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The issue is no matter what value and HP Stinger gives to consumers. I can promise you it won't sell more than the TLX. At least for next 4-5 years. This is proven and we can sit and talk all day about Stinger and Genesis. But if you need to see the truth, check their sales numbers. The same goes, no matter what TLX does, I highly doubt it will surpass 3 series and C class's sales numbers. At the end of the day, we can have million discussions and reviews. But it all comes down to sales numbers. Honda, Kia, BMW and teh rest, all of them need MONEY! You can make the best car in the world, if it doesn't sell. The company will shut its door. Like everything else.
Now, I don't know the new TLX is good or not. We will know once it hits the dealer. It could be a complete disaster lol! but logically if we compare the TLX to the RDX, it may not be the best sedan out there but it will be good. Let's see. Another 3-4 weeks of wait
I honestly do feel bad for Acura since a new engine and Type-S comeback should be very exciting times. I blame them for putting too much icing on the cake though. If the timeline of the Type-S would be 6 months, people would still be excited. Going on for two years, it's making the sauce watery.
Last edited by pyrodan007; 08-31-2020 at 09:36 AM.
I honestly do feel bad for Acura since a new engine and Type-S comeback should be very exciting times. I blame them for putting too much icing on the cake though. If the timeline of the Type-S would be 6 months, people would still be excited. Going on for two years, it's making the sauce watery.
My stance anymore is that Acura has become a low hanging fruit company whereas they are targeting the slightly more informed consumer but not necessarily THAT informed. It may pay off in the long run but the downside to this is that you can alienate the longtime customers who are informed.
This is why Acura will never be a true performance contender. Their drivetrain is designed for maximizing fuel economy rather than performance or robustness. Even their ATF 2.0 fluid used in the 10AT is advertised to maximize fuel economy ... which probably means it has a very low viscosity at the cost of longevity. If this same fluid is used in the Type S, you can be assured that transmission isn’t going to hold up well with the added power, especially with a tune/increased power.
Are you aware that Tremec uses ATF in its MT transmissions? My Tremec is rated to 600ftlbs
Tremec FAQ
Q: Why not use hypoid gear oil
A: Hypoid gear oils are designed to withstand sliding actions at the meshing interface of bevel gears. Some hypoid oils contain extreme pressure additives that are corrosive to certain non-ferrous metals that are used in transmission parts like bushings and synchronizer rings. Also, the friction coefficient of some hypoid gear oils may be incompatible and can cause poor shifting. Both of these conditions can result in premature or excessive wear and failure.
Many users here went from being super excited to will wait and see. If diehards are walking away, what does that mean with the general public? Peanut gallery to you can very well be market research data to others.
I don't think they give a shit. Most people are looking for a nice car that is reliable at a good for them price. If the new TLX fits it will sell. Its only some small percentage of people like us that get all wound-up over basic high performance. The version 1 TLX shot itself in the head with the transmission issue. That killed the "is reliable" thing from day one. Then the compounded the problem by botching the "FIX".
Think most people who are going to spend more than the average price for a car with a typical US income will not roll the dice on a $35,000/40,000+ purchase that might take them 5 or 6 years to payoff.
Many users here went from being super excited to will wait and see. If diehards are walking away, what does that mean with the general public? Peanut gallery to you can very well be market research data to others.
Meh, a few dozen internet people like us who rant and rave?
True testament will be a year or so from now when the 2021 monthly sales are coming in, that will be the real results if the marketing and design teams did their tasks correctly.
"turbo-V6 TLX-S with a tune" > "turbo-I4 TLX with a tune"
As mentioned many times before, the 2.0T has been a proven engine with a reliable aftermarket tune. The unfortunate part of the 3.0T is that it's completely new with a new ECU. It will be a very long time (IF it's possible) to make a RELIABLE TUNE and to have aftermarket support. Anyone that wants the TLX and can obtain a bit more performance will buy the 2.0T.
Originally Posted by Legend2TL
It's just the peanut gallery getting in their opinion whether it makes sense or not does not matter I suppose.
The peanut gallery don't drive basic vehicles with a column shifters either.
Originally Posted by Tony Pac
The issue is no matter what value and HP Stinger gives to consumers. I can promise you it won't sell more than the TLX. At least for next 4-5 years. This is proven and we can sit and talk all day about Stinger and Genesis. But if you need to see the truth, check their sales numbers. The same goes, no matter what TLX does, I highly doubt it will surpass 3 series and C class's sales numbers. At the end of the day, we can have million discussions and reviews. But it all comes down to sales numbers. Honda, Kia, BMW and teh rest, all of them need MONEY! You can make the best car in the world, if it doesn't sell. The company will shut its door. Like everything else.
Now, I don't know the new TLX is good or not. We will know once it hits the dealer. It could be a complete disaster lol! but logically if we compare the TLX to the RDX, it may not be the best sedan out there but it will be good. Let's see. Another 3-4 weeks of wait
The biggest issue with the KIA brand is the damn badge. The refreshed Stinger is a nice vehicle and considering you can buy a 2020 GT2 for as low as 42K (New) is a hell of a deal for the amount of vehicle. Generally speaking and I hate to say this, but most walking into a KIA dealership aren't looking to spend more than 30K for a vehicle. HOWEVER, the telluride seems to be a slam dunk. Dealerships are selling a lot of them over MSRP because the demand is high and the supply is low. Go figure.. Once the TLX is out, I'm sure all the top youtubers will review the car. Best judgement is walking into the dealership for a test drive. A short test drive isn't the most ideal way to judge longer term but it's better than not having the ability to drive one at all.
Not going to lie, next to each other, I think I prefer the looks of the 1G better. I definitely like the rear more (the round exhausts that poke through the diffuser looks way better than the rectangular slits that sit under the diffuser), and I like the old wheels much more. The front of the new one looks a bit more angry and muscular, I'll give it that, but side-by-side the difference isn't as striking as I thought it would be. The more I look at it, the more I feel like it doesn't do the A-Spec look as well as the 1G did. Seems to me the Advance package will be a better buy as it's only a couple grand more than the A-Spec but has a bunch more features; I just don't think the A-Spec look compensates for the missing features.
Not going to lie, next to each other, I think I prefer the looks of the 1G better. I definitely like the rear more (the round exhausts that poke through the diffuser looks way better than the rectangular slits that sit under the diffuser), and I like the old wheels much more. The front of the new one looks a bit more angry and muscular, I'll give it that, but side-by-side the difference isn't as striking as I thought it would be. The more I look at it, the more I feel like it doesn't do the A-Spec look as well as the 1G did. Seems to me the Advance package will be a better buy as it's only a couple grand more than the A-Spec but has a bunch more features; I just don't think the A-Spec look compensates for the missing features.
Look is subjective but I do prefer the exhausts in 1st G. They look more aggressive.
Thanks for sharing. I gotta respectfully disagree with you here. The new TLX looks sleeker, wider, and more planted than the old one. It just looks more premium and a more cohesive design. The front end of the old TLX, particularly the headlights, just doesn't flow very well with the side profile.
Thanks for sharing. I gotta respectfully disagree with you here. The new TLX looks sleeker, wider, and more planted than the old one. It just looks more premium and a more cohesive design. The front end of the old TLX, particularly the headlights, just doesn't flow very well with the side profile.
100% agreed!
The reason it looks very settled and cohesive is that it's designed and built this way. The 1st G refresh was a patch. Acura had no choice but to give us something. But again, look is subjective. I personally think the new TLX look more premium and aggressive.
I think I know what it is. The 1G A-Spec has the aero kit that includes side skirts, a unique diffuser, nicer wheels, etc. I'm looking at the pictures of the 2G A-Spec and comparing it to the pictures of the 2G Advance, and aside from some black out trim and black paint on the bottom part of the rear bumper, and wheels painted black (they look identical to the Advanced wheels), I don't think there's anything different compared to the other models other than a decklid spoiler that I'm sure you can get as an accessory option.
Front bumper is exactly the same:
Rear bumper is the same aside from some black paint
Sides are exactly the same, and wheels are the same aside from paint
I will say, I like the non-A-Spec 2G more than the non-A-Spec 1G, but A-Spec to A-Spec I prefer the 1G. There's just not enough visual gravitas for the A-Spec, especially when comparing it to the "regular" 2G model. At least the 1G A-Spec looked markedly different; this one just doesn't. I suspect they needed to neuter the looks in order to allow the Type-S to stand out more.
Thank you for posting. Those are some good pics.
I'm sorry, but I just don't follow all that, but all I want to know it ...
a. What exact Trim/Feature Package is this Red one?
b. Can you tell if it has SH-AWD? (is the rear-badge the only way to spot one quickly)
Advanced package, and yes it's SH-AWD, although it doesn't matter because it doesn't affect the styling in any way.
That said, the base and Tech package looks identical to the Advanced other than the foglights and wheels. Which is why I say the A-Spec doesn't do enough to differentiate itself from the others; some black trim and a deck lid spoiler is not enough IMO.
Are there any good side by side interior shots of the A-Spec vs Advance? Exterior-wise I have to say that I feel as some others do and the 1G A-Spec is better but the 2G Advance is better when comparing generations.
Meh, a few dozen internet people like us who rant and rave?
True testament will be a year or so from now when the 2021 monthly sales are coming in, that will be the real results if the marketing and design teams did their tasks correctly.
Right coming from the guy who who drives basic vehicles and won't get his hands dirty. Anything else? You're completely irrelevant here.
Coming from a poser like you that states "majority of vehicles are leased" that means nothing, and you have no clue what I've done with vehicles.
So with your knowledge on car leasing won't that make you irrelevant?
Are there any good side by side interior shots of the A-Spec vs Advance? Exterior-wise I have to say that I feel as some others do and the 1G A-Spec is better but the 2G Advance is better when comparing generations.
Coming froma poser like you that means nothing, and you have no clue what I've done with vehicles.
"majority of vehicles are leased"
Poser? GTFO fanboy. Based on all your worthless posts, you don't modify anything you own, but you have no problem posting someones built TL like you know 1st hand what it takes to boost a TL :gheylaugh:. You think you know anything but you don't know shit. Unlike you, I worked for Acura, the same company you act like you know about. also unlike you, I've modified all my vehicles myself and worked in this industry with over 14 years experience. Anything I say it's from my own knowledge not some fairy tail fanboy bullshit you bring to the table.
Hard to believe there's no rear USB charging ports, I wasn't expecting rear climate control but a simple buck 4A 12VDC-5VDC converter, a few passive components, and couple USB-B connectors couldn't have cost that much. :palm:
Hard to believe there's no rear USB charging ports, I wasn't expecting rear climate control but a simple buck 4A 12VDC-5VDC converter, a few passive components, and couple USB-B connectors couldn't have cost that much. :palm:
Welcome to Acura, where head-scratching cost-cutting decisions is the name of the game.
Right now, it's all speculations. No one knows if this car is good or bad. Look is subjective. I personally love it. No one can tell me to hate it. People will love or hate it. This is part of the game....There are at least 10 cars out there to choose in this segment. You don't like it, go and buy something else. But the truth is sales numbers. if the new TLX sales number remain around 30K/year. Then definitely it did not meet the expectation. Simple is that.
Poser? GTFO fanboy. Based on all your worthless posts, you don't modify anything you own, but you have no problem posting someones built TL like you know 1st hand what it takes to boost a TL :gheylaugh:. You think you know anything but you don't know shit. Unlike you, I worked for Acura, the same company you act like you know about. also unlike you, I've modified all my vehicles myself and worked in this industry with over 14 years experience. Anything I say it's from my own knowledge not some fairy tail fanboy bullshit you bring to the table.
You know nothing about me, plain and simple. You're just a tool who worked at a Acura dealership you did not work work for Acura.
So unlike you I and some former coleagues actually did engineer some actual car designs through electronics (first GM car phone although it was not the least bit successful).
But I do know one thing about you, you're a poser who liked to talk and who thinks the majority lease vehicles.
Right now, it's all speculations. No one knows if this car is good or bad. Look is subjective. I personally love it. No one can tell me to hate it. People will love or hate it. This is part of the game....There are at least 10 cars out there to choose in this segment. You don't like it, go and buy something else. But the truth is sales numbers. if the new TLX sales number remain around 30K/year. Then definitely it did not meet the expectation. Simple is that.
People who buy Acuras are largely pragmatic and make decisions using their brain rather than their heart. That's great for cars like the RDX where it undercuts the competition by quite a bit and offers more space/utility. However, the problem with the TLX is that if you line it up next to an RDX that costs the same, it's going to be difficult for left-brain folks to justify buying the TLX, especially with the huge incentives the RDX currently has. The RDX has more cargo space, a larger backseat, easier to park and get in and out of, etc. The TLX certainly has the emotional appeal and wins on driving experience, that's for sure, but those things don't really resonate with a lot of Acura buyers.
So, I'm calling it now: it's not going to sell as well the 1G TLX. While this is a better car than the 1G TLX, the 1G was really two cars in one, with one of them competing aggressively on price, and it had a pretty lackluster internal competitor in the 2G RDX. I'll go ahead and bookmark this post so that I can either toot my own horn a couple years from now, or admit I was wrong.
Are you aware that Tremec uses ATF in its MT transmissions? My Tremec is rated to 600ftlbs
Tremec FAQ
Q: Why not use hypoid gear oil
A: Hypoid gear oils are designed to withstand sliding actions at the meshing interface of bevel gears. Some hypoid oils contain extreme pressure additives that are corrosive to certain non-ferrous metals that are used in transmission parts like bushings and synchronizer rings. Also, the friction coefficient of some hypoid gear oils may be incompatible and can cause poor shifting. Both of these conditions can result in premature or excessive wear and failure.
Yep, used the same in my T56 and by 10k miles, the 2nd gear synchro was just about shot (common issues). Took it to a less than knowledgeable transmission shop that was recommended thru a friend of a friend and they destroyed the thing putting it back together, after telling me everything looked fine and still charging me a premium just to open it up (dropped the transmission myself and brought it to them). Had it rebuilt at a reputable shop doing my own research and the rebuilder told me to dump the ATF and use Pennzoil Synchromesh (GM rebrands this as their own). Tremec themselves will recommend the same.
As for the ATF 2.0, it's a new formulation specifically designed for the Honda 10AT. Having just done the fluid change and looking at the bottle, one of the key elements that it advertises is the fluid maximizes fuel economy. I suspect they do this by using a very low viscosity fluid, even more so than what standard ATF is. The 10AT has been out for 3yrs and there still isn't an aftermarket fluid option. This tells me it's not just an additive package, but likely a fluid viscosity change that isn't lucrative enough for other brands to make as its specific only to Honda/Acura. I used Castrol Transmax Import in my CR-V's AT for over 150k and the thing shifted like butter until I got rid of it with 265k on the clock. That fluid works across numerous applications. What's the deal with ATF 2.0? I'm not knocking all ATFs, just an observation and speculation about what Honda did with the 10AT and their recommended ATF 2.0
I personally like the wood trim more than the aluminum. It gives the interior a bit more of an upscale feeling vs the aluminum. As Faitlux stated, I see the RDX still being the best bang for buck and best seller for Acura.
I will say, I like the non-A-Spec 2G more than the non-A-Spec 1G, but A-Spec to A-Spec I prefer the 1G. There's just not enough visual gravitas for the A-Spec, especially when comparing it to the "regular" 2G model. At least the 1G A-Spec looked markedly different; this one just doesn't. I suspect they needed to neuter the looks in order to allow the Type-S to stand out more.
Agreed 100%. The G1 TLX A-spec was Acura's most performance-oriented sedan and they needed it to look as much the part. The G2 TLX A-spec is now essentially the 2nd fiddle to the Type S, which they need to really stand out as much as possible (front splitter, rear diffuser, quad-tip exhaust). It's kinda funny cuz the original A-spec was an upgrade package for the Canadian 2003 3.2TL Type S (custom blue paint, blue headlight housing (yes, headlight housing), blue leather interior, and this cool spoiler with built-in side-marker lamps, see photo).
Welcome to Acura, where head-scratching cost-cutting decisions is the name of the game.
Well this is where I scratch my head wondering WTH.
1) The TLX 2021 has a DBW electric brake system with I'm assuming a extremely reliable (so you know the car will stop so it's life critical component) servo stepper motor. The kind that can produce alot of force on the master cylinder reliably for many many years. That was probably not cheap at all, I'm guessing IDK ~$100-150. Vacuum servo's are pretty cheap and very reliable so why not, I'm guessing not many potential buyers will care if it's a electro-servo brakes or vacuum servo. This could have been one of those Honda things where they just do it different (i.e. using finger followers in the valve train of their F1 engines when everyone else was doing camlobe over bucket).
2) There's two 2.5A USB-B on a Honda CR-V in the rear row, so Honda already has a existing USB rear seat design from someone (Denso, Delphi,...) just put it in there. Anyway, just unusual as I'm guessing the majority of people bring their PDA's with them when they travel, and occasionbally charge them in the vehicles front or rear seat.
Hard to believe there's no rear USB charging ports, I wasn't expecting rear climate control but a simple buck 4A 12VDC-5VDC converter, a few passive components, and couple USB-B connectors couldn't have cost that much. :palm:
Look at the interior pic of red Advance above. Is there something installed below the rear vents?
The issue is no matter what value and HP Stinger gives to consumers. I can promise you it won't sell more than the TLX. At least for next 4-5 years. This is proven and we can sit and talk all day about Stinger and Genesis. But if you need to see the truth, check their sales numbers. The same goes, no matter what TLX does, I highly doubt it will surpass 3 series and C class's sales numbers. At the end of the day, we can have million discussions and reviews. But it all comes down to sales numbers. Honda, Kia, BMW and teh rest, all of them need MONEY! You can make the best car in the world, if it doesn't sell. The company will shut its door. Like everything else.
Now, I don't know the new TLX is good or not. We will know once it hits the dealer. It could be a complete disaster lol! but logically if we compare the TLX to the RDX, it may not be the best sedan out there but it will be good. Let's see. Another 3-4 weeks of wait
If Hyundai keeps at it, I suspect they will surpass Acura with their Genesis brand. Nowhere in the near future, but within the next 20yrs or so (these things take time). It's the dealer networks they have to work on. Walking into a Hyundai/Kia dealership feels like walking into a grimy, shady used car lot. When we were cross-shopping the Santa Fe with the RDX, we walked out fairly quickly and swore never to come back. savagegeese on YouTube has actually mentioned this on his channel and supposedly, Hyundai knows about the issues with their dealers. The K5 and updated '21 Stinger are goddamn impressive. The GV80? Holy crap. The GV70? Jesus, I wish I could have held off on the RDX because that thing would be parked in my driveway rather than the "built to the standards of a 2002 Chevy Malibu" POS rattling/creaking '20 RDX A-Spec we got. Tunes on the 3.3T on pump gas are in the low-400rwHP range, coming close to 500HP crank. I'm just not a huge fan of the current G70 styling, but a refresh is coming.
Just look at electronics. The Japanese used to be king. Now? Koreans rule everything outside of phones. Heck, I wouldn't mind supporting the mother country either, but like I said, the dealers need a ton of work.
I personally like the wood trim more than the aluminum. It gives the interior a bit more of an upscale feeling vs the aluminum. As Faitlux stated, I see the RDX still being the best bang for buck and best seller for Acura.
Personally, I think it looks kinda cheap and out of place. I think wood only really has a place in premium interiors .... like, S-class at the minimum. This is purely subjective tho. You like what you like.
Well this is where I scratch my head wondering WTH.
1) The TLX 2021 has a DBW electric brake system with I'm assuming a extremely reliable (so you know the car will stop so it's life critical component) servo stepper motor. The kind that can produce alot of force on the master cylinder reliably for many many years. That was probably not cheap at all, I'm guessing IDK ~$100-150. Vacuum servo's are pretty cheap and very reliable so why not, I'm guessing not many potential buyers will care if it's a electro-servo brakes or vacuum servo. This could have been one of those Honda things where they just do it different (i.e. using finger followers in the valve train of their F1 engines when everyone else was doing camlobe over bucket).
2) There's two 2.5A USB-B on a Honda CR-V in the rear row, so Honda already has a existing USB rear seat design from someone (Denso, Delphi,...) just put it in there. Anyway, just unusual as I'm guessing the majority of people bring their PDA's with them when they travel, and occasionbally charge them in the vehicles front or rear seat.
They probably figure that if you have a family, you’ll get the RDX so no point adding family friendly features to the TLX (though that begs the question why they bothered to add rear heated seats...)
If Hyundai keeps at it, I suspect they will surpass Acura with their Genesis brand. Nowhere in the near future, but within the next 20yrs or so (these things take time). It's the dealer networks they have to work on. Walking into a Hyundai/Kia dealership feels like walking into a grimy, shady used car lot. When we were cross-shopping the Santa Fe with the RDX, we walked out fairly quickly and swore never to come back. savagegeese on YouTube has actually mentioned this on his channel and supposedly, Hyundai knows about the issues with their dealers. The K5 and updated '21 Stinger are goddamn impressive. The GV80? Holy crap. The GV70? Jesus, I wish I could have held off on the RDX because that thing would be parked in my driveway rather than the "built to the standards of a 2002 Chevy Malibu" POS rattling/creaking '20 RDX A-Spec we got. Tunes on the 3.3T on pump gas are in the low-400rwHP range, coming close to 500HP crank. I'm just not a huge fan of the current G70 styling, but a refresh is coming.
Just look at electronics. The Japanese used to be king. Now? Koreans rule everything outside of phones. Heck, I wouldn't mind supporting the mother country either, but like I said, the dealers need a ton of work.
08-31-2020, 09:34 AM
Meh, a few dozen internet people like us who rant and rave?
2021 tlx
and who thinks the majority lease vehicles. 
