Honda430

The S4 can get a little pricey.

leomio2.0

This is why I can't stand this argument. "wEll, siMiLarlY equiPPed tHe mSrP iS wAy m0r3!" Yes, when you load it up with all the options ... and they omit the fact that those packages then offer features and options that aren't even an option on the Type-S. I've built an M340i xDrive and S4 exactly how I'd have them, and they were both under $60k. My S4, with the two main features I'm looking for included (adaptive cruise and ventilated seats), came out to $55.6k. Literally $2k more, which you'd make up with the S4 being more fuel efficient (20 city/28 highway) in ~10yrs, according to average driving habits by fueleconomy.gov.

jhb31

My point was really the A4 can be had for less very nicely loaded and performs similar or better in most metrics so maybe a better comp to the type S performance wise over an S series Audi. Acura was putting it out against the S4 but it's performance is closer to that of the A4. Type S braking performance falls in some other category. The brembo's don't bring it down all that fast for a performance brake option.

ELIN

Yeah, an AWD Prestige A4 retails for nearly $3k less than the Type S w/all season tires.

That A4 will get you slightly more rear legroom and much better fuel econ but a smaller trunk.

DubPK

You can have an S4 with every single option and more over the TLX-S for 58k. You can have it comparably equipped for 55-56k. That 65k sticker price is with a boat load of unnecessary options and I'm including the super sport package and super sport dynamic steering in that as well because 90% of buyers don't need it as they will literally never leave the streets but to those who NEED it for a reason they also need more performance than the TLX-S has to offer so the TLX-S wasn't even on their radar.

The TLX compares to the A4 but the TLX-S compares to the S4.

Legend2TL

This is what he wrote

This is how you responded

uh, perhaps you're lying, or perhaps too dumb or ignorant as to what you wrote?

Not offended just pointing out that typically many (most?) on AZ support other's AZ members when they pick up a new ride, and not ridicule them.

Honda430

Simply out of curiousty what would you deduct from that admittedly loaded sticker to get to $58,000? Granted if you got to $61K and assumed a 4% discount you could get to $58K.

BEAR-AvHistory

Not up on Audi never like the grill so it never got much of a look from me. That said I expect I got taken in by Acura's adds against the S4, the race nonsense & its bigger. Thought that was the competition that Acura was playing against. Then the TypeS VS A4 C&D chart showed up. Performance wise the are pretty much clones with the A4 having better brakes, 300ft skid pad and an attractive price.

Big case of "don't look behind the curtain at the A4" just see how much more expensive the S4 is. Cannot understand why they are so stupid as to put all their advertising money into advertising against more expensive cars. Once you mention another car people are going to look at it & with the internet a deep look will not help sell the TLX Type S.

Its a nice car why can't they just sell it on its merits as the Tier one cars do.

DubPK

You can pick up the Prestige trim with every single luxury option they offer for $58,200+Destination. Throw in the cooled seats + a 2-4% discount and you're still under $60,000.

Only way to get it comfortably over $60,000 is adding every single option they offer on top of the prestige or add all the options to Premium Plus like that sticker shows (which is a really stupid way to do it because you lose the HUD and other prestige exclusive options only to option in everything from the prestige anyways for a premium over it, that lot model has sucker written all over it). Black optics for 1400, Super Sport Package for 2500 (which 90% of drivers don't need), Super Sport Steering for 1500, (again 90% don't need), Fine Nappa Leather 1000, Carbon inlays 500, etc.

The S4 realistically is 3-6k more to get equally or better equipped.

EDIT: Not to mention the 2023 S4 is going to be redesigned and likely include some hybrid/electric components to go with the ICE and will probably smoke the current S4 for about the same price.. personally I've decided to wait, would've been nice to capitalize on my Accord's inflated value but can't bring myself to buy a TLX-S or a last MY S4 for only 4% off, they really wouldn't budge any lower than that because it's a low volume car. Shrug, good thing my Accord is a damn champ haha.

leomio2.0

That would have been more of a personal affront, rather than my own possessive and personal opinion, largely due to primarily wanting a car marketed for performance to actually be fast. I have been generally critical of the car long before these cars were available for purchase and long before official times were announced. When someone says they "don't live your life a quarter mile at a time" (which you jovially concur with), suddenly you're quaking with anger when someone brings up the fact that the vehicle marketed heavily for being the performance pinnacle of the model has worse passing performance than a Kia? I think you'd do well on Twitter ...

The fact of the matter is, you're butthurt because I'm trash talking the TLX Type-S stemming from you having an emotional attachment to a corporate brand.

Regardless, it's more than apparent that this has little to do with you being some "white knight" to purchasers of the Type-S, and more to do with your own ego of me being critical of the car and brand. It's more evident as you chastise me, claiming to personally attack someone's purchase, while in the same breath insinuate I'm "too dumb or ignorant." Ironic.

I guess coming to the realization that a car you held on a pedestal that isn't all it was cracked up to be can be mentally draining ... struggling with that fight against reality must be exhausting. Are you also the one in the comments of the C&D article that's downvoting all the negative comments? LoL

Kense

you sure about that? The A4 is nearly identical in performance to the Type S . The S4 beats it in everything. Even the A4 0-60 is better than the Type S.

BEAR-AvHistory

[Quote
Originally Posted by dmski View Post
Because I don't live my life a quarter mile at a time. Lol. Btw, I still got the Type S with no regrets and no I didn't pay any ADM....[/quote]

Nothing about the back & forth between them. I think thing should be kept civil. FWIW I have been told here my car is going to rust, be expensive to maintain etc, etc, so what, someone I don't even know does not like my car WOW.

Its just like a bunch of guys redoing the Chevy VS FORD stuff going on since Chevy discovered the V8. Time to grow a thick skin. That said outside of the back & forth I offer congratulations as people buy a new car, why not its the correct thing to do. The person bought it so obviously he likes it.

Regarding his not living life a 1/4 mile at the time & 0-60 etc

He might not live it but he does a lot of posts about those two things

Quote:

They are getting consistent mid 13's runs.

This would suggest he has a bit more interest then he claims. It also seems the interest waxes & wanes based on the latest test data VS the PR work. Expect the "live life etc" will become a very familiar set of words here as more tests are done against additional cars.

I think they were discovered about the same time as it was discovered the car would not deliver on its promise of being a top level Sports Sedan. I also think Sam might find it a bit harder to find dealer loaned Type-S cars to run since I believe he did a major hit on the dealers golden goose.

​​​​

leomio2.0

It really is a tough time to be looking at new cars. Heck, in 2-3yrs time, it may be possible to get the TLX-S for mid-to-high $40k, which would certainly be an enticing proposition.

But, being that I'm apparently dumb, I went and looked up what the new Golf R that's set to be released here in the US late this year is all about. What a mistake ...


Although, that interior looks incredibly frustrating and unintuitive to use (not to mention piano gloss black everywhere). Ugh ...

Legend2TL

^ Again for the 2nd time, this is what the new owner wrote

^ Again for the 2nd time, this is how you responded

Nope, merely pointing out how you trash talked another AZ new car purchase decision. Again try actually reading what he and you both wrote, and my 1st response was spot on.
If you trash talk other AZ members choices don't expect kindness in response. Also making assumptions about others thoughts, values, or ideas, you have no clue.

DubPK

Just because your competition beats you doesn't mean it wasn't your competition. Acura themselves benchmark and market against the S4.

kurtatx

Maybe it's just me, but 4.9 is fine IMHO

dmski

So much drama. Leomio2.0 you definitely sound like an Audi fanboy here praising Audi nonstop. Go buy one and enjoy it. I don't see BMW owners bashing Audi non stop in Audi forums for being much slower.

Edward'TLS

4.9 should be fine for most buyers other than the most die-hard 0-60 fans. That is why we continue to have new TLX Type-S owners checking into this forum as soon as their pre-ordered cars are delivered.

dmski

Nothing about the back & forth between them. I think thing should be kept civil. FWIW I have been told here my car is going to rust, be expensive to maintain etc, etc, so what, someone I don't even know does not like my car WOW.

Its just like a bunch of guys redoing the Chevy VS FORD stuff going on since Chevy discovered the V8. Time to grow a thick skin. That said outside of the back & forth I offer congratulations as people buy a new car, why not its the correct thing to do. The person bought it so obviously he likes it.

Regarding his not living life a 1/4 mile at the time & 0-60 etc

Don't over analyze everything. I wasn't eserious about this quote.

Kandyman

The performance numbers are not bad. I think part of the disappointment/frustration is that Acura hyped up this car so much. They promised something that was going to get Acura back to competitiveness in performance sedans, and they failed to deliver on that performance hype. They also made some blunders with the design. Some early Acura videos compared it to the A6 - which is it in size on the outside, but the inside is smaller than the A4. I also can't understand why after several years of automotive journalist bashing the Lexus IS for a clunky touchpad MMI, Acura would choose to do essentially the same thing. And as of 2021 the Lexus IS moved to a touch screen MMI, leaving the TLX holding the crap bag of a clunky touchpad MMI.
None of this means the car is a bad or less than fun car. No. It is a fun car in its own right and it will have its sweet value spot if priced right. But a USD $53k MSRP ain't it. This car needs to start well below USD $50k.

jjsC5

And that one doesn’t even have the Prestige package

jjsC5

If you are happy with the car that’s great. I don’t live my life 1/4 mile at a time either. I roadraced motorcycles competitively for a few years, I’ve autocrossed cars, I’ve drag raced cars, and I want my car to be comfortable and well equipped. Fortunately, there are cars that do all of that well and are significantly fast than the S. I have no issues with people who love the car.

djhtsx

iTrader: (2)

4.9 is perfect for the price point. I’ve actually seen 4.6 personally myself. People fail to remember Acura is giving you an all round sports car with a price point about 10 grand less than the comp. Again, more power equals more cost, more maintenance and potentially could affect reliable which they anchor on.

jhb31

Most of what I see in the Audi forums is people discussing different tunes. Actually surprising the number of posts about that subject. BMW primarily comes up when people are deciding if they should go for BMW/Audi. The driving experience outside of raw speed is different between the two and that seems to often be the deciding factor on which they choose along with personal preference for looks among those two brands. Cost generally doesn't seem to be as much of a factor for most there. Since I prefer a coupe I would consider an M440 in the future except the grill on that thing is hard to get past. Being a bit faster is not enough for me to get past the grill no matter how fast it may be. Others that may not be an issue.

I also get why some who prefer Honda/Acura would buy a Type S, particularly if you want some extra go over the TLX or just like the look. The type S has that extra bump in performance which should make it a lot more fun to drive over the 4cyl TLX. If want faster you have to go outside of Acura (NSX not a realistic option for most people). It never hurts to know how cars stack up though since info is so easily available. When I bought my first type S I didn't really do any research, test drove it, liked it from the first drive and bought it. Never regretted not buying something else as I enjoyed the performance of it just fine and kept it for 10 years and after trading it in on a TLX regretted doing it for over a year. I could have easily bought something else way sooner. Think most buyers of the current type S if they test drove it and loved it they won't regret their purchase either. If you test drive it and are not sure and need to think about if you want it then it's probably not the right choice and then maybe time to start shopping around.

If the type s as it performs now was out when I bought my last TLX I would have bought it as I was solidly an Acura loyalist back then. Just got tired of waiting and waiting on Acura.

Kense

That was all for show down to the fake test car at the debut because they didn’t do anything to make the car on par with an S4.

DubPK

I mean what's your point? The cars competition is still the S4 is all I'm saying. Just because the S4 is superior doesn't mean it's not a TLX-S competitor. The thing about competitions is that they usually have winners so just because the S4 'is better in every way' doesn't mean shit. It's priced in the same segment and positioned as a S4 competitor, it's just not a good one.

flatlandtlx

FWIW, I think the whole touchscreen thing is over-rated. Nobody should be reaching out and messing with a touchscreen when they are driving and if done well, a touchpad can be fine. Acura's setup isn't great and I think the iDrive in my BMW was better, but after driving the car for three months, the TLX's touchpad is good enough and certainly not a reason to avoid the car. My wife's CX-9 has a touchscreen and we almost never use it. Once you get used to spinning their dial, it isn't worth the stretch. If I had a criticism of the Acura's infotainment system, it's the lack of depth and customization that you can do. Not a big deal, but a little surprising. Of course, I say that and I've seen systems that were too complex and they were frustrating to use. Acura decided to keep things relatively simple and limited the options that you can tweak and maybe that is for the best.

Still, touchscreens are over-rated.

DubPK

For some things the touchpad would be fine, like Acura's interface but then you open CP/AA and suddenly your swiping around a cursor which requires way more attention to do simple things compared to just quickly tapping what you want. Climate controls should be physical, infotainment really needs to be touch these days with smartphones basically replacing all the OEM interfaces. Most people in new modern cars are going to hop in, their phone is going to wireless connect from their pocket and they are going to live in iOS/Android designed for touch, not swiping around with a touchpad.

BEAR-AvHistory

Have you driven or ridden in one at 4.6 with Dragy or similar tracking the time? Thought we bagged the $10,000 less as not real starting with the A4. The A4 will run the Type-S numbers & is cheaper. The Stinger GT is less money & quicker 4.4. There are cars in the mid low 4's that are not $10,000 more than the Type-S. Also number of US brands have mid 4 second cars under $55,000.

Better Number in Bold
2021 Audi A4 45 TFSI Quattro
PRICE AS TESTED
$53,840 (base price: $41,945)
C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 4.8 sec
100 mph: 12.9 sec
120 mph: 20.7 sec
Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 5.6 sec
Top gear, 30–50 mph: 2.8 sec
Top gear, 50–70 mph: 3.7 sec
1/4 mile: 13.5 sec @ 102 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 126 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 149 ft
Braking, 100–0 mph: 304 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.97 gC/D FUEL ECONOMY
Observed: 26 mpg
75-mph highway driving: 33 mpg
Highway range: 500 miles

EPA FUEL ECONOMY
Combined/city/highway: 27/24/31 mpg


2021 Acura TLX Type S
PRICE
Base/As Tested: $53,325/$54,625
C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 4.9 sec
100 mph: 12.6 sec
1/4-Mile: 13.6 sec @ 103 mph
130 mph: 24.2 sec
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 5.5 sec
Top Gear, 30–50 mph: 3.3 sec
Top Gear, 50–70 mph: 4.5 sec
Top Speed (C/D est): 155 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 165 ft
Braking, 100–0 mph: 359 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad: 0.96 gC/D FUEL ECONOMY
Observed: 19 mpg

EPA FUEL ECONOMY
Combined/City/Highway: 21/19/24 mpg

djhtsx

iTrader: (2)

yes I was personally in the vehicle. That a4 is not even in the same class as the type s. I’ve driven a loaner a4 and it’s not even close to the type s as far as driving dynamics, pushing you back in the seat feeling and handling. That a4 has so much body roll for just a small sedan it’s not even fun.

Kense

My point is it’s not an S4 competitor because it doesn’t even compete with it. At all. I’d bet Audi doesn’t see it as their competitor either. It’s more in line with the A4, G70 and Q50 non red sport.

mec30

Performance brakes are to combat brake fade. Almost any brake system on a production car can completely stop a wheel from spinning (hence ABS). Average braking distance is dictated by tire compound and weight (and to some degree how good the ABS programming is).

mec30

I would say the sport differential is what makes the S4 fun to drive. Otherwise the sedan suffers from drastic understeer even in low speed sporty canyon driving.

BEAR-AvHistory

I have no axe to grind as my fun cars will both run over 1G based on C&D tests &/or the cars onboard G meter. Not an Audi buyer just trying to understand the statement VS a skid pad number that is very competitive with the upper cars in the class. M340 AWD gets 0.96 g, same as the Type-S, to the A4's 0.97 g

Few things...How was it timed? As for driving dynamics I have never ridden in one so I have to rely on statements like yours & test data to get an idea if its fair to included it in the debate. The C&D test says the A4 scored better on the 300 foot test than the Type-S & M340 AWD. The Type-S scored better than the S4 0.95G & tied the M340 AWD @ 0.96G so its in the game in that metric.

What I am curious about is body roll. Thing is body roll negatively effects camber causing loss of traction. The loss of traction will allow the tires to slip on the 300 ft circle. The to Audi's A4 & S4 sandwich the Type S skid pad number & the N340 ties it. Additionally weight also effects this, lighter is better & the A4 is relatively lighter @ 3705 lb VS M340 3950 lb VS Type-S 4201 lb.

Car & Driver said this:
A4
"HIGHS Standard Quattro all-wheel drive, forgiving ride, athletic handling."

M340AWD
"brilliant ride and handling balance"

robnalex

That might be possible in 10-12 months. That’s what I’m hoping for.

BEAR-AvHistory

Depends what you are looking at & how the potential buyers look at it. A4 & Type-S are within a few hundred dollars of each other & look like twins on the C&D test numbers. Acura says the TLX-S competes with the S4, M340 etc. I believe thats self serving on Acura part & just trying to crash the party like we are as big as a 5 series.

People looking at those those German models, throw in the MB C43 AMG are not likely to be looking at Acura. They are performance buyers much less price sensitive. Would give Acura a look VS the A4, 330 & bottom MB C. That can go both ways Acura to the Germans & the Germans to Acura due to price.

BEAR-AvHistory

You cannot exceed the tires grip but your brakes may not be able to maximize it. The performance brakes in many cases also come with more intense pad compounds. At least all mine did. Used to be easy to see what pads you had by the amount of dust on the wheels. The factory performance compounds now do a much better job in limiting dust but they still do.

True story can be found on all the Factory Five Forums. The FORD Mustang GT front & Mustang Cobra rear brakes are standard. The pads they are delivered with scared the shit out of me the first time I drove the car in Go-kart mode. Car to a loooooog time to drop from 70MPH.

Swapped the pads for HAWK HP+ with no other changes & the car will stop from 70MPH in under 100ft. Location is marked with a stop point & a 100ft point on the ground. Brakes are manual with no ABS. Downside is the pads are dirty. Track versions of the HAWK pad which I also use are very very dirty.

StealthTL-S

I'm doing the same as Mr. Bell, getting the Tech pacakge TSX with SH AWD for $39,000, the type S is being sold for $62,000 for the first ones they get in. They only show a demo type S now, that i test drove. I test drove both the S and the TSX tech, and there's not much difference. The great price on the TSX, is with $2500.00 loyalty and a $4000.00 credit from the dealer for the lease deal. So, it is $20,000 difference , or even just over $20,000!

leomio2.0

I mean, it's the main competition of the TLX Type-S ... hence why C&D, MotorTrend, etc. heavily compare the two. Even Acura themselves brought one to the test day with all the YouTubers. It's not my fault the Type-S simply doesn't stack up well to it. I couldn't care less the badge on the car ... unlike the Acura loyalists who were lauding this car up until the final figures came out. Now it's "stop making fun of us for buying something we like (mainly due to brand loyalty)" as opposed to talk before of how it was going to have underrated power and match or beat the German competition.

And again, this "Audi fanboy" is awaiting the IS500 release to see what it's all about rather than running to be the first on the block to have a Type-S. Because, despite having never personally owned a Toyota/Lexus, I can't ignore that it's going to be quite a package, pending pricing. But, sure ... I'm the fanboy ...

leomio2.0

We'll see how the market plays out. If people are still paying sticker or higher (I don't know why anyone would pay mark-up on this car, but I'm told I'm just a hater), it won't happen. Plus, we don't yet know the production strategy of the TLX-S ... though I would think Acura would look to churn out as many of these as possible, as there's certainly nothing "special edition" about it. The microchip shortage is projected to end around late-2021, with the market not feeling the effects until mid-2022, so I'm sure that will play a role in when we start seeing people possibly getting discounts on the Type-S. They may even bring Loyalty/Conquest back for the Type-S when that adjustment happens ...