evo9

Butt hurt time boys & girls

fiatlux

Get ready for the excuses about how straight line performance doesn’t matter because this isn’t a drag car, or how it’s fast enough already, or how it’s (maybe) faster on a road course where real drivers drive.

To be fair, I think everyone was expecting it to get trounced in the quarter mile by the Accord because we know the Accord is faster as measured by every other magazine, but I was surprised it didn’t do as badly from a roll. Yes, it lost, but not as terribly, which gives the impression that even with SHAWD, something is holding it back in the lower gears, and it sure ain’t traction.

Tony Pac

I think we all knew this but it was fun to watch these two guys. Sonata N Line was impressive. No doubt that the Koreans are advancing rapidly! Another 5 years, they will be the market leader. We have to give them the credit

Kense

That's embarrassing and when they showed the price of the TLX it makes it worse. If they make a Sonata N it will probably be faster than the Type S.

BEAR-AvHistory

Think HONDA is playing BHP games like BMW does & is protecting the higher priced car with more advertised power. 90% of the consumers go no further than looking at the number in the brochure. The other thing is the Accords weight advantage. Did anyone look up the gear ratios since they both have the same transmission? Solution for the TLX might be steeper gears off the line. Typical 1/4 mile race has too parts IMHO. The torque part Engine Torque + Gear Multiplication over the first 1/8th mile & the Horsepower Advantage part, after you run out of gear multiplication, too pull you over the second 1/8 mile.

bilirubin

I'm shocked the TLX beat the Sonata N-line from a dig. The N-line has a huge power-to-weight advantage AND launch control. The Accord winning isn't too surprising, it's quicker than a Mercedes C300.

pyrodan007

Acura should have honestly spent more time engineering the engine/transmission performance and not the fake RWD proportions if it really wanted to inject sportiness. From this video, it's an embarrassment. If you don't care about AWD or exterior or audio, the Accord or Sonata is plenty for you.

Regarding the C300, at least it's interior (2021) is superior if you don't care about performance.
https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/09/03/2...e-on-3-series/

F23A4

I think the TLX did just fine and as expected as far as I'm concerned. For every occasion where I get into a stop-light drag race (in Mexico of course), there are 20 occasions where I'll be in some form of speed mitigating traffic condition. With that in mind, I'd rather be in a TLX than the Accord.

Besides, the last generation Accord (V6) would have beaten the 1G TLX 2.4 pretty soundly as well, almighty 8DCT notwithstanding.

EDIT: I will install the caveat that if the Type S is only marginally quicker than the Accord 2.0T then Acura will have put the final nail in their own coffin as a viable manufacturer of competitive sports sedans.

fiatlux

Shouldn't you compare the V6 Accord with the V6 TLX, or the I4 Accord with the I4 TLX? Why bring up V6 Accord vs I4 TLX in suggesting it's not new for a Honda to be faster than an Acura?

WTF.Acura

I mean Acura’s weigh more than their Honda counterparts, so I would expect Acura’s to be slower. I’m pretty sure if the CR-V had 2.0t it would smoke a RDX because the RDX is almost 500lb heavier.

fiatlux

That wasn't always necessarily the case in the past. For instance, the heavier TLX V6 was faster than the 9G V6 Accord in 0-60, the 1/4-mile, and had a higher trap speed, and the heavier TLX I4 was much faster than the 9G I4 Accord as well.

A car from the luxury brand should be faster than its counterpart from the mainstream brand, full stop. Doesn't matter if it's heavier or not, it's a bad look any way you slice it. Just because they use the same powertrain shouldn't be an excuse; they should crank up the power to compensate for the weight. Did Audi say, "Well, the A4 has the same EA888 engine and 7DSG transmission as the Jetta GLI, but it weighs more, so it's acceptable for it to be slower.". No, they gave the A4 more power to ensure its faster (or at least not slower) than its VW counterpart.

BEAR-AvHistory

Think the numbers whatever they are will say what Acura thinks it market is & who they are playing too. Do they really want to build a real Sports Sedan or do they just want to build one that looks like a sports sedan & rely on good image adds for the 90%+ who don't read this site

Or hopefully, will they will step up and build the actual car their marketing has created an images of.

fiatlux

Considering the A-Spec (Appearance-Spec? Poser-Spec?) appears to be their top-selling trim, I guess Acura has concluded their buyers care more about spending money to look fast than actually be fast.

evo9

Problem and solution my 2 cents

1. you should not make your flagship car slower than your main stream car.
2. your flagship car should not share the same engine as your main stream car, if it going to make it slower.
3. the TLX 4 should have been fitted with the CTR engine. TLX and CTR buyers are mostly different people.
4. the up coming 3.0L should have been a reworked 3.5L
5. the up coming type S will suffer the same as what happened in this drag race vid when compared to similar or lesser models.

Reasons for slow sales folks.

F23A4

In both instances and irrespective of powertrain type, we're comparing the base (and arguably the slowest) model of the TLX with the fastest version of the Accord. No?

(And not to belabor 9G Accord/1G TLX talk too much, both were pretty much at the same price point anyway.)

F23A4

I suspect this will be determined by the final execution of the TLX Type S. Honestly, I anticipate that what we will see is Honda's version of the Infiniti Q50 RS400....but maybe not quite as quick/fast.

F23A4

Agreed on point 2 and regarding point 3, I think they should have used the J35A/10AT for the base powertrain as they are doing this with the MDX. Save the 2.0T for the next ILX (or third MMC ILX, seeing as Acura loves the 9G Civic platform so much).

BEAR-AvHistory

Question might be "why does it have to be heaver?" The whole heavier thing is really pissing off fans of a number of brands. The new 440 is 150lbs+ over last years, last years is heavier than the prior series which was heavier than the series before it. Guys were unhappy with the very unhappy first weight gain & its just gotten worse. Personally I think a fat car with a Pig Nose will hurt the 4 series sales.

The first coupe in the series was 2006 it weighed 3507lbs My 2011 335is Coupe was 3,571lbs, 2018 440 Coupe 3710 lb, the Pig Nose 2021 440 Coupe is 3,977lbs. Since the first of this style 6 cylinder turbo coups its gained a 1/4 ton in weight. WHY?

WTF.Acura

The 9G accord transmissions also played a role in it being slower than the 1G TLX.

F23A4

ZF9 diatribes coming in 3....2.....1....

fiatlux

Yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that the 1G TLX was faster than its Honda counterpart.

fiatlux

Not really. The reason the 2.0T Accord gets compared to the TLX 2.0T is because that's the Honda counterpart, not because we're comparing highest Accord to lowest Acura. If the TLX 2.0T was the same price as the old base TLX then sure, that's a fair comparison, but the fact is that the base TLX no longer exists and for all intents and purposes we have the equivalent of a mid-trim TLX, with the top-trim being the Type S.

leomio85

Gotta love it. "Well, it's a luxury car, so obviously it's heavier so I expected it to be slower." Acura claims to be the performance luxury arm of Honda. I'd say it's kind of embarrassing that your pedestrian model outperforms your upscale version, but I fear Honda's remedy to that would simply be to discontinue offering the 2.0T in the Accord. Because Acura can't actually do real performance, so simply stack the cards in your favor by knee-capping your other leg. And yes, the SH-AWD is hampered by being a fragile POS. It's great for inclement weather, but it's obvious that the engineers cut tons of power off the line to preserve the drivetrain components of the SH-AWD. There's only so much I think they can do with the Type-S, which is why, in my opinion, it's going to be a pretty bad time when they finally release the specs on that thing, at least 0-60 and quarter mile.

And you just gotta love the mouth-breathing Honda fanboys on YouTube. "y00000, Honda definitely underrates their HP, brah!" Ok, so then it got beat by the Sonata in the roll race. They don't realize how bad that looks when they try and brag that Hondas are actually pushing out more than the claimed power. Roll races are more indicative of pure power compared to dig races. I would have liked to see them do rolls from different speeds, but seeing as the Hondas have 10sp transmissions, I doubt there's too many "dead zones."

WTF.Acura

🥱🥱🥱

dmski

We all knew the Accord is faster but that quarter mile was just EMBARRASSING... PRECISION CRAFTED SLOWNESS.... That engine combo should not be in the TLX. They should have utilized the 3.0T detuned at 330hp and the Type S should be pushing close to 400hp. My gut saids that the Type S will be smoked the same way by the competition in its class. Delay the launch, improve and don't release a slow turd.

leomio85

3. Truth is, most Acura buyers will be content with the power. As much as Acura likes to push performance, looking at your average buyer around here, they’re usually doing under the speed limit and looking out the windshield in a daze or clutching the steering wheel for dear life. The K20C4/6 are more than enough for most Acura buyers.

4. I believe the reason for this is European regs. Yes, Acura is a NA brand, but I’m sure Honda is looking to use this engine in a lot more vehicles than just the NA market.

My guess, Type-S is running high-4/low-5 sec 0-60 and quarter mile in mid-high 13s. Not ground breaking or really impressive for your lamented Type-S badging, but still faster than most cars you’ll encounter on a day to day. My biggest qualm is the Honda nutswingers who will still act like this thing is an M3-fighter.

Mak P

The TLX needs more HP to even out the weight. 278 is not enough, it honestly should be 330. The type S should be 400 HP, Acura is moving backwards

I'm waiting for the Type S and we'll see. If its underwhelming performance wise given it will not have the same features as the advance, I will be finishing out my lease this year and look towards an used BMW... probably M550i

As I watch its cousin smoke him, I just think of this black Honda cloud hovering over Acura head.

evo9

The other elephant in the room for the TLX type S is the Kia stinger GT.

GT2

$50,390 Starting MSRP*

Powertrain:

• 3.3L V6 Twin Turbo GDI Engine
• All-Wheel Drive (AWD)
• 8-Speed Automatic Transmission w/ Paddle Shifters
• 365 Horsepower
• EPA-Estimated 17/25/20 MPG (City/Highway/Combined)

All-Wheel Drive (AWD)
+$2,200

kuzdu

Saw this video last night

Flapjackura

You nailed it and I think this is true of many folks. Including myself to a fair degree.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

Oh if they only knew about the B58 Right Kuzdu?

Flapjackura

LOL - OK - this does NOT describe me. But, as a buyer who is fine with a fast looking car (sheep in wolves clothing) I can say that I don't really care about making speed/power comparisons to such things as an M3.

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

A lot of people have blinders on with the Koreans. The Stinger GT2 and G70 Sport are such underrated vehicles and offer everything you'd expect for the price point and then some. Best part, these are vehicles with proven performance and have solid aftermarket support. By the time the Type-s does come out, almost all of it's competition will be on a refresh cycle. Once again it will be left far behind before it gets a chance to catch up.

leomio85

I don’t think it describes most on this forum, but enthusiasts are the minority. The vast majority of Acura owners likely don’t even know Acurazine exists.

RENARELLO

Saw this somewhere. " The TLX is writing checks that it's engine can't cash"

Flapjackura

I think I am one of those enthusiasts who's preference for looks writes checks vehicle performance can't always cash. Which begs the question - do I qualify as an enthusiast?

Nedmundo

I definitely consider myself an enthusiast, and yet I'm neither troubled nor surprised by the TLX's performance as shown in the video. I'm not surprised because it's a large, heavy car, that's more like the four-cylinder variants of the CT5, BMW 5 Series, etc. I'm not terribly troubled because I care more about handling and overall balance, which are apparently quite good in the TLX, and I think it has enough punch for my needs. As long as my next car has significantly better 50-80 performance than my old torqueless-wonder TLX, I'm good, and I'm pretty sure the TLX does. But I haven't driven one yet, so who knows? If it feels heavy, I wouldn't like it.

Regardless, I'd prefer something smaller and lighter, so for me the next ILX--or whatever they call the upcoming "compact sedan"--can't come soon enough.

Flapjackura

TLX 2 does feel heavy - but not in a bad way - like driving a comfortable couch - in Comfort mode. In Normal or Sport the overall "feel" seems to lighten up considerably - of course except in Sport mode which makes the steering heavier - but the whole car does feel less heavy in those modes. At least to me. The car has a lot of pep outside of Comfort mode. But I have little basis of comparison as I am new to ownership of anything even remotely resembling a performance car.

bilirubin

Car & Driver just tested the Sonata N-line
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-n-line-drive/
0-60mph in 5.0 sec
5-60mph in 5.2 sec
1/4-mile: 13.6 sec @ 106mph

What really impressed me is that 5-60mph time (5.2 sec), the Sonata is quicker 5-60 than a...
Porsche Panamera 3.0T
Mercedes E53 AMG
BMW 440i, 540i & 840i Gran Coupe
Audi S4, S5 & A6 3.0T
Cadillac CT4-V & CT5-V
Genesis G70 3.3TT
Lexus IS350
and Civic Type R.

What's even more surprising is that the TLX 2.0T still managed to beat the Sonata N-line from a dig (race at 03:00)...
...so by that logic, the TLX 2.0T could beat a Porsche Panamera, thoughts?

fiatlux

I wonder how much of this is due to all the cars being on winter tires. With SHAWD, the TLX is going to be less affected by sub-optimal traction conditions, so it's acceleration runs on winters is going to be much closer to how it performs on AS or summers compared to the FWD cars. Seeing as how C&D was able to coax a 5.2s 5-60 run (compared to just 6.5s for the TLX), I'm all the more convinced that TH's N-Line was hamstrung by the tires when accelerating from a dig.

The most surprising thing is that if C&D's numbers are accurate, the Sonata N-line is only one-tenth of a second and 1mph behind the CTR in the quarter mile. In a Hyundai family car that weighs about 400lb more. And this is just the N-Line, not even a full-fat N version if Hyundai is crazy enough to build one.