richii0207

You may want to steer clear of piggybacks, especially when the KTuner release is around the corner.

FckFiat

no reason why you can't use both. They've already said throw the JB4 on top of the flash.

richii0207

You’ll be paying two times the amount for something that KTuner alone can do better. Flash tunes are the way to go on Hondas/Acuras. There’s a reason why tuners stay away from JB4 when flash tunes are available.

csmeance

That's a bad idea esp with JB4 in beta. I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up with a mess of a drive with both on at the same time

FckFiat

I wouldn't know. K Tuner is taking 2 years to produce a product. I'll run the JB4 for now. Actually switched over to map 1 for the first time on a run tonight just to test it out a little. Big difference.

richii0207

If you hop over to the civicx forums, you’ll see the vast benefits of KTuner over JB4 with tuners on there advising against piggybacks. Even the gains are a substantial increase, for instance, +30whp on a FK8 with JB4 whereas a Phearable tune on KTuner adds 80whp. Both on stock vehicles.

Running a piggyback on a car of this caliber is like zip-tying your bumper instead of with screws (Flash tune). It’ll do what you probably need, but the fundamentals are wrong.

Even though I no longer own an FK8, I still find it very informative on those forums where people contribute from a tuning/racing standpoint compared to magazine racers here who find it a hobby to post negativity every moment they can. For instance, over 200 posts on the Thunder Lap thread bashing the Type S but stay silent when another racing event doesn’t go their way. Even the FB group is more informative without the trolls.

csmeance

This is why APR and other companies modify the ECU itself and try not to trick it. Also the E85 kits that are being offered for some of those engines are great! Tons of power out of little displacement engines.

One wrong parameter on piggyback can cause a small issue to explode into a much larger one. Even with K-tuner and a bad tune the same will happen.

A few knocks here and there and suddenly you need some expensive parts.

Better to be safe than blowing up thousands on the dyno. Cat litter is cheap for oil/fluid spills but it's best to keep fluids inside the engine with a good tune!

AdamkGT4

I found the issue, it’s the traction control. If you disable it even at full throttle 100% of the time the shifts are buttery smooth. Also I’ve been running MAP 3 for a while now on 93 oct and it’s perfect. Thinking about bypassing the secondary cat with an ATLP A-pipe for some better flow/sound.

leomio2.0

Any updates on tuning capabilities on the Type-S's? It's been four months since this post and still nothing. I don't/can't see it taking this lock if they had the ECU cracked that long ago. Was the project scrapped? I want to see what these things can do with a proper tune.

caLiTLX

The unlocking of the ECU isnt’t the issue; there’s work in progress and lots of testing from what I have seen. Check out this video posted by a TLX-S owner and known tuner:

loki

Maybe I'm old fashioner but for me, it's Hondata or nothing. Hondata doesn't have the gadgets like others but they go wayyyyyyyyyyyy back.

richii0207

It’s in beta testing since early April with a few users. They have users testing it with access to different octane, altitude, and modifications.

This is also their most conservative tune. Once KTuner is officially release, tuners will likely develop their own more aggressive tunes. For instance, the TSP tune from DRob gives 40 more hp over one of the more aggressive KTuner tune, for the 1.5T. Looking to see what he does with the Type S platform and see how much Acura left on the table power wise.

leomio2.0

So, with my very crude testing with a stopwatch on my phone, I was consistently getting ~4.7sec 0-60 (done 5x). I honestly think there's something limiting power substantially in first gear ... exemplified even moreso by the fact that the 1st to 2nd gear shift change is at 5500RPM while every other gear shifts at 6200. I'd definitely like to see some dyno numbers with before/after ... at least if the power is there, it'll be a saving grace for better power delivery at higher speeds.

I'm not a fan of KTuner either, but (unless something has changed) Hondata has already said they have zero plans for the TLX-anything, which was said on their forum around the time the TLX Type-S was hitting dealer lots last year. I don't know what their reasoning behind it is, especially seeing how they came out for a tune for the friggin' RDX. Perhaps next-to-nobody bought that tune so they figured they weren't going to waste their time with the TLX ... or any Acura products for that matter?

richii0207

He posted how dragy said 4.48 0-60 and 12.7 1/4 with the basic tune running stock, which is the one in the video, IIRC. If a mild tune that added 50whp can take off one second in 1/4, the custom tunes will probably have a stock Type S in the 11s.

loki

Maybe because TLX Type S is such a low volume car and it has an engine they have nothing for. It's easy to make a tune for RDX when so many Hondas use 2.0T but creating something from scratch for 3.0T that they might sell 50 tunes, it wasn't worth their time.

Tommy TLX A-SPEC, AWD

Acura should have turbocharged the V6 and increased the hp to at least 400.

richii0207

Which V6 should they have turbocharged?

F23A4

to my understanding, Hondata is focused on milking that 1.5T for all its worth. Probably great news for the Integra crowd.

I have a Ktuner tune in my TLX 2.0T and honestly, it’s a no brainer for anyone getting the non-Type S TLX. But unlike the Type S, I had the luxury of following this tune with the Accord crowd prior to committing. Hopefully their Type S tune will be as reliable.

richii0207

Which tune do you have for the 2.0T?

Tommy TLX A-SPEC, AWD

3.5 liter.

richii0207

That would lead to less MPG. The J30AC is a fantastic and robust engine already given its design from a blueprint and material standpoint. The amount of power Acura has left on the table has not yet been seen.

Keep in mind that Honda has never made a reputation for designing cars made for drag racing. Although their cars (CTR, NSX, S2000, TLX type S, etc) are slower than their competition in a straight line, they make up for it from their handling and driveability. That’s why they are able to post faster track times with their cars despite being underpowered.

You can easily add more power without much troubleshooting. But configuring suspension components to get a good balance is a PITA, can be pricey, and not everyone can do properly.

F23A4

I’m running a Phearable stage 3 on my A-Spec.

mike03a3

There are a couple of likely impediments to major power increases to the new V6 in the TLX-S.

In the video describing the design and manufacture, Acura highlighted the unusually small intake ports in the head. The small ports serve to keep the intake air velocity fairly high at low rpm, thus improving throttle response and significantly reducing "turbo lag". While it works great, and makes the Type S feel very lively around town with a very flat torque curve, it also limits the top end as the engine is gasping for air as it approaches the (very low) redline.
Any serious power increases will need modified cylinder heads to increase the intake port sizes.

The other issue is the SH-AWD. In early Type-S information Acura mentioned that the launch was reduced to enhance reliability. Obviously an easy coding fix - but you may want to think twice if the stock engine has to be held back to protect the AWD. How much can you do before you break the AWD?

F23A4

Valid points. The SH-AWD component (as you detailed) was a consideration of mine when selecting my A-Spec with the intent of tuning it, and was the main reason why I went with the FWD version. I’m very interested to see how this all develops.

Edward'TLS

To get to 400+hp, Honda needs to use 2 turbochargers, instead of the single one right now on the turbo-3LV6.

fiatlux

That'd be cool if that were actually the case for the TLX Type S, but it isn't. It's already been discussed ad nauseum about how the TLX Type S does not set good lap times. It would be forgiveable if it could hold its own at the track, but the numbers show that it can't do that either, something even the staunchest defenders have conceded about it.

richii0207

Where did it not get good lap times? Initially, we only had a lap time from one track, VIR which it timed better than the G70 and nearly the same as the IS500. Now we have times from One Lap of America with times/points from several tracks. It came out ahead of the CT4V BW and the MK8 Golf R. There’s other cars it make out ahead of as well that are much more powerful. Here’s a link.

https://www.onelapofamerica.com/even...ING&eventId=42

The Lightning Lap results seemed to being a lot of talk in this forum and even had its own thread, which you said yourself. Now that we have results over several tracks, there has not been any talk at anll about it like we had with Lightning Lap. I wonder why?

fiatlux

Maybe because as a race series, the quality of the drivers matters? You seem to assume the results are purely a function of the cars themselves, which would imply all the drivers are equal. The fact that there’s such a large discrepancy between two Golf R teams suggests that no, the drivers aren’t all equal. Yes it’s a counter-factual, but it would not be a stretch to imagine that swapping the CT4-V BW drivers with the Type S drivers would result in a remarkably different result given the enormous performance difference between those two cars. Or are you going to double down and claim the CT4-V BW is legitimately slower around the track than the Type S and barely faster than a Golf R?

Multiple other sources (Motortrend, C&D, etc) have criticized the on track performance at the limit. That’s a more diverse sample set IMO. Perhaps the reason nobody talks about the OneLapWhatever results is because it’s meaningless with the driver variable. Might as well base a Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge vs Toyota discussion on the results of a NASCAR race.

richii0207

fiatlux

To my previous point of driver quality, one of the TLX driver is a professional racing driver. The drivers in the CT4-V BW are amateurs; one if a "Subjective Test Driver" for Michelin and the other is an engineer manager at GM. Sure they're probably decent drivers, but a pro driver is going to take them to school all day.

If you want further proof of just how questionable it is to use this race series to determine how cars stack up agianst one another, look at past years. From 2021 I am to believe that a 2011 M3 is 3 minutes faster than a 2016 M3, and a Toyota Camry is faster than a Focus RS and STI? From 2019 I'm to believe a Toyota Camry is faster than a STI, CTR, and Chevy SS? Wow, the Camry must be a total track day champion.

richii0207

Unm, the Camry wasn’t in stock class. It was modified…
You’re really comparing cars from various classes? You’re comparing apples to oranges.

fiatlux

You should get your glasses checked. For 2019 it clearly says Stock Touring class. https://www.onelapofamerica.com/even...ING&eventId=39. For 2021 I don't know what happened; it's not showing up in the Stock Touring even though it's the same team and presumably the same car.

fiatlux

Regardless, the point still stands. If you look at the Stock GT results from 2022, would you have concluded that the GR86 is barely slower than a 911 GT3RS and Camaro ZL1, and is faster than a Ferrari 812 and Mustang GT? Of course not, which goes to show that these results are largely meaningless because driver skill is such a huge variable.

richii0207

You’re right about the car showing stock, that’s a first! It wasn’t stock though which is odd that it was listed as.

h0ckeyman

Can't wait to see how the full tunes turn out for this car. That being said - it sounds like the stock tune and also some of the actual engine components are designed for low end power. I don't know if we'll see the high peak HP numbers some are hoping for with just bolt ons and tunes. Also, since the components and turbo itself all make power very low in the RPM range, I hope that bottom end is stout. Low end torque is what usually bends rods. Past tuner cars I've had have all tried to push peak torque up the RPM range and early tune adopters blew engines because people didnt realize this. Lastly, direct injected motors usually unlock serious power via tune, so again, hoping that is favorable for us.

Legend2TL

1) IIRC Acura never made any statement implying that whatsoever about limiting torque in lower gears to enhance reliability.
2) And no it's not a easy coding change if one does not have the source code and build environment. Only binaries and symbol tables is still not easy to make reliable changes.
3) IIRC Acura did not make the intake ports small, however Honda/Acura did put a restriction in the exhaust port to generate high velocity gas flow into the turbo turbine. They did according to this Acura video use a twin scroll turbo to promote faster spool up response.

leomio2.0

Any rumors about what’s going on with KTuners tune for the Type-S? Still nothing on their forum.

BadMoonRyzen

I sent them an email about a week ago. They said no set date, to keep checking their social media. I used their V2 along with Stage 2 tune (and phearable State 3 tune) on my previous 2018 Accord Touring 2.0T and both tunes were rock solid with no issues of any kind, ever.

richii0207

https://www.imwtuned.com/store/p29/tlxtypes.html

BadMoonRyzen

Did this at first say it just came out today? I checked out the link and it looks like they want some beta testers. It must be close to being released!