type-S exclusive exterior appearance treatment. (one of main selling points) Unless you're an enthusiast, the vast majority aren't going to be able to tell the difference between an A-Spec and Type-S. No, laymen couldn't give a shit about your "quad tips".
(9) only 200 MY'2021 copies in Canada, and only 2,000 MY'2021 copies in the US. (another main selling point - exclusivity) And plenty more to come. This isn't going to be a limited edition anything. They'll pump them out as much as they can sell them. Besides, exclusivity is more of a pain in the ass than anything if you plan to keep the car a while (see: trying to find parts for the goddamn thing down the road)
(10) definitely a value buy because one can easily spend 2x to 3x the MSRP difference and still not able to mod the top-line 4-cylinder TLX to match the factory Type-S performance. There's already an RDX that makes as much as a TLX-S with a JB4 tune, so, false.
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BEAR-AvHistory (02-06-2022)
#74
Last edited by richii0207; 02-06-2022 at 07:25 PM.
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Edward'TLS (02-07-2022)
#75
honestly, I don’t see the value in buying the s5 or c43 over this which I was considering. The price doesn’t really justify what you’re getting for the Acura for a daily. And yes I’ve driven both!
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richii0207 (02-06-2022)
#76
Have you driven both cars. The type s feel is completely different compared to the aspec!
honestly, I don’t see the value in buying the s5 or c43 over this which I was considering. The price doesn’t really justify what you’re getting for the Acura for a daily. And yes I’ve driven both!
honestly, I don’t see the value in buying the s5 or c43 over this which I was considering. The price doesn’t really justify what you’re getting for the Acura for a daily. And yes I’ve driven both!
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Edward'TLS (02-07-2022)
#77
AZ Community Team
argueing with the guys who have never even driven the car is futile. They made up their mind reading the stat sheet. It’s like trying to convince a 6 year old that lobster tastes good. they’ve already done their visual analysis and that thing is not going in their mouth.
To further improve handling and driver excitement, the front double-wishbone suspension and rear multilink suspension of the TLX Type S have been updated to fully utilize the sedan’s reinforced chassis. Engineers added 40-percent stiffer front springs, and a slightly thicker front stabilizer bar (29.5 mm to 30 mm) that is 9-percent stiffer. In the rear, the spring rates are unchanged from TLX to help preserve a comfortable ride, and the thickness of the stabilizer bar has increased from 20.5 mm to 22.5 mm for 31-percent additional roll stiffness.
Adaptive Damper System
TLX Type S uses Acura’s Adaptive Damper System, which continuously adjusts damping force based on sensor inputs. The dampers are also tied into the Integrated Dynamics System, providing three unique damping curves set to the driving mode (Comfort, Normal, Sport). For Type S, the dampers use exclusive valve rates with 4-percent more damping capability in the front and 9-percent more in the rear, which give the car a sportier feel with more feedback in all modes.
In addition, thicker gussets connect the side frame and the damper housings, to help support the damper housing from the increased cornering loads from the sticker tires worn by the Type S.
Adaptive Damper System
TLX Type S uses Acura’s Adaptive Damper System, which continuously adjusts damping force based on sensor inputs. The dampers are also tied into the Integrated Dynamics System, providing three unique damping curves set to the driving mode (Comfort, Normal, Sport). For Type S, the dampers use exclusive valve rates with 4-percent more damping capability in the front and 9-percent more in the rear, which give the car a sportier feel with more feedback in all modes.
In addition, thicker gussets connect the side frame and the damper housings, to help support the damper housing from the increased cornering loads from the sticker tires worn by the Type S.
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Edward'TLS (02-07-2022)
#78
Senior Moderator
2021 Acura TLX Type S SH-AWD at Lightning Lap 2022 (caranddriver.com)
2021 Honda Civic Type R Limited Edition
Lap Time: 3:00.7
Lap Time: 3:00.7
Last edited by F23A4; 02-07-2022 at 08:42 AM.
#79
AZ Community Team
^ I was just gonna post that
The Type-S did OK, hanging pretty close to the IS500 within a couple seconds. Interesting that both the IS500 and Type-S had brake fade issues.
Always amazed how well some of the SUV's perform and well as the Bentley Continental GT Speed and Porsche Panamera Turbo S beating the M5 and others.
Also amused to see the Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing beat the M5
The one factor in being hard to compare the various times over the years is the progressive improvement in tire technology. Tire engineers have achieved some amazing performance improvements that never seem to be slow down. I believe tire tech improvements have been a major factor in the LL times dropping through the years.
The Type-S did OK, hanging pretty close to the IS500 within a couple seconds. Interesting that both the IS500 and Type-S had brake fade issues.
Always amazed how well some of the SUV's perform and well as the Bentley Continental GT Speed and Porsche Panamera Turbo S beating the M5 and others.
Also amused to see the Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing beat the M5
The one factor in being hard to compare the various times over the years is the progressive improvement in tire technology. Tire engineers have achieved some amazing performance improvements that never seem to be slow down. I believe tire tech improvements have been a major factor in the LL times dropping through the years.
Last edited by Legend2TL; 02-07-2022 at 08:58 AM.
#80
Senior Moderator
Not overly surprised on the Type S results....it's a heavy beast that's relatively underpowered. But that CTR time has me floored!! ...almost a sub-3 minute time is pretty amazing; clearly the top performance dog for the Honda brand, aside from the NSX.